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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93752 > unrolled thread

Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?

Started byMartin Davies-Roundhill <enduphere.xyz@gmail.com>
First post2026-10-15 14:52 +0000
Last post2026-10-24 10:31 +0100
Articles 11 on this page of 111 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Martin Davies-Roundhill <enduphere.xyz@gmail.com> - 2026-10-15 14:52 +0000
    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-15 07:57 -0700
      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:33 +0100
        Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:40 +0000
    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-15 17:01 +0200
    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-10-15 17:29 +0000
    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:27 +0100
      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-15 18:47 +0000
        Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:40 +0000
          Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-15 23:35 +0200
            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 01:41 +0000
              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:47 +0100
                Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:40 +0000
                  Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 23:17 +0100
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 02:53 +0000
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:46 +0100
            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 07:58 -0700
              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 15:59 +0000
              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 18:46 +0200
                Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:32 +0100
                  Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 19:41 +0200
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:26 +0000
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 22:40 +0200
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 23:11 +0100
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:06 +0000
                        Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:46 +0100
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 12:24 +0200
                        Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:31 +0100
              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 18:46 +0200
                Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:35 +0100
                  Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 19:43 +0200
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:34 +0000
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 22:47 +0200
                        Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 02:40 +0000
                          Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 12:33 +0200
                            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 12:04 +0100
                              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 13:40 +0200
                            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 11:56 +0000
                              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 13:59 +0200
                                Programming Books (was Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?) John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0200
                                  Re: Programming Books (was Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 18:26 +0000
          Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:45 +0100
            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:56 +0200
              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:38 +0100
            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:19 +0000
              Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 17:09 +0100
                Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:21 +0000
                Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-10-23 19:34 +0000
                  Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-23 20:28 +0000
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-23 22:44 +0000
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 03:18 -0400
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-24 13:44 +0200
                        Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-24 13:09 +0100
                          Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-24 14:45 +0200
                            Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-24 14:02 +0100
                              [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-24 21:23 +0200
                                Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 01:16 -0400
                                  Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-26 11:33 +0100
                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-26 11:08 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-26 13:28 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-26 13:07 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 09:08 -0400
                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-26 13:59 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-26 22:28 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-26 21:39 +0000
                                                Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-26 23:03 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 00:44 -0400
                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 09:05 -0400
                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-26 22:47 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-10-27 06:34 -0700
                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-27 14:37 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-27 18:38 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-28 13:05 +0100
                                            Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 10:07 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-28 18:06 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:57 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:49 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:21 -0400
                                                  Re: [OT] Gas inspections Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-29 02:51 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:48 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 00:38 -0400
                                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:04 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:01 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:01 +0100
                                                  Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:45 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:41 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:11 -0400
                                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:21 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:45 +0000
                                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-10-31 14:25 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-10-27 06:19 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 10:11 -0400
                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-10-28 06:32 -0700
                                            Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 10:32 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-28 18:10 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:32 -0400
                                                  Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:49 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:23 -0400
                                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:26 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:45 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Gas inspections Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-11-05 16:18 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:32 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Gas inspections The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:22 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Gas inspections "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:40 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Gas inspections Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:59 +0000
                      Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-10-24 11:52 -0700
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:35 +0100
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-10-24 11:40 -0700
                    Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-11-05 15:55 +0000
                  Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:31 +0100

Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]


#94834 — Re: [OT] Gas inspections

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-31 10:45 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Gas inspections
Message-ID<11c4gso$10k2m$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94828
On 31/10/2026 10:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Take fridges. A second fast start fails because needs too much current 
> and the motor overheats. Solution: put a current activated switch that 
> delays the second power up of the compressor for a minute, which is 
> cheaper than install a startup bypass valve.
> 
> This is a feature of all fridges and common AC compressors the world 
> around.

Never seen it on an UK fridge


-- 
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper 
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating 
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its 
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of 
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must 
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

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#95163 — Re: [OT] Gas inspections

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-11-05 16:18 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Gas inspections
Message-ID<11cia94$1o6h8$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94766
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 10/28/26 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2026-10-28 15:32, c186282 wrote:
>>> On 10/28/26 09:32, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> On 10/27/2026 07:11, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> On 10/27/26 09:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2026 06:05, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> The 14kW is a pretty good match for the 100A utility service.
>>>
>>> Fair match. I'd have to buy 25kw minimum.
>>>
>>> Note if you have central A/C you have to figure in the startup 
>>> SURGE requirement. That can easily be double the running power, 
>>> if only for a couple of seconds.
>>>
>>> Fail to meet that need and you'll pop yer    generator breaker 
>>> and/or burn up your A/C    compressor.
>> 
>> An AC with inverter can solve that problem with a slow controlled startup.
> 
>   Ummmm ...  not always.  Sometimes the motors DO need a good "kick" 
>   to get 'em going.  Anything attached to some kind of 'compressor' - 
>   a moderate/large resistance load - tends to be a bad case.

Nope.  The "inverter compressors" appear to be variable frequency 
drive.  So they can start up slow without the typical current burst of 
a standard "full on" bang-bang controller.

>   I am familiar with electronic 'soft starters' and they're good for 
>   many apps - but not ALL.

Not the same thing that Carlos is discussing.

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#95170 — Re: [OT] Gas inspections

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-11-05 20:32 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Gas inspections
Message-ID<nl43ttFaf1cU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#95163
On 2026-11-05 17:18, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 10/28/26 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-10-28 15:32, c186282 wrote:
>>>> On 10/28/26 09:32, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>> On 10/27/2026 07:11, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/27/26 09:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/26/2026 06:05, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The 14kW is a pretty good match for the 100A utility service.
>>>>
>>>> Fair match. I'd have to buy 25kw minimum.
>>>>
>>>> Note if you have central A/C you have to figure in the startup
>>>> SURGE requirement. That can easily be double the running power,
>>>> if only for a couple of seconds.
>>>>
>>>> Fail to meet that need and you'll pop yer    generator breaker
>>>> and/or burn up your A/C    compressor.
>>>
>>> An AC with inverter can solve that problem with a slow controlled startup.
>>
>>    Ummmm ...  not always.  Sometimes the motors DO need a good "kick"
>>    to get 'em going.  Anything attached to some kind of 'compressor' -
>>    a moderate/large resistance load - tends to be a bad case.
> 
> Nope.  The "inverter compressors" appear to be variable frequency
> drive.  So they can start up slow without the typical current burst of
> a standard "full on" bang-bang controller.

Good point, I forgot about that.

> 
>>    I am familiar with electronic 'soft starters' and they're good for
>>    many apps - but not ALL.
> 
> Not the same thing that Carlos is discussing.
> 


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#95186 — Re: [OT] Gas inspections

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-05 21:22 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Gas inspections
Message-ID<11cis31$1votj$11@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95170
On 05/11/2026 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-11-05 17:18, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/28/26 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-10-28 15:32, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> On 10/28/26 09:32, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/27/2026 07:11, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/27/26 09:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2026 06:05, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> The 14kW is a pretty good match for the 100A utility service.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fair match. I'd have to buy 25kw minimum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note if you have central A/C you have to figure in the startup
>>>>> SURGE requirement. That can easily be double the running power,
>>>>> if only for a couple of seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fail to meet that need and you'll pop yer    generator breaker
>>>>> and/or burn up your A/C    compressor.
>>>>
>>>> An AC with inverter can solve that problem with a slow controlled 
>>>> startup.
>>>
>>>    Ummmm ...  not always.  Sometimes the motors DO need a good "kick"
>>>    to get 'em going.  Anything attached to some kind of 'compressor' -
>>>    a moderate/large resistance load - tends to be a bad case.
>>
>> Nope.  The "inverter compressors" appear to be variable frequency
>> drive.  So they can start up slow without the typical current burst of
>> a standard "full on" bang-bang controller.
> 
> Good point, I forgot about that.

Yes, brushless DC motors powered by custom speed controllers are 
becoming cheaper than a commutated motor or an induction motor will 
smarts to stop it blowing the grid on startup


> 
>>
>>>    I am familiar with electronic 'soft starters' and they're good for
>>>    many apps - but not ALL.
>>
>> Not the same thing that Carlos is discussing.
>>
> 
> 

-- 
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a 
kind word alone.

Al Capone


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#95189 — Re: [OT] Gas inspections

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-11-05 22:40 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Gas inspections
Message-ID<nl4bf2Faf1bU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#95186
On 2026-11-05 22:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/11/2026 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-11-05 17:18, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10/28/26 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-10-28 15:32, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/28/26 09:32, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/27/2026 07:11, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/27/26 09:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2026 06:05, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 14kW is a pretty good match for the 100A utility service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fair match. I'd have to buy 25kw minimum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note if you have central A/C you have to figure in the startup
>>>>>> SURGE requirement. That can easily be double the running power,
>>>>>> if only for a couple of seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fail to meet that need and you'll pop yer    generator breaker
>>>>>> and/or burn up your A/C    compressor.
>>>>>
>>>>> An AC with inverter can solve that problem with a slow controlled 
>>>>> startup.
>>>>
>>>>    Ummmm ...  not always.  Sometimes the motors DO need a good "kick"
>>>>    to get 'em going.  Anything attached to some kind of 'compressor' -
>>>>    a moderate/large resistance load - tends to be a bad case.
>>>
>>> Nope.  The "inverter compressors" appear to be variable frequency
>>> drive.  So they can start up slow without the typical current burst of
>>> a standard "full on" bang-bang controller.
>>
>> Good point, I forgot about that.
> 
> Yes, brushless DC motors powered by custom speed controllers are 
> becoming cheaper than a commutated motor or an induction motor will 
> smarts to stop it blowing the grid on startup

I thought they were using induction motors, driven by an inverter which 
controls the frequency and the voltage. Generating three-phase AC 
current and using three-phase motors.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#95204 — Re: [OT] Gas inspections

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-11-05 22:59 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Gas inspections
Message-ID<11cj1oj$22805$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95189
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-11-05 22:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/11/2026 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-11-05 17:18, Rich wrote:
>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/28/26 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>> On 2026-10-28 15:32, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/28/26 09:32, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/27/2026 07:11, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/27/26 09:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2026 06:05, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 14kW is a pretty good match for the 100A utility service.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fair match. I'd have to buy 25kw minimum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note if you have central A/C you have to figure in the startup
>>>>>>> SURGE requirement. That can easily be double the running power,
>>>>>>> if only for a couple of seconds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fail to meet that need and you'll pop yer generator breaker 
>>>>>>> and/or burn up your A/C compressor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An AC with inverter can solve that problem with a slow controlled 
>>>>>> startup.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ummmm ...  not always.  Sometimes the motors DO need a good 
>>>>> "kick" to get 'em going.  Anything attached to some kind of 
>>>>> 'compressor' - a moderate/large resistance load - tends to be a 
>>>>> bad case.
>>>>
>>>> Nope.  The "inverter compressors" appear to be variable frequency
>>>> drive.  So they can start up slow without the typical current burst of
>>>> a standard "full on" bang-bang controller.
>>>
>>> Good point, I forgot about that.
>> 
>> Yes, brushless DC motors powered by custom speed controllers are 
>> becoming cheaper than a commutated motor or an induction motor will 
>> smarts to stop it blowing the grid on startup
> 
> I thought they were using induction motors, driven by an inverter which 
> controls the frequency and the voltage. Generating three-phase AC 
> current and using three-phase motors.

Three-phase AC motors are three-phase because the phases provide the 
"rotating magnetic field" to produce rotational motion on the armature.  
So the motor can just be windings and on-off switches.

But if you drive the coils of a DC motor with a proper controller that 
"sequences" the coils properly so you get the 'rotating magnetic 
field', you can get any speed you desire, and extreme torque even at 
startup.  Same style of motors that are used on electric cars now.

Also the same style motor driver in all the little 80mm CPU fans 
sitting inside all our computers for cooling purposes.

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#94660

FromLars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com>
Date2026-10-24 11:52 -0700
Message-ID<11biupv$2vp9l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94637
On 10/24/2026 00:18, c186282 wrote:
>    ELECTRIC is VERY reliable (USA) - gas shit,
>    well, weekly news about huge explosions or
>    fires.
Not here in California. Wildfires - or even the threat of wildfires - 
can and will shut down transmission lines, and car accidents can knock 
out utility poles. Thunderstorms - and short-circuits caused by traffic 
accidents knocking out poles - cause transformers to explode. And many 
of the poles here in town are very old and are getting replaced, one at 
a time (requiring multiple 12-hour shut-offs in local neighborhoods).

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#94646

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-24 10:35 +0100
Message-ID<11bhu49$2ipmp$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94629
On 23/10/2026 21:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-10-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> The one item left that isn't yet dependent upon electric supply is gas
>> (methane/propane) tank hot water heaters.  Those still seem to be built
>> as a mechanical thermostat driving a mechanical fuel valve to turn the
>> burner on and off.  Of course, to make hot water they do need a fuel
>> supply, and if that fuel is piped in from a distribution system instead
>> of a tank, there's a dependency on the distribution system working.
> 
> True - but in my experience electrical failures happen far more
> frequently than gas failures.
> 
dont have gas. electriciry hv runs through trees. always on the fritz

> BTW gas stoves (at least basic cooktops) also run without electricity
> (although you might have to dig up some matches if you depend on a
> mains-driven spark to light it).  This is quite handy during power
> failures, since it means you can still heat something to eat - and
> even get a bit of room heating on cold days.
> 
> Too bad the Powers that Be are trying to eliminate gas appliances.
> I guess we need to save all that gas for LNG sales overseas.
> 
nobody plans ahead.
profit today:fuck tomorrow

-- 
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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#94659

FromLars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com>
Date2026-10-24 11:40 -0700
Message-ID<11biu2h$2vg55$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94629
On 10/23/2026 13:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-10-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> The one item left that isn't yet dependent upon electric supply is gas
>> (methane/propane) tank hot water heaters.  Those still seem to be built
>> as a mechanical thermostat driving a mechanical fuel valve to turn the
>> burner on and off.  Of course, to make hot water they do need a fuel
>> supply, and if that fuel is piped in from a distribution system instead
>> of a tank, there's a dependency on the distribution system working.
> 
> True - but in my experience electrical failures happen far more
> frequently than gas failures.
> 
> BTW gas stoves (at least basic cooktops) also run without electricity
> (although you might have to dig up some matches if you depend on a
> mains-driven spark to light it).  This is quite handy during power
> failures, since it means you can still heat something to eat - and
> even get a bit of room heating on cold days.
> 
> Too bad the Powers that Be are trying to eliminate gas appliances.
> I guess we need to save all that gas for LNG sales overseas.

Doesn't Natural Gas[TM] i.e. municipal methane piped in to reidences - 
require electric pumps somewhere in the distribution network?

At my house a have 14kW NaturalGas-powered generator for when the power 
drops out. If the failure is due to an earthquake, I expect that the gas 
will also be shut off. At which point I will be looking for propane 
tanks, and the conversion kit to change the motor from methane to 
propane (a different pressure regulator ?) I cannot do that ahead of 
time, because I do not have a code-compliant way to maintain or store 
the propane tanks.


Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#95162

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-11-05 15:55 +0000
Message-ID<11ci8sm$1o6h8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94629
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-10-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> The one item left that isn't yet dependent upon electric supply is 
>> gas (methane/propane) tank hot water heaters.  Those still seem to 
>> be built as a mechanical thermostat driving a mechanical fuel valve 
>> to turn the burner on and off.  Of course, to make hot water they do 
>> need a fuel supply, and if that fuel is piped in from a distribution 
>> system instead of a tank, there's a dependency on the distribution 
>> system working.
> 
> True - but in my experience electrical failures happen far more 
> frequently than gas failures.

Same.  I cannot recall any instance of a gas distribution failure.  
Electricity, however, those outages recur with regularity.  Although my 
specific area has become more reliable over time such that I now see a 
full on outage maybe every year or two instead of every time a 
thunderstom rolls through in August.

> BTW gas stoves (at least basic cooktops) also run without electricity 
> (although you might have to dig up some matches if you depend on a 
> mains-driven spark to light it).  This is quite handy during power 
> failures, since it means you can still heat something to eat - and 
> even get a bit of room heating on cold days.

Yep.  Just need those matches for ignition source.

> Too bad the Powers that Be are trying to eliminate gas appliances.  I 
> guess we need to save all that gas for LNG sales overseas.

They claim it is "climate related" in that doing so reduces pollution 
output.  Hard to tell, without auditing their donations carefully, 
where the real source of their desire to ban them is arriving from.

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#94645

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-24 10:31 +0100
Message-ID<11bhtu1$2ipmp$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94627
On 23/10/2026 20:34, Rich wrote:
> But let something (could even be a weather event) interfear
freudian slip?
-- 
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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