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Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

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  Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 01:09 -0400
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-26 07:22 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 20:37 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:16 +0000
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:40 +0200
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:10 -0400
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-26 21:24 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:02 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 02:59 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:18 -0400
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Epherma <epherma@remort.app.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:31 -0700
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 04:35 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:37 +0100
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:45 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:10 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 19:52 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 15:17 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 16:22 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 11:51 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-29 08:25 -0400
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:04 -0700
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:09 +0100
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:33 +0100
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:35 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:08 +0200
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:32 -0700
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:10 +0200
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:46 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 12:32 -0700
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:47 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-29 23:41 -0400
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-29 22:54 +0200
                          Re: Not Much Linux Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:30 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:42 +0000
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-29 23:38 -0400
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 04:04 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-30 12:33 +0200
                                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 19:03 +0000
                                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Stanislav N. aka pztrn" <no@email.please> - 2026-07-31 01:54 +0500
                                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:13 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-30 12:34 -0400
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 19:11 +0000
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-30 21:11 +0100
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-07-30 14:05 -0300
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:07 +0100
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
                Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread (was: Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:48 +0100
                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 17:19 +0100
                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:40 +0000
                      Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:22 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 14:44 -0700
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 23:37 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 21:47 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 00:24 +0000
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 04:23 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 23:46 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:07 +0100
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-29 01:50 +0000
                              Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 07:58 -0700
                              Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 18:11 +0000
                                Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:16 +0100
                                Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 19:21 +0000
                                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:54 +0200
                                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:43 +0000
                                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 21:36 +0000
                                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:51 +0000
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 02:32 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 17:57 -0400
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 00:03 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:11 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:38 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:19 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-29 08:19 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:11 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:46 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:47 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:45 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:03 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:35 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:12 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:07 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:19 -0400
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:08 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:19 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:30 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 15:07 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:48 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 01:02 +0000
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:10 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 00:01 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:19 +0100
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:37 +0200
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:43 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0200
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 23:07 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 00:10 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:20 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:40 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 23:00 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 09:37 +0100
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 18:24 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-28 10:48 +0200
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 22:29 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 23:02 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-29 08:36 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 22:57 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-28 10:24 +0200
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:24 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:22 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:16 +0000
      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:51 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-26 23:27 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:23 -0400
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:43 -0400
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:57 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:06 +0100
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-28 15:22 +0000
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:13 +0200
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:17 +0100
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:07 +0200
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:15 +0100
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:18 +0000
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:59 +0000
                          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:59 +0200
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:15 +0000
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:20 +0100
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:51 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 09:00 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:47 -0400
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:18 +0100
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:11 +0000
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:18 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:23 +0000
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:10 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-27 15:45 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:16 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:24 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 19:55 +0200
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 09:59 +0100
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:59 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:25 +0100
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:07 +0000
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 22:48 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 00:59 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:54 +0100
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:08 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 20:04 +0200

Page 4 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8  Next page →

#89182 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 01:50:52 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> X (the low level wire protocol and xlib the library) was never meant
> to be a "solution by itself".

That's both a blessing and a curse as it leads to a very tower-of-Babel
approach to UX in *nix software. The funny thing is that Wayland isn't
a "full solution" either, so it doesn't even have consistency to offer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89195 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 01:50:52 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> 
> X (the low level wire protocol and xlib the library) was never meant to 
> be a "solution by itself".  It supplies the underlying basic building 
> blocks (windows, intersections between windows, event detection, etc) 
> but leaves the task of converting that into a GUI to the code utilizing 
> it.  Those alphabet soup of toolkits listed all provide various 
> different abstractions over the raw X building blocks so the programmer 
> can request that, e.g a button be placed on screen vs.  having to 
> assemble a button from the underlying primitives.  A similar analogy is 
> that you can "build a cake" from flour, sugar, eggs, flavorings, etc.  
> or you can buy a ready made cake.  Raw X gives you the flour, sugar, 
> eggs, flavorings, and it's up to you to mix them in the right 
> proportion and then bake them for the right time.  Qt or Fltk or Tk let 
> you "buy a ready made cake" instead.
>

That is correct.

There are still some programs that invoke X11 directly.  One example
is my fave text editor/IDE cooledit:

<https://github.com/paulsheer/cooledit>

[~]# ldd /usr/local/bin/cooledit
        linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffff7fc7000)
        libCw.so.1 => /usr/local/lib64/libCw.so.1 (0x00007ffff7eaa000)
        libX11.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libX11.so.6 (0x00007ffff7d67000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x00007ffff7b96000)
        libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libfreetype.so.6 (0x00007ffff7ac2000)
        libxcb.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libxcb.so.1 (0x00007ffff7a9a000)
        /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007ffff7fc9000)
        libz.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libz.so.1 (0x00007ffff7a7f000)
        libbz2.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libbz2.so.1 (0x00007ffff7a6c000)
        libpng16.so.16 => /usr/lib64/libpng16.so.16 (0x00007ffff7a1b000)
        libbrotlidec.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libbrotlidec.so.1 (0x00007ffff7a0d000)
        libXau.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libXau.so.6 (0x00007ffff7a09000)
        libXdmcp.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libXdmcp.so.6 (0x00007ffff7a01000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib64/libm.so.6 (0x00007ffff792b000)
        libbrotlicommon.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libbrotlicommon.so.1 (0x00007ffff7909000)


Unfortunately, the mainstream distros have all dropped cooledit
(it's probably not "modern" enough for their tastes).

It has to be built from source.




-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89198 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 29/07/2026 19:11, Farley Flud wrote:
> It has to be built from source.

So what are you doing here? go off and build some Linux 'from source', 
that you wrote...

-- 
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89210 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:11:22 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> Unfortunately, the mainstream distros have all dropped cooledit (it's
> probably not "modern" enough for their tastes).

Well, except for the one edit it hasn't seen activity in 4 years. Not so 
much for applications but when I'm deciding if I will use libfoobar in a 
project I always check the activity.

https://github.com/libexpat/libexpat

I've been using expat almost as long as it's been around and they're still 
poking at it.  I've never encountered a bug but apparently there is always 
something to do, mostly security fixes lately. If I saw the hypothetical 
libfoobar hadn't been touched in 4 years I'd look for alternatives. True, 
maybe it is so good it hasn't needed work.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89213 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 2026-07-29 21:21, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:11:22 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately, the mainstream distros have all dropped cooledit (it's
>> probably not "modern" enough for their tastes).
> 
> Well, except for the one edit it hasn't seen activity in 4 years. Not so
> much for applications but when I'm deciding if I will use libfoobar in a
> project I always check the activity.
> 
> https://github.com/libexpat/libexpat
> 
> I've been using expat almost as long as it's been around and they're still
> poking at it.  I've never encountered a bug but apparently there is always
> something to do, mostly security fixes lately. If I saw the hypothetical
> libfoobar hadn't been touched in 4 years I'd look for alternatives. True,
> maybe it is so good it hasn't needed work.

It does not have a wikipedia package. That's the first thing I check.

There is another project with the same name that is about audio.

Distros are about volunteering: if there is a volunteer that is 
interesting in building a package for a distro, it appears there. It is 
not about business.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89220 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 21:54:38 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> It does not have a wikipedia package. That's the first thing I check.
> 
> There is another project with the same name that is about audio.

Expat?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expat_(software)

'Cooledit' gets murky since most of the hits are for 'cool edit', the 
Adobe app that was renamed Audition. Quotes around "cooledit" don't help, 
nor do the websites about "Cool Edit" that misspell it.

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#89216 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 29 Jul 2026 19:21:36 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:11:22 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately, the mainstream distros have all dropped cooledit (it's
>> probably not "modern" enough for their tastes).
> 
> Well, except for the one edit it hasn't seen activity in 4 years. Not so 
> much for applications but when I'm deciding if I will use libfoobar in a 
> project I always check the activity.
> 
> https://github.com/libexpat/libexpat
> 
> I've been using expat almost as long as it's been around and they're still 
> poking at it.  I've never encountered a bug but apparently there is always 
> something to do, mostly security fixes lately. If I saw the hypothetical 
> libfoobar hadn't been touched in 4 years I'd look for alternatives. True, 
> maybe it is so good it hasn't needed work.
>

If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

That tried-and-true aphorism is standard in every engineer's toolbox.

Software does not "age."  If it runs today then it will run forever.

The only problem is that the APIs of any dependencies may change
(although they should never do so).

For example, I use a 25-year-old program that calls routines in
libtiff.  That library was updated and the former API is no longer
valid.  But it's no problem.  Just build the former version of
libtiff and either link it directly or use the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
variable at run time.

However, if one is totally dependent on a distro then this may not
be so simple.

But whatever, software never "dies."  Every GNU project, including
the kernel, has source archives going back to the beginning.

Even GCC maintains source archives.  If a certain program fails
to build with the latest-and-greatest GCC there is no need to
howl and beg for an update.  Just revert to an earlier version
of GCC.



-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89221 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 21:36:33 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> If it ain't broke then don't fix it.
> 
> That tried-and-true aphorism is standard in every engineer's toolbox.

I fully agree with that for the most part but I've gotten burned with 
libraries. Of course, I've gotten burned with projects that are very 
actively maintained too. OpenSSL 3.0 ain't OpenSSL 2.0, etc. 

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#89174 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 10:07:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> 
>> But it's not only GTK+ and Qt but also the plethora of other other
>> graphical toolkits, such as Xforms, Fltk, Motif, Tk, etc., that
>> will suffer with the enforced demise of X11.
>> 
> Thank fuck for that.
> 90s cruft, all off it.
> The fact that they all exist shows that X was never a solution by itself
> 

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!  YOU are the only 1990s cruft.

Motif is quite alive and kicking:

<https://github.com/thentenaar/motif>

Furthermore, a lot of critical GNU/Linux programs are based in
Motif, such as GNU ddd (I'll let you find other examples):

<https://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/>

But then you don't do much debugging or even programming for that
matter.  After all, it would seriously detract from your time spent
spewing your ignorant posts on Usenet.

Also, Tcl/Tk is as vibrant as ever and is fundamental in many
GNU/Linux projects (including my own).

These graphical toolkits will remain forever valuable and a cheap
corp such as IBM/RedHat with its cheap agenda to dare limit these
toolkits is a crime against humanity.



-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89124 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>> future.
>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>
> Who controls Qt?

    The Qt Company: Acts as the main commercial driver, holding
    the rights to commercial licenses, setting the roadmap for
    core development, and providing professional tools and quality
    assurance.

    Qt Group Plc: The parent public company headquartered in
    Espoo, Finland, that oversees business operations and
    commercialization.Open Source ContributionThe

    Qt Project: An open-source governance model where individual
    developers and external organizations (such as Intel or KDAB)
    contribute code, review patches, and maintain specific modules
    alongside internal maintainers.

> I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.

I like the C++ wrapper, gtkmm. I forked a project that used that,
and liked that framework.

But when I decided to upgrade the project and provide a Windows
version, I started with another fork that used Qt, because it
seemed like Qt's cross-platform support was a bit better.

That was years ago, and I've gotten used to Qt. (The project can
be built without a GUI and run as a headless app.)

> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
> you wish for.

Gtk is C code, while Qt is C++ code, and is supporting newer C++
constructs such as using lambda functions as slots.

I once wrote an audio player using C, simulating "classes" via
unions.  It was so instructive I never did that again.

-- 
Anything labeled "NEW" and/or "IMPROVED" isn't.  The label means the
price went up.  The label "ALL NEW", "COMPLETELY NEW", or "GREAT NEW"
means the price went way up.

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#89134 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:57:44 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I once wrote an audio player using C, simulating "classes" via unions. 
> It was so instructive I never did that again.

When I look at C++ I envision what it's doing under the hood to provide 
the syntactic sugar. Not pretty. I never cared much for full blown every 
trick in the book C++ and if I use it it looks like C With Classes. For 
that matter the early edition of Stroustrup's book that I have looks about 
the same. 

Esri's API was C++/COM and it took some getting used to 'smart pointers'. 
You start of with 'IFeaturePtr pFeature'. That's pretty straight forward. 
A feature has a geometry, so pFeature->get_Shape(&pGeometry) makes sense. 
And then..

ICurvePtr  pCurve = pGeometry;

WTF? pCurve has a bunch of methods that pGeometry doesn't.

Esri finally switched to C# thankfully.

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#89137 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>> future.
>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>
> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
>
> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
> you wish for.

I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux.  I'd like to port my Windows
stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using GTK instead
of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I didn't want to have to
rewrite everything in C++.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89140 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 04:11:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux. I'd like to port my
> Windows stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using
> GTK instead of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I
> didn't want to have to rewrite everything in C++.

I’ve been using GTK from Python almost by default. The “GI Repository”
system provides good bindings, for Python and other high-level
languages. I wanted a GUI that had a decent event loop -- i.e.
poll(2)-style event handling, not busy-waiting, so that ruled out
Tkinter.

Currently I have been experimenting a bit with this
<https://pywebview.flowrl.com/>.

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#89166 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 04:11:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+ and
>>> they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the future.
>>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>>
>> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it
>> lately. I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that
>> all start with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
>>
>> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of
>> what you wish for.
> 
> I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux.  I'd like to port my
> Windows stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using GTK
> instead of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I didn't want
> to have to rewrite everything in C++.

Usually if I'm doing GUIs on Linux I use PySide6 (PyQt6) but PyGtk isn't 
bad either. I've recently been playing with straight Gtk. VS Code is a 
little weird, at least of Ubuntu. You need to create a task.json to pick 
up the pkg-config stuff and there are some strange GTK_ environment 
variables that try to pick up nonexistent libs if you try to run the app 
from the Code terminal like 'Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module"'. 
Unsetting them solves the problem. In a Konsole terminal only 
'GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge' exists. 

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#89180 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

Charlie Gibbs wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>>> future.
>>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>>
>> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
>> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
>> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
>>
>> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
>> you wish for.
>
> I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux.  I'd like to port my Windows
> stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using GTK instead
> of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I didn't want to have to
> rewrite everything in C++.

Just add wrapper classes.

-- 
"The road to hell is paved with melting snowballs."
		-- Larry Wall in  <1992Jul2.222039.26476@netlabs.com>

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#89106

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 04:42:27 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> 
> I wonder how that works; does anybody come round to your house and
> tell you not to install XLibre? Do cryptic messages pop up on your TV
> or radio every time you think about installing XLibre? Do you find
> your downloads of XLibre mysteriously dropping out? Do you find,
> instead of an XLibre package on your machine, just a text file saying
> “don’t try this again -- or else”?
>

If you didn't have your head firmly up your ass (don't cry little
snowflake) you would be well aware of what is already very old news:

<https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2025-June/059396.html>

<https://linuxiac.com/xlibre-xserver-project-plans-revival-of-x11/>


To explain things simply, GNU/Linux cannot make enough money for
IBM/RedHat if it contains too much variety and choice.  It therefore
*must* be transformed into a monolithic OS with a standard user interface
and standard everything else, just like M$/Apphole.

If you actually *understood* the software that you so willingly mooch
you would also be well aware that this always was, and still is, the
raison detre for systemd.

Your blatant ignorance makes you more of an enemy than a supporter
of GNU/Linux/FOSS.





-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89116

On 27/07/2026 17:11, Farley Flud wrote:
> Your blatant ignorance makes you more of an enemy than a supporter
> of GNU/Linux/FOSS.
Pot Kettle Black
-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#89092

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:59:44 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>> 
>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>> 
>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>> loses.
>>
>>
> That's not the overall point though, is it?
> 
> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.

The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that? 

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#89103

On 27 Jul 2026 04:46:09 GMT, rbowman wrote:

>> 
>> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
>> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.
> 
> The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that?
>

They have delivered.  Hurd is functional at this moment.

Why such slow progress?  As is usual, there are too many spectators,
like you, and not enough participants.




-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89128

On 7/27/26 00:46, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:59:44 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
> 
>> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>
>>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>>>
>>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>>> loses.
>>>
>>>
>> That's not the overall point though, is it?
>>
>> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
>> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.
> 
> The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that?


   I think early enthusiasm/energy has faded.

   And there's more MONEY in big commercial projects.

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