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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #90165 > unrolled thread

/dev/tcp

Started byEli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
First post2026-08-19 21:20 +0000
Last post2026-08-24 19:08 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 129 — 18 participants

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Contents

  /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-19 21:20 +0000
    Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:53 +0100
    Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:42 +0000
      Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 00:59 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 03:59 +0000
          Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-20 10:10 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:15 +0000
            Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 23:30 +0000
              Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 01:18 +0100
              Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 09:52 +0200
                Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 08:12 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 11:16 +0200
                    Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:57 +0000
                      Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-22 06:17 +0200
                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 21:50 -0400
                Re: /dev/tcp Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-08-24 17:42 +0300
                  Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 23:53 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:27 -0400
              Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 00:56 +0000
                Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-23 04:01 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 03:37 -0400
                    Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:50 +0200
                      Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 22:28 +0000
                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:35 +0200
                          Overwriting with random data (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:10 +0100
                            Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:34 +0200
                              Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:57 +0100
                                Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 22:26 +0200
                                  Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:39 -0400
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 08:45 +0100
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:39 -0400
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:36 +0200
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 15:19 +0100
                                        Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 03:33 -0400
                                          Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:18 +0100
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:12 +0100
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 00:09 -0400
                                        Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 08:52 +0100
                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:37 -0400
                      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:31 -0400
                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:45 +0200
                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:52 +0100
                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:50 +0100
    Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 13:50 +0000
      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-20 13:02 -0400
        Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 18:26 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:54 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:57 -0400
            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-22 21:47 +0200
              The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-22 23:50 +0000
                Re: The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 04:28 -0400
                Re: The hammer is best Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 10:14 +0100
                  Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:55 +0200
                    Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:16 +0100
                      Re: The hammer is best Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-23 21:20 +0200
                        Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:18 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:26 +0100
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:06 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:18 +0100
                              Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 00:51 -0400
                      Re: The hammer is best Joed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid> - 2026-08-23 19:42 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 23:56 +0000
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:25 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 01:14 +0000
                        Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:50 +0200
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:56 -0400
                      Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:53 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 23:34 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 04:08 +0000
                              Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:29 +0200
                                Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 18:52 +0000
                                  Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:19 -0400
                                    Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:29 +0100
                                Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 22:18 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:28 +0100
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:07 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:39 +0000
                              Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:23 +0100
                                Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
                                  Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:05 +0100
                                    Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:43 +0200
                                      Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 08:35 +0100
                                    Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:21 +0000
                                      Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 23:14 +0200
                                Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:08 +0000
                                  Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:38 -0400
                                    Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:22 +0100
                                Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 01:49 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:20 +0100
                              Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 01:23 -0400
                  Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 22:16 -0400
        Re: /dev/tcp Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:41 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:58 +0000
          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:28 -0400
            ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-24 13:56 +0100
              Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh (was: /dev/tcp)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 14:57 +0000
              Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 21:08 +0000
                Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 21:28 +0000
                Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 01:11 +0000
                Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-25 13:25 +0100
                  Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:58 +0000
              Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:25 -0400
                Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:52 +0000
                  Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
                    Re: ksh Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
                      Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:03 +0000
                      Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:04 -0400
                    Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:35 -0400
                Re: ksh Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-08-25 09:56 +0200
                  Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:24 +0200
                    Re: ksh Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-25 20:36 +0200
                      Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:23 +0000
                        Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:04 +0200
                          Re: ksh Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:03 +0100
                    Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:50 -0400
                  Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
                    Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:43 -0400
                  Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:01 +0000
                    Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 01:32 +0200
                  Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:46 -0400
                    Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:25 +0000
      Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:22 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:57 +0100
    Re: /dev/tcp Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-23 06:37 -0700
      Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 14:49 +0100
      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 16:13 +0100
      Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 22:31 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 19:08 +0100

Page 4 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  Next page →


#90418 — Re: The hammer is best

FromJoed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid>
Date2026-08-23 19:42 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<116g0gm$2as37$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90392
On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>>    are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme
>>>>>>    gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton
>>>>>>    way - HAMMER :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions.
>>>>
>>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a
>>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key.
>>>
>>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from
>>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I won’t
>>> have the opportunity to destroy it.
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. 
> 
> It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK.
> Insurance will be voided, contracts lost  and people will get fired if 
> it is not.
> 
> The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, insurance 
> companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines a year to 
> recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be CRUSHED.
> 
>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing 
>> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, or 
>> the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such accidents.
>>
> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies with 
> nothing worth stealing might...

20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, but 
that was NEVER environmentally responsible.  NOTE that Western Digital 
runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives.  They may not pay 
you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives.

Considering that China is constricting the availability of rare earth 
magnets now I think it behooves us to recycle these drives whenever 
possible.

WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if 
/dev/urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them...

Aside from that, I keep all my hard drives encrypted at rest.

-- 
"Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day.  Set a man on fire, and 
he's  warm for the rest of his life."

- Terry Pratchett, Discworld

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#90419 — Re: The hammer is best

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-23 23:56 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<116g1bk$2apg7$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90418
On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 19:42:12 -0400, Joed Oakes wrote:

> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach,
> but that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western
> Digital runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may
> not pay you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives.

There are third-party companies who undertake legally-binding
contracts to erase all data on used drives before reselling them.

A client of mine gets lots of drives from such a source. Here
<https://shop.core.net.nz/products/lenovo-2ru-x3650-m5-rack-server> is
an example of the sort of hardware he puts them in. That takes one or
two expansion cabinets as well, for an extra 24 drives in each.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#90436 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-24 02:25 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<l9icnfTKBY2aeRb3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90419
On 8/23/26 19:56, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 19:42:12 -0400, Joed Oakes wrote:
> 
>> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach,
>> but that was NEVER environmentally responsible. NOTE that Western
>> Digital runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives. They may
>> not pay you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives.
> 
> There are third-party companies who undertake legally-binding
> contracts to erase all data on used drives before reselling them.

   Umm .. CAUTION.

   That contract clause doesn't mean THEY can't
   pirate the drives BEFORE they re-sell 'em !

> A client of mine gets lots of drives from such a source. Here
> <https://shop.core.net.nz/products/lenovo-2ru-x3650-m5-rack-server> is
> an example of the sort of hardware he puts them in. That takes one or
> two expansion cabinets as well, for an extra 24 drives in each.

   Screw 'responsible' - SMASH old drives.

   DID salvage a lot of neo magnets from old
   drives however. HATE to waste those.

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#90421 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-24 01:14 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<nf1k7aF5rktU26@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90418
On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 19:42:12 -0400, Joed Oakes wrote:

> WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if
> /dev/urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them...

Madame Clinton recommends BitBleach.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#90445 — Re: The hammer is best

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-08-24 09:50 +0200
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<hm9tlmxisg.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#90418
On 2026-08-24 01:42, Joed Oakes wrote:
> On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
>>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>    are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme
>>>>>>>    gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton
>>>>>>>    way - HAMMER :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a
>>>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key.
>>>>
>>>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from
>>>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I 
>>>> won’t
>>>> have the opportunity to destroy it.
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>>
>>> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. 
>>
>> It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK.
>> Insurance will be voided, contracts lost  and people will get fired if 
>> it is not.
>>
>> The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, 
>> insurance companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines 
>> a year to recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be 
>> CRUSHED.
>>
>>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing 
>>> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, 
>>> or the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such 
>>> accidents.
>>>
>> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies 
>> with nothing worth stealing might...
> 
> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, but 
> that was NEVER environmentally responsible.  NOTE that Western Digital 
> runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives.  They may not pay 
> you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives.
> 
> Considering that China is constricting the availability of rare earth 
> magnets now I think it behooves us to recycle these drives whenever 
> possible.
> 
> WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if /dev/ 
> urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them...

man urandom

        When  read,  the  /dev/urandom device returns random bytes using 
a pseudorandom number generator seeded from the entropy pool.  Reads 
from this device do not block (i.e., the CPU is not yielded), but can 
incur an appreciable delay when requesting large amounts of data.

My utility in pascal is faster than this, it does not wait.

> 
> Aside from that, I keep all my hard drives encrypted at rest.
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#90486 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-25 00:56 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<4R-dnd9P7cVvvRD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90445
On 8/24/26 03:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-24 01:42, Joed Oakes wrote:
>> On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>>>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
>>>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>    are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme
>>>>>>>>    gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton
>>>>>>>>    way - HAMMER :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by 
>>>>>> holding a
>>>>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key.
>>>>>
>>>>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from
>>>>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I 
>>>>> won’t
>>>>> have the opportunity to destroy it.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.
>>>>
>>>> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. 
>>>
>>> It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK.
>>> Insurance will be voided, contracts lost  and people will get fired 
>>> if it is not.
>>>
>>> The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, 
>>> insurance companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines 
>>> a year to recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be 
>>> CRUSHED.
>>>
>>>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing 
>>>> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, 
>>>> or the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such 
>>>> accidents.
>>>>
>>> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies 
>>> with nothing worth stealing might...
>>
>> 20 years ago where I worked we used the hammer and drill approach, but 
>> that was NEVER environmentally responsible.  NOTE that Western Digital 
>> runs a drive recycling program for EOL hard drives.  They may not pay 
>> you money, but they do offer credits on new hard drives.
>>
>> Considering that China is constricting the availability of rare earth 
>> magnets now I think it behooves us to recycle these drives whenever 
>> possible.
>>
>> WD claims to wipe the drives on arrival, but I still run dd -if /dev/ 
>> urandom of=/dev/xxx multiple times on anything I send them...
> 
> man urandom
> 
>         When  read,  the  /dev/urandom device returns random bytes using 
> a pseudorandom number generator seeded from the entropy pool.  Reads 
> from this device do not block (i.e., the CPU is not yielded), but can 
> incur an appreciable delay when requesting large amounts of data.
> 
> My utility in pascal is faster than this, it does not wait.

   Yep. Still use Pascal pretty often :-)

>> Aside from that, I keep all my hard drives encrypted at rest.

   Now I do NOT worry about people physically stealing
   my drives. That's just RARE.

   The problem is online spies. In that situation you
   have already unlocked those drives and they are
   open to being read.

   Now corps who let people put sensitive data onto
   laptops they will leave on a park bench, THEN
   encrypted drives are a good, important, tact.

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#90427 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-24 00:53 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<l9icnfjKBY0dUxb3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90392
On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>>    are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme
>>>>>>    gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton
>>>>>>    way - HAMMER :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions.
>>>>
>>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a
>>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key.
>>>
>>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from
>>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I won’t
>>> have the opportunity to destroy it.
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. 
> 
> It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK.
> Insurance will be voided, contracts lost  and people will get fired if 
> it is not.


   Ok, still SOME intelligence in the UK !  :-)


> The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, insurance 
> companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines a year to 
> recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be CRUSHED.
> 
>> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing 
>> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, or 
>> the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such accidents.
>>
> No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies with 
> nothing worth stealing might...

   Physical destruction IS best. This can actually be
   as simple as a hammer or cold chisel. However the
   drill-press approach will also getcha there, esp if
   the drill also ruins the physical mechanism for
   read/write. Almost all drives these days have it in
   the SAME location.

   Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin
   the drive.

   Oh, while for a little while they made HDDs with glass
   platters, almost all are aluminum. Even a quarter-inch
   hole, followed by a small drop of toilet-cleaning
   hydrochloric acid (a pinch of salt added is even better)
   will absolutely ROT aluminum platters Real Quick. Used
   to keep a little vial of the brew.

   Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna
   disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on
   a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data.
   Defensive measures should be in proportion to the RISK.
   CIA probably MELTS the things. Joe's Garage does not
   need to - one good whack with a ball-peen will do it
   very nicely.

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#90438 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-24 06:42 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<nf27enF5rktU31@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90427
On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive.

.45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.

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#90478 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-24 23:34 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<4R-dnd1P7cUBkBD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90438
On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive.
> 
> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.

   Well ... far more FUN !!!

   However the office manager wasn't gonna
   go for that ........ downer !

   Oh, be careful with the 45-ACP, low velocity,
   has a tendency to ricochet. The .357mag is
   better IMHO :-)

   For awhile I had a high-voltage transformer meant
   for a furnace ignitor spark-thing. Little wire,
   would thunk it and turn on the transformer. Nasty
   sparks would then trash the chips on the disk
   control board. Didn't trash the platters alas,
   but made reading them a LOT more difficult for
   low-budget spies. OUR stuff wasn't worth the effort.

   Now likely cia/nsa have a furnace - a big pot of
   molten metal - and drop all their old drives into
   that. THEIR stuff IS 'worth it' for high-end hacks.

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#90481 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-25 04:08 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<nf4ipnF5rktU43@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90478
On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>>     Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive.
>> 
>> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.
> 
>    Well ... far more FUN !!!
> 
>    However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer !

The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had 
their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest 
QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!' 

We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father 
even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just 
because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.'

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#90505 — Re: The hammer is best

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 11:29 +0200
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<vs30mmxkn3.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#90481
On 2026-08-25 06:08, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>      Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive.
>>>
>>> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.
>>
>>     Well ... far more FUN !!!
>>
>>     However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer !
> 
> The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had
> their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest
> QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!'
> 
> We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father
> even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just
> because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.'
> 

You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about 
doing it. :-D

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#90557 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-25 18:52 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<nf66j4F5rktU50@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90505
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:29:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about
> doing it. :-D

The chunk of the US in particular. There is no registration or permit 
required in this state so it's a guess but the estimate is 63% of the 
households have one or more firearm, often a lot more. They used to 
require a concealed carry permit for incorporated areas but we got rid of 
that restriction a couple of years ago. Open carry was always allowed 
except for a few places like the courthouse and bars.

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#90615 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-26 04:19 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<ZfqcnWlt_dRVPBP3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90557
On 8/25/26 14:52, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:29:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about
>> doing it. :-D
> 
> The chunk of the US in particular. There is no registration or permit
> required in this state so it's a guess but the estimate is 63% of the
> households have one or more firearm, 

   MUCH more ... they just won't make it public.
   People with 20/30/50 guns are not uncommon
   at all.

   BUT, note, such people almost NEVER do damage,
   likely to DEFEND the populace. It's the psycho
   lefties/illegals who are the threat.

   "Awww ... I didn't get the pony I wanted when
   I was five years old - so now everybody deserves
   to DIE !!!"

> often a lot more. They used to
> require a concealed carry permit for incorporated areas but we got rid of
> that restriction a couple of years ago. Open carry was always allowed
> except for a few places like the courthouse and bars.

   USA - you are NOT a powerless peasants obligated
   to kneel to your Lords.

   Euros don't GET that perspective. Kneeling is
   a built-in response.

   SO sad.

   "Is this not better ? You were born to kneel !" -
   "Loki" character in "Avengers" movie.

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#90618 — Re: The hammer is best

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-26 09:29 +0100
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<116m84i$e9qm$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90615
On 26/08/2026 09:19, c186282 wrote:
> USA - you are NOT a powerless peasants obligated
>    to kneel to your Lords.
> 
>    Euros don't GET that perspective. Kneeling is
>    a built-in response.

Golly. We may not have guns but we have other ways...

You joke at how many prime ministers have come and gone in Britain. 
People power.

If they are crap the people get him sacked. The elite than choose 
another one.

Who is equally crap.

As I said 'after exhausting every other alternative'

The problem with the EU is that it is/was profoundly antidemocratic. 
There was no way to prosecute , let alone sack the executive or the 
president(s).


-- 
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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#90580 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-25 22:18 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<ZfqcnXtt_dSz0BP3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90505
On 8/25/26 05:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2026-08-25 06:08, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive.
>>>>
>>>> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.
>>>
>>>     Well ... far more FUN !!!
>>>
>>>     However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ 
>>> downer !
>>
>> The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had
>> their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest
>> QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!'
>>
>> We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father
>> even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just
>> because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.'
>>
> 
> You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about 
> doing it. :-D

   Still powerless peasants eh ? Kneel Before Your Lords ! :-)

   My original boss had no prob with employees carrying
   guns. Some of what we did was after dark and if you
   had to plug a crack-head, well, you weren't gonna get
   fired for having self-defense. Latter bosses became
   more sensitive to lawsuit worries however ....

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#90451 — Re: The hammer is best

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-24 11:28 +0100
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<116h6d6$2o5cd$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90427
On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote:
> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna
>    disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on
>    a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data.

Large corporate competitors might well undertake such.

-- 
The difference bweteen a psychopath and a saint is that the psychpoath 
takes what he can and gives only what he must, but the saint gives 
everything he can and takes only what he needs.


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#90490 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-25 02:07 -0400
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<4R-dndhP7cUKrBD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90451
On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote:
>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna
>>    disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on
>>    a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data.
> 
> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such.

   Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff".

   Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ...

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#90494 — Re: The hammer is best

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-25 06:39 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<nf4rkdF5rktU45@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90490
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote:
>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna
>>>    disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick"
>>>    over them to try and recover bits of data.
>> 
>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such.
> 
>    Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff".
> 
>    Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ...

I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source 
code it would set them back five years. 

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#90522 — Re: The hammer is best

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 12:23 +0100
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<116jtvv$3l7js$12@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90494
On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote:
>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna
>>>>     disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick"
>>>>     over them to try and recover bits of data.
>>>
>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such.
>>
>>     Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff".
>>
>>     Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ...
> 
> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source
> code it would set them back five years.
> 
Yeah well....

Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get 
'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle 
and sank...

Probably apocryphal

-- 
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the 
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

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#90552 — Re: The hammer is best

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
SubjectRe: The hammer is best
Message-ID<K7ljS.4$UGU.1@fx46.iad>
In reply to#90522
On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna
>>>>>     disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick"
>>>>>     over them to try and recover bits of data.
>>>>
>>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such.
>>>
>>>     Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff".
>>>
>>>     Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ...
>> 
>> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source
>> code it would set them back five years.
>> 
> Yeah well....
>
> Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get 
> 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle 
> and sank...
>
> Probably apocryphal

Perhaps, but then there was that WWII operation where the Brits
took a random body, dressed it up like a high-ranking officer,
loaded it with faked papers describing a bogus battle plan,
and set it adrift where the Nazis could find it.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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