Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #89055 > unrolled thread

Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

Started by	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post	2026-07-26 01:09 -0400
Last post	2026-07-27 20:04 +0200
Articles	20 on this page of 151 — 17 participants

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  Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 01:09 -0400
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-26 07:22 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 20:37 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:16 +0000
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:40 +0200
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:10 -0400
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-26 21:24 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:02 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 02:59 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:18 -0400
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Epherma <epherma@remort.app.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:31 -0700
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 04:35 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:37 +0100
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:45 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:10 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 19:52 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 15:17 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 16:22 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 11:51 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-29 08:25 -0400
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:04 -0700
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:09 +0100
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:33 +0100
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:35 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:08 +0200
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:32 -0700
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:10 +0200
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:46 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 12:32 -0700
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:47 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-29 23:41 -0400
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-29 22:54 +0200
                          Re: Not Much Linux Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:30 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:42 +0000
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-29 23:38 -0400
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 04:04 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-30 12:33 +0200
                                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 19:03 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-30 12:34 -0400
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 19:11 +0000
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:11 +0100
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:07 +0100
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
                Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread (was: Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:48 +0100
                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 17:19 +0100
                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:40 +0000
                      Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:22 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 14:44 -0700
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 23:37 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 21:47 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 00:24 +0000
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 04:23 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 23:46 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:07 +0100
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-29 01:50 +0000
                              Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 07:58 -0700
                              Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 18:11 +0000
                                Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:16 +0100
                                Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 19:21 +0000
                                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:54 +0200
                                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:43 +0000
                                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 21:36 +0000
                                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:51 +0000
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 02:32 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 17:57 -0400
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 00:03 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:11 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:38 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:19 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-29 08:19 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:11 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:46 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:47 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:45 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:03 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:35 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:12 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:07 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:19 -0400
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:08 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:19 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:30 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 15:07 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:48 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 01:02 +0000
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:10 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 00:01 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:19 +0100
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:37 +0200
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:43 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0200
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 23:07 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 00:10 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:20 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:40 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 23:00 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 09:37 +0100
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 18:24 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-28 10:48 +0200
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 22:29 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 23:02 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-29 08:36 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 22:57 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-28 10:24 +0200
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:24 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:22 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:16 +0000
      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:51 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-26 23:27 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:23 -0400
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:43 -0400
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:57 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:06 +0100
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-28 15:22 +0000
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:13 +0200
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:17 +0100
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:07 +0200
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:15 +0100
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:18 +0000
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:59 +0000
                          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:59 +0200
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:15 +0000
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:20 +0100
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:51 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 09:00 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:47 -0400
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:18 +0100
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:11 +0000
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:18 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:23 +0000
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:10 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-27 15:45 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:16 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:24 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 19:55 +0200
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 09:59 +0100
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:59 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:25 +0100
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:07 +0000
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 22:48 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 00:59 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:54 +0100
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:08 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 20:04 +0200

Page 2 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next page →

#89110

From	Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks>
Date	2026-07-27 16:22 +0000
Message-ID	<18c6320c52eb0a0f$15335$967852$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>
In reply to	#89105

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:51:05 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> 
> You think Debian and Arch are now corporatized?
> 

No, but since the software they have chosen is controlled
by corporations then there isn't much difference, is there?

You may claim not to support the Chinese but yet your home
is stuffed from floor to ceiling with Chinese goods.

Both Debian and Arch have chosen to follow their lord and
master called IBM/RedHat.

-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89181

From	Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date	2026-07-29 08:25 -0400
Message-ID	<114crfe$rjmv$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#89110

Farley Flud wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:51:05 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> You think Debian and Arch are now corporatized?
>
> No, but since the software they have chosen is controlled
> by corporations then there isn't much difference, is there?
>
> You may claim not to support the Chinese but yet your home
> is stuffed from floor to ceiling with Chinese goods.
>
> Both Debian and Arch have chosen to follow their lord and
> master called IBM/RedHat.

:-D

I tend to believe both distros are driven by technical
considerations.

And systemd seems to be to be a good thing. It sure minimizes boot
times.

-- 
That's the thing about people who think they hate computers.  What they
really hate is lousy programmers.
		-- Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle in "Oath of Fealty"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89183

From	John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date	2026-07-29 08:04 -0700
Message-ID	<20260729080407.0000667a@gmail.com>
In reply to	#89181

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 08:25:18 -0400
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

> And systemd seems to be to be a good thing. It sure minimizes boot
> times.

Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
generally be measured in months or years, and off an SSD even my pokey
little Eee 904 (running Devuan with sysvinit) goes from zero to display
manager in less than a minute.

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#89185

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date	2026-07-29 16:09 +0100
Message-ID	<114d534$v1c8$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#89183

On 29/07/2026 16:04, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 08:25:18 -0400
> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> 
>> And systemd seems to be to be a good thing. It sure minimizes boot
>> times.
> 
> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
> generally be measured in months or years, and off an SSD even my pokey
> little Eee 904 (running Devuan with sysvinit) goes from zero to display
> manager in less than a minute.
> 
Indeed. Its suppose to make Big Tin happy. but for a typical desktop not 
that much can be paralleled anyway.

My PI 4B still scrolls up a few seconds of gobbledygook every time it 
boots...

-- 
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, 
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

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#89212

From	Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date	2026-07-29 20:33 +0100
Message-ID	<wwvbjbpfv66.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to	#89185

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 29/07/2026 16:04, John Ames wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 08:25:18 -0400
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>> 
>>> And systemd seems to be to be a good thing. It sure minimizes boot
>>> times.
>> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>> generally be measured in months or years, and off an SSD even my pokey
>> little Eee 904 (running Devuan with sysvinit) goes from zero to display
>> manager in less than a minute.
>> 
> Indeed. Its suppose to make Big Tin happy. but for a typical desktop
> not that much can be paralleled anyway.
>
> My PI 4B still scrolls up a few seconds of gobbledygook every time it
> boots...

I care about reboot times when doing reboot-heavy debugging, but
thankfully that is a fairly infrequent exercise. Recently the biggest
improvement to startup time was migrating from ifupdown to Network
Manager, which turned out to be both faster and more reliable. There’s
still a few seconds of unexplained delay during network bringup on the
house server (which has the most complex networking of anything under my
control) but that is at least now concurrent with other startup
processing rather than blocking the whole system for a minute like
ifupdown did.

What I get out of systemd is not really connected to reboot performance,
but rather more straightforward and uniform service configuration and
management, with a lot of security and resource control features that in
principle could be implemented in other ways but in practice, aren’t.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#89219

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-29 23:35 +0000
Message-ID	<ncvh16FoulgU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89212

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 20:33:05 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> I care about reboot times when doing reboot-heavy debugging, but
> thankfully that is a fairly infrequent exercise. Recently the biggest
> improvement to startup time was migrating from ifupdown to Network
> Manager, which turned out to be both faster and more reliable.

'systemd-analyze blame'  shows a lot of dev-disk-by/.....  entries that 
run about 3.5 seconds. This seems to go with btrfs.

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#89187

From	"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date	2026-07-29 19:08 +0200
Message-ID	<ncuqbrFos63U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89183

On 2026-07-29 17:04, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 08:25:18 -0400
> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> 
>> And systemd seems to be to be a good thing. It sure minimizes boot
>> times.
> 
> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
> generally be measured in months or years,

Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be 
hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes 
during wake up some times.

> and off an SSD even my pokey
> little Eee 904 (running Devuan with sysvinit) goes from zero to display
> manager in less than a minute.
> 


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89192

From	John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date	2026-07-29 10:32 -0700
Message-ID	<20260729103233.00006677@gmail.com>
In reply to	#89187

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> > Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
> > generally be measured in months or years,  
> 
> Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be 
> hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes 
> during wake up some times.

Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both of
my laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my daily
driver this *year.*

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#89194

From	"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date	2026-07-29 20:10 +0200
Message-ID	<ncuu14Fos63U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89192

On 2026-07-29 19:32, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>>> generally be measured in months or years,
>>
>> Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be
>> hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes
>> during wake up some times.
> 
> Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both of
> my laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my daily
> driver this *year.*
> 

True, but in both cases I see systemd intervening and doing things.

My laptop gets an uptime of two weeks top, then it crashes. Locks dark, 
actually.

My desktop, which is currently broken, also has a limited uptime when 
using hibernation: on one of the cycles, it does a full reboot instead.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89204

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-29 18:46 +0000
Message-ID	<ncv03lFoulgU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89192

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 10:32:33 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200 "Carlos E. R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> > Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>> > generally be measured in months or years,
>> 
>> Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be
>> hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes
>> during wake up some times.
> 
> Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both of my
> laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my daily
> driver this *year.*

Not much on keeping the systems updated are you? In truth it probably 
isn't necessary if they're still functional but I have a slight degree of 
OCD. I even fire up the Win11 laptop once a month for the latest MS 
attempt to destroy it.

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#89211

From	John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date	2026-07-29 12:32 -0700
Message-ID	<20260729123200.00000738@gmail.com>
In reply to	#89204

On 29 Jul 2026 18:46:13 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> > Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both
> > of my laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my
> > daily driver this *year.*  
> 
> Not much on keeping the systems updated are you? In truth it probably 
> isn't necessary if they're still functional but I have a slight
> degree of OCD. I even fire up the Win11 laptop once a month for the
> latest MS attempt to destroy it. 

I'd worry more about that if I had anything public-facing. It's been my
experience that, on a home network with nothing but my own devices,
basic common sense wrt. going to sketchy websites and doing dodgy stuff
is far more critical than being patched for the latest esoteric flavor
of NSA exploits that involve frobbing bits X, Y & Z to a gigahertz
rendition of "Old MacDonald" and listening for the resulting microwave
whistles; I'm not running any centrifuges, here.

(The browsers get updated and restarted more often than the PC does,
anyway; with modern web design, you plain *have* to kill and relaunch
'em just to keep the memory leaks down to a dull roar, and you might as
well take the opportunity to wipe all the cached shit that the clear-
cache button invariably does *not* clear.)

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#89205

From	Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date	2026-07-29 18:47 +0000
Message-ID	<WUraS.154$NR94.63@fx11.iad>
In reply to	#89192

On 2026-07-29, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>>> generally be measured in months or years,  
>> 
>> Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be 
>> hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes 
>> during wake up some times.
>
> Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both of
> my laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my daily
> driver this *year.*

Then there's the picture of your stereotypical nerd wearing a
T-shirt that says, "My machines run Linux, which means that I
reboot about as often as I get laid."

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89226

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-07-29 23:41 -0400
Message-ID	<91GdnScqXslrWvf3nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#89205

On 7/29/26 14:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-07-29, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>>>> generally be measured in months or years,
>>>
>>> Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be
>>> hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes
>>> during wake up some times.
>>
>> Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both of
>> my laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my daily
>> driver this *year.*
> 
> Then there's the picture of your stereotypical nerd wearing a
> T-shirt that says, "My machines run Linux, which means that I
> reboot about as often as I get laid."

   Hey, Linux nerd, why AFFLICT any gal with
   your presence ? Will only turn out bad for
   all concerned  :-)

   The "Sheldon-esque" ougtta know this.

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#89215

From	Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us>
Date	2026-07-29 22:54 +0200
Message-ID	<114dpae$1q2nd$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to	#89192

John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200
>"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>> > generally be measured in months or years,  
>> 
>> Huh, no. Only servers do that. My laptop, for instance, would be 
>> hibernated or suspended twice per day; and as to uptime, it crashes 
>> during wake up some times.
>
>Hibernate is one thing, but suspend doesn't require a reboot. Both of
>my laptops have uptimes of months; I'm not sure I've rebooted my daily
>driver this *year.*

I do kernel security updates. We have 2026.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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#89218

From	Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date	2026-07-29 23:30 +0000
Message-ID	<114e2es$18m2n$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#89187

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 19:08:11 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>> generally be measured in months or years,
>
> Huh, no. Only servers do that.

There is a certain enterprise-class server that I have had dealings
with. The Linux part of the boot is actually very fast: it’s getting
through all the BIOS stuff that can take a minute or two: something
about PXE boot, and the storage manager, and who knows what else -- a
whole series of points where different keys can be pressed to enter
various pre-boot functions.

So people like Poettering spend effort on getting your Linux system to
boot fast, and the people who build the “enterprise-class” hardware
just throw that all away ...

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#89203

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-29 18:42 +0000
Message-ID	<ncuvrtFoulgU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89183

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 08:04:07 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
> generally be measured in months or years, and off an SSD even my pokey
> little Eee 904 (running Devuan with sysvinit) goes from zero to display
> manager in less than a minute.

Ah, the good old days... My Fedora box had almost 4 days of uptime before 
'dnf needs-restarting' said it need to reboot for the latest kernel and 
systemd.  Even stodgy old Mint is getting a new kernel. I don't update 
that one as frequently so it's up to 18 days 9 minutes. At least Leap only 
got a new Python today.

I suppose I could ignore the updates but in my experience that way can 
lead to disaster when you finally do try.

I do agree that with everything up 24/7 unless I'm doing updates a cold 
reboot isn't a problem for me.

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#89225

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-07-29 23:38 -0400
Message-ID	<VNWcneYBi5KqWvf3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#89203

On 7/29/26 14:42, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 08:04:07 -0700, John Ames wrote:
> 
>> Does anybody really care about boot times anymore? *nix uptimes can
>> generally be measured in months or years, and off an SSD even my pokey
>> little Eee 904 (running Devuan with sysvinit) goes from zero to display
>> manager in less than a minute.
> 
> Ah, the good old days... My Fedora box had almost 4 days of uptime before
> 'dnf needs-restarting' said it need to reboot for the latest kernel and
> systemd.  Even stodgy old Mint is getting a new kernel. I don't update
> that one as frequently so it's up to 18 days 9 minutes. At least Leap only
> got a new Python today.
> 
> I suppose I could ignore the updates but in my experience that way can
> lead to disaster when you finally do try.
> 
> I do agree that with everything up 24/7 unless I'm doing updates a cold
> reboot isn't a problem for me.

   The "updates" usually aren't much.

   EXCEPT perhaps browsers ... the Bad Guys are
   constantly trying to infiltrate browsers. It's
   an ongoing war, kinda in the literal sense.

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#89228

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-30 04:04 +0000
Message-ID	<nd00prFoulgU11@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89225

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 23:38:06 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>   The "updates" usually aren't much.
> 
>    EXCEPT perhaps browsers ... the Bad Guys are constantly trying to
>    infiltrate browsers. It's an ongoing war, kinda in the literal sense.

Maybe. Fedora just got another kernel after a massive 9 hours of uptime. 
Important to me? Probably not. Do I want to skip 10 kernels before 
updating? No.

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#89233

From	"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date	2026-07-30 12:33 +0200
Message-ID	<nd0njlF52jrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89228

On 2026-07-30 06:04, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 23:38:06 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>    The "updates" usually aren't much.
>>
>>     EXCEPT perhaps browsers ... the Bad Guys are constantly trying to
>>     infiltrate browsers. It's an ongoing war, kinda in the literal sense.
> 
> Maybe. Fedora just got another kernel after a massive 9 hours of uptime.
> Important to me? Probably not. Do I want to skip 10 kernels before
> updating? No.

If I get another kernel that fast, it is because there was an error when 
making the previous one. I usually get about one a month.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89264

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-30 19:03 +0000
Message-ID	<nd1lftF9i60U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#89233

On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 12:33:25 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2026-07-30 06:04, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 23:38:06 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>>    The "updates" usually aren't much.
>>>
>>>     EXCEPT perhaps browsers ... the Bad Guys are constantly trying to
>>>     infiltrate browsers. It's an ongoing war, kinda in the literal
>>>     sense.
>> 
>> Maybe. Fedora just got another kernel after a massive 9 hours of
>> uptime.
>> Important to me? Probably not. Do I want to skip 10 kernels before
>> updating? No.
> 
> If I get another kernel that fast, it is because there was an error when
> making the previous one. I usually get about one a month.

Leap 16 uses the 6.12 LTS from November 2024. Fedora is at 7.1.5. It 
probably makes no difference to me but so it goes. For example 6.19 
included improvements for btrfs. Both my Leap and Fedora boxes use btrfs 
but I haven't noticed a difference. 

Leap 16 is Python 3.13. In October it will only receive security fixes. 
Fedora 45 is scheduled to move to 3.15 in October when it is released. I 
expect there will be more fixes. 

Plasma on Fedora is 6.7.2, 6.4.3 on Leap, and so forth.

Part of the decision making when selecting a distribution is how up to 
date you want to be. Fedora is semi-rolling and has fewer surprises than a 
rolling release like Arch or Tumbleweed while staying close to the newest 
versions. Leap is downstream of SLED and arguably is more stable. Ubuntu 
sort of splits the difference. 26.04's kernel is 7,0, which would have 
been 6.20 except Torvalds ran out of fingers and toes. It's a LTS release 
so while it has Python 3.14 I don't expect it will ever get 3.15. Ubuntu 
derivatives like Mint are a mixed bag. Mint's kernel is 6.17, its Python 
is 3.12. Newer kernel than Leap, older Python. I'm using those as 
indicators. systemd is 259 on Fedora and Ubuntu, 257 on Leap, etc.

The nice thing about Linux is you get to pick your poison.

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csiph-web

Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

Contents

#89110

#89181

#89183

#89185

#89212

#89219

#89187

#89192

#89194

#89204

#89211

#89205

#89226

#89215

#89218

#89203

#89225

#89228

#89233

#89264