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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93881 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 15:45 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 20:40 +0100 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 49 — 13 participants |
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The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 15:45 +0000
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-10-16 16:56 +0100
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 17:08 +0000
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-10-16 19:13 +0000
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 13:29 +0000
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-17 13:51 +0000
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 14:19 +0000
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 19:37 +0200
Re: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:25 +0100
Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-18 11:57 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:20 +0200
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:31 +0200
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:35 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 18:45 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-19 00:57 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-10-19 09:26 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:11 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:38 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 03:52 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-19 03:56 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 05:58 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 02:49 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:15 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-19 00:44 -0400
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:38 +0200
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:26 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 18:59 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 18:55 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:05 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:41 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2026-10-19 00:15 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:02 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 02:42 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:21 +0100
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:04 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-18 14:07 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-10-18 11:45 -0700
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-18 19:27 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 02:30 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:06 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:05 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-18 19:32 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-18 19:37 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 02:20 +0000
Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:40 +0100
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:45 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <11b3451$1d9sl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94198 |
On 10/18/2026 07:07, Leroy H wrote: >[...] > Then there is the issue of manufacturing. Converting a large industrial base, > such as in the US, willy-nilly to SI units is a very expensive undertaking. On the other hand, NOT joining the world standards has its own cost. Back in the 1980s, at a PPOE, we licensed a design for an electronic device. Having been designed in Scotland, of course all mechanical dimensions were given in millimeters. An older manufacturing manager wanted it "Americanized" and directed a summer intern to convert all dimensions to "traditional" measures. The kid got out a calculator and converted all measurements to inches with 3 decimals. When they took it to the metal shop, the shop foreman asked if they really needed the dimensions exact to 0.001" ? No, of course not, that would be way too expensive. So the old guy replaced all the measurements to fractional inches instead. The resulting product never worked right, but had bad fits between the PCBs and the card cage, betwwen the chassis frame and the side, top and bottom panels, and felt warped when customers tried to mount it in a rack. Of course, it was all stupid. The machine shop where they built it had mostly Japanese machinery, which could do inces or millimeters at the flick of a switch. > For example, virtually all lumber products in the US are cut to Imperial > dimensions. The ubiquitous "stud," which is universal in construction, is > still the "2 by 4" being 2 inches by 4 inches by 8 feet. I highly doubt > that any lumber product is cut to SI dimensions. The saw mills are too old > to easily change, and the wood worker is too conditioned to think differently. Your example is a little odd, because a "2 by 4" is NOT 2 inches by 4 inches and has not been for decades. A standard 2x4 lumber has actual dimensions of 1.5 inches thick by 3.5 inches wide (38 mm × 89 mm). This principle applies to other dimensional lumber as well, such as 2x6, 2x8, and 4x4, where the actual dimensions are slightly smaller than the nominal size to account for finishing processes. > Also, most raw materials such as pipes, tubing, and other parts are still > produced in Imperial units because most everything classified as buildings > or infrastructure was built according to Imperial specs. > > It will be a LONG, LONG TIME before US society becomes exclusively metric. Jimmy Carter started, but Reagan reversed the process. -- Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 19:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <18dfb65996728c15$2363$2483150$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94208 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 11:45:50 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote: > > Your example is a little odd, because a "2 by 4" is NOT 2 inches by 4 > inches and has not been for decades. > > A standard 2x4 lumber has actual dimensions of 1.5 inches thick by 3.5 > inches wide (38 mm × 89 mm). > The cutting dimensions at the saw mill are 2" X 4". After cutting, however, the lumber is dried in kilns which shrinks the dimensions. But the size of the lumber throughout the distribution chain is always based on the original saw mill cutting dimensions. One never walks into a lumber yard and asks for a "1.5 X 3.5." It is always "2 X 4." The same applies to all other lumber products. It is a peculiar system but one gets used to it. >> >> It will be a LONG, LONG TIME before US society becomes exclusively metric. > > Jimmy Carter started, but Reagan reversed the process. > What I find somewhat amusing is that, like most other DIY people, I was forced to purchase a set of metric sockets (at great expense). Each socket is forged on one end to be a specific metric size (e.g. 10mm) but the reverse end, where the shaft of the socket wrench attaches, is forged to an Imperial unit (e.g. 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch). The tools are actually a hybrid. If a society is forced to go metric it should go metric all the way.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 02:30 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <njldmkFei39U43@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94220 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 19:27:52 +0000, Leroy H wrote: > What I find somewhat amusing is that, like most other DIY people, I was > forced to purchase a set of metric sockets (at great expense). > > Each socket is forged on one end to be a specific metric size (e.g. > 10mm) > but the reverse end, where the shaft of the socket wrench attaches, is > forged to an Imperial unit (e.g. 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch). I've got a couple of sets of metric sockets but I don't recall either being at great expense. What I find annoying is the number of metric and SAE sockets that are almost but not quite the same dimension. That's a real joy when you're working on a US vehicle that mixed and matched. Then there was Harley when they went to Torx fasteners. Most of the early Torx sets went T20, T25, T30 etc. Harley threw a few T27s in at odd places. A T25 almost works before it strips out the head.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 02:06 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second ...) |
| Message-ID | <11b3tvm$1lgro$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94208 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 11:45:50 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote: > On the other hand, NOT joining the world standards has its own cost. One odd thing is, most of the countries in the world use Imperial units for air traffic control. That is, heights are given in feet, even across Europe and other metric-using countries. (Not sure about speeds.) That is, with two exceptions: Russia and China. Fly over those countries, and they give heights in metres. Do you think this causes confusion, and possible risk of getting things wrong? I don’t think so. The safety margins are routinely on the order of distances measured in large fractions of kilometres (or miles, if you prefer). So a rounding error here or there won’t really make much difference.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 19:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <njkjkcFei39U31@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94198 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 14:07:31 +0000, Leroy H wrote: > For example, virtually all lumber products in the US are cut to Imperial > dimensions. The ubiquitous "stud," which is universal in construction, > is still the "2 by 4" being 2 inches by 4 inches by 8 feet. I highly > doubt that any lumber product is cut to SI dimensions. The saw mills > are too old to easily change, and the wood worker is too conditioned to > think differently. Obviously you haven't bought a 2 by 4 lately.
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 19:32 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <18dfb69ff983b00f$2364$2483150$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94214 |
On 18 Oct 2026 19:05:48 GMT, rbowman wrote: > > Obviously you haven't bought a 2 by 4 lately. > That's all one *can* buy. Trying walking into a lumber yard and asking for a 1.5 x 3.5. The sales clerks will call 9-1-1.
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| From | gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 19:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <11b3759$11c73$1@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #94223 |
In article <18dfb69ff983b00f$2364$2483150$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote: >On 18 Oct 2026 19:05:48 GMT, rbowman wrote: > >> >> Obviously you haven't bought a 2 by 4 lately. >> > >That's all one *can* buy. > >Trying walking into a lumber yard and asking for >a 1.5 x 3.5. The sales clerks will call 9-1-1. Well. I'm going to have to try that sometime. -- The plural of "anecdote" is _not_ "data".
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 02:20 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <njld3bFei39U42@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94223 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 19:32:54 +0000, Leroy H wrote: > On 18 Oct 2026 19:05:48 GMT, rbowman wrote: > > >> Obviously you haven't bought a 2 by 4 lately. >> >> > That's all one *can* buy. > > Trying walking into a lumber yard and asking for a 1.5 x 3.5. The sales > clerks will call 9-1-1. You also have to be careful if you want something 8' long. Many are precut to 92 5/8" to allow for the top and bottom plates.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 20:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Metric vs. US/Imperial (Was: The Leap Second is Dead. How Will GNU/Linux Cope?) |
| Message-ID | <11b37c5$1dsuc$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94214 |
On 18/10/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote: > On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 14:07:31 +0000, Leroy H wrote: > >> For example, virtually all lumber products in the US are cut to Imperial >> dimensions. The ubiquitous "stud," which is universal in construction, >> is still the "2 by 4" being 2 inches by 4 inches by 8 feet. I highly >> doubt that any lumber product is cut to SI dimensions. The saw mills >> are too old to easily change, and the wood worker is too conditioned to >> think differently. > > Obviously you haven't bought a 2 by 4 lately. In the UK they are 2x4 but they call it 100mm x 50mm Planed All Round (PAR) so its actually about 40mm x 80mm It is exactly the same wood that used to be 2x4. But its had the SI gender chagne applied -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain
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