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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread

Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI

Started byLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
First post2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Last post2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 507 — 35 participants

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Contents

  Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:02 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:43 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:12 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:04 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:24 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:04 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:17 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 17:33 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:26 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:39 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:31 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 00:17 -0400
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:58 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 03:33 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 09:06 -0700
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:37 -0400
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:09 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:16 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:56 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-21 14:23 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 19:14 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:22 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 10:54 -0700
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:07 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 14:02 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 15:17 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:07 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 11:49 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 15:09 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:08 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-22 10:37 -0700
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 19:29 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:04 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-22 02:04 +0000
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:51 +0200
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 14:18 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:15 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-21 17:33 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 02:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:16 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-20 18:26 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 11:46 -0700
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:01 -0700
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:27 +0100
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:23 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-20 18:15 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:27 +0200
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                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:18 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-21 03:22 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:25 +0000
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                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 00:47 -0400
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:09 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 19:06 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:09 +0100
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                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 07:08 -0400
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              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000
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                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
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                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:22 +0000
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                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:41 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:00 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:57 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:26 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:42 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:56 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:14 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:07 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:20 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:26 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-10-19 17:18 -0300
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Helmut Waitzmann <nn.throttle@erine.email> - 2026-10-21 00:54 +0200
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-23 18:50 +0200
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 23:59 -0400
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 11:53 +0200
                      Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-24 12:10 +0000
                        Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
                          Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
                            Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
                              Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
                                Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
                                  Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
                                    [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
                                                    Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:49 +0000
                                                      Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-31 13:11 +0000
                                                        Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
                                                        Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 22:41 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:18 -0500
                                                        Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-01 01:08 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-11-01 10:58 +0100
                                                    Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:57 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:48 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:58 -0400
                        Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:57 -0400
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-24 13:41 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-24 21:31 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-24 22:36 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-25 23:49 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:04 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:15 -0400
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 04:42 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-24 12:06 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-25 23:59 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:41 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:50 -0400
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 02:44 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 15:16 -0700
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 02:26 +0100
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            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:26 +0100
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:40 +0100
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                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:39 +0100
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      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:16 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:51 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:04 +0100
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              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:03 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:26 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:21 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 15:07 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 21:26 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 01:55 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:07 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:28 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:35 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:09 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-16 16:37 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:51 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 11:44 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:14 +0000
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-16 17:10 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 17:56 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:10 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 18:32 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:52 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:28 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:52 -0400
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 -0700
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:11 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:50 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 09:43 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:02 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:06 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:15 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 19:55 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:38 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:08 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 19:51 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 17:36 +0200
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:12 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:05 +0000
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#94867 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c5n4b$1f300$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94849
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote:

> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more
> software.

If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of
(currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is
IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1.

Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection.

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#94879 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<K2idnW7KxZMmm3r3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94867
On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote:
> 
>> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more
>> software.
> 
> If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of
> (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is
> IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1.
> 
> Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection.

   The DEC boxes were GREAT !

   Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely
   idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it.

   Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a
   fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient
   modern features - could do international internet
   before there WAS an internet.

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#94882 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c73he$1s1nv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94879
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb:
> On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote:
>> 
>>> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more
>>> software.
>> 
>> If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of
>> (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is
>> IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1.
>> 
>> Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection.
>
>    The DEC boxes were GREAT !
>
>    Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely
>    idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it.

Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible
for both).

If you are interested, you could look up "DEC is Dead, Long Live
DEC", an excellent book.

>    Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a
>    fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient
>    modern features - could do international internet
>    before there WAS an internet.

Somebody is trying to do so (see https://vmssoftware.com/) but
that particular train has left the station a long time ago.

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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#94836 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nklvdeFas32U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94786
On 2026-10-29 22:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>>> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
>>
>> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.
> 
> I'm asking for personal recollections.  When did it happen for you?
> I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect
> opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their
> punch card days.
> 
> And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than
> engineering.
> 
>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals
>> earlier.
> 
> That's one data point, thanks.


I was forced by the system to take first year of engineering at the 
university in my province. All engineering had the same first year. Once 
we (if!) we passed, we could actually choose what college to continue 
in. So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that was in 
the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was shared by 
all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and that I had 
just missed it.

And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had to 
suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take days.

(I think that the school in which he did the first year had some 
computer thing in the Maths course, but I don't remember well what he 
told me)

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#94851 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c529k$nak9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94836
On 2026-10-31 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> [...] So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that was in 
> the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was shared by 
> all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and that I had 
> just missed it.
> 
> And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had to 
> suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take days.

Strong words. And absurd time scales. They certainly don't match my
observations. All of us did our punch cards based coding often just
during the pauses between the lectures; the basic code maybe in an
hour, the fixes - usually just one or two iterations needed - done
during the "cum tempore" 10 minutes. But most programming in those
early beginner courses also wasn't too voluminous, to be fair.

What certainly was painful was the (for obvious reasons) inherent
non-existence of a <Del> or <Backspace> key on the punch devices.
(They had a useful "Copy" key (<Dup>?), though.)[*]

BTW, a "nightmare" I considered the keyboards that came with the
VT100 series of terminals! (My fingers still ache if I only think
back of these days!) Luckily these times passed fast.

Janis, now back at his Model-M keyboard clone

[*] IIRC, they looked like (or may even have been) these devices:
https://mimmsmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Punchcard-708x1024.jpg
(For those who couldn't imagine what we dinosaurs are talking about.) :-)
Still amazing seeing images of these devices again after all those
many decades.

> [...]

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#94861 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkmsliFftpsU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94851
On 2026-10-31 16:42, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-31 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> [...] So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that 
>> was in the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was 
>> shared by all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and 
>> that I had just missed it.
>>
>> And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had 
>> to suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take 
>> days.
> 
> Strong words. And absurd time scales. They certainly don't match my
> observations. All of us did our punch cards based coding often just
> during the pauses between the lectures; the basic code maybe in an
> hour, the fixes - usually just one or two iterations needed - done
> during the "cum tempore" 10 minutes. But most programming in those
> early beginner courses also wasn't too voluminous, to be fair.
> 
> What certainly was painful was the (for obvious reasons) inherent
> non-existence of a <Del> or <Backspace> key on the punch devices.
> (They had a useful "Copy" key (<Dup>?), though.)[*]

I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched. 
Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students.

I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a 
clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day.

...

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#94863 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c5ij7$nak9$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94861
On 2026-10-31 20:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched. 
> Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students.

We had a "row" of such machines available. Don't recall to have
ever waited for a free place (or the waiting time was negligible).

> 
> I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a 
> clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day.

The way it was done in our place was technically similar but did
not require that much time.

The batch cards reader was in an accessible are, you could just
put the cards either directly in the reader device or in a queue
on a nearby desk where an operator did that job then. The reader
was constantly fed with cards by the operators since the queue
was also regularly filled by all the students; hardly more delay
than, maybe, 15 minutes. The printouts were quickly created with
the batch processing by super-fast chain printers, so were also
available in short term. Some delay was due to the fanfold paper
needed to be physically separated (by the jobs or user IDs) to be
associated to the different users. The output landed sorted in a
special shelf where we could fetch them. The whole batch process,
from the punch cards delivery to getting the printout results in
(typically less than) an hour.

A peculiarity of the physical separation of the printouts was the
application of a nice trick; the printing logic for the front page
of the job printed some text (X-es?) across the paper-perforation
so that the individual jobs could quickly be detected visually if
you looked at the paper stack from the side.

Janis

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#94884 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkolhmFp0edU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94863
On 2026-10-31 21:20, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-31 20:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched. 
>> Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students.
> 
> We had a "row" of such machines available. Don't recall to have
> ever waited for a free place (or the waiting time was negligible).
> 
>>
>> I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a 
>> clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day.
> 
> The way it was done in our place was technically similar but did
> not require that much time.
> 
> The batch cards reader was in an accessible are, you could just
> put the cards either directly in the reader device or in a queue
> on a nearby desk where an operator did that job then. The reader
> was constantly fed with cards by the operators since the queue
> was also regularly filled by all the students; hardly more delay
> than, maybe, 15 minutes. The printouts were quickly created with
> the batch processing by super-fast chain printers, so were also
> available in short term. Some delay was due to the fanfold paper
> needed to be physically separated (by the jobs or user IDs) to be
> associated to the different users. The output landed sorted in a
> special shelf where we could fetch them. The whole batch process,
> from the punch cards delivery to getting the printout results in
> (typically less than) an hour.
> 
> A peculiarity of the physical separation of the printouts was the
> application of a nice trick; the printing logic for the front page
> of the job printed some text (X-es?) across the paper-perforation
> so that the individual jobs could quickly be detected visually if
> you looked at the paper stack from the side.

Ah! This part I knew nothing about, but makes sense.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#94856 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkmr4qFftq4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94836
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:49:18 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I was forced by the system to take first year of engineering at the
> university in my province. All engineering had the same first year. Once
> we (if!) we passed, we could actually choose what college to continue
> in.

At mine the first two years were the same for everyone. It provided the 
basics needed for specialization. 

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#94838 — Re: [OT] Punch card times

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times
Message-ID<nklvsjFas33U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94786
On 2026-10-29 22:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:


>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals
>> earlier.
> 
> That's one data point, thanks.

I have one recollection of maybe 1983 or 84, visiting the microwave 
department, which was designing the aerial complex of a new frigate. 
They had a model to scale in an anechoic chamber; they had to scale the 
frequencies up to match the ship model. And they had an Apple-II (or was 
it I?) doing some long calculations. The display was off, the teacher 
was in the back, and he asked us near the machine to turn the display on 
to see the simulation. None of us knew how to do that. He had to come to 
the front, grumbling about how come we did not know where the switch was.

Well, none of us had the money to buy an Apple II! And the IBM PC was 
still a year or two away.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#94858 — Re: [OT] Punch card times

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times
Message-ID<nkmrq0Fftq4U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94838
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:57:23 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I have one recollection of maybe 1983 or 84, visiting the microwave
> department, which was designing the aerial complex of a new frigate.
> They had a model to scale in an anechoic chamber; they had to scale the
> frequencies up to match the ship model. And they had an Apple-II (or was
> it I?) doing some long calculations. The display was off, the teacher
> was in the back, and he asked us near the machine to turn the display on
> to see the simulation. None of us knew how to do that. He had to come to
> the front, grumbling about how come we did not know where the switch
> was.
> 
> Well, none of us had the money to buy an Apple II! And the IBM PC was
> still a year or two away.

The company I worked for wasn't big on pending money but for some reason 
they had a firm come it to teach us pair programming. The presenter 
arrived with Macs for the hands on experience. There were probably 60 
people attending, none of whom had ever used a Mac. The programmers from 
my area grabbed the snacks and ghosted. 

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#94868 — Re: [OT] Punch card times

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-31 21:48 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times
Message-ID<11c5nml$1f300$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94838
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:57:23 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I have one recollection of maybe 1983 or 84, visiting the microwave
> department, which was designing the aerial complex of a new frigate.
> They had a model to scale in an anechoic chamber; they had to scale
> the frequencies up to match the ship model. And they had an Apple-II
> (or was it I?) doing some long calculations.

In about 1987 or so, all the 🇳🇿 universities were members of the Apple
University Consortium. We decided to put together a report on what
people were doing with their respective Apple Mac gear. To try to get
a fresh perspective on things, each University sent a person to report
on another one. I got sent to Auckland.

At the Architecture department, I found a guy using a Macintosh II to
collect data on the acoustic characteristics of architectural models.
As you say, to get the numbers to come out proportionally right, he
had to scale down the wavelengths to match the scale of the model,
which meant scaling up the frequencies. And the old IBM PC (AT?) bus
of the time simply didn’t have the bandwidth to cope with those high
frequencies; but the 32-bit NuBus inside the Mac II could.

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#94788 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c0m0m$3q5il$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94778
On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".

How about “the 1970s”?

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#94801 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<6cqcnXMuGul9yXn3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94788
On 10/29/26 19:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> 
>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
> 
> How about “the 1970s”?

   Fair enough. As said, depends on WHERE.

   Where I was, first saw like a dozen 'public
   access' terminals in 1978.

   But you had to be 'authorized' - and for
   minor users it was just access to a few
   little databases.

   Even the 'big iron' (usually medium-iron) of
   the day couldn't handle TOO much stuff.

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#94797 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-30 03:58 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<L-GdncvKWuWM03n3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94778
On 10/29/26 13:37, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later
>> with terminals as they became available around campus.
> 
> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".

   Ummmm ... started seeing them in the latter 70s ...
   at least ones 'regular people' were allowed to use
   for anything. EXACT date - forget it - depends on
   where you were. Surely sooner at Princeton than
   SteerPoke U.

   Original 'regular people' uses often included the
   printed library card catalog. Those authorized
   COULD write programs however. First I saw were
   hooked to SOME model of DEC iron.

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#94685 — Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-26 00:57 -0400
SubjectRe: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI)
Message-ID<pLicnUKiRtswQEP3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94654
On 10/24/26 08:10, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <11bhv61$1bjd2$2@dont-email.me>,
> Janis Papanagnou  <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>    KSH and BASH are "mostly compatible". Minor diffs but
>>>    nothing hard to get around. Anything you can do in KSH
>>>    can be done in BASH.
>>
>> This is not correct. While Bash has over time adopted quite
>> some features from Ksh - but sadly needed often far too many
>> years for that - there's still a lot substantial functions
>> in Ksh that Bash has not implemented (or substituted by some
>> equivalent feature).
> 
> I think you're taking Speedy way too seriously here.  All of your points
> are valid, of course, but it should not be necessary to respond to the
> troll.
> 
> BTW, you assert that there are (many) features of Ksh that are not (yet)
> present in bash.  I'm not doubting you, but I am curious about examples.
> It seems to me that if you assert something like that, you should give
> examples.

   I've mentioned (necessary) "Functional Convergence". If yer
   shell doesn't do something neat-o some other one does NOW,
   it WILL soon enough. Might get squeezed-in nice/neat, or
   maybe NOT. All great/pure ideas/visions eventually HAVE to
   converge somewhere - or vanish into the historical recycle bin.

   Anyway, for 'scripts', I'm 99% Python now. Does EVERYTHING
   and MUCH clearer than any old shell.

   Of note, did NOT use Python until P3 came out. It seemed
   interesting/versatile but why learn an obsolete version ?
   BASIC, skip the bile, became a fair 'script' lang after
   awhile - but, too clunky IMHO - meant for a different
   era, different environment, different mindset.

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#94657

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2026-10-24 13:41 +0000
Message-ID<6adcb580$0$7075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#94648
Le 24-10-2026, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> a écrit :
> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>    Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now -
>
> Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default.

I just keep this because I guess, if I don't consider it to be wrong
because I know what it exactly means, I believe it's often a source of
confusion. Because it can mean two different things and three different
things must be considered when speaking about the default shell.

Mostly, BASH is the default for the three things, one of them can be
changed effortlessly, one of them would be very difficult to change in
the long term and the last one depend on the interaction with others.

The first thing is the way by which you interact directly with your
SHELL, a kind of REPL. It's just a field in the /etc/passwd file, it's
easy to change and if you prefer any SHELL, just install it, change the
field and it rocks. It's just a matter of taste, nothing can go wrong by
changing it.

The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script. This
one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And things
can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly defined to some
specificities expected by the distro. But really, I'm not sure it's a
real issue because I'm not sure there are reason to change it. The
fact that systemd doesn't need any shell script is a reason why it's nit
that important. One can want to change the default provided by the
distro, but changing the script shell provided by the distro mean each
time an update is done, the changes will be removed. And they will need
special care. When there are ways to change the default without changing
the scripts provided by the distro.

The last one is the shell you choose to write your scripts. It doesn't
need to be the same one than the one you are using to interact with your
shell. As long as the shebang is correctly defined, it depends more on
the people with whom you share it than with any default choice made by
any distro. Because people can be more or less comfortable with
different specificities, even if they can install any available shell.

Unlike the choice of the default bootloader or the choice of the default
init system can can have huge impacts, I really don't see how the choice
of the default shell by a distro can be important (for the end user
because for the contributor, it has some implications).

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#94663

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-24 21:31 +0200
Message-ID<skdvqmxgvc.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#94657
On 2026-10-24 15:41, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 24-10-2026, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> a écrit :
>> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>>     Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now -
>>
>> Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default.
> 
> I just keep this because I guess, if I don't consider it to be wrong
> because I know what it exactly means, I believe it's often a source of
> confusion. Because it can mean two different things and three different
> things must be considered when speaking about the default shell.
> 
> Mostly, BASH is the default for the three things, one of them can be
> changed effortlessly, one of them would be very difficult to change in
> the long term and the last one depend on the interaction with others.
> 
> The first thing is the way by which you interact directly with your
> SHELL, a kind of REPL. It's just a field in the /etc/passwd file, it's
> easy to change and if you prefer any SHELL, just install it, change the
> field and it rocks. It's just a matter of taste, nothing can go wrong by
> changing it.
> 
> The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script. This
> one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And things
> can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly defined to some
> specificities expected by the distro. But really, I'm not sure it's a
> real issue because I'm not sure there are reason to change it. The
> fact that systemd doesn't need any shell script is a reason why it's nit
> that important. One can want to change the default provided by the
> distro, but changing the script shell provided by the distro mean each
> time an update is done, the changes will be removed. And they will need
> special care. When there are ways to change the default without changing
> the scripts provided by the distro.

I don't see any reason to change the shell used by system scripts. If 
the shebang is /bin/sh, and bad things happen if you uninstall bash and 
they are forced to use ksh, well, it is their fault and it is a bug. 
They should have specified the proper shebang. Just report it.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#94665

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-24 22:36 +0000
Message-ID<11bjbu4$340l8$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94657
On 24 Oct 2026 13:41:20 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script.
> This one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And
> things can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly
> defined to some specificities expected by the distro.

Debian (and I guess its derivatives as well) long ago moved away from
the assumption that “/bin/sh” meant the same thing as “/bin/bash”.
They introduced a new, very vanilla, POSIX-compliant shell called
dash(1) <https://manpages.debian.org/dash(1)>, which is the shell that
is invoked when your script says “/bin/sh”.

So if you want bash, you have to explicitly ask for bash.

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#94681

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-25 23:49 -0400
Message-ID<YqednV4C15lKUEP3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94648
On 10/24/26 05:53, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>    KSH and BASH are "mostly compatible". Minor diffs but
>>    nothing hard to get around. Anything you can do in KSH
>>    can be done in BASH.
> 
> This is not correct. While Bash has over time adopted quite
> some features from Ksh - but sadly needed often far too many
> years for that - there's still a lot substantial functions
> in Ksh that Bash has not implemented (or substituted by some
> equivalent feature).
> 
>> [...]
>>
>>    If KSH works for you then stick with it.
> 
> I use Ksh meanwhile for ~35 years, and since I use a lot of
> Ksh features that Bash just doesn't support there's certainly
> no reason to switch. (Also its speed is a criterion, BTW. And
> back then there were no Bash versions on commercial Unixes;
> but commercial Linuxes haven't the prevalence any more today,
> and play no role now in my private systems context.)
> 
>>    Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now -
> 
> Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default.
> 
>>    so if you plan
>>    to 'distribute' your work it'd be better to move your
>>    stuff over to BASH.
> 
> Certainly not.
> 
> And this is short-sighted. If _portability_ is an issue you'd
> better stick with the POSIX subset of both, Ksh and Bash.
> 
> (Sadly, as we observe, especially "Linux kiddies" often don't
> know what that POSIX subset actually is; in their scripts they
> are writing #!/bin/sh and using some bash-specific syntax not
> realizing that there's a difference, and that Bash is not the
> [portable] *standard*.)

   Delay does not necessarily equate with 'ignorance'.

   Different developers ... everyone had their own idea
   of a 'perfect shell' - but then had to adapt and adapt
   again as the Real Needs became more obvious. Now, most
   WILL do the same things - just slightly different syntax.

   I rather liked the 'c-shell' long back because it, well,
   'looked like C'. It was one of the things that attracted
   me to Unix/Linux in the first place. Now I'm happy (ok,
   that's not really the word) with BASH. Not much it
   can't do ... but the fudged-fudged-fudged syntax to add
   features over time CAN be a pain in the ass.

   If I want 'scripting' now, I do it with Python. BASH
   or whatever, maybe it just EVOKES the Python scripts,
   a one or two-liner. Wrote many rather long BASH scripts
   in the past, and while they worked they were, well, just
   TOO messy/cryptic.

   Last big BASH script I did was for backing up a bunch
   of on-network drives. Mount-checking (important), calls
   to rsync and openSSH and ftp, local AND 'cloud', all
   with some confirmation checks along the way. SEMI-repeating
   units but each was a bit 'special'.

   (ALWAYS pre-encrypt before sending to 'cloud' - I do
   NOT trust the providers one bit. Mine had an extension
   that 'suggested' some kind of ZIP, just to help them
   waste time)

   RE-did it in Python. MUCH shorter and more comprehensible
   and a nice easy CSV config file you could tweak in a text
   editor or spreadsheet. Python made it all BETTER.

   Had a 'C' version of that backup pgm earlier. Worked
   fine, but there was a lot of string checking/editing
   involved and 'C' is CLUNKY with string shit. Python
   stole the FORTRAN string-slicing stuff, good deal !

   Won't ever use BASH or any other 'shell script' for
   that kind of task again. Those might be "trad -IX"
   but IMHO they're just OVER. "Solutions" MOVED ON.

>>    Most distros, users would have to
>>    intentionally install KSH and scripts would need a
>>    shebang at the top to specify which shell to use.
> 
> I don't recall to have ever "intentionally installed" Ksh on
> Linux. Earlier Linuxes had just a (sub-optimal!) PD-ksh that
> you could use out of the box. Later they provided also the
> much better "original" [AT&T] Ksh, and meanwhile you find on
> (some?) Linuxes ksh93u+m, Martijn Dekker's improved version.

   Um ... these days, almost all distros, you do have
   to "intentionally install" KSH or any rivals. BASH
   rules by default.

> Of course you can call shell scripts with the executable-flag
> set and with a she-bang line on top. Personally I run most
> shell scripts with the interpreter explicitly provided, as in
>    ksh my-script flags arguments
> allowing easy debugging by adding '-x' without explicit 'set'
> command in the script. Only if some script gets the status of
> a "standard-command" I regularly use I set the shebang. YMMV.

   Direct spec of the shell IS useful, however the
   'shebang' trick works well too.

> (So you don't "need" a shebang line, but it's useful.)
> 
>>    (good practice, always add the shebang)
> 
> Yes, if you are running your scripts executable script (or if
> you want to give your editor a hint for syntax highlighting,
> what shell is actually used, or just for specification purpose;
> but note, as said above, that we see many people have no clear
> idea about what a "/bin/sh" is and where /bin/bash or /bin/ksh
> differ from the standard.

   I have, I think, FOUR shells on this machine. The
   shebang IS required/desired.

   Still kinda like 'tcsh', it's there in case I get
   a brain-worm and wanna fool around with olde-dayz
   stuff. Zsh ain't so bad either.

   But, as said, for 'scripting' now, Python is by
   far my #1 choice unless the script is like a
   simple little ten-liner. Tend to use those on
   my PIs.

   Fooled around a bit with Lua and Ruby for scripting,
   but, really, Python and the MASSIVE number of libs
   have them beat. Python will do ANYTHING these days,
   just not as fast as 'C'. However CPU speed is less
   of a thing these days - I/O ops drag things down
   more than the CPU - so Python and 'C' can usually
   compete pretty well.

   There are Python compilers too. The main issue there
   is all the sub-sub-versions of Python, so you always
   have to include the entire binaries into each compilation
   to ensure it'll work. But then space is also a minor
   issue now as well unless you're doing micro-controllers.
   Did my share of those - DO teach you how to really SQUEEZE
   shit in - all computer kiddies should learn MCs first.

   . . .

   ("Harry talks in his sleep, didn't you notice ?"
     Slight telling delay, then Hermonie says 'No' :-)

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