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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 507 — 35 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:16 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 11:53 +0200
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Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
[OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
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Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-31 13:11 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:53 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 22:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:18 -0500
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-01 01:08 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-11-01 10:58 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:58 -0400
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Page 16 of 26 — ← Prev page 1 … 14 15 [16] 17 18 … 26 Next page →
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c5n4b$1f300$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94849 |
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: > The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more > software. If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <K2idnW7KxZMmm3r3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94867 |
On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: > >> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more >> software. > > If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of > (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is > IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. > > Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection. The DEC boxes were GREAT ! Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it. Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient modern features - could do international internet before there WAS an internet.
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c73he$1s1nv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94879 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb: > On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: >> >>> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more >>> software. >> >> If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of >> (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is >> IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. >> >> Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection. > > The DEC boxes were GREAT ! > > Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely > idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it. Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible for both). If you are interested, you could look up "DEC is Dead, Long Live DEC", an excellent book. > Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a > fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient > modern features - could do international internet > before there WAS an internet. Somebody is trying to do so (see https://vmssoftware.com/) but that particular train has left the station a long time ago. -- This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence, artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity, artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nklvdeFas32U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 2026-10-29 22:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
>>
>> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.
>
> I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you?
> I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect
> opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their
> punch card days.
>
> And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than
> engineering.
>
>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals
>> earlier.
>
> That's one data point, thanks.
I was forced by the system to take first year of engineering at the
university in my province. All engineering had the same first year. Once
we (if!) we passed, we could actually choose what college to continue
in. So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that was in
the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was shared by
all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and that I had
just missed it.
And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had to
suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take days.
(I think that the school in which he did the first year had some
computer thing in the Maths course, but I don't remember well what he
told me)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c529k$nak9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94836 |
On 2026-10-31 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote: > [...] So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that was in > the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was shared by > all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and that I had > just missed it. > > And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had to > suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take days. Strong words. And absurd time scales. They certainly don't match my observations. All of us did our punch cards based coding often just during the pauses between the lectures; the basic code maybe in an hour, the fixes - usually just one or two iterations needed - done during the "cum tempore" 10 minutes. But most programming in those early beginner courses also wasn't too voluminous, to be fair. What certainly was painful was the (for obvious reasons) inherent non-existence of a <Del> or <Backspace> key on the punch devices. (They had a useful "Copy" key (<Dup>?), though.)[*] BTW, a "nightmare" I considered the keyboards that came with the VT100 series of terminals! (My fingers still ache if I only think back of these days!) Luckily these times passed fast. Janis, now back at his Model-M keyboard clone [*] IIRC, they looked like (or may even have been) these devices: https://mimmsmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Punchcard-708x1024.jpg (For those who couldn't imagine what we dinosaurs are talking about.) :-) Still amazing seeing images of these devices again after all those many decades. > [...]
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkmsliFftpsU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94851 |
On 2026-10-31 16:42, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-31 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> [...] So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that
>> was in the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was
>> shared by all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and
>> that I had just missed it.
>>
>> And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had
>> to suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take
>> days.
>
> Strong words. And absurd time scales. They certainly don't match my
> observations. All of us did our punch cards based coding often just
> during the pauses between the lectures; the basic code maybe in an
> hour, the fixes - usually just one or two iterations needed - done
> during the "cum tempore" 10 minutes. But most programming in those
> early beginner courses also wasn't too voluminous, to be fair.
>
> What certainly was painful was the (for obvious reasons) inherent
> non-existence of a <Del> or <Backspace> key on the punch devices.
> (They had a useful "Copy" key (<Dup>?), though.)[*]
I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched.
Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students.
I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a
clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day.
...
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c5ij7$nak9$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94861 |
On 2026-10-31 20:08, Carlos E. R. wrote: > > I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched. > Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students. We had a "row" of such machines available. Don't recall to have ever waited for a free place (or the waiting time was negligible). > > I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a > clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day. The way it was done in our place was technically similar but did not require that much time. The batch cards reader was in an accessible are, you could just put the cards either directly in the reader device or in a queue on a nearby desk where an operator did that job then. The reader was constantly fed with cards by the operators since the queue was also regularly filled by all the students; hardly more delay than, maybe, 15 minutes. The printouts were quickly created with the batch processing by super-fast chain printers, so were also available in short term. Some delay was due to the fanfold paper needed to be physically separated (by the jobs or user IDs) to be associated to the different users. The output landed sorted in a special shelf where we could fetch them. The whole batch process, from the punch cards delivery to getting the printout results in (typically less than) an hour. A peculiarity of the physical separation of the printouts was the application of a nice trick; the printing logic for the front page of the job printed some text (X-es?) across the paper-perforation so that the individual jobs could quickly be detected visually if you looked at the paper stack from the side. Janis
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkolhmFp0edU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94863 |
On 2026-10-31 21:20, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-31 20:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched.
>> Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students.
>
> We had a "row" of such machines available. Don't recall to have
> ever waited for a free place (or the waiting time was negligible).
>
>>
>> I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a
>> clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day.
>
> The way it was done in our place was technically similar but did
> not require that much time.
>
> The batch cards reader was in an accessible are, you could just
> put the cards either directly in the reader device or in a queue
> on a nearby desk where an operator did that job then. The reader
> was constantly fed with cards by the operators since the queue
> was also regularly filled by all the students; hardly more delay
> than, maybe, 15 minutes. The printouts were quickly created with
> the batch processing by super-fast chain printers, so were also
> available in short term. Some delay was due to the fanfold paper
> needed to be physically separated (by the jobs or user IDs) to be
> associated to the different users. The output landed sorted in a
> special shelf where we could fetch them. The whole batch process,
> from the punch cards delivery to getting the printout results in
> (typically less than) an hour.
>
> A peculiarity of the physical separation of the printouts was the
> application of a nice trick; the printing logic for the front page
> of the job printed some text (X-es?) across the paper-perforation
> so that the individual jobs could quickly be detected visually if
> you looked at the paper stack from the side.
Ah! This part I knew nothing about, but makes sense.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkmr4qFftq4U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94836 |
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:49:18 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: > I was forced by the system to take first year of engineering at the > university in my province. All engineering had the same first year. Once > we (if!) we passed, we could actually choose what college to continue > in. At mine the first two years were the same for everyone. It provided the basics needed for specialization.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times |
| Message-ID | <nklvsjFas33U5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 2026-10-29 22:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals
>> earlier.
>
> That's one data point, thanks.
I have one recollection of maybe 1983 or 84, visiting the microwave
department, which was designing the aerial complex of a new frigate.
They had a model to scale in an anechoic chamber; they had to scale the
frequencies up to match the ship model. And they had an Apple-II (or was
it I?) doing some long calculations. The display was off, the teacher
was in the back, and he asked us near the machine to turn the display on
to see the simulation. None of us knew how to do that. He had to come to
the front, grumbling about how come we did not know where the switch was.
Well, none of us had the money to buy an Apple II! And the IBM PC was
still a year or two away.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times |
| Message-ID | <nkmrq0Fftq4U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94838 |
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:57:23 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: > I have one recollection of maybe 1983 or 84, visiting the microwave > department, which was designing the aerial complex of a new frigate. > They had a model to scale in an anechoic chamber; they had to scale the > frequencies up to match the ship model. And they had an Apple-II (or was > it I?) doing some long calculations. The display was off, the teacher > was in the back, and he asked us near the machine to turn the display on > to see the simulation. None of us knew how to do that. He had to come to > the front, grumbling about how come we did not know where the switch > was. > > Well, none of us had the money to buy an Apple II! And the IBM PC was > still a year or two away. The company I worked for wasn't big on pending money but for some reason they had a firm come it to teach us pair programming. The presenter arrived with Macs for the hands on experience. There were probably 60 people attending, none of whom had ever used a Mac. The programmers from my area grabbed the snacks and ghosted.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 21:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times |
| Message-ID | <11c5nml$1f300$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94838 |
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:57:23 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: > I have one recollection of maybe 1983 or 84, visiting the microwave > department, which was designing the aerial complex of a new frigate. > They had a model to scale in an anechoic chamber; they had to scale > the frequencies up to match the ship model. And they had an Apple-II > (or was it I?) doing some long calculations. In about 1987 or so, all the 🇳🇿 universities were members of the Apple University Consortium. We decided to put together a report on what people were doing with their respective Apple Mac gear. To try to get a fresh perspective on things, each University sent a person to report on another one. I got sent to Auckland. At the Architecture department, I found a guy using a Macintosh II to collect data on the acoustic characteristics of architectural models. As you say, to get the numbers to come out proportionally right, he had to scale down the wavelengths to match the scale of the model, which meant scaling up the frequencies. And the old IBM PC (AT?) bus of the time simply didn’t have the bandwidth to cope with those high frequencies; but the 32-bit NuBus inside the Mac II could.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c0m0m$3q5il$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". How about “the 1970s”?
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <6cqcnXMuGul9yXn3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94788 |
On 10/29/26 19:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: > >> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". > > How about “the 1970s”? Fair enough. As said, depends on WHERE. Where I was, first saw like a dozen 'public access' terminals in 1978. But you had to be 'authorized' - and for minor users it was just access to a few little databases. Even the 'big iron' (usually medium-iron) of the day couldn't handle TOO much stuff.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 03:58 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <L-GdncvKWuWM03n3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On 10/29/26 13:37, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later >> with terminals as they became available around campus. > > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". Ummmm ... started seeing them in the latter 70s ... at least ones 'regular people' were allowed to use for anything. EXACT date - forget it - depends on where you were. Surely sooner at Princeton than SteerPoke U. Original 'regular people' uses often included the printed library card catalog. Those authorized COULD write programs however. First I saw were hooked to SOME model of DEC iron.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-26 00:57 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) |
| Message-ID | <pLicnUKiRtswQEP3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94654 |
On 10/24/26 08:10, Kenny McCormack wrote: > In article <11bhv61$1bjd2$2@dont-email.me>, > Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote: >>> >>> KSH and BASH are "mostly compatible". Minor diffs but >>> nothing hard to get around. Anything you can do in KSH >>> can be done in BASH. >> >> This is not correct. While Bash has over time adopted quite >> some features from Ksh - but sadly needed often far too many >> years for that - there's still a lot substantial functions >> in Ksh that Bash has not implemented (or substituted by some >> equivalent feature). > > I think you're taking Speedy way too seriously here. All of your points > are valid, of course, but it should not be necessary to respond to the > troll. > > BTW, you assert that there are (many) features of Ksh that are not (yet) > present in bash. I'm not doubting you, but I am curious about examples. > It seems to me that if you assert something like that, you should give > examples. I've mentioned (necessary) "Functional Convergence". If yer shell doesn't do something neat-o some other one does NOW, it WILL soon enough. Might get squeezed-in nice/neat, or maybe NOT. All great/pure ideas/visions eventually HAVE to converge somewhere - or vanish into the historical recycle bin. Anyway, for 'scripts', I'm 99% Python now. Does EVERYTHING and MUCH clearer than any old shell. Of note, did NOT use Python until P3 came out. It seemed interesting/versatile but why learn an obsolete version ? BASIC, skip the bile, became a fair 'script' lang after awhile - but, too clunky IMHO - meant for a different era, different environment, different mindset.
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-24 13:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6adcb580$0$7075$426a74cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #94648 |
Le 24-10-2026, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> a écrit : > On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote: >> Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now - > > Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default. I just keep this because I guess, if I don't consider it to be wrong because I know what it exactly means, I believe it's often a source of confusion. Because it can mean two different things and three different things must be considered when speaking about the default shell. Mostly, BASH is the default for the three things, one of them can be changed effortlessly, one of them would be very difficult to change in the long term and the last one depend on the interaction with others. The first thing is the way by which you interact directly with your SHELL, a kind of REPL. It's just a field in the /etc/passwd file, it's easy to change and if you prefer any SHELL, just install it, change the field and it rocks. It's just a matter of taste, nothing can go wrong by changing it. The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script. This one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And things can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly defined to some specificities expected by the distro. But really, I'm not sure it's a real issue because I'm not sure there are reason to change it. The fact that systemd doesn't need any shell script is a reason why it's nit that important. One can want to change the default provided by the distro, but changing the script shell provided by the distro mean each time an update is done, the changes will be removed. And they will need special care. When there are ways to change the default without changing the scripts provided by the distro. The last one is the shell you choose to write your scripts. It doesn't need to be the same one than the one you are using to interact with your shell. As long as the shebang is correctly defined, it depends more on the people with whom you share it than with any default choice made by any distro. Because people can be more or less comfortable with different specificities, even if they can install any available shell. Unlike the choice of the default bootloader or the choice of the default init system can can have huge impacts, I really don't see how the choice of the default shell by a distro can be important (for the end user because for the contributor, it has some implications). -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-24 21:31 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <skdvqmxgvc.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94657 |
On 2026-10-24 15:41, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: > Le 24-10-2026, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> a écrit : >> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote: >>> Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now - >> >> Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default. > > I just keep this because I guess, if I don't consider it to be wrong > because I know what it exactly means, I believe it's often a source of > confusion. Because it can mean two different things and three different > things must be considered when speaking about the default shell. > > Mostly, BASH is the default for the three things, one of them can be > changed effortlessly, one of them would be very difficult to change in > the long term and the last one depend on the interaction with others. > > The first thing is the way by which you interact directly with your > SHELL, a kind of REPL. It's just a field in the /etc/passwd file, it's > easy to change and if you prefer any SHELL, just install it, change the > field and it rocks. It's just a matter of taste, nothing can go wrong by > changing it. > > The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script. This > one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And things > can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly defined to some > specificities expected by the distro. But really, I'm not sure it's a > real issue because I'm not sure there are reason to change it. The > fact that systemd doesn't need any shell script is a reason why it's nit > that important. One can want to change the default provided by the > distro, but changing the script shell provided by the distro mean each > time an update is done, the changes will be removed. And they will need > special care. When there are ways to change the default without changing > the scripts provided by the distro. I don't see any reason to change the shell used by system scripts. If the shebang is /bin/sh, and bad things happen if you uninstall bash and they are forced to use ksh, well, it is their fault and it is a bug. They should have specified the proper shebang. Just report it. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-24 22:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11bjbu4$340l8$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94657 |
On 24 Oct 2026 13:41:20 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: > The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script. > This one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And > things can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly > defined to some specificities expected by the distro. Debian (and I guess its derivatives as well) long ago moved away from the assumption that “/bin/sh” meant the same thing as “/bin/bash”. They introduced a new, very vanilla, POSIX-compliant shell called dash(1) <https://manpages.debian.org/dash(1)>, which is the shell that is invoked when your script says “/bin/sh”. So if you want bash, you have to explicitly ask for bash.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-25 23:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <YqednV4C15lKUEP3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94648 |
On 10/24/26 05:53, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>
>> KSH and BASH are "mostly compatible". Minor diffs but
>> nothing hard to get around. Anything you can do in KSH
>> can be done in BASH.
>
> This is not correct. While Bash has over time adopted quite
> some features from Ksh - but sadly needed often far too many
> years for that - there's still a lot substantial functions
> in Ksh that Bash has not implemented (or substituted by some
> equivalent feature).
>
>> [...]
>>
>> If KSH works for you then stick with it.
>
> I use Ksh meanwhile for ~35 years, and since I use a lot of
> Ksh features that Bash just doesn't support there's certainly
> no reason to switch. (Also its speed is a criterion, BTW. And
> back then there were no Bash versions on commercial Unixes;
> but commercial Linuxes haven't the prevalence any more today,
> and play no role now in my private systems context.)
>
>> Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now -
>
> Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default.
>
>> so if you plan
>> to 'distribute' your work it'd be better to move your
>> stuff over to BASH.
>
> Certainly not.
>
> And this is short-sighted. If _portability_ is an issue you'd
> better stick with the POSIX subset of both, Ksh and Bash.
>
> (Sadly, as we observe, especially "Linux kiddies" often don't
> know what that POSIX subset actually is; in their scripts they
> are writing #!/bin/sh and using some bash-specific syntax not
> realizing that there's a difference, and that Bash is not the
> [portable] *standard*.)
Delay does not necessarily equate with 'ignorance'.
Different developers ... everyone had their own idea
of a 'perfect shell' - but then had to adapt and adapt
again as the Real Needs became more obvious. Now, most
WILL do the same things - just slightly different syntax.
I rather liked the 'c-shell' long back because it, well,
'looked like C'. It was one of the things that attracted
me to Unix/Linux in the first place. Now I'm happy (ok,
that's not really the word) with BASH. Not much it
can't do ... but the fudged-fudged-fudged syntax to add
features over time CAN be a pain in the ass.
If I want 'scripting' now, I do it with Python. BASH
or whatever, maybe it just EVOKES the Python scripts,
a one or two-liner. Wrote many rather long BASH scripts
in the past, and while they worked they were, well, just
TOO messy/cryptic.
Last big BASH script I did was for backing up a bunch
of on-network drives. Mount-checking (important), calls
to rsync and openSSH and ftp, local AND 'cloud', all
with some confirmation checks along the way. SEMI-repeating
units but each was a bit 'special'.
(ALWAYS pre-encrypt before sending to 'cloud' - I do
NOT trust the providers one bit. Mine had an extension
that 'suggested' some kind of ZIP, just to help them
waste time)
RE-did it in Python. MUCH shorter and more comprehensible
and a nice easy CSV config file you could tweak in a text
editor or spreadsheet. Python made it all BETTER.
Had a 'C' version of that backup pgm earlier. Worked
fine, but there was a lot of string checking/editing
involved and 'C' is CLUNKY with string shit. Python
stole the FORTRAN string-slicing stuff, good deal !
Won't ever use BASH or any other 'shell script' for
that kind of task again. Those might be "trad -IX"
but IMHO they're just OVER. "Solutions" MOVED ON.
>> Most distros, users would have to
>> intentionally install KSH and scripts would need a
>> shebang at the top to specify which shell to use.
>
> I don't recall to have ever "intentionally installed" Ksh on
> Linux. Earlier Linuxes had just a (sub-optimal!) PD-ksh that
> you could use out of the box. Later they provided also the
> much better "original" [AT&T] Ksh, and meanwhile you find on
> (some?) Linuxes ksh93u+m, Martijn Dekker's improved version.
Um ... these days, almost all distros, you do have
to "intentionally install" KSH or any rivals. BASH
rules by default.
> Of course you can call shell scripts with the executable-flag
> set and with a she-bang line on top. Personally I run most
> shell scripts with the interpreter explicitly provided, as in
> ksh my-script flags arguments
> allowing easy debugging by adding '-x' without explicit 'set'
> command in the script. Only if some script gets the status of
> a "standard-command" I regularly use I set the shebang. YMMV.
Direct spec of the shell IS useful, however the
'shebang' trick works well too.
> (So you don't "need" a shebang line, but it's useful.)
>
>> (good practice, always add the shebang)
>
> Yes, if you are running your scripts executable script (or if
> you want to give your editor a hint for syntax highlighting,
> what shell is actually used, or just for specification purpose;
> but note, as said above, that we see many people have no clear
> idea about what a "/bin/sh" is and where /bin/bash or /bin/ksh
> differ from the standard.
I have, I think, FOUR shells on this machine. The
shebang IS required/desired.
Still kinda like 'tcsh', it's there in case I get
a brain-worm and wanna fool around with olde-dayz
stuff. Zsh ain't so bad either.
But, as said, for 'scripting' now, Python is by
far my #1 choice unless the script is like a
simple little ten-liner. Tend to use those on
my PIs.
Fooled around a bit with Lua and Ruby for scripting,
but, really, Python and the MASSIVE number of libs
have them beat. Python will do ANYTHING these days,
just not as fast as 'C'. However CPU speed is less
of a thing these days - I/O ops drag things down
more than the CPU - so Python and 'C' can usually
compete pretty well.
There are Python compilers too. The main issue there
is all the sub-sub-versions of Python, so you always
have to include the entire binaries into each compilation
to ensure it'll work. But then space is also a minor
issue now as well unless you're doing micro-controllers.
Did my share of those - DO teach you how to really SQUEEZE
shit in - all computer kiddies should learn MCs first.
. . .
("Harry talks in his sleep, didn't you notice ?"
Slight telling delay, then Hermonie says 'No' :-)
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