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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #89521 > unrolled thread

LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-08-03 20:50 -0400
Last post2026-08-05 11:46 +0100
Articles 4 on this page of 24 — 5 participants

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  LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-03 20:50 -0400
    Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-04 07:10 +0000
      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-04 10:44 +0200
        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-04 17:53 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 02:47 -0400
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 20:26 +0000
      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-04 11:14 +0100
        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-04 18:07 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 02:55 -0400
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 11:42 +0100
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 14:09 +0000
              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:42 +0100
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-05 20:19 +0000
                  Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 22:38 +0000
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 22:36 +0000
                Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-06 02:19 -0400
              Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-06 02:18 -0400
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 11:40 +0100
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 20:39 +0000
      Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 00:58 -0400
        Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 06:14 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-05 03:52 -0400
            Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-05 14:07 +0000
          Re: LOTS of US Water Plants Hit by Hacks The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-05 11:46 +0100

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#89576

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-05 06:14 +0000
Message-ID<ndg2mjF4198U41@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#89569
On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 00:58:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 8/4/26 03:10, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:50:24 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>>     Anyway, hardware PLCs are pretty stupid - you don't actually hack
>>>     them directly. They're basically a replacement for a box of relays
>>>     or equivs. Software PLCs - a uC or even better - are more
>>>     "computers",
>>>     oft net-connected these days. An Ard Uno would make a fair
>>>     software PLC. A low-end PI even better.
>> 
>> https://www.realpars.com/blog/plc-hardware
>> 
>> What's a hardware PLC?
> 
>    There ARE 'chips' ... or, cruder, boards with a lot of transistors.

Semantics. A transition device was Square D's NorPak system. There were a 
number of different cards that that mounted in a frame similar to  a 
backplane. NOR gates are the simplest so those were the basic building 
blocks. Working with NOR, NAND, and NOT gates leads to brain bleed.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norpak-Square-D-8852-L-19-Counter-4-Input-NOR-20-
Pack-Series-A-FREE-SHIPPING-/282588704448

'Programming' was done by stripping wire, crimping on a tapered pin, and 
seating it with a too like an automatic center punch. Solid state relay 
logic...

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#89582

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-05 03:52 -0400
Message-ID<zvmdnTp6_oJ0du_3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#89576
On 8/5/26 02:14, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 00:58:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 8/4/26 03:10, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:50:24 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>      Anyway, hardware PLCs are pretty stupid - you don't actually hack
>>>>      them directly. They're basically a replacement for a box of relays
>>>>      or equivs. Software PLCs - a uC or even better - are more
>>>>      "computers",
>>>>      oft net-connected these days. An Ard Uno would make a fair
>>>>      software PLC. A low-end PI even better.
>>>
>>> https://www.realpars.com/blog/plc-hardware
>>>
>>> What's a hardware PLC?
>>
>>     There ARE 'chips' ... or, cruder, boards with a lot of transistors.
> 
> Semantics. A transition device was Square D's NorPak system. There were a
> number of different cards that that mounted in a frame similar to  a
> backplane. NOR gates are the simplest so those were the basic building
> blocks. Working with NOR, NAND, and NOT gates leads to brain bleed.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norpak-Square-D-8852-L-19-Counter-4-Input-NOR-20-
> Pack-Series-A-FREE-SHIPPING-/282588704448
> 
> 'Programming' was done by stripping wire, crimping on a tapered pin, and
> seating it with a too like an automatic center punch. Solid state relay
> logic...

   Modern PLCs do not involve placing wires.

   HAVE done that, but the new paradigm is
   more 'software" or "software defined"

   These cyber-attacks ... they seem to have
   been aimed at a specific, widely used,
   PLC/programmming paradigm. FAIR chance
   nobody changed the default passwords.

   Governments tend to copy OTHER nearby
   govts ... "State/County X uses THIS and
   thus this justifies US using X".'

   Been there, seen this from the bureaucracy.
   The IDEA is to cover their asses in case
   something goes wrong. "We just did what
   THEY did !!!". Yet another reason I retired.

   It's all M$ Fault regardless, not OUR
   fault !!!

   Anyway, it was interesting to see "PLCs"
   blamed. Sorry, it's NOT the PLCs but
   WAY up the chain.

   CyberIdiocy CAN destroy us.

   What happens when they get into the power
   plants, the NUKE power plants ???

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#89601

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-05 14:07 +0000
Message-ID<ndgudhF8voU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#89582
On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 03:52:07 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Modern PLCs do not involve placing wires.
> 
>    HAVE done that, but the new paradigm is more 'software" or "software
>    defined"

That was my point.  PROGRAMMABLE logic controllers were PROGRAMMABLE and 
replaced solid state controllers that were a TTL version of relay logic. 

Of course, when you are interfacing with the real world some wiring is 
necessary unless you go full wireless but that's another story.

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#89588

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-05 11:46 +0100
Message-ID<114v49k$2spu9$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#89576
On 05/08/2026 07:14, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 00:58:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 8/4/26 03:10, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2026 20:50:24 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>      Anyway, hardware PLCs are pretty stupid - you don't actually hack
>>>>      them directly. They're basically a replacement for a box of relays
>>>>      or equivs. Software PLCs - a uC or even better - are more
>>>>      "computers",
>>>>      oft net-connected these days. An Ard Uno would make a fair
>>>>      software PLC. A low-end PI even better.
>>>
>>> https://www.realpars.com/blog/plc-hardware
>>>
>>> What's a hardware PLC?
>>
>>     There ARE 'chips' ... or, cruder, boards with a lot of transistors.
> 
> Semantics. A transition device was Square D's NorPak system. There were a
> number of different cards that that mounted in a frame similar to  a
> backplane. NOR gates are the simplest so those were the basic building
> blocks. Working with NOR, NAND, and NOT gates leads to brain bleed.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norpak-Square-D-8852-L-19-Counter-4-Input-NOR-20-
> Pack-Series-A-FREE-SHIPPING-/282588704448
> 
> 'Programming' was done by stripping wire, crimping on a tapered pin, and
> seating it with a too like an automatic center punch. Solid state relay
> logic...

Today its probably easier to have e.g. an RP2030 in there.

Car ECMs are essentially state machines. For each combination of 
sensors, there is an optimal set of output switches. And because memory 
is easer to manufacture than PLCs they hold the whole engine state 
machine map in NVRAM



-- 
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle 
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump 
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the 
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is 
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

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