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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 409 — 26 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-21 14:23 +0000
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Page 8 of 21 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 … 21 Next page →
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 23:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nFSBS.93665$Q3f.49772@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #94430 |
On 2026-10-20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old >> Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice >> keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. > > Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I > remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double > the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type. That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqj3uFei39U64@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94434 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 23:18:43 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all > program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code > written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare > keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we > had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached > a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" For better or worse what passed for a computer lab had a number of keypunch machines. The assumption was if you managed to graduate and get a job there would be keypunch operators to punch in from the coding forms. There was a similar assumption that if you reached a level where you were generating memos and so forth real typists do the job. Email was not a glimmer on the horizon.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 03:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <CdWBS.93420$TYg.84924@fx21.iad> |
| In reply to | #94442 |
On 2026-10-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 23:18:43 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all >> program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code >> written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare >> keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we >> had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached >> a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" > > For better or worse what passed for a computer lab had a number of > keypunch machines. The assumption was if you managed to graduate and get a > job there would be keypunch operators to punch in from the coding forms. > There was a similar assumption that if you reached a level where you were > generating memos and so forth real typists do the job. Email was not a > glimmer on the horizon. The keypunches in our student area were almost always busy. However, there were usually one or two that had gotten jammed. I learned how to clear a jam with nothing more than a blank card torn in half lengthwise. I would welcome the sight of a jammed punch because I could quickly clear it and punch my cards without waiting. As a bonus, I left a functioning punch behind when I was done. I found coding forms to be horribly crippling. You'd have to write very slowly and neatly, and write out _everything_. I would scribble my initial draft on the back of an old listing, full of internal shorthand, omitting boilerplate. If I could punch my own cards I would do it right from my chicken tracks, which was _much_ faster than writing it all out longhand. To add insult to injury, the keypunch department didn't verify what they had punched from our forms. Also, the operators weren't used to all the special characters used in source code - heck, some of them could barely handle alphabetics - so they made lots of errors. Punching my own cards was a _big_ win. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqil0Fei39U63@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94430 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 20:08:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old >> Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice >> keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. > > Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I > remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double > the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type. We had one programmer that typed very rapidly. Unfortunately he didn't type very accurately. Unless you're doing SQL, which I equate to shoveling out horse stalls, I'm not sure how much typing speed counts. Okay, I'll add COBOL to SQL for verbosity.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqi9lFei39U62@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94420 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I took French from grades 8 through 12 (standard in Canadian schools). > In university I took two years of German just to have some variety. Well, Canada is more or less bilingual, mostly less in Alberta. I took German in both high school and college. The theory was it might be needed to read technical papers but all the Germans learned English. It does come in handy because Schwedenkrimi sometimes gets translated to German before English and is available on the Kindle. >> The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. > > Who are you calling dummies? I took a typing class in grade 9. > It was just for the hell of it at the time (I was too nerdy to realize > that the class was full of girls), but it turned out to be one of the > best things I ever did. The shop and business students were the Untermenschen in high school. If you whined enough someone on the college entrance track might have been able to take typing but it would definitely be odd. I forget the wpm count but the outstanding typist was Jackie Harris. He brought his lunch to school in a tin lunchbox that was painted like a barn. https://www.ebay.com/itm/257131289573 Today they would put him on a spectrum of some sort but in the early '60s he was just considered strange. I don't think he had any other particular skills other than typing like a madman.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 10:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b9vgg$3p0ft$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94414 |
On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote:
> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin followed
> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish.
> Which would have been more useful in my later life?
>
Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was
fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French
Spanish was not considered important here in Europe.
> The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type.
Likewise
--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"
- John K Galbraith
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 19:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njsgqeF3j5uU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94455 |
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 10:09:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >> followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids >> took Spanish. >> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >> > Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was > fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French > > Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. It was not too useful in that area either. There were Puerto Ricans in New York City and you might see bilingual signs but that was a different world. TV shows that originated in California would make jokes about tacos but we didn't have a clue. Even pizza was something you found in disreputable saloons probably run by the mafia,
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 08:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bccrj$k5sf$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94508 |
On 21/10/2026 20:06, rbowman wrote: > Even pizza was something you found in > disreputable saloons probably run by the mafia, Shoulda stayed that way -- Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get. Mark Twain
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 16:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njut6gFiqckU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94525 |
On Thu, 22 Oct 2026 08:09:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 21/10/2026 20:06, rbowman wrote: >> Even pizza was something you found in disreputable saloons probably run >> by the mafia, > > Shoulda stayed that way I eat it about once a year and I've had my ration for this year. Searching among the boxes I took a slice that I couldn't readily identify. It was blue cheese and onions. That was, um, different. A friend who went to Norway came back with the impression they live on frozen pizza.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 12:35 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <bg5pqmx2c5.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94455 |
On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin followed >> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. >> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >> > Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was > fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French > > Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which again were isolationist. It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > >> The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. > > Likewise > -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 07:18 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <7IicnQgrMqq3bET3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94536 |
On 10/22/26 06:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>> followed >>> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. >>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>> >> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >> >> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. > > > That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was > started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which > again were isolationist. > > It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish.
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 13:44 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <11bcsur$q5ng$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94540 |
On 22/10/2026 13:18, c186282 wrote: > Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass > quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA > if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish. And Mexico (North America) ;-). -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 15:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bd8bq$u5du$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94542 |
On 22/10/2026 12:44, John Bokma wrote: > On 22/10/2026 13:18, c186282 wrote: > >> Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass >> quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA >> if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish. > > And Mexico (North America) ;-). > Central (or Meso) America -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki"
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 13:48 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <2p9pqmxfjm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94540 |
On 2026-10-22 13:18, c186282 wrote: > On 10/22/26 06:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>>> followed >>>> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took >>>> Spanish. >>>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>>> >>> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >>> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >>> >>> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. >> >> >> That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was >> started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, >> which again were isolationist. >> >> It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > > Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass > quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA > if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish. > No, I'm not forgetting, I'm simply talking about the claim that in Europe Spanish was not considered important, some decades ago. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 15:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bd8au$u5du$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94540 |
On 22/10/2026 12:18, c186282 wrote: > On 10/22/26 06:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >>> >>> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. >> >> >> That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was >> started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, >> which again were isolationist. >> >> It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > > Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass > quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA > if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish. Last time I looked south and central America were not part of Europe. Even KingDonald hasnt gone that dumb -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki"
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 15:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bd86o$u5du$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94536 |
On 22/10/2026 11:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>> followed >>> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. >>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>> >> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >> >> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. > > > That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was > started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which > again were isolationist. > > It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > It is a great shame, Spanish and Italian are quite beautiful languages Germanics are the ugly ones. Dutch Flemish, German -- Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is that they are dead. Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 17:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njv0qmFiqckU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94536 |
On Thu, 22 Oct 2026 12:35:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>> followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids >>> took Spanish. >>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>> >> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >> >> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. > > > That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was > started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which > again were isolationist. > > It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". The situation is different in the western hemisphere. Other than the US, Canada, and Brazil most of the people speak some flavor of Spanish. Even in the US many hable Espano, although it's regional. I was amused when the library had a sign on the information desk 'preguntas'.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 20:04 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <arvpqmxagr.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94568 |
On 2026-10-22 19:52, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 22 Oct 2026 12:35:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>>> followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids >>>> took Spanish. >>>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>>> >>> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >>> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >>> >>> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. >> >> >> That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was >> started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which >> again were isolationist. >> >> It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > > The situation is different in the western hemisphere. Other than the US, > Canada, and Brazil most of the people speak some flavor of Spanish. Even > in the US many hable Espano, although it's regional. I was amused when the > library had a sign on the information desk 'preguntas'. Yes, I know that the situation was and is different in the american continent. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <piqcqmxlgi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93868 |
On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>> is very little science in engineering. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >> >> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >> > That is of course bollocks > No engineer would have written that > > A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five > bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) > >> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using scientific principles" > > Again its bollocks. > > "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, > engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges > using *whatever systems work* in the context. > > Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill for > grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its design Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b27g5$11pis$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94045 |
On 17/10/2026 19:15, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>>> is very little science in engineering. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >>> >>> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >>> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >>> >> That is of course bollocks >> No engineer would have written that >> >> A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five >> bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) >> >>> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >>> >>> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >>> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or >>> bridges >>> using scientific principles" >> >> Again its bollocks. >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using *whatever systems work* in the context. >> >> Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill >> for grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its >> design > > Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear > reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. > That is called 'experience' and is what you learnt as a midshipman > It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. > Of course it is. An experience sailor could look at a ship and say 'that's too much sail for this wind' and if he didnt have a naval crew, but merely a commercial one, he'd take in a few reefs. If you have the crew, you can do that pretty much right up to the point the ship is in danger of keeling over You have been too exposed to modern techno myth that it's all science and maths. It isn't, and the further back you go the less it was, right back to using a branch to roll over a rock, or chipping a stone to make an axe. Some tribes still existing do not have words for number at all. One. Many? Others do not have words for distance. When all you can see is the rain forest 5 feet away, there isn't much call for it. Technology and the art of making it is the history of thousands of years of trial and error, with the 'right way' a closely guarded secret held by closed guilds. The modern affectation that it's 'applied science' is just stupid people saying stupid things, trying to elevate science above its correct position -- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H.L.Mencken
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