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Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

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  Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 01:09 -0400
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-26 07:22 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 20:37 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:16 +0000
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:40 +0200
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:10 -0400
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-26 21:24 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:02 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 02:59 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:18 -0400
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Epherma <epherma@remort.app.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:31 -0700
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 04:35 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:37 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 11:51 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
                Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread (was: Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:48 +0100
                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 17:19 +0100
                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:40 +0000
                      Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:22 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 14:44 -0700
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 21:47 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 17:57 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:11 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:46 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:47 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:35 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:12 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:07 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:19 -0400
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:08 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:19 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:30 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 15:07 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:48 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0200
      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:51 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-26 23:27 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:23 -0400
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 09:00 +0100
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:10 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-27 15:45 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:16 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:24 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 19:55 +0200
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 00:59 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:54 +0100
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:08 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 20:04 +0200

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#89121 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
> future.
> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.

Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.

It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
you wish for.

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#89122 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 27 Jul 2026 21:22:16 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> Who controls Qt?

Used to be Nokia; these days it's apparently some manner of alliance
between a publically-traded company and an open-source governing body,
both specifically dedicated to it. The company is Finnish; I dunno
about the org. Qt definitely seems less prone to infestation with Design
Divas than the competition, in my observation.

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#89123 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 27 Jul 2026 21:22:16 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> 
> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
> 

Yes.  They have even hijacked all the standard C type names in favor
of their own.  Hence C "int" becomes "gtk_int" although they designate
the exact same thing.

Also, faithfully following the latest fashion trends, they eschew
the standard configuration files in favor of CSS markup.  Modifying
a simple font or color now requires a weeks-long odyssey of exploration. 



But it's not only GTK+ and Qt but also the plethora of other other
graphical toolkits, such as Xforms, Fltk, Motif, Tk, etc., that
will suffer with the enforced demise of X11.

With one fell stroke IBM/RedHat will have destroyed all alternatives
and forced everyone into its cattle pen.

But the lackeys on this NG won't ever notice.  All that they
can muster is the installation of Ubuntu/Mint and then play
their frivolous games.  They are not savvy USERS; they are tawdry
MOOCHERS.

GNU/Linux is for true *users*, i.e. people that study and modify
the FOSS software to suit their own needs.

In a few years, my predictions will have proved true, but the
morons on this NG will not have the mental capacity to ever notice.

Corporations love stupid sheep.


-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89124 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>> future.
>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>
> Who controls Qt?

    The Qt Company: Acts as the main commercial driver, holding
    the rights to commercial licenses, setting the roadmap for
    core development, and providing professional tools and quality
    assurance.

    Qt Group Plc: The parent public company headquartered in
    Espoo, Finland, that oversees business operations and
    commercialization.Open Source ContributionThe

    Qt Project: An open-source governance model where individual
    developers and external organizations (such as Intel or KDAB)
    contribute code, review patches, and maintain specific modules
    alongside internal maintainers.

> I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.

I like the C++ wrapper, gtkmm. I forked a project that used that,
and liked that framework.

But when I decided to upgrade the project and provide a Windows
version, I started with another fork that used Qt, because it
seemed like Qt's cross-platform support was a bit better.

That was years ago, and I've gotten used to Qt. (The project can
be built without a GUI and run as a headless app.)

> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
> you wish for.

Gtk is C code, while Qt is C++ code, and is supporting newer C++
constructs such as using lambda functions as slots.

I once wrote an audio player using C, simulating "classes" via
unions.  It was so instructive I never did that again.

-- 
Anything labeled "NEW" and/or "IMPROVED" isn't.  The label means the
price went up.  The label "ALL NEW", "COMPLETELY NEW", or "GREAT NEW"
means the price went way up.

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#89106

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 04:42:27 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> 
> I wonder how that works; does anybody come round to your house and
> tell you not to install XLibre? Do cryptic messages pop up on your TV
> or radio every time you think about installing XLibre? Do you find
> your downloads of XLibre mysteriously dropping out? Do you find,
> instead of an XLibre package on your machine, just a text file saying
> “don’t try this again -- or else”?
>

If you didn't have your head firmly up your ass (don't cry little
snowflake) you would be well aware of what is already very old news:

<https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2025-June/059396.html>

<https://linuxiac.com/xlibre-xserver-project-plans-revival-of-x11/>


To explain things simply, GNU/Linux cannot make enough money for
IBM/RedHat if it contains too much variety and choice.  It therefore
*must* be transformed into a monolithic OS with a standard user interface
and standard everything else, just like M$/Apphole.

If you actually *understood* the software that you so willingly mooch
you would also be well aware that this always was, and still is, the
raison detre for systemd.

Your blatant ignorance makes you more of an enemy than a supporter
of GNU/Linux/FOSS.





-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89116

On 27/07/2026 17:11, Farley Flud wrote:
> Your blatant ignorance makes you more of an enemy than a supporter
> of GNU/Linux/FOSS.
Pot Kettle Black
-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#89092

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:59:44 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>> 
>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>> 
>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>> loses.
>>
>>
> That's not the overall point though, is it?
> 
> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.

The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that? 

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#89103

On 27 Jul 2026 04:46:09 GMT, rbowman wrote:

>> 
>> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
>> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.
> 
> The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that?
>

They have delivered.  Hurd is functional at this moment.

Why such slow progress?  As is usual, there are too many spectators,
like you, and not enough participants.




-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89093

On 27/07/2026 03:59, Farley Flud wrote:
> Only GNU and the FSF can maintain and enforce the concept of free
> and open software.

But only large organisations can *actually realise the implementation* 
of free
and open software.

-- 
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

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#89107

On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>
> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0 years 
> ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which loses.

Still, with enough guns you can put it off for a while.  But you're
right, reality is like a rubber band.  You can stretch it a long way,
but eventually it's going to snap back.  And like a rubber band, it
usually hurts when it does.  (The trick for the Powers That Be is to
ensure that it's someone else that gets hurt.)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89119

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:12:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>>
>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>> loses.
> 
> Still, with enough guns you can put it off for a while.  But you're
> right, reality is like a rubber band.  You can stretch it a long way,
> but eventually it's going to snap back.  And like a rubber band, it
> usually hurts when it does.  (The trick for the Powers That Be is to
> ensure that it's someone else that gets hurt.)

Both Apple and Hurd started with the Mach kernel. Since Apple likes to 
make money they quickly went to a hybrid rather than beat their head 
against the wall for decades.

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#89080

On 7/26/26 17:24, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:00:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
> 
>>
>> For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no
>> java script, no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read
>> any site without dealing with cloudflare.  What are
>> corporations giving us ?  Nothing but spyware, ads, DRM
>> and soon ID checks.
>>
> 
> There are alternative browsers.  Palemoon is a good example.
> But since browsers have stopped being just a program to
> render HTML markup and have become a portal for executing
> foreign software on user machines, development of an alternative
> browser is almost an impossible task for an independent team.

   Yep, it ain't 1989 anymore. To be even remotely useful
   for most anything browsers have to be very complex,
   sometimes a bit evil too. Just try to use Lynx and
   related on any modern site ... you won't get anywhere.
   Forget buying from Amazon or doing yer banking.

> Web standards, defined by international authorities, should
> be strictly enforced but they are not.  The fault in large
> part lies with the user who does not take the time and effort
> to demand from web sites that they conform.

   I'm never happy with "international authorities".
   Often some sinister/totalitarian shit involved.

>> To me, most distros are very close to becoming an exact
>> clone of M/S Windows or Apple OS.  The way things are
>> going it will be almost impossible to tell these apart
>> in maybe 5 to 10 years.
>>
> 
> Yes.  Quite correct.

   No, Linux can never be a massive clusterfuck
   like Winders !  :-)

> The single thing that is making this monolithicity possible
> is SYSTEMD (that is its purpose).  All the users (i.e. moochers)
> who blindly accept systemd are complicit in this corruption
> of GNU/Linux.

   Aww ... I like systemd in many respects. It's
   not like the Winders registry, don't see any
   INTENTIONAL evil.

> Fortunately, this only applies to "most" distros.  There
> are alternatives but these always will be in the fringe.

   Look at MX and a few others ... the start-up options
   allow you to run a systemd or sysV version. You can
   use grub-customizer to pick yer default, but still
   have the alt easily available.

> Once Torvalds retires, for whatever reason, from his stewardship
> the degeneration of Linux will only accelerate.

   Which is why I'm looking into the BSDs more and more.

> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top
> priority as the future of Linux is total corporate
> domination with a lack of freedom.

   We need alt development streams.

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#89084

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:19:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> 
>    Aww ... I like systemd in many respects. It's
>    not like the Winders registry, don't see any
>    INTENTIONAL evil.
> 

You "don't see" because you are a deluded, and lazy, idiot.

You, as well as most other GNU/Linux users, have never performed
any serious research into the true origins, purpose, and goals of
systemd, even though you have had many years to so so.

> 
>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top
>> priority as the future of Linux is total corporate
>> domination with a lack of freedom.
> 
>    We need alt development streams.
>

Will you volunteer your programming "talents?"

FOSS requires a lot more than just innocent bystanders.
Each and every user must become involved in some way, however
small.



-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89086

On 7/26/26 23:08, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:19:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>
>>     Aww ... I like systemd in many respects. It's
>>     not like the Winders registry, don't see any
>>     INTENTIONAL evil.
>>
> 
> You "don't see" because you are a deluded, and lazy, idiot.

   Ah, 40 years in the industry and I'm an "idiot".

   PLONK !

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#89087

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 23:19:40 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> 
>    Ah, 40 years in the industry and I'm an "idiot".
> 

I did not realize that a snowflake could possibly survive
that long.




-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89099

On 2026-07-27 05:19, c186282 wrote:
> On 7/26/26 23:08, Farley Flud wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:19:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>     Aww ... I like systemd in many respects. It's
>>>     not like the Winders registry, don't see any
>>>     INTENTIONAL evil.
>>>
>>
>> You "don't see" because you are a deluded, and lazy, idiot.
> 
>    Ah, 40 years in the industry and I'm an "idiot".
> 
>    PLONK !
> 

He is a known "character". He hates all distributions, and says people 
using a distribution is stupid, or "a deluded, and lazy, idiot". He is 
the only clever guy because he doesn't use any.

We simply ignore him.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89104

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 15:07:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> 
> He is a known "character".
>

And you are a known boorish dago.





-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89115

On 27/07/2026 16:48, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 15:07:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>>
>> He is a known "character".
>>
> 
> And you are a known boorish dago.
> 
> 
Unnecessarily offensive with no meaningful content.

A dago, yes, but boorish, no.
Just has a misguided faith in Socialism which replaces the catholic 
church in the Latin mind

> 

-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#89101

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>   Look at MX and a few others ... the start-up options
>   allow you to run a systemd or sysV version.

I am very interested in knowing who wastes weeks of their lifetime to
write initscripts for Debian packages. Those people must be real
fanatics.

>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top
>> priority as the future of Linux is total corporate
>> domination with a lack of freedom.
>
>   We need alt development streams.

I think we don't even have enough personpower for ONE decent
development stream.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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#89070 — Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:00:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

> For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no java script,
> no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read any site without dealing
> with cloudflare.

“no java script” on the one hand, yet “can read any site” on the other.

Why not wish for a car that you can drive for infinite miles without
refuelling? You might actually be more likely to get that.

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