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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 372 — 26 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:51 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:15 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:20 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 02:42 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:27 +0200
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| From | Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b9vno$3o235$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94409 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 10:54:04 -0700, John Ames wrote: > I don't have to "believe" anything here; the fact that mathematics is > innately complete and inherent to reality is self-demonstrating, as any > child who's ever learned to count should know. Have two, get two, have > four - that's addition, and it was so before the very first hominid who > stopped to *think* about the number of tasty bits of fruit and game in > his private cache. Then again, it's self evident that the inner angles of a triangle always sum up to a straight angle. Any child who has tried to cut a triangle out of a sheet of paper, and then cut the angles and lay them adjacent to one another should know. A more adventurous child might have tried to do that with a triangle drawn on an orange, or a balloon... and found out they don't necessarily add up :-) That child would have then found out the need to systematise geometry and distinguish between Euclidean and non-Euclidean geometries with their axioms and rules of inference... :-)
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 10:51 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <blmjqmx0ds.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94366 |
On 2026-10-20 00:09, John Ames wrote: > On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 11:48:59 +0100 > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>> The chinese Classic of Music dates back to about 3000 years ago and >>> the Pythagorean school is not that far behind, but ok. >> >> 'music theory' *as we know it today * has only existed a couple of >> hundred years > > You yourself started off this discussion talking about "music existing > ten thousand years before music theory," so grouping classical Chinese > and Pythagorean thought in with post-Renaissance Western theory is as > fair as anything. They didn't have *any* of those in the Paleolithic. How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th centuries. They had to know some theory. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 14:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b7pnp$305dq$11@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94390 |
On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: > How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very very > long ago? before the theory was developed formally? Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or more fixed notes -- “It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into, we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a power-directed system of thought.” Sir Roger Scruton
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tXOBS.7017$5Iy.1059@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #94398 |
On 2026-10-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very very >> long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or > more fixed notes And those fixed notes tend to have fixed relationships between them (e.g. harmonics). -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 10:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b9vr7$3p0ft$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94422 |
On 20/10/2026 20:04, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> >>> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very very >>> long ago? before the theory was developed formally? >> >> Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or >> more fixed notes > > And those fixed notes tend to have fixed relationships between them > (e.g. harmonics). > No, they dont. On multi-fixed pitch like say pan pipes or an ocarina, they are made to have that relationship because its sounds 'better', in a way that no one can really explain, to random spacings Possibly the theory of intermodulation distortion can say why, but no music theory can. -- “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.” Herbert Spencer
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 21:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <chrkqmxhtm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94398 |
On 2026-10-20 15:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very >> very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or > more fixed notes Certainly, but they had a certain separation between them and not another. They knew. It was not random. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 02:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqn5cFei39U68@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94425 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 21:20:44 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-20 15:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very >>> very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? >> >> Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or >> more fixed notes > > Certainly, but they had a certain separation between them and not > another. They knew. It was not random. With Native American simple system flutes it was the width of a thumb, the thumb belonging to whoever made the flute. The holes were the same size. I've made some passable PVC Irish flutes. It's a bit more complicated. https://www.anycalculator.com/pvcpipeflute.html I don't even want to think about how much experimentation went into developing a Boehm system flute.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 10:16 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b9vt7$3p0ft$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94425 |
On 20/10/2026 20:20, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-20 15:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 09:51, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very >>> very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? >> >> Because it is in the nature of musical instruments to produce one or >> more fixed notes > > Certainly, but they had a certain separation between them and not > another. They knew. It was not random. > Exactly, And they knew without any theory at all, It just 'sounded right' in some indefinable way -- “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.” Herbert Spencer
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 18:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njpq23Fei39U60@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94390 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 10:51:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-20 00:09, John Ames wrote: >> On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 11:48:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher >> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > >>>> The chinese Classic of Music dates back to about 3000 years ago and >>>> the Pythagorean school is not that far behind, but ok. >>> >>> 'music theory' *as we know it today * has only existed a couple of >>> hundred years >> >> You yourself started off this discussion talking about "music existing >> ten thousand years before music theory," so grouping classical Chinese >> and Pythagorean thought in with post-Renaissance Western theory is as >> fair as anything. They didn't have *any* of those in the Paleolithic. > > How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very very > long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th centuries. > > They had to know some theory. What theory did the East Asians use?
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 11:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20261020114638.00005968@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #94415 |
On 20 Oct 2026 18:26:11 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > > How come the instruments have fixed notes, and these appeared very > > very long ago? before the theory was developed formally? > > > > Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th > > centuries. > > > > They had to know some theory. > > What theory did the East Asians use? Per a brief survey of Wikipedia, the particulars are unclear (the oldest indicated text, the Classic of Music, was probably lost in Qin Shi Huang's Ye Olde Cultural Revolution, though fragments have been preserved in later works,) but the guqin goes back a good 3000 years, and uses a scale based on the harmonic series - something akin to Pythagorean tuning, if I'm understanding correctly.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqkg0Fei39U65@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94417 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 11:46:38 -0700, John Ames wrote: > Per a brief survey of Wikipedia, the particulars are unclear (the oldest > indicated text, the Classic of Music, was probably lost in Qin Shi > Huang's Ye Olde Cultural Revolution, though fragments have been > preserved in later works,) but the guqin goes back a good 3000 years, > and uses a scale based on the harmonic series - something akin to > Pythagorean tuning, if I'm understanding correctly. https://www.masterthescore.com/article/japanese-scales South Asia has its own ideas too. https://anupamagagneja.com/2021/12/23/thaat/
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18e053d265099af4$3505$1722273$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94390 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 10:51:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > > Google says the western notes appeared between 6th and 11th centuries. > Ha, ha, ha, ha! Google says "jump off a cliff." Will you do it? Ask Google about the "Pythagorean comma." <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma> The Pythagorean comma, as well as the tetrachords of Aristoxenus, extends Western music theory back to at least 300 B.C.E. But my knowledge of this area is limited and the origin may even be earlier. Of course, the rustics, then as now, continued to dance in the barnyard while animated by their pentatonic flutes, but civilized peoples developed a theory of music at the very beginning of civilization.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <etmeqmxr7l.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94091 |
On 2026-10-18 00:50, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> I saw an harmonium in a church in which the entire keyboard could be >> raised and moved left or right. > > Cool - the great-grandaddy of the pitch bend wheel. :-) > I think I have seen that but did not know what it was! Searching... well, kind of. This is not continuous, it is in half note steps, and semi permanent, not to be used in the middle of a song. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b6h8p$2jehe$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93875 |
On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 15:05:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: [...] >>> Some of us don't have _that_ much time on our hands. >> >> Perhaps some of us aren't as smart as we like to think we are. > > Are we all sure that the kid that tinkers with computers after school is > "smarter" than the kid who spends his spare time chasing girls? :-D All I know is that Feynman made it quite clear that, had he had done that, he'd have studied Portuguese instead of Spanish, which would later have proven useful for his visit to Brasil. (Not that he wasn't able to handle it, he was, leading to that memorable scene at the academy of sciences...) -- Nuno Silva
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 18:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njppdbFei39U59@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94373 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 02:48:09 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 15:05:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > [...] >>>> Some of us don't have _that_ much time on our hands. >>> >>> Perhaps some of us aren't as smart as we like to think we are. >> >> Are we all sure that the kid that tinkers with computers after school >> is "smarter" than the kid who spends his spare time chasing girls? :-D > > All I know is that Feynman made it quite clear that, had he had done > that, > he'd have studied Portuguese instead of Spanish, which would later have > proven useful for his visit to Brasil. In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. Which would have been more useful in my later life? The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <qXOBS.7014$5Iy.3457@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #94414 |
On 2026-10-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin followed > by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. > Which would have been more useful in my later life? I took French from grades 8 through 12 (standard in Canadian schools). In university I took two years of German just to have some variety. I think it's good to learn other languages, even if you never get to the point were you can carry on a conversation. It exposes you to different concepts, stretching your mind a little (plus you don't have to turn the cereal box over if you happen to pick up the French side). Words in one language don't necessarily mean exactly the same as the nearest equivalent in another; it's sort of like the way the inch and centimeter marks don't line up on a ruler. This means that subtle gradations can be different from one language to another. And then there are the adjustments an English speaker has to make to handle the Spanish verb "gustar"... I suppose the differences must be even grater when going to, say, Indian or oriental languages. > The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. Who are you calling dummies? I took a typing class in grade 9. It was just for the hell of it at the time (I was too nerdy to realize that the class was full of girls), but it turned out to be one of the best things I ever did. I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 21:27 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <durkqmxtdo.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94420 |
On 2026-10-20 21:04, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >> The dummies also took typing. I still can't touch type. > > Who are you calling dummies? I took a typing class in grade 9. > It was just for the hell of it at the time (I was too nerdy to > realize that the class was full of girls), but it turned out > to be one of the best things I ever did. I worked my way up > to 45 words per minute on one of those big old Underwood manuals. > And then I got into computers and really nice keyboards - I do > 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. I did not go to a formal class, but my father taught me how to do it. One year in high school, the teacher said she would dictate the Philosophy notes. No book. My handwriting at speed is awful, so each afternoon I typed my notes. So I can almost touch type, which has helped me all my life, even this instant. Professionally and leisure (the last word does not feel correct...) -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 20:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b8ho1$3b48o$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94420 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old > Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice > keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-20 23:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nFSBS.93665$Q3f.49772@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #94430 |
On 2026-10-20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 19:04:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I worked my way up to 45 words per minute on one of those big old >> Underwood manuals. And then I got into computers and really nice >> keyboards - I do 75 wpm now, which is great for productivity. > > Back in the days when the “software crisis” was still a thing, I > remember a quote from someone who said that the quickest way to double > the productivity of your programmers was to teach them how to type. That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-21 01:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njqj3uFei39U64@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94434 |
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 23:18:43 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > That's great if your manager wasn't a martinet who insisted that all > program code shall be punched by the keypunch department from code > written on official coding forms. If you were lucky there was a spare > keypunch you could use when no one was looking. Otherwise... well, we > had one of those little punches that did one hole at a time. I attached > a sign to it saying, "Programmers have priority on this punch!" For better or worse what passed for a computer lab had a number of keypunch machines. The assumption was if you managed to graduate and get a job there would be keypunch operators to punch in from the coding forms. There was a similar assumption that if you reached a level where you were generating memos and so forth real typists do the job. Email was not a glimmer on the horizon.
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