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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 578 — 39 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-10-19 17:18 -0300
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Helmut Waitzmann <nn.throttle@erine.email> - 2026-10-21 00:54 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-23 18:50 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 23:59 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 11:53 +0200
Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-24 12:10 +0000
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
[OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:49 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-31 13:11 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:53 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 22:41 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:31 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-11-01 20:50 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:18 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) FF <fflud@linux.rocks> - 2026-11-01 18:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:32 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:26 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 02:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:22 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:29 +0000
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-01 01:08 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:03 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-11-01 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:27 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:57 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:07 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:32 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:35 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:22 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 03:02 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:50 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:18 -0500
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:49 -0800
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-11-02 17:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:25 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkqj0vFftq4U8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94912 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 02:16:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: > According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times >> >> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history >> suddenly crashes and burns ...... > > Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of > microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's > management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't > either. The Rainbow was interesting. Almost, but not quite, compatible with PCs. The proprietary diskettes at $5 a pop didn't go over well either. Olsen's belief that people didn't need or want a home computer wasn't unique in that era. Ward Christensen of xmodem fame worked for IBM. Famously he sent a memo up the chain of command saying IBM should look into microcomputers. The reply was there was no market for them but if he wanted to screw around with them on his own time feel free. We contracted to supply cable assemblies to DEC in Augusta ME in the '70s. Their QA was quite demanding but we could pass inspection. Then they gave the contract to the Passamaquoddy tribe. I don't know how that turned out.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <URVFS.20180$1WK1.4115@fx14.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94914 |
On 11/2/2026 12:48 PM, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 02:16:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: > >> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times >>> >>> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history >>> suddenly crashes and burns ...... >> >> Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of >> microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's >> management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't >> either. > > The Rainbow was interesting. Almost, but not quite, compatible with PCs. > The proprietary diskettes at $5 a pop didn't go over well either. > > Olsen's belief that people didn't need or want a home computer wasn't > unique in that era. Ward Christensen of xmodem fame worked for IBM. > Famously he sent a memo up the chain of command saying IBM should look > into microcomputers. The reply was there was no market for them but if he > wanted to screw around with them on his own time feel free. > > We contracted to supply cable assemblies to DEC in Augusta ME in the '70s. > Their QA was quite demanding but we could pass inspection. Then they gave > the contract to the Passamaquoddy tribe. I don't know how that turned > out. Nobody can prevent someone else from inventing something that changes the business rules from under you. I'm only theorizing here, but I would not be surprised [1] if DOOM sold a lot of home PCs in the early 90s, then Quake even more. Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the rest was just marketing. The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM shouldn't be underestimated. Side note: there's a marketing book called /Guerilla Marketing/ that touches upon this subject. Best wishes, and happy victories in DOOM! [1] And indeed would be surprised it wasn't a significant factor. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkqpvsFftq4U9@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94916 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant > for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the > rest was just marketing. Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. 2000 was an improvement.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <%Y_FS.30812$Gsmc.9148@fx17.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94918 |
On 11/2/2026 2:47 PM, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > >> Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant >> for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the >> rest was just marketing. > > Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and > business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows > 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 > was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as > a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. > > NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was > carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my > machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. > 2000 was an improvement. That's probably true, but I'll point out that not all /businesses/ are at the enterprise level. Lots and lots of small to medium businesses had DOS, then Windows machines in the 90s. My school had computer labs with Windows 3.1, then '95; the LAN was Novell. I wasn't working at place a large enough to have NT machines in the 90s -- and I guess I never have. But most importantly, none of the businesses I was familiar with in the 90s had a VAX or knew what to do with it. But that was Iceland. You can think of Reykjavik back then as a small town in the sticks. DOOM did not come out on VAX -- even today I'm not sure there's a VAX port. [There probably is.] So whatever DEC was doing right in the 90s, not being part of the video game social phenomenon was not it. Best wishes, and happy VAXen! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nks7oaF2rmsU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94930 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 20:02:01 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > That's probably true, but I'll point out that not all /businesses/ are > at the enterprise level. Lots and lots of small to medium businesses > had DOS, then Windows machines in the 90s. For that matter many small businesses used CP/M. The Z-80 Soft Card came about because of the lack of business software for the Apple II. Slip in the card, run CP/M and you were all set. There was a used book store in Tucson, iirc, that was still using a carefully preserved KayPro in the mid-90s. When I asked him about it his classic reply was 'It does what I need it to do.'
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <Bc3GS.155664$DBw4.42536@fx24.iad> |
| In reply to | #94918 |
On 2026-11-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was > carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my > machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. Some of our NT customers started reporting intermittent crashes. They were caused by a program of mine that used DDEML for inter-program communication. The whole box would die, which we thought was novel for an operating system that was supposed to be unkillable (at least in comparison with 95/98). I never did find a way to make DDEML run reliably, although I did manage to "improve" my program so that it would take down NT immediately rather than intermittently. I think I still have it around somewhere, under the name "NTkiller". Since DDEML proved unusable for interprocess communication, I tried various other methods, from shared memory to WM_COPYDATA messages. Eventually I went to sockets, where I happily am today. (I love being able to test my programs with telnet.) > 2000 was an improvement. IMHO Windows' usability peaked somewhere between 2000 and XP, and has been going downhill ever since. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nks91hF2rmsU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94939 |
On Mon, 02 Nov 2026 16:51:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Since DDEML proved unusable for interprocess communication, I tried > various other methods, from shared memory to WM_COPYDATA messages. > Eventually I went to sockets, where I happily am today. (I love being > able to test my programs with telnet.) We used shared memory and message queues but that was with the NutCracker runtime that provided POSIX capabilities on Windows. At one point I looked at MSMQ but it was heavy compared to POSIX. I've played around with MQTT and it reminds me of the MS version.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 17:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11ehgvq.crh.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #94918 |
On 2026-11-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > >> Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant >> for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the >> rest was just marketing. > > Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and > business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows > 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 > was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as > a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. > > NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was > carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my > machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. > 2000 was an improvement. Ahhh, yes, the days of Windows CE, ME, and NT--along with the rumored effort to merge them into Windows CEMENT, "As hard as a rock and dumb as a brick": https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/2utm7b/windows_cement/ -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:25 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <Yl-dnQspyPV1qnT3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94945 |
On 11/2/26 12:10, Robert Riches wrote: > On 2026-11-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> >>> Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant >>> for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the >>> rest was just marketing. >> >> Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and >> business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows >> 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 >> was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as >> a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. >> >> NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was >> carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my >> machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. >> 2000 was an improvement. > > Ahhh, yes, the days of Windows CE, ME, and NT--along with the > rumored effort to merge them into Windows CEMENT, "As hard as a > rock and dumb as a brick": > > https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/2utm7b/windows_cement/ Mostly true alas :-) Did kinda like Win2k - a slightly spiffed version of NT. Used it for years. Have it as a VM somewhere. Winders, despite corporate claims, has been a cesspool of old code/ideas and they keep making it WORSE. The 'new and improved' security shit was the final nail so far as I was concerned, it became kind of unusable for a variety of purposes. WinServer ... not nearly as great as advertised. If you want scary, check their 'security' notices. ENDLESS flaws - a lot seem to be due to un-improved code from the 90s, easy buffer overflows. They'll only fix the EXACT problem when it arises, leaving 9999 still to come. UNIX/Linux was always the Better Idea. Moved all my servers, even personal desktop, over to that as soon as practical (like when Linux came on a bunch of floppies). Unfortunately the rest of the staff just could NOT give up their wunnerful Winders - so had to DEAL with all the bullshit for decades. Only ONE other guy there who liked Linux - but he wasn't good enough to take over as IT Guy. NEW IT Guy - went Full M$ ...... oh well, not my problem anymore. Wait until Kim makes all that go away .........
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <AtacnS7M6ejHzXX3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94916 |
On 11/2/26 01:13, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > On 11/2/2026 12:48 PM, rbowman wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 02:16:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: >> >>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times >>>> >>>> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history >>>> suddenly crashes and burns ...... >>> >>> Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of >>> microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's >>> management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't >>> either. >> >> The Rainbow was interesting. Almost, but not quite, compatible with PCs. >> The proprietary diskettes at $5 a pop didn't go over well either. >> >> Olsen's belief that people didn't need or want a home computer wasn't >> unique in that era. Ward Christensen of xmodem fame worked for IBM. >> Famously he sent a memo up the chain of command saying IBM should look >> into microcomputers. The reply was there was no market for them but if he >> wanted to screw around with them on his own time feel free. >> >> We contracted to supply cable assemblies to DEC in Augusta ME in the >> '70s. >> Their QA was quite demanding but we could pass inspection. Then they gave >> the contract to the Passamaquoddy tribe. I don't know how that turned >> out. > > Nobody can prevent someone else from inventing something that changes > the business rules from under you. I'm only theorizing here, but I > would not be surprised [1] if DOOM sold a lot of home PCs in the early > 90s, then Quake even more. DOOM and DUKE NUKEM were great. QUAKE ... it was mostly BLACK SCREEN shit, why bother having a monitor ??? Still have DUKE stashed away somewhere, runs in DOSBox. Lots of user-created episodes too. For one I had to write a 256 bit binary-2-decimal calculator :-) DOOM-1 ... the droning music and pouncing monsters ... gave me PTSD. Same for a number of people I knew. Got into your head. Heard the mil adapted it for commando training because of that - get the troops KEYED UP. Remember I kept reaching for my "shotgun" when there were sudden events for awhile .... PTSD. D2 didn't do that. > Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant > for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the > rest was just marketing. > > The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then > gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM > shouldn't be underestimated. It was an important milestone - and boosted the development of a lot of shit. "Games" are, unto themselves, trivial. However the tech/knowledge to do them well drove a lot of tech. A *large* market segment demanded the 'better game computer', so .... NVidia came out of that. Now it's a zillion dollar concern smack in the middle of 'AI'. > Side note: there's a marketing book called /Guerilla Marketing/ that > touches upon this subject. > > > Best wishes, and happy victories in DOOM! > > [1] And indeed would be surprised it wasn't a significant factor.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <C__FS.30813$Gsmc.23289@fx17.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94922 |
On 11/2/2026 4:56 PM, c186282 wrote: >> The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then >> gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM >> shouldn't be underestimated. > > It was an important milestone - and boosted > the development of a lot of shit. "Games" > are, unto themselves, trivial. However the > tech/knowledge to do them well drove a lot > of tech. A *large* market segment demanded > the 'better game computer', so .... > > NVidia came out of that. Now it's a zillion > dollar concern smack in the middle of 'AI'. And now people are dreaming NVidia will disappear, the way of DEC. Well maybe it /will/ be sold to HP? After all, gamers want their affordable graphics cards back. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ca4ho$2t6dm$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94931 |
On 02/11/2026 12:03, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > On 11/2/2026 4:56 PM, c186282 wrote: >>> The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then >>> gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM >>> shouldn't be underestimated. >> >> It was an important milestone - and boosted >> the development of a lot of shit. "Games" >> are, unto themselves, trivial. However the >> tech/knowledge to do them well drove a lot >> of tech. A *large* market segment demanded >> the 'better game computer', so .... >> >> NVidia came out of that. Now it's a zillion >> dollar concern smack in the middle of 'AI'. > > And now people are dreaming NVidia will disappear, the way of DEC. Well > maybe it /will/ be sold to HP? > > After all, gamers want their affordable graphics cards back. Companies spread like bacteria. A niche appears., Its has food,. They expand to exploit the resource base. Then the resource runs out, and they die. Same with civilisations. Existing ones are based on coal and oil. Upcoming ones will be IT and nuclear power -- Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get. Mark Twain
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nks87dF2rmsU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94931 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 20:03:46 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > And now people are dreaming NVidia will disappear, the way of DEC. Well > maybe it /will/ be sold to HP? > > After all, gamers want their affordable graphics cards back. A viable alternative to CUDA will be needed first.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <WfacneJt4NA3sHX3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94912 |
On 11/1/26 21:16, John Levine wrote: > According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times :-) >> >> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp >> with good history suddenly crashes and burns ...... > > Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of microprocessors > was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's management never figured that out, > and its board of directors didn't either. I can believe "board of directors" ... but not so much the hands-on people at DEC. One factor MAY have been shifting so much to the micro-VAX units ... basically good PCs. Too much competition at that level. Winders and UNIX on x86 and, for awhile, 68xxx, kinda had that market sewn up and for cheaper than anything DEC could provide. Micro-VAX were good - used 'em - still have a hugely thick VMS manual. One place I did work used a micro-VAX for the entire campus. People had PCs, but mostly used them as dumb-ish terminals for the VAX. Just after I left they moved to a little x86 cluster and some kind of UNIX (or maybe Solaris ?). More better for more cheap. IBM dumped its PCs and put more money into it's minis and super-duper mainframes and systems and all the goodies. IBM is still here, DEC is not. NONE of the "Big Old Boyz" remain except IBM. People make fun of IBM but it IS a survivor, a more sensitive ear to the ground, so to speak. Even now loads of chip-makers and such are quietly paying royalties to IBM. Honeywell, Burroughs and friends - you helped us Get There, but ... wrong steps ....... WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with them, but they'd be SO cool ! Anyway they do have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'. Apparently the IBM spin of RedHat is now the most popular user mainframe OS. Plan-9 WAS ported, but I don't think it ever got much of a following (actually a good cluster system though but RH is better supported). > Gordon Bell wrote this afterword for the "DEC is Dead" book which explains it well. > > https://gordonbell.azurewebsites.net/CGB%20Files/DEC_Is_Dead_Bell_Appendix_Schein_Book.pdf One guy's opinions, probably had a grudge. As usual, it's gonna be more complicated, subtle, than that.
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c9ibo$2e740$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94917 |
On 2026-11-02 07:28, c186282 wrote: > [...] > > WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM > mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with > them, but they'd be SO cool ! :-) There's a couple hardware types I'd have liked to have - and I'd also not know what to do with them but to wallow in memories. > Anyway they do > have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big > industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'. Hmm.. - "need" - really? During the 1990's we switched our big telcos from mainframes to Unix servers. The huge sports halls where the mainframes had been running were almost empty then. It was just more economic to run Unix servers (mainframe support was costly, as was just running them), also more ecologic (though I'm not sure that this mattered that much in practice, but costs of electricity might have been an issue), and the much less required physical space as said. Basically all cost factors. Also computing centers switched. Our LRZ, formerly running a CDC 175, is meanwhile running various Unix clusters for "super computing". Our university also said goodbye to its TR440 and is providing mainly Linux systems to its students for the scientific oriented departments. The only "need" for a mainframe I observed in some financial business area, where they were still running their legacy software on mainframes obviously with "no chance" to migrate, or not wanting to take the risk and cost (as long as the old machinery is doing its task). But it's also difficult to get spares, and to find people who can and are willing to operate them. (But that information is now a bit dated and things may have meanwhile changed even in that business area.) Janis > [...]
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c9rph$2oln7$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94921 |
On 02/11/2026 08:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 2026-11-02 07:28, c186282 wrote: >> [...] >> >> WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM >> mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with >> them, but they'd be SO cool ! > > :-) > > There's a couple hardware types I'd have liked to have - > and I'd also not know what to do with them but to wallow > in memories. > >> Anyway they do >> have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big >> industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'. > > Hmm.. - "need" - really? > > During the 1990's we switched our big telcos from mainframes > to Unix servers. The huge sports halls where the mainframes > had been running were almost empty then. It was just more > economic to run Unix servers (mainframe support was costly, > as was just running them), also more ecologic (though I'm > not sure that this mattered that much in practice, but costs > of electricity might have been an issue), and the much less > required physical space as said. Basically all cost factors. > > Also computing centers switched. Our LRZ, formerly running > a CDC 175, is meanwhile running various Unix clusters for > "super computing". Our university also said goodbye to its > TR440 and is providing mainly Linux systems to its students > for the scientific oriented departments. > Yes. The transition from mainframe, to Unix clusters and then to blade servers shrunk machine rooms to almost nothing, amnd high speed internet moved them to cloud centres > The only "need" for a mainframe I observed in some financial > business area, where they were still running their legacy > software on mainframes obviously with "no chance" to migrate, > or not wanting to take the risk and cost (as long as the old > machinery is doing its task). But it's also difficult to get > spares, and to find people who can and are willing to operate > them. (But that information is now a bit dated and things may > have meanwhile changed even in that business area.) > That's not quite true. First of all old IBM COBOL and RPG is well supported on modern µP based hardware. and second mainframes are still in use where enormous numbers of I/O operations are called for. "Mainframes remain the invisible backbone of the global economy in the 21st century, handling 90% of credit card transactions, powering 92 of the top 100 banks, and managing 68% of production IT workloads globally while accounting for just a fraction of total IT spending." Mainframes remain cost effective alternatives for very large scale low complexcity transactions -- It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Mark Twain
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <a6%FS.31515$DTve.14247@fx18.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94928 |
On 11/2/2026 7:22 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 02/11/2026 08:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> On 2026-11-02 07:28, c186282 wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>> WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM >>> mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with >>> them, but they'd be SO cool ! >> >> :-) >> >> There's a couple hardware types I'd have liked to have - >> and I'd also not know what to do with them but to wallow >> in memories. >> >>> Anyway they do >>> have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big >>> industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'. >> >> Hmm.. - "need" - really? >> >> During the 1990's we switched our big telcos from mainframes >> to Unix servers. The huge sports halls where the mainframes >> had been running were almost empty then. It was just more >> economic to run Unix servers (mainframe support was costly, >> as was just running them), also more ecologic (though I'm >> not sure that this mattered that much in practice, but costs >> of electricity might have been an issue), and the much less >> required physical space as said. Basically all cost factors. >> >> Also computing centers switched. Our LRZ, formerly running >> a CDC 175, is meanwhile running various Unix clusters for >> "super computing". Our university also said goodbye to its >> TR440 and is providing mainly Linux systems to its students >> for the scientific oriented departments. >> > Yes. The transition from mainframe, to Unix clusters and then to blade > servers shrunk machine rooms to almost nothing, amnd high speed internet > moved them to cloud centres > >> The only "need" for a mainframe I observed in some financial >> business area, where they were still running their legacy >> software on mainframes obviously with "no chance" to migrate, >> or not wanting to take the risk and cost (as long as the old >> machinery is doing its task). But it's also difficult to get >> spares, and to find people who can and are willing to operate >> them. (But that information is now a bit dated and things may >> have meanwhile changed even in that business area.) >> > That's not quite true. First of all old IBM COBOL and RPG is well > supported on modern µP based hardware. and second mainframes are still > in use where enormous numbers of I/O operations are called for. > > "Mainframes remain the invisible backbone of the global economy in the > 21st century, handling 90% of credit card transactions, powering 92 of > the top 100 banks, and managing 68% of production IT workloads globally > while accounting for just a fraction of total IT spending." > > Mainframes remain cost effective alternatives for very large scale low > complexcity transactions > > I've heard -- let's say verbally -- that the relentless transaction pro- cessing done on mainframes is hard to do on different types of machines. And what is hard? I haven't worked with mainframes, but last time I looked into it, POWER was the only CPU with hardware accelerated decimal arithmetic [1]. This is the kind of computation universities don't do as research, so -- based on my stories of academia -- there are none there for budding CS doctorates to tinker with. So if people think mainframes are somehow /obsolete/, it's because they are extrapolating from their own personal experiences and never look un- der the hood of the commercial world. Best wishes, and happy mainframes! [1] I don't have a POWER CPU, and didn't personally verify this. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ca4rv$2t6dm$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94932 |
On 02/11/2026 12:11, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > So if people think mainframes are somehow /obsolete/, it's because they > are extrapolating from their own personal experiences and never look un- > der the hood of the commercial world. Yes. I've been exposed to computers all the way from LSI TTL, micros and PCs , minis and occasionally mainframes, not in that I worked on them, bit I was aware of where they fitted into the overall landscape COBOL RPG and mainframes were designed to do a job that hasn't really changed. The minis were designed to do a job that any PC can do better and cheaper. And the supercomputer no longer exists as it once was. Adapt, or die. Most die -- There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy.
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cb5rk$2e740$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94935 |
On 2026-11-02 14:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 02/11/2026 12:11, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> So if people think mainframes are somehow /obsolete/, it's because they >> are extrapolating from their own personal experiences and never look un- >> der the hood of the commercial world. Not sure to what "people" you are referring to. - My own reports at least were from quite a couple different and major commercial areas where I had some insights in; computing centers, telecommunications sector, insurances financial sector, governmental financial sector. But since 'Myrkraverk' is in my killfile don't bother replying to me. > [...] (Just replying to the quoted text, not yours.) Janis
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cb55p$2e740$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94928 |
On 2026-11-02 12:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 02/11/2026 08:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> On 2026-11-02 07:28, c186282 wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>> WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM >>> mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with >>> them, but they'd be SO cool ! >> >> :-) >> >> There's a couple hardware types I'd have liked to have - >> and I'd also not know what to do with them but to wallow >> in memories. >> >>> Anyway they do >>> have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big >>> industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'. >> >> Hmm.. - "need" - really? >> >> During the 1990's we switched our big telcos from mainframes >> to Unix servers. The huge sports halls where the mainframes >> had been running were almost empty then. It was just more >> economic to run Unix servers (mainframe support was costly, >> as was just running them), also more ecologic (though I'm >> not sure that this mattered that much in practice, but costs >> of electricity might have been an issue), and the much less >> required physical space as said. Basically all cost factors. >> >> Also computing centers switched. Our LRZ, formerly running >> a CDC 175, is meanwhile running various Unix clusters for >> "super computing". Our university also said goodbye to its >> TR440 and is providing mainly Linux systems to its students >> for the scientific oriented departments. >> > Yes. The transition from mainframe, to Unix clusters and then to blade > servers shrunk machine rooms to almost nothing, amnd high speed internet > moved them to cloud centres > >> The only "need" for a mainframe I observed in some financial >> business area, where they were still running their legacy >> software on mainframes obviously with "no chance" to migrate, >> or not wanting to take the risk and cost (as long as the old >> machinery is doing its task). But it's also difficult to get >> spares, and to find people who can and are willing to operate >> them. (But that information is now a bit dated and things may >> have meanwhile changed even in that business area.) >> > That's not quite true. What specifically are you referring to here? That I observed mainframes still in use in commercial contexts? Or my speculation that this might meanwhile have changed? Or that the reason for not having done a change was something else? I've worked in several business areas were mainframes had been used. * The computing centers I was aware of changed their architectures from mainframe architectures to clusters. * The telcos down-scaled the [amount of] metal, yet increased their throughput by switching away from mainframes. They made the change because they also needed a lot contemporary new functions supported and it was far too costly and much more effort to do that on legacy mainframe hardware. * The business area I worked in where there were still running some mainframes did so primarily because of the mentioned reasons. That was 20 years ago, so that's the reason why I said that things "may" have meanwhile changed. If they need to runs (similar to the telcos) significant amounts of new functions they have to do the calculation whether it pays to do that on the old systems. And they have to take into consideration whether they have (or can find) programmers for old legacy languages as far as the legacy software is concerned; two decades ago we didn't find any COBOL programmers for those tasks and I'd expect that the situation got even worse meanwhile. * Most (all?) internet providers I've heard of aren't using mainframes but built their systems architecture based on (often Linux-)clusters. There must be reasons to change a running mainframe system. As said, such a transition process can be risky and is costly (without instant gain of any new functions). The reasons I've heard from the financial sectors, i.e. not to switch, were exactly those. I'm also a bit astonished about your mention of using mainframes for efficient I/O. Networking clusters appear to me to be much better able than a single mainframe instance. The older mainframe architectures we used also had a lot of peripheral processors to specifically handle the I/O. (But of course I can, as I did, just report about the (certainly non- singular) cases I was involved in or heard from reliable sources.) Janis > [...]
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