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LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks

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  LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-03 20:50 -0400
    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-04 07:10 +0000
      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-04 10:44 +0200
        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-04 17:53 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 02:47 -0400
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 20:26 +0000
      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-04 11:14 +0100
        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-04 18:07 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 02:55 -0400
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 11:42 +0100
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 14:09 +0000
              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:42 +0100
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-05 20:19 +0000
                  Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 22:38 +0000
                    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-06 12:45 +0100
                      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-06 21:03 +0000
                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-06 22:30 +0100
                  Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-06 12:19 +0100
                    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-06 20:43 +0000
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 22:36 +0000
                  Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-06 12:37 +0100
                    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-06 21:12 +0000
                      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-06 22:33 +0100
                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-07 04:45 +0000
                          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-07 01:57 -0400
                            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-07 11:44 +0100
                              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-07 20:08 +0000
                                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-07 21:41 +0100
                            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-07 20:06 +0000
                              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-07 23:06 -0400
                                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 05:18 +0000
                                  Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 01:37 -0400
                                    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 08:14 +0000
                                    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 12:36 +0100
                                      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-08 17:31 +0000
                                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2026-08-08 14:33 -0500
                                          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 20:41 +0100
                                      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 19:01 +0000
                                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 20:21 +0100
                                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-08 22:27 +0200
                          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-07 11:42 +0100
                    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-06 23:41 -0400
                      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-07 19:16 +0000
                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-07 22:49 -0400
                        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 05:22 +0000
                          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 01:39 -0400
                            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 08:08 +0000
                            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-08 10:28 +0100
                          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 12:38 +0100
                            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 18:57 +0000
                            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-08 19:55 +0000
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-06 02:19 -0400
              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-06 02:18 -0400
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-06 20:14 +0000
              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-06 14:22 +0200
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-06 21:19 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 11:40 +0100
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 20:39 +0000
              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-06 12:35 +0100
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-06 20:27 +0000
      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 00:58 -0400
        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 06:14 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 03:52 -0400
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 14:07 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 11:46 +0100

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#89684

On 07/08/2026 05:45, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 22:33:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 06/08/2026 22:12, rbowman wrote:
>>> My brother-in-law was in the Merchant Marine as a deck officer. The
>>> switch to containers came early in his career. No more exploring
>>> foreign ports.
>>> Dock at 2AM, be off again by 6AM. While he had a master's rating he
>>> never sailed higher than 2nd mate, and then only for 6 months out of
>>> the year.
>>> The Masters, Mates & Pilots union was parceling out work in a dying
>>> industry. Dying for US flagged vessels, that is. I'd considered that
>>> career in high school as an engineering officer rather than a deck
>>> officer. Thankfully I went in another direction.
>>
>> Yes. register your ship in Liberia and pick whatever crew you could get
>> at below minimum wage.
> 
> Jack London's 'The Mutiny of the Elsinore'  isn't one of his works on
> reading lists like 'Call of the Wild'.
> 
> https://obdg.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-mutiny-of-elsinore-by-jack-
> london.html
> 
> He might be describing the crew of a Liberian vessel. The socialists would
> like to include London in their fold but they have to tread very lightly.
> 
The socialists want to appropriate everything popular. I wonder how they 
would get on with 'sometimes a great notion' [book]


-- 
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is 
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

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#89675

On 8/6/26 07:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/08/2026 23:36, rbowman wrote:
>> I learned something else of value. We bought the bare press frame from
>> Daniels of Stroud.
>>
>> https://www.stroudlocalhistorysociety.org.uk/research/daniels/
>>
>> Shortly before it was to be shipped the UK had one of their little dock
>> strikes. A 100 ton press refers to the clamping force and doesn't weigh
>> 100 tons but shipping the thing air freight was a bit pricey. It would
>> hardly fit into your carry on luggage.
>>
>> Depending on international trade has its drawbacks.
> 
> As does unionised dock labour.
> 
> There are no dockers any more. Just one man in a crane and containers 
> everywhere

   Loved the story a few years ago when they realized
   that all those huge cranes had Chinese cameras in
   them - which phoned home. Ergo the CCP could track
   ALL containers across the entire world :-)

   Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.

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#89704

On 2026-08-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

>    Loved the story a few years ago when they realized
>    that all those huge cranes had Chinese cameras in
>    them - which phoned home. Ergo the CCP could track
>    ALL containers across the entire world :-)

I love the way people get so upset about things like this
but think that Google Analytics is OK.

>    Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.

Yup.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89723

On 8/7/26 15:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-08-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>>     Loved the story a few years ago when they realized
>>     that all those huge cranes had Chinese cameras in
>>     them - which phoned home. Ergo the CCP could track
>>     ALL containers across the entire world :-)
> 
> I love the way people get so upset about things like this
> but think that Google Analytics is OK.
> 
>>     Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.
> 
> Yup.
> 

   I don't think GA is especially good either.

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#89730

On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 19:16:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-08-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>>    Loved the story a few years ago when they realized that all those
>>    huge cranes had Chinese cameras in them - which phoned home. Ergo
>>    the CCP could track ALL containers across the entire world :-)
> 
> I love the way people get so upset about things like this but think that
> Google Analytics is OK.
> 
>>    Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.
> 
> Yup.

There seems to be a growing grassroots feeling that the best answer to a 
Flock camera is a 12 gauge.  

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#89732

On 8/8/26 01:22, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 19:16:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-08-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>
>>>     Loved the story a few years ago when they realized that all those
>>>     huge cranes had Chinese cameras in them - which phoned home. Ergo
>>>     the CCP could track ALL containers across the entire world :-)
>>
>> I love the way people get so upset about things like this but think that
>> Google Analytics is OK.
>>
>>>     Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.
>>
>> Yup.
> 
> There seems to be a growing grassroots feeling that the best answer to a
> Flock camera is a 12 gauge.

   Ummm ... they MAY be right.

   Those cams are EXPENSIVE ... major loss by
   whatever means cannot be sustained.

   Also seems The Public has kinda turned
   against them - don't BUY the 'crime'
   angle anymore.

   This is not just USA, but UK and beyond.

   Orwell has become just TOO obvious.

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#89738

On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 01:39:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Also seems The Public has kinda turned against them - don't BUY the
>    'crime' angle anymore.

Law enforcement here does use them. Some cities have canceled their 
contracts because of the bad press but this one never had one. Even red 
light cameras were outlawed statewide in 2009. Some Karens would like to 
allow them but they haven't gotten traction


Scheel's and Lowe's have put them up the parking lots. 

https://deflock.org/

Handy little map with the coordinates and orientation of the camera if 
someone wants to go skeet shooting. I've also seen suggestions to homeless 
individuals that there are worthwhile quantities of various metals that 
could be salvaged.

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#89742

c186282 wrote:

>    Those cams are EXPENSIVE ... major loss by
>    whatever means cannot be sustained.
> 
>    Also seems The Public has kinda turned
>    against them - don't BUY the 'crime'
>    angle anymore.
> 
>    This is not just USA, but UK and beyond.
> 
>    Orwell has become just TOO obvious.

Certainly there are people willing to destroy the ULEZ cameras in London 
and post videos of their work on youtube, but I rarely see any destroyed 
speed-cameras outside of London, used to be common to see them having 
been "necklaced".

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing>

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#89749

On 08/08/2026 06:22, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 19:16:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-08-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>
>>>     Loved the story a few years ago when they realized that all those
>>>     huge cranes had Chinese cameras in them - which phoned home. Ergo
>>>     the CCP could track ALL containers across the entire world :-)
>>
>> I love the way people get so upset about things like this but think that
>> Google Analytics is OK.
>>
>>>     Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.
>>
>> Yup.
> 
> There seems to be a growing grassroots feeling that the best answer to a
> Flock camera is a 12 gauge.

Indeed.

I saw a nice video online: Two pensioners holding up cardboard sheets in 
front of a camera. No damage to property or trespass was involved...]



-- 
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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#89765

On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 12:38:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I saw a nice video online: Two pensioners holding up cardboard sheets in
> front of a camera. No damage to property or trespass was involved...]

That works. Adapters designed to allow using a can of wasp spray on a 
telescoping pole are readily available. TV shows where the bad guys take 
out surveillance cameras are common. I'm sure someone can sum 2 + 2.

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#89770

On 2026-08-08, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 08/08/2026 06:22, rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Aug 2026 19:16:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2026-08-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     Loved the story a few years ago when they realized that all those
>>>>     huge cranes had Chinese cameras in them - which phoned home. Ergo
>>>>     the CCP could track ALL containers across the entire world :-)
>>>
>>> I love the way people get so upset about things like this but think that
>>> Google Analytics is OK.
>>>
>>>>     Sometimes the most effective spying is very subtle.
>>>
>>> Yup.
>> 
>> There seems to be a growing grassroots feeling that the best answer to a
>> Flock camera is a 12 gauge.
>
> Indeed.
>
> I saw a nice video online: Two pensioners holding up cardboard sheets in 
> front of a camera. No damage to property or trespass was involved...]

Or a pool skimmer:

    https://notthebee.com/article/florida-man-exercises-constitutional-rights-by-holding-pool-skimmer-over-flock-camera

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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#89621

On 8/5/26 13:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/08/2026 15:09, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 02:55:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>>     Not sure how much 'steppers' were involved in THESE hacks. Sounds
>>>     more like spoofing instrument readings to cause downstream machinery
>>>     to run wild until it broke.
>>
>> Steppers faded away in the '70s. Mostly. Never underestimate the use of
>> obsolete tech in US infrastructure.
> 
> Steppers all over the place. Default thing to drive car instruments 
> these days. And 3D printers. And laser printers.

   And BIG stuff too !

   Nothing obsolete about steppers.

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#89620

On 8/5/26 10:09, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 02:55:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Not sure how much 'steppers' were involved in THESE hacks. Sounds
>>     more like spoofing instrument readings to cause downstream machinery
>>     to run wild until it broke.
> 
> Steppers faded away in the '70s. Mostly. Never underestimate the use of
> obsolete tech in US infrastructure.

   Nothing wrong with steppers ...

   Even a lot of current tech - in the end
   it's running steppers. It's how mechanical
   stuff gets DONE in a quasi-quantifiable
   fashion.

   Or do you think DC/PWM gets it done ?
   Done that - NOT especially precise.

   At some point, 'software' has to translate
   into 'real world'. Best Dreams don't work
   valves and machines at the water plant.

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#89654

On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 02:18:42 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Nothing wrong with steppers ...
> 
>    Even a lot of current tech - in the end it's running steppers. It's
>    how mechanical stuff gets DONE in a quasi-quantifiable fashion.

See other posts about my use of 'steppers'. I should know by now to be 
more precise.

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#89638

On 2026-08-05 16:09, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 02:55:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Not sure how much 'steppers' were involved in THESE hacks. Sounds
>>     more like spoofing instrument readings to cause downstream machinery
>>     to run wild until it broke.
> 
> Steppers faded away in the '70s. Mostly. Never underestimate the use of
> obsolete tech in US infrastructure.

If I understand correctly what steppers are, washing machines here have 
been using them till recently. My previous one had that.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89667

On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 14:22:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> If I understand correctly what steppers are, washing machines here have
> been using them till recently. My previous one had that.

https://www.electronicsforu.com/electronics-projects/hardware-diy/washing-
machine-motor-controller

It would make sense. A stepping relay with timer inputs could get the job 
done. My relationship with washing machines consists in dropping quarters 
down the slot. The really is one laundromat in town that is coin operated 
rather than a card swipe. It's something to do with 5 pounds of quarters. 

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#89586

On 04/08/2026 19:07, rbowman wrote:
> the wiring harness being laced rather than
> using those new fangled nylon TyWraps.  Fortunately the girls, excuse me,
> female electronics technicians, were skilled in macrame.

I grew up with laced looms. Frankly a skilled operator can do them 
faster than tie-wraps, and cheaper. I can still lace.

-- 
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted 
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest 
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly 
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid 
before him."

    - Leo Tolstoy

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#89615

On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:40:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 04/08/2026 19:07, rbowman wrote:
>> the wiring harness being laced rather than using those new fangled
>> nylon TyWraps.  Fortunately the girls, excuse me,
>> female electronics technicians, were skilled in macrame.
> 
> I grew up with laced looms. Frankly a skilled operator can do them
> faster than tie-wraps, and cheaper. I can still lace.

I was a hair late for lacing. The last large control panels I designed 
used what we called Wiremold although I don't think that is the correct 
term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lKbCL0Gy2Y

He finally opens the door at around 1:50 and it looks like home. With the 
wiremold you could add or replace wires as need without messing about with 
a harness. 

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#89631

On 05/08/2026 21:39, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:40:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 04/08/2026 19:07, rbowman wrote:
>>> the wiring harness being laced rather than using those new fangled
>>> nylon TyWraps.  Fortunately the girls, excuse me,
>>> female electronics technicians, were skilled in macrame.
>>
>> I grew up with laced looms. Frankly a skilled operator can do them
>> faster than tie-wraps, and cheaper. I can still lace.
> 
> I was a hair late for lacing. The last large control panels I designed
> used what we called Wiremold although I don't think that is the correct
> term.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lKbCL0Gy2Y
> 
> He finally opens the door at around 1:50 and it looks like home. With the
> wiremold you could add or replace wires as need without messing about with
> a harness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_lacing

That is what we did. Often with solid core wires bent round nails driven 
into wood to identify branch points.

Solid core was best for fixed installations where the wires were 
soldered as they didn't have stress concentrations at the soldered joint

Then the loom was held down with cable ties - not zip ties - loops of 
plastic with holes at the end for a screw

Surprisingly cheap compared to today's prices for looms. Minimum wage or 
piece work by home workers in the consumer industry...serried ranks of 
nimble fingered Asian ladies on the shop floor for Mil Spec

(Flexible) PCBs today are cheaper.  I remember trying to get everything 
to mount off PCBs by the late 1970s...


-- 
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of 
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people 
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

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#89655

On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 12:35:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> That is what we did. Often with solid core wires bent round nails driven
> into wood to identify branch points.

The first company I worked for had the contract to make the harnesses for 
the company I eventually went to. The harness board consisted to two 4x8' 
plywood panels with a lot of finishing nails. 

The final connections would be made in the field, so a bundle of 
unconnected wires were left. Nobody wanted to come up short so I think 
everyone in the process added a 'little bit'. I went to the site with the 
VP of the company to do the pilot setup. There was about 5 feet of 'little 
bits' I cut off. The VP gathered up all the wasted wire to take home and 
ram up somebody's butt. 

When I went with the other company I designed in Amphenol connectors.

https://amphenol-aerospace.com/products/mil-spec-type-circulars

No tedious and error prone hookups on site. 

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