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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93752 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Martin Davies-Roundhill <enduphere.xyz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-15 14:52 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-16 18:21 +0000 |
| Articles | 8 on this page of 48 — 11 participants |
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Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Martin Davies-Roundhill <enduphere.xyz@gmail.com> - 2026-10-15 14:52 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-15 07:57 -0700
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:33 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:40 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-15 17:01 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2026-10-15 17:29 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:27 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-15 18:47 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-15 19:40 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-15 23:35 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 01:41 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:47 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:40 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 23:17 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 02:53 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:46 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 07:58 -0700
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 15:59 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 18:46 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:32 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 19:41 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:26 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 22:40 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 23:11 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:06 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:46 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 12:24 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:31 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 18:46 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:35 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 19:43 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:34 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-16 22:47 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 02:40 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 12:33 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 12:04 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 13:40 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 11:56 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 13:59 +0200
Programming Books (was Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?) John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0200
Re: Programming Books (was Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 18:26 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:45 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:56 +0200
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:38 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:19 +0000
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 17:09 +0100
Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 18:21 +0000
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 15:01 +0200 |
| Subject | Programming Books (was Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?) |
| Message-ID | <11avrj6$74f0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94014 |
On 17/10/2026 13:59, John Bokma wrote: > On 17/10/2026 13:56, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: >> Le 17-10-2026, John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> a écrit : >>> On 17/10/2026 04:40, rbowman wrote: >>>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 22:47:04 +0200, John Bokma wrote: >>>> >>>>> stop! No. You can check tumblelog (see sig). It has a Perl and a >>>>> Python >>>>> version and I consider them both quite readable. >>>> >>>> Perl can be readable. Many times it isn't. >>> >>> That has to do a lot with the programmer. I learned Perl with the purple >>> O'Reilly "Programming Perl" book (and later the blue one) and the >>> (excellent) documentation. >> >> What about Higher-Order Perl? > > Sure, another book I can highly recommend. And the Perl Cookbook. Another two books I can highly recommend, Python this time: Fluent Python (2nd edition) - Luciano Ramalho Effective Python (3rd edition) - Brett Slatkin Both are *not* beginners books but if you already know some Python and want to improve your skills. -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 18:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Programming Books (was Re: Personal agents on Linux: what should stay under the user's control?) |
| Message-ID | <njhsucFei39U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94022 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 15:01:24 +0200, John Bokma wrote: > Another two books I can highly recommend, Python this time: > > Fluent Python (2nd edition) - Luciano Ramalho Effective Python (3rd > edition) - Brett Slatkin > > Both are *not* beginners books but if you already know some Python and > want to improve your skills. At the time Mark Lutz' books were the best Python entry. I have the first edition of his 'Python Pocket Reference'. It's a slim book, 75 pages. I saw the 5th edition on Amazon and bought it on a whim. It has 254 pages. While it's still useful as a quick reference it only covers through 3.4. That leaves out features I find really useful like f strings. Now 3.15 is released.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 10:45 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11asro4$33n8m$16@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93778 |
On 15/10/2026 20:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Actually, the question should probably not be how did we survive > without these things, but how long we're going to survive with them. Or worse, how long would we survive without them? The thought of a total loss of Internet, let alone the whole power grid, fills me with horror. So much depends on it. Almost everything runs on electricity these days. The pumps that drain the marshes for agriculture. The pumps that supply you with fresh drinkable water, the pumps that get the sewage to the treatment plants. The pumps that put fuel into your car. The pumps that run your refrigerator or your central heating. The computers that process everyday money transactions... One of the most chilling things I read was a quote in Joseph Tainter's "the collapse of complex societies'' Now I wont argue te case for his theory - read it yourself and decide, but he cited a report from - my hazy memory thinks - was a British army captain who entered a town in I think Turkey, in WWI that had been essentially cut off for about 6 weeks. That was all it took for law and order to completely break down, disease and incipient starvation take root and most of the things that make civilisation work, stop working Think Hurricane Katrina... -- The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 13:56 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <r0g9qmxl5p.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93835 |
On 2026-10-16 11:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 15/10/2026 20:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> Actually, the question should probably not be how did we survive >> without these things, but how long we're going to survive with them. > > Or worse, how long would we survive without them? > > The thought of a total loss of Internet, let alone the whole power grid, > fills me with horror. We experienced it here for several hours... For me it was fun. Not so for others, like being trapped inside an elevator. Ukrainians have it worse. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 15:38 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11atctc$3bqcl$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93854 |
On 16/10/2026 12:56, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-16 11:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 15/10/2026 20:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> Actually, the question should probably not be how did we survive >>> without these things, but how long we're going to survive with them. >> >> Or worse, how long would we survive without them? >> >> The thought of a total loss of Internet, let alone the whole power >> grid, fills me with horror. > > We experienced it here for several hours... For me it was fun. Not so > for others, like being trapped inside an elevator. > > Ukrainians have it worse. > > But there it still works enough. Portable generators and so on -- Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 15:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11atfac$3cv5p$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93835 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 15/10/2026 20:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> Actually, the question should probably not be how did we survive >> without these things, but how long we're going to survive with them. > > Or worse, how long would we survive without them? > > The thought of a total loss of Internet, let alone the whole power grid, > fills me with horror. > > So much depends on it. Almost everything runs on electricity these days. > The pumps that drain the marshes for agriculture. The pumps that supply > you with fresh drinkable water, the pumps that get the sewage to the > treatment plants. The pumps that put fuel into your car. The pumps that > run your refrigerator or your central heating. The computers that > process everyday money transactions... All of those things (other than the computers that did not exist yet) also ran on electricity in the 70's, 60's, 50's, etc. So while it does not change the worry of a power grid collapse for any length of time, it also also been an overhanging risk for a very long time. > One of the most chilling things I read was a quote in Joseph Tainter's > "the collapse of complex societies'' > > Now I wont argue te case for his theory - read it yourself and decide, > but he cited a report from - my hazy memory thinks - was a British army > captain who entered a town in I think Turkey, in WWI that had been > essentially cut off for about 6 weeks. > > That was all it took for law and order to completely break down, > disease and incipient starvation take root and most of the things that > make civilisation work, stop working I've read (sorry, long ago lost the 'link') that most city's are only about two weeks away from starvation. As in that's the total "inventory" of food in the markets and whatever little distribution warehouses exist in the citys. The food shops remain stocked because of "just in time delivery" of new stock. Some "collapse" that prevents those deliveries from arriving and the shelves are empty quickly. The "toilet paper" empty shelves about 1 week after the start of the Wuhan virus "lockdown" in 2020 in the US shows that fact. The inventory on the shelves disappeared seemingly overnight and it was weeks before the supply chains were able to adjust and replacement stock to begin appearing on the shelves.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 17:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11ati7b$3bqcl$15@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93879 |
On 16/10/2026 16:19, Rich wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On 15/10/2026 20:40, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> Actually, the question should probably not be how did we survive >>> without these things, but how long we're going to survive with them. >> >> Or worse, how long would we survive without them? >> >> The thought of a total loss of Internet, let alone the whole power grid, >> fills me with horror. >> >> So much depends on it. Almost everything runs on electricity these days. >> The pumps that drain the marshes for agriculture. The pumps that supply >> you with fresh drinkable water, the pumps that get the sewage to the >> treatment plants. The pumps that put fuel into your car. The pumps that >> run your refrigerator or your central heating. The computers that >> process everyday money transactions... > > All of those things (other than the computers that did not exist yet) > also ran on electricity in the 70's, 60's, 50's, etc. So while it does > not change the worry of a power grid collapse for any length of time, > it also also been an overhanging risk for a very long time. > That is not true Much ran on localised power sources from windmills, to steam end diesel engines right up to the 90s Gas refrigerators are still being made Petrol (gasoline) used to be pumped by hand cash existed as the dominant means of payment People had candles paraffin lamps and solid fuel or wood fires. In short when things went sideways there was older technology to fall back on Who today carries a paper map and a compass? The problem is that today apart from survivalists no one has the kit or even knows how to use it That is what scares me. >> One of the most chilling things I read was a quote in Joseph Tainter's >> "the collapse of complex societies'' >> >> Now I wont argue te case for his theory - read it yourself and decide, >> but he cited a report from - my hazy memory thinks - was a British army >> captain who entered a town in I think Turkey, in WWI that had been >> essentially cut off for about 6 weeks. >> >> That was all it took for law and order to completely break down, >> disease and incipient starvation take root and most of the things that >> make civilisation work, stop working > > I've read (sorry, long ago lost the 'link') that most city's are only > about two weeks away from starvation. As in that's the total > "inventory" of food in the markets and whatever little distribution > warehouses exist in the citys. The food shops remain stocked because > of "just in time delivery" of new stock. Some "collapse" that > prevents those deliveries from arriving and the shelves are empty > quickly. > Yes. That is an aspect of it. Also the utter dependency of the city to a rural hinterland to supply the fresh food and water, the fundamental energy, and have somewhere to dump the trash and the sewage. A rural hinterland that the urban dweller does not understand and despises. Yet whose impact is taken entirely for granted. "We don't need farms! We have supermarkets!" > The "toilet paper" empty shelves about 1 week after the start of the > Wuhan virus "lockdown" in 2020 in the US shows that fact. The > inventory on the shelves disappeared seemingly overnight and it was > weeks before the supply chains were able to adjust and replacement stock > to begin appearing on the shelves. > AI is just another thing we may well come to rely on. Which is fine as long as we wont subsequently have to do without. Tainter maintained that what contributed to the downfall of the Roman Empire was the sheer inability to feed an expanding Rome given the limits of transportation of the wheat from the far flung parts of the Empire Anyone who does a systems analysis of modern post industrial civilisation is horrified at the multiple single points of failure and key infrastructures. Ukraine and Russia are currently engaged in doing just that, the one to destroy a civilisation that wont submit, and the other to destroy the war machine being used to try. -- Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 18:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njf899Fit4rU16@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93886 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 17:09:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > Who today carries a paper map and a compass? I do. I also carry an ax, e-tool, battle dressings, QuikClot, tent, sleeping bag, food, both alcohol and hexamine stoves, several flashlights, a few knives, a DC air pump, a DC inverter, wrenches, and a some other stuff. Amazing what you can get into a subcompact car.
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