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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 365 — 26 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:51 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200
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Page 6 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 4 5 [6] 7 8 … 19 Next page →
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 21:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <chrkqmxhtm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94398 |
On 2026-10-20 15:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very >> very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or > more fixed notes Certainly, but they had a certain separation between them and not another. They knew. It was not random. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 02:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqn5cFei39U68@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94425 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 21:20:44 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-20 15:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very >>> very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? >> >> Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or >> more fixed notes > > Certainly, but they had a certain separation between them and not > another. They knew. It was not random. With Native American simple system flutes it was the width of a thumb, the thumb belonging to whoever made the flute. The holes were the same size. I've made some passable PVC Irish flutes. It's a bit more complicated. https://www.anycalculator.com/pvcpipeflute.html I don't even want to think about how much experimentation went into developing a Boehm system flute.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 18:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njpq23Fei39U60@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94390 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 10:51:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-20 00:09, John Ames wrote: >> On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 11:48:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher >> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > >>>> The chinese Classic of Music dates back to about 3000 years ago and >>>> the Pythagorean school is not that far behind, but ok. >>> >>> 'music theory' *as we know it today * has only existed a couple of >>> hundred years >> >> You yourself started off this discussion talking about "music existing >> ten thousand years before music theory," so grouping classical Chinese >> and Pythagorean thought in with post-Renaissance Western theory is as >> fair as anything. They didn't have *any* of those in the Paleolithic. > > How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very very > long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th centuries. > > They had to know some theory. What theory did the East Asians use?
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 11:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20261020114638.00005968@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #94415 |
On 20 Oct 2026 18:26:11 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > > How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very > > very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > > > Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th > > centuries. > > > > They had to know some theory. > > What theory did the East Asians use? Per a brief survey of Wikipedia, the particulars are unclear (the oldest indicated text, the Classic of Music, was probably lost in Qin Shi Huang's Ye Olde Cultural Revolution, though fragments have been preserved in later works,) but the guqin goes back a good 3000 years, and uses a scale based on the harmonic series - something akin to Pythagorean tuning, if I'm understanding correctly.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqkg0Fei39U65@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94417 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 11:46:38 -0700, John Ames wrote: > Per a brief survey of Wikipedia, the particulars are unclear (the oldest > indicated text, the Classic of Music, was probably lost in Qin Shi > Huang's Ye Olde Cultural Revolution, though fragments have been > preserved in later works,) but the guqin goes back a good 3000 years, > and uses a scale based on the harmonic series - something akin to > Pythagorean tuning, if I'm understanding correctly. https://www.masterthescore.com/article/japanese-scales South Asia has its own ideas too. https://anupamagagneja.com/2021/12/23/thaat/
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18e053d265099af4$3505$1722273$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94390 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 10:51:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > > Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th centuries. > Ha, ha, ha, ha! Google says "jump off a cliff." Will you do it? Ask Google about the "Pythagorean comma." <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma> The Pythagorean comma, as well as the tetrachords of Aristoxenus, extends Western music theory back to at least 300 B.C.E. But my knowledge of this area is limited and the origin may even be earlier. Of course, the rustics, then as now, continued to dance in the barnyard while animated by their pentatonic flutes, but civilized peoples developed a theory of music at the very beginning of civilization.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <etmeqmxr7l.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94091 |
On 2026-10-18 00:50, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> I saw an harmonium in a church in which the entire keyboard could be >> raised and moved left or right. > > Cool - the great-grandaddy of the pitch bend wheel. :-) > I think I have seen that but did not know what it was! Searching... well, kind of. This is not continuous, it is in half note steps, and semi permanent, not to be used in the middle of a song. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b6h8p$2jehe$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93875 |
On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 15:05:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: [...] >>> Some of us don't have _that_ much time on our hands. >> >> Perhaps some of us aren't as smart as we like to think we are. > > Are we all sure that the kid that tinkers with computers after school is > "smarter" than the kid who spends his spare time chasing girls? :-D All I know is that Feynman made it quite clear that, had he had done that, he'd have studied Portuguese instead of Spanish, which would later have proven useful for his visit to Brasil. (Not that he wasn't able to handle it, he was, leading to that memorable scene at the academy of sciences...) -- Nuno Silva
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 18:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njppdbFei39U59@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94373 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 02:48:09 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 15:05:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > [...] >>>> Some of us don't have _that_ much time on our hands. >>> >>> Perhaps some of us aren't as smart as we like to think we are. >> >> Are we all sure that the kid that tinkers with computers after school >> is "smarter" than the kid who spends his spare time chasing girls? :-D > > All I know is that Feynman made it quite clear that, had he had done > that, > he'd have studied Portuguese instead of Spanish, which would later have > proven useful for his visit to Brasil. In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. Which would have been more useful in my later life? The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <qXOBS.7014$5Iy.3457@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #94414 |
On 2026-10-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin followed > by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. > Which would have been more useful in my later life? I took French from grades 8 through 12 (standard in Canadian schools). In university I took two years of German just to have some variety. I think it's good to learn other languages, even if you never get to the point were you can carry on a conversation. It exposes you to different concepts, stretching your mind a little (plus you don't have to turn the cereal box over if you happen to pick up the French side). Words in one language don't necessarily mean exactly the same as the nearest equivalent in another; it's sort of like the way the inch and centimeter marks don't line up on a ruler. This means that subtle gradations can be different from one language to another. And then there are the adjustments an English speaker has to make to handle the Spanish verb "gustar"... I suppose the differences must be even grater when going to, say, Indian or oriental languages. > The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. Who are you calling dummies? I took a typing class in grade 9. It was just for the hell of it at the time (I was too nerdy to realize that the class was full of girls), but it turned out to be one of the best things I ever did. I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 21:27 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <durkqmxtdo.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94420 |
On 2026-10-20 21:04, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >> The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. > > Who are you calling dummies? I took a typing class in grade 9. > It was just for the hell of it at the time (I was too nerdy to > realize that the class was full of girls), but it turned out > to be one of the best things I ever did. I worked my way up > to 45 words per minute on one of those big old Underwood manuals. > And then I got into computers and really nice keyboards - I do > 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. I did not go to a formal class, but my father taught me how to do it. One year in high school, the teacher said she would dictate the Philosophy notes. No book. My handwriting at speed is awful, so each afternoon I typed my notes. So I can almost touch type, which has helped me all my life, even this instant. Professionally and leisure (the last word does not feel correct...) -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 20:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b8ho1$3b48o$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94420 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old > Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice > keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 23:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nFSBS.93665$Q3f.49772@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #94430 |
On 2026-10-20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old >> Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice >> keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. > > Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I > remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double > the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type. That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqj3uFei39U64@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94434 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 23:18:43 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all > program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code > written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare > keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we > had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached > a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" For better or worse what passed for a computer lab had a number of keypunch machines. The assumption was if you managed to graduate and get a job there would be keypunch operators to punch in from the coding forms. There was a similar assumption that if you reached a level where you were generating memos and so forth real typists do the job. Email was not a glimmer on the horizon.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 03:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <CdWBS.93420$TYg.84924@fx21.iad> |
| In reply to | #94442 |
On 2026-10-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 23:18:43 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all >> program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code >> written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare >> keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we >> had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached >> a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" > > For better or worse what passed for a computer lab had a number of > keypunch machines. The assumption was if you managed to graduate and get a > job there would be keypunch operators to punch in from the coding forms. > There was a similar assumption that if you reached a level where you were > generating memos and so forth real typists do the job. Email was not a > glimmer on the horizon. The keypunches in our student area were almost always busy. However, there were usually one or two that had gotten jammed. I learned how to clear a jam with nothing more than a blank card torn in half lengthwise. I would welcome the sight of a jammed punch because I could quickly clear it and punch my cards without waiting. As a bonus, I left a functioning punch behind when I was done. I found coding forms to be horribly crippling. You'd have to write very slowly and neatly, and write out _everything_. I would scribble my initial draft on the back of an old listing, full of internal shorthand, omitting boilerplate. If I could punch my own cards I would do it right from my chicken tracks, which was _much_ faster than writing it all out longhand. To add insult to injury, the keypunch department didn't verify what they had punched from our forms. Also, the operators weren't used to all the special characters used in source code - heck, some of them could barely handle alphabetics - so they made lots of errors. Punching my own cards was a _big_ win. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqil0Fei39U63@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94430 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 20:08:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old >> Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice >> keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. > > Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I > remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double > the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type. We had one programmer that typed very rapidly. Unfortunately he didn't type very accurately. Unless you're doing SQL, which I equate to shoveling out horse stalls, I'm not sure how much typing speed counts. Okay, I'll add COBOL to SQL for verbosity.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqi9lFei39U62@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94420 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I took French from grades 8 through 12 (standard in Canadian schools). > In university I took two years of German just to have some variety. Well, Canada is more or less bilingual, mostly less in Alberta. I took German in both high school and college. The theory was it might be needed to read technical papers but all the Germans learned English. It does come in handy because Schwedenkrimi sometimes gets translated to German before English and is available on the Kindle. >> The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. > > Who are you calling dummies? I took a typing class in grade 9. > It was just for the hell of it at the time (I was too nerdy to realize > that the class was full of girls), but it turned out to be one of the > best things I ever did. The shop and business students were the Untermenschen in high school. If you whined enough someone on the college entrance track might have been able to take typing but it would definitely be odd. I forget the wpm count but the outstanding typist was Jackie Harris. He brought his lunch to school in a tin lunchbox that was painted like a barn. https://www.ebay.com/itm/257131289573 Today they would put him on a spectrum of some sort but in the early '60s he was just considered strange. I don't think he had any other particular skills other than typing like a madman.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <piqcqmxlgi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93868 |
On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>> is very little science in engineering. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >> >> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >> > That is of course bollocks > No engineer would have written that > > A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five > bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) > >> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using scientific principles" > > Again its bollocks. > > "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, > engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges > using *whatever systems work* in the context. > > Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill for > grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its design Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b27g5$11pis$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94045 |
On 17/10/2026 19:15, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>>> is very little science in engineering. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >>> >>> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >>> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >>> >> That is of course bollocks >> No engineer would have written that >> >> A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five >> bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) >> >>> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >>> >>> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >>> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or >>> bridges >>> using scientific principles" >> >> Again its bollocks. >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using *whatever systems work* in the context. >> >> Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill >> for grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its >> design > > Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear > reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. > That is called 'experience' and is what you learnt as a midshipman > It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. > Of course it is. An experience sailor could look at a ship and say 'that's too much sail for this wind' and if he didnt have a naval crew, but merely a commercial one, he'd take in a few reefs. If you have the crew, you can do that pretty much right up to the point the ship is in danger of keeling over You have been too exposed to modern techno myth that it's all science and maths. It isn't, and the further back you go the less it was, right back to using a branch to roll over a rock, or chipping a stone to make an axe. Some tribes still existing do not have words for number at all. One. Many? Others do not have words for distance. When all you can see is the rain forest 5 feet away, there isn't much call for it. Technology and the art of making it is the history of thousands of years of trial and error, with the 'right way' a closely guarded secret held by closed guilds. The modern affectation that it's 'applied science' is just stupid people saying stupid things, trying to elevate science above its correct position -- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H.L.Mencken
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 16:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b5bmv$25961$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93857 |
On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> ABS (soon: inertial ABS and other ADAS) is mandatory in pretty much all >>> first world countries, and I'm sure there was a few PhDs attached to >>> the project at Bosch, from R&D to market. >>> >> WERE a few phDs. > > You're right to correct my grammar. > English being my third language I sometimes get sloppy... --------------------------------------------------^^^^^^ I understand it's the non-AI kind of slop, but you may still want to reword that :-P -- Nuno Silva
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