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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 589 — 39 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-10-19 17:18 -0300
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Helmut Waitzmann <nn.throttle@erine.email> - 2026-10-21 00:54 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-23 18:50 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 23:59 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 11:53 +0200
Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-24 12:10 +0000
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
[OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:49 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-31 13:11 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:53 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 22:41 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:31 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-11-01 20:50 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:18 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) FF <fflud@linux.rocks> - 2026-11-01 18:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:32 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:26 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 02:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:22 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:36 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:29 +0000
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-01 01:08 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:03 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-11-01 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:27 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:57 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:07 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:32 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:35 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:22 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 03:02 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:50 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:18 -0500
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:49 -0800
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-11-02 17:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:25 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:42 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ifRES.91546$Gau3.37669@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> >> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. > > I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? > I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect > opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their > punch card days. > > And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than > engineering. > >> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals >> earlier. > > That's one data point, thanks. I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. There was a number of hard-copy terminals, many of them dialup: IBM 2741, Teletype 33, 35, and even a few 37s. But billing (in computer centre funny money, issued to students at the start of a term) was given a fudge factor of 1.4 for terminal access. Most of us contented ourselves with either using the RJE terminal (originally staffed with an operator who collected a ticket for each run, later self-serve IIRC), or dropping our cards into a tray and coming back the next day to pick up the results (which incurred only a 0.4 fudge factor, which was great for conserving CC$ that were running low by the end of the term). -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkil10FinrcU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94790 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they > converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I > wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where there was a lot more happening. My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her programming course was in some language that I don't think survived either.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c1tv5$5sgi$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote: > her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. Probably ALGOL. That was all the rage back then -- Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkk3qbFinrcU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94806 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 11:10:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote: >> her programming course was in some language that I don't think survived >> either. > > Probably ALGOL. > > That was all the rage back then I think it was something even stranger, maybe SNOBOL. I'll see if she remembers the next time I talk to her. She may have repressed the entire experience. I wouldn't say SUNY was a diploma mill but it had over 10,000 students even back then and was industrial scale education.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e9k3o.n12.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 2026-10-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they >> converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I >> wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. > > The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The > 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the > later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of > the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where > there was a lot more happening. > > My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. > I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. Speaking of space limitations in the 360 architecture: Early in my career, 1985 IIRC, I was charged with running full-chip switch-mode logic similation of the first 960 processor and got to use an EDAC machine all by myself. Normal IBM machines at the time were limited to a 24-bit address space for a given virtual machine under VM/CMS. IBM had built a very small handful of machines that supported a larger address space. IBM owed Intel some money at that time. To pay that debt, IBM loaned Intel an EDAC machine. It was used for full-chip switch-mode logic simulation of the 386. Immediately after the 386 taped out and was finished with the machine, I was tasked with running the full-chip logic similation for the 960 chip. Largely due to several rounds of microcode bug fixes, our tapeout slipped beyond the date IBM had agreed to loan Intel the machine. For the remaining time we needed to use it, I was told the rent was $150k/month. I was the only user. That rent was well over an order of magnitude larger than my salary. No pressure... -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ga6FS.16032$WY1.4425@fx06.iad> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 2026-10-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they >> converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I >> wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. > > The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The > 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the > later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of > the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where > there was a lot more happening. This machine didn't run an IBM operating system; it ran MTS, the Michigan Terminal System. It was far better at timesharing than any IBM operating system. > My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. > I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. One course when I was there hit you with a different language every two weeks: Algol 60, Algol 68, Algol W, pl360 (the misbegotten bastard child of Algol and assembly language), LISP, UMIST, SNOBOL4... Fortunately I dropped out before I had to take that one. I did a term project in assembly language - my prof kept getting a pained expression as he repeatedly asked me why I would do such a thing. I left for a programming job in the Real World, writing assembly language and RPG for a card-based system with 16K of memory. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <18e361f191ae2cbb$1317$3179723$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 21:40:04 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> There were only PCs when I was there, but my school also had access to time sharing with the mainframes of the Michigan Terminal System, or MTS: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Terminal_System> On an early morning (about 2 am) job run, I literally brought the mainframe to its knees while simultaneously burning up the entire annual department time-sharing budget, via an extensive numerical simulation involving 500x500 matrix calculations. From that experience I learned a valuable computer science lesson that is not found in the standard textbooks: the most powerful digital computers are DAMNED SLOW AND IMPOTENT. I ended up doing the simulation on a desktop PC using almost 4 WEEKS of runtime. My current desktop is probably a lot more powerful than those mainframes but most tasks of interest are still largely untouchable.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ha6FS.16033$WY1.2182@fx06.iad> |
| In reply to | #94811 |
On 2026-10-30, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote: > On an early morning (about 2 am) job run, I literally brought the > mainframe to its knees while simultaneously burning up the entire > annual department time-sharing budget, via an extensive numerical > simulation involving 500x500 matrix calculations. > > From that experience I learned a valuable computer science lesson > that is not found in the standard textbooks: the most powerful > digital computers are DAMNED SLOW AND IMPOTENT. I wouldn't call that a computer science lesson; many CS weenies assume that computers are infinitely powerful, and start whining when confronted with systems in the real world. I had a confrontation with a guy like that when trying to determine why a COBOL program was running like molasses through a pinhole in January. One reason was that this genius had declared all subscripts as COMP-3 (packed decimal) rather than binary. Just changing those declarations alone knocked 30% off the execution time. I wish I could have had more time to work on that program; I bet I could have really sped it up. I calculated that the nested PERFORM VARYING loop that cleared a 3-dimensional array would have taken 25 minutes of the estimated 50-hour run time, due to a combination of those decimal subscripts and subroutine calling overhead. (The CPU did about 130 KIPS.) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <18e367c1df8453cf$117$2902356$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94814 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 19:25:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >> From that experience I learned a valuable computer science lesson >> that is not found in the standard textbooks: the most powerful >> digital computers are DAMNED SLOW AND IMPOTENT. > > I wouldn't call that a computer science lesson; many CS weenies > assume that computers are infinitely powerful, and start whining when > confronted with systems in the real world. I had a confrontation > with a guy like that when trying to determine why a COBOL program > was running like molasses through a pinhole in January. One reason > was that this genius had declared all subscripts as COMP-3 (packed > decimal) rather than binary. Just changing those declarations alone > knocked 30% off the execution time. I wish I could have had more > time to work on that program; I bet I could have really sped it up. > I calculated that the nested PERFORM VARYING loop that cleared a > 3-dimensional array would have taken 25 minutes of the estimated > 50-hour run time, due to a combination of those decimal subscripts > and subroutine calling overhead. (The CPU did about 130 KIPS.) > Optimization can only go so far. That's why supercomputers are being continually developed. But yes, software optimization is quite important and very much can be said about it, but most users will not ever need to be aware. Modern hardware can handle most routine computing tasks very efficiently. It is only fringe activities, such as video encoding or scientific calculations, that require massive hardware power. One hardware problem that needs to be fixed above all else is memory speed. Currently, all RAM is just another storage layer. The CPU does not directly process RAM data, but only data that has been transferred from RAM to cache memory -- and only first order cache at that. This ridiculous situation can seriously degrade performance if the programmer is not continually vigilant. I would claim that this "cache problem" is the most critical of all. The company that could produce cheap RAM memory on par with cache speeds would make $trillions overnight.
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| From | jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <87tsm1aoxo.fsf@atr2.ath.cx> |
| In reply to | #94811 |
Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> writes:
> There were only PCs when I was there, but my school also had access
> to time sharing with the mainframes of the Michigan Terminal System,
> or MTS:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Terminal_System>
You can run this under SDL Hercules. I have a D6 system. Unfortunately,
there's not much installed in the way of software, it doesn't have any
languages I really know, and it couldn't do networking last I checked
(the SDL Hercules project w/MTS - the real machine could or so I
heard). Still, it's fun and gives me a reason to dust off the x3270.
https://try-mts.com/why-try-mts/
https://sdl-hercules-390.github.io/html/
It has this thing where, after a day or two, it wants to dump its stats
to "tape" and you have to do a dance with it, only it does not want to
take its tape, like a kid does not want to eat lima beans.
00049 MTS *DWB: MOUNT NEW CMDSTAT TAPE RING IN WITH RACK M002 FOR INITIALIZAT
This is what it looks like if/when you win:
00049 MTS SYS.: F (1 9TP) M002 on 9TP, ring IN, 'CMDSTAT' ********************
OK M002 T90A
The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more software.
> My current desktop is probably a lot more powerful than those
> mainframes but most tasks of interest are still largely untouchable.
Absolutely. A smartphone is.
--
PGP Key ID: 781C A3E2 C6ED 70A6 B356 7AF5 B510 542E D460 5CAE
"The Internet should always be the Wild West!"
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c5n4b$1f300$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94849 |
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: > The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more > software. If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <K2idnW7KxZMmm3r3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94867 |
On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: > >> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more >> software. > > If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of > (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is > IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. > > Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection. The DEC boxes were GREAT ! Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it. Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient modern features - could do international internet before there WAS an internet.
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c73he$1s1nv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94879 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb: > On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: >> >>> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more >>> software. >> >> If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of >> (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is >> IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. >> >> Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection. > > The DEC boxes were GREAT ! > > Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely > idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it. Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible for both). If you are interested, you could look up "DEC is Dead, Long Live DEC", an excellent book. > Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a > fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient > modern features - could do international internet > before there WAS an internet. Somebody is trying to do so (see https://vmssoftware.com/) but that particular train has left the station a long time ago. -- This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence, artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity, artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c8319$2845p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94882 |
On Sun, 1 Nov 2026 10:16:14 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: > Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible > for both). If you talk to the staff who worked under him, you won’t find anybody with a bad word to say about him. He looked after his people well. But, he was very much a Unix-hater, describing it as “snake oil” at one point. After he was ousted, the asset-strippers took charge.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <20261102093506.00007a34@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #94897 |
On Sun, 1 Nov 2026 19:13:45 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible > > for both). > > If you talk to the staff who worked under him, you won’t find anybody > with a bad word to say about him. He looked after his people well. > > But, he was very much a Unix-hater, describing it as “snake oil” at > one point. > > After he was ousted, the asset-strippers took charge. Yeah, the impression I've gotten is that Olsen was less the kind of Bad Management that drove e.g. Commodore into the ground and more just the type who made a couple critical misjudgements about where the industry was headed that ultimately doomed them. He was also uninterested in the microcomputer market, as most of the Big Players were at the time, but DEC was even later to that than IBM, lacked the cachet with non-techie Management that they had. And on top of that, the Rainbow was a dud: more expensive than the IBM PC for similar specs with only somewhat more flexible graphics and CP/M compatibility as its advantages. The Professional at least offered one of DEC's own architecture, but it was over *twice* the price of the PC.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nksa1cF2rmsU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94946 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 09:35:06 -0800, John Ames wrote: > And on top of that, the Rainbow was a dud: more expensive than the IBM > PC for similar specs with only somewhat more flexible graphics and CP/M > compatibility as its advantages. The Professional at least offered one > of DEC's own architecture, but it was over *twice* the price of the PC. It wasn't fatal but IBM's RS/6000 had the same problem. The Y2K patches were only for newer systems. Our clients looked at the cost of replacing their existing machines and switched to PCs. Windows 2000 Server came at just the right time.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <20261102135002.00005bcb@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #94953 |
On 2 Nov 2026 20:27:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > > And on top of that, the Rainbow was a dud: more expensive than the > > IBM PC for similar specs with only somewhat more flexible graphics > > and CP/M compatibility as its advantages. The Professional at least > > offered one of DEC's own architecture, but it was over *twice* the > > price of the PC. > > It wasn't fatal but IBM's RS/6000 had the same problem. The Y2K > patches were only for newer systems. Our clients looked at the cost > of replacing their existing machines and switched to PCs. Windows > 2000 Server came at just the right time. The whole "workstation" class was vulnerable to this; the assumption that business customers with a need for personal computers would pay kilobucks to get the Best Of The Best got shakier and shakier as the vendors' technical/performance lead was eroded by Intel's dogged per- sistence and Apple's piggybacking off IBM & Motorola's own R&D efforts and the commerical Unix vendors tried with decidedly mixed success to follow changing preferences in UI design, 'til it finally completely imploded sometime in the mid-'00s. (In particular, only NeXT and SGI showed any understanding of what separates a technically-functional GUI environment from a genuinely *nice* one, whereas MacOS had one from the get-go and MS had more-or- less gotten the wrinkles ironed out by Win95; unless their employees truly needed bleeding-edge performance or one of the increasingly rare *nix-only software suites for line-of-business purposes, why on Earth would a company drop $$$ for Tru64/AIX/Solaris/HP-UX with CDE on top when they could get the job done with a PC or Mac for $$ and get a less grody user experience into the bargain?)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ypmdndD4s-uIoXT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94954 |
On 11/2/26 16:50, John Ames wrote: > On 2 Nov 2026 20:27:24 GMT > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >>> And on top of that, the Rainbow was a dud: more expensive than the >>> IBM PC for similar specs with only somewhat more flexible graphics >>> and CP/M compatibility as its advantages. The Professional at least >>> offered one of DEC's own architecture, but it was over *twice* the >>> price of the PC. >> >> It wasn't fatal but IBM's RS/6000 had the same problem. The Y2K >> patches were only for newer systems. Our clients looked at the cost >> of replacing their existing machines and switched to PCs. Windows >> 2000 Server came at just the right time. > > The whole "workstation" class was vulnerable to this; the assumption > that business customers with a need for personal computers would pay > kilobucks to get the Best Of The Best got shakier and shakier as the > vendors' technical/performance lead was eroded by Intel's dogged per- > sistence and Apple's piggybacking off IBM & Motorola's own R&D efforts > and the commerical Unix vendors tried with decidedly mixed success to > follow changing preferences in UI design, 'til it finally completely > imploded sometime in the mid-'00s. Sometimes attributed to Stalin - "Quantity has a quality all of its own". If you can buy a bunch of 'regular PCs' for the price of one, or even just upgrading one, flagship box from DEC or IBM or whomever ..... > (In particular, only NeXT and SGI showed any understanding of what > separates a technically-functional GUI environment from a genuinely > *nice* one, whereas MacOS had one from the get-go and MS had more-or- > less gotten the wrinkles ironed out by Win95; unless their employees > truly needed bleeding-edge performance or one of the increasingly rare > *nix-only software suites for line-of-business purposes, why on Earth > would a company drop $$$ for Tru64/AIX/Solaris/HP-UX with CDE on top > when they could get the job done with a PC or Mac for $$ and get a less > grody user experience into the bargain?) Small/medium "business" usually doesn't NEED expensive "cutting edge" boxes. They need usable boxes for all the staff, few perks, little flair, just a step above a terminal. Now with Linux, your 'regular' box can PERFORM like an expensive server ..... Liked ASUS boards with decent i5's ... made great and reliable servers. I/O, well, didn't matter HOW fast the box was, it was only gonna push just SO much over the wires. That, not CPU, was the main limiting issue. An i9 wasn't gonna deliver files ANY faster. Only ONE guy had a box with an extra good video card - mostly because he did our GIS stuff.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <FSbGS.128745$Gau3.91431@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #94968 |
On 2026-11-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Small/medium "business" usually doesn't NEED expensive > "cutting edge" boxes. They need usable boxes for all > the staff, few perks, little flair, just a step above > a terminal. I always loved the way people expressed this as "bleeding edge". > Only ONE guy had a box with an extra good video > card - mostly because he did our GIS stuff. When a PPOE got their first personal computers (XT clones at $5K a pop) they ordered CGA for all of them. Once they realized what a dog CGA was performance-wise (a good typist could keep a word ahead of what a word processor was displaying on the screen), they reverted to Hercules cards - except for the one machine in engineering that really needed the graphics capability. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <m4hGS.16006$mbb2.2991@fx03.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94954 |
On 11/3/2026 5:50 AM, John Ames wrote: > The whole "workstation" class was vulnerable to this; the assumption > that business customers with a need for personal computers would pay > kilobucks to get the Best Of The Best got shakier and shakier as the > vendors' technical/performance lead was eroded by Intel's dogged per- > sistence and Apple's piggybacking off IBM & Motorola's own R&D efforts > and the commerical Unix vendors tried with decidedly mixed success to > follow changing preferences in UI design, 'til it finally completely > imploded sometime in the mid-'00s. Nowadays, nobody cares about /usability/ nor /learnability/. All the hard work that culminated in the 90s knowledge of how user interfaces should be designed is now gone. But it's /new & shiny/ with fancy graphics? No, not since they started to make everything /flat/. Now the competition seems to be who can make the flatter and boring user interface, with more and more hidden feat- ures, because who wants to do useful things in a computer, or a website, or a phone? Thank you for coming to my alt.folklore.computers rant! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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