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Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

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  Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 01:09 -0400
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-26 07:22 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 20:37 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:16 +0000
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:40 +0200
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:10 -0400
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-26 21:24 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:02 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 02:59 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:18 -0400
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Epherma <epherma@remort.app.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:31 -0700
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 04:35 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:37 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 11:51 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
                Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread (was: Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:48 +0100
                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 17:19 +0100
                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:40 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:11 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:46 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:47 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:35 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:12 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:19 -0400
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:08 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:19 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:30 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 15:07 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:48 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0200
      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:51 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-26 23:27 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:23 -0400
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 09:00 +0100
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:10 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-27 15:45 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:16 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:24 +0100
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 00:59 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:54 +0100
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:08 -0400

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#89055 — Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

Plenty of POLITICS, some 'existential' and
'philosophical' stuff ... but not much Linux.

Oh well, maybe not TOO much "Linux" happening
at the moment ... gotta fill in .....

I'd rather see SOMETHING in the groups rather
than NOTHING.

However I do expect more Linux/etc ... as "AI"
kinda takes over EVERYTHING. Who can do the
better job ? Where is the money/hiring going
to go ? What happens when Linus gets Too Old ?
Will Claude/Chat out-program ALL humans ?

M$/Apple want to DESTROY Linux - the entire
computing world MUST be in their grasp, and
make them LOTS OF MONEY. They have many many
resources, lots of lawyers, lots of infiltrators.

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#89056

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 01:09:20 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> Oh well, maybe not TOO much "Linux" happening at the moment ... gotta
> fill in .....

Not much happening besides kernel updates. So far Fedora 45 is on schedule 
for October with Plasma 6.8. It's also supposed to go to Python 3.15. Leap 
16.1 is scheduled for November. I'm on 26.04 Ubuntu which is a LTS. I 
probably won't bother updating. Mint 23 is due in December. 

Boring is good. My latest learning experience was building a Gtk+ 3.0 app 
in VS Code. I had to create a tasks.json file to pick up the info from 
'pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-3.0'  There is also a 
c_cpp_properties.json that needs the same info but that's apparently only 
for Intellisense. I never was fond of Gtk and Intellisense sucks. Start 
with gtk_but and you get a page of possibilities including 5 different 
gtk_button_new_...

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#89073

On 7/26/26 03:22, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 01:09:20 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> Oh well, maybe not TOO much "Linux" happening at the moment ... gotta
>> fill in .....
> 
> Not much happening besides kernel updates. So far Fedora 45 is on schedule
> for October with Plasma 6.8. It's also supposed to go to Python 3.15. Leap
> 16.1 is scheduled for November. I'm on 26.04 Ubuntu which is a LTS. I
> probably won't bother updating. Mint 23 is due in December.

   All sounds good !

   Dumped Ubuntus quite awhile back when Canonical got
   all weird. "Mint" is good, vanilla Deb is good, MX
   is very good ... but not Ubuntu - at least in my
   opinion/experience.

   Did use Centos for awhile on servers, but after IBM
   dug in to RHEL I discovered I was now just an unpaid
   beta tester. The GNOME interface too - HORRIBLE !!!

> Boring is good. My latest learning experience was building a Gtk+ 3.0 app
> in VS Code. I had to create a tasks.json file to pick up the info from
> 'pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-3.0'  There is also a
> c_cpp_properties.json that needs the same info but that's apparently only
> for Intellisense. I never was fond of Gtk and Intellisense sucks. Start
> with gtk_but and you get a page of possibilities including 5 different
> gtk_button_new_...

   One reason we went Linux was for relative STABILITY.
   It's supposed to Just Work clean and simple (well,
   as 'simple' as ya get these days).

   Of course it doesn't ALWAYS "just work" - can't be
   expected in complex systems. However Linux isn't a
   constantly moving target like Winders - and NOBODY,
   or room full of anybodies, has a clue how/why Winders
   works these days. What a MESS ! It'd give an AI the
   equiv of a nervous breakdown :-)

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#89079

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:37:24 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Did use Centos for awhile on servers, but after IBM dug in to RHEL I
>    discovered I was now just an unpaid beta tester. The GNOME interface
>    too - HORRIBLE !!!

Fedora is working for me. When I first installed it KDE was a spin but now 
it's a first class citizen. I did run the Leap 16 GNOME version in a VM. 
It didn't last long. I am running Leap 16 on a laptop but it's KDE too.

At least Ubuntu tweaks GNOME with dash to dock or whatever the thing is to 
get a toolbar where I can pin the stuff I use. I rarely have to use the 
dash.

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#89065

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> Plenty of POLITICS, some 'existential' and
> 'philosophical' stuff ... but not much Linux.

true

> Oh well, maybe not TOO much "Linux" happening
> at the moment ... gotta fill in .....

Not much is really happening, Linux has matured.  You
can get native office suits, stream music and video and
even use bluetooth.

But in reality, corporations are now and have been pushing
Linux changes for almost 20 years.  In the past users
had influence on the direction of Linux.  Now end user
requirements are completely ignored.

For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no
java script, no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read
any site without dealing with cloudflare.  What are
corporations giving us ?  Nothing but spyware, ads, DRM
and soon ID checks.

To me, most distros are very close to becoming an exact
clone of M/S Windows or Apple OS.  The way things are
going it will be almost impossible to tell these apart
in maybe 5 to 10 years.

> I'd rather see SOMETHING in the groups rather
> than NOTHING.
> 
> However I do expect more Linux/etc ... as "AI"
> kinda takes over EVERYTHING. Who can do the
> better job ? Where is the money/hiring going
> to go ? What happens when Linus gets Too Old ?
> Will Claude/Chat out-program ALL humans ?
> 
> M$/Apple want to DESTROY Linux - the entire
> computing world MUST be in their grasp, and
> make them LOTS OF MONEY. They have many many
> resources, lots of lawyers, lots of infiltrators.

See rant above :)  But I think it is many more corporations
then just M/S, it is just Microsoft is the most visible.
Just look at who is pushing Wayland instead of enhancing
X11.  If end users were in control like we were in the
90s, X11 would have improved a lot over the last 15 years
instead of people working on Wayland.

-- 
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
                        - Paraphrasing Star Wars

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#89067

On 2026-07-26 22:00, John McCue wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> Plenty of POLITICS, some 'existential' and
>> 'philosophical' stuff ... but not much Linux.
> 
> true
> 
>> Oh well, maybe not TOO much "Linux" happening
>> at the moment ... gotta fill in .....
> 
> Not much is really happening, Linux has matured.  You
> can get native office suits, stream music and video and
> even use bluetooth.
> 
> But in reality, corporations are now and have been pushing
> Linux changes for almost 20 years.  In the past users
> had influence on the direction of Linux.  Now end user
> requirements are completely ignored.
> 
> For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no
> java script,

No, I do not want a browser without javascript.

> no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read
> any site without dealing with cloudflare.  What are
> corporations giving us ?  Nothing but spyware, ads, DRM
> and soon ID checks.

...

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#89078

On 7/26/26 16:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-07-26 22:00, John McCue wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> Plenty of POLITICS, some 'existential' and
>>> 'philosophical' stuff ... but not much Linux.
>>
>> true
>>
>>> Oh well, maybe not TOO much "Linux" happening
>>> at the moment ... gotta fill in .....
>>
>> Not much is really happening, Linux has matured.  You
>> can get native office suits, stream music and video and
>> even use bluetooth.
>>
>> But in reality, corporations are now and have been pushing
>> Linux changes for almost 20 years.  In the past users
>> had influence on the direction of Linux.  Now end user
>> requirements are completely ignored.
>>
>> For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no
>> java script,
> 
> No, I do not want a browser without javascript.

   DOES have its place.

   Anyway, install NoScript - then YOU decide which
   scripts get to run. I've dumped many sites because
   they wanted 25 scripts enabled just to do ANYTHING.
   Fuck 'em.

>> no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read
>> any site without dealing with cloudflare.  What are
>> corporations giving us ?  Nothing but spyware, ads, DRM
>> and soon ID checks.
> 

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#89069

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:00:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

> 
> For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no
> java script, no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read
> any site without dealing with cloudflare.  What are
> corporations giving us ?  Nothing but spyware, ads, DRM
> and soon ID checks.
>

There are alternative browsers.  Palemoon is a good example.
But since browsers have stopped being just a program to
render HTML markup and have become a portal for executing
foreign software on user machines, development of an alternative
browser is almost an impossible task for an independent team.

Web standards, defined by international authorities, should
be strictly enforced but they are not.  The fault in large
part lies with the user who does not take the time and effort
to demand from web sites that they conform.



> 
> To me, most distros are very close to becoming an exact
> clone of M/S Windows or Apple OS.  The way things are
> going it will be almost impossible to tell these apart
> in maybe 5 to 10 years.
> 

Yes.  Quite correct.

The single thing that is making this monolithicity possible
is SYSTEMD (that is its purpose).  All the users (i.e. moochers)
who blindly accept systemd are complicit in this corruption
of GNU/Linux.

Fortunately, this only applies to "most" distros.  There
are alternatives but these always will be in the fringe.

Once Torvalds retires, for whatever reason, from his stewardship
the degeneration of Linux will only accelerate.

The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top
priority as the future of Linux is total corporate
domination with a lack of freedom.


-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89075

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.

The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0 years 
ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which loses.

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#89083

On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
> 
>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
> 
> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0 years 
> ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which loses.
>

That's not the overall point though, is it?

Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.

Only GNU and the FSF can maintain and enforce the concept of free
and open software.  Linux is being heavily corrupted by corporate
interests (e.g. IBM/RedHat and even Microsoft).

Systemd is at the forefront of this corruption.  That was, and is, its
entire raison detre.






-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89085

On 7/26/26 22:59, Farley Flud wrote:
> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>>
>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0 years
>> ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which loses.
>>
> 
> That's not the overall point though, is it?
> 
> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.

   Oh PLEASE - not "Hurd" !!!  :-)

> Only GNU and the FSF can maintain and enforce the concept of free
> and open software.  Linux is being heavily corrupted by corporate
> interests (e.g. IBM/RedHat and even Microsoft).
> 
> Systemd is at the forefront of this corruption.  That was, and is, its
> entire raison detre.

   Systemd is NOT inherently evil. The M$ registry
   is evil, but not systemd. I have boxes with
   systemd - and LIKE that it'll inherently watchdog
   my daemons and others. Have a few others that
   are SysV. Each has their place. For each need ...

   Not to sound like a salesman, but DO look into MX
   Linux. You get EASY options whether to use systemd
   or not. Use grub-customizer to set your main pref,
   but the alt is always easy to get at.

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#89088

Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> writes:

> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> Systemd is at the forefront of this corruption.  That was, and is, its
> entire raison detre.

See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests. A very
much related phenomenom.

-- 
Do they only stand
By ignorance, is that their happy state,
The proof of their obedience and their faith?

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#89089

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:31:31 -0700, Epherma wrote:

> 
> See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests. A very
> much related phenomenom.
>

A most excellent point.

The corps have decreed that it will be systemd and wayland and nothing
else will be permitted.

My only advice is for all people to stop installing mainstream distros
and use only the alternatives that offer choice.

Is that too hard to follow?

For the majority it will prove to be so.




-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89094

On 27/07/2026 05:35, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:31:31 -0700, Epherma wrote:
> 
>>
>> See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests. A very
>> much related phenomenom.
>>
> 
> A most excellent point.
> 
> The corps have decreed that it will be systemd and wayland and nothing
> else will be permitted.
> 
I hate all those corporate interests that have decreed that all wheels 
will be round and shod with black rubber.
How dare they!

-- 
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

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#89105

Farley Flud wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:31:31 -0700, Epherma wrote:
>
>> See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests. A very
>> much related phenomenom.
>
> A most excellent point.
>
> The corps have decreed that it will be systemd and wayland and nothing
> else will be permitted.

You think Debian and Arch are now corporatized?

> My only advice is for all people to stop installing mainstream distros
> and use only the alternatives that offer choice.
>
> Is that too hard to follow?
>
> For the majority it will prove to be so.

-- 
Oatmeal raisin.

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#89110

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 11:51:05 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> 
> You think Debian and Arch are now corporatized?
> 

No, but since the software they have chosen is controlled
by corporations then there isn't much difference, is there?

You may claim not to support the Chinese but yet your home
is stuffed from floor to ceiling with Chinese goods.

Both Debian and Arch have chosen to follow their lord and
master called IBM/RedHat.


-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89090

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:31:31 -0700, Epherma wrote:

> See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests.

I wonder how that works; does anybody come round to your house and
tell you not to install XLibre? Do cryptic messages pop up on your TV
or radio every time you think about installing XLibre? Do you find
your downloads of XLibre mysteriously dropping out? Do you find,
instead of an XLibre package on your machine, just a text file saying
“don’t try this again -- or else”?

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#89095 — Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread (was: Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late)

On 2026-07-27, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:31:31 -0700, Epherma wrote:
>
>> See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests.
>
> I wonder how that works; does anybody come round to your house and
> tell you not to install XLibre? Do cryptic messages pop up on your TV
> or radio every time you think about installing XLibre? Do you find
> your downloads of XLibre mysteriously dropping out? Do you find,
> instead of an XLibre package on your machine, just a text file saying
> “don’t try this again -- or else”?

I think you're confusing manipulation by corporate interests with
dystopian science fiction.

You may have had a point there, but it seems to me you completely ruined
any chance of a serious argument with these exaggerated examples?

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#89109 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 2026-07-27, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:31:31 -0700, Epherma wrote:
>>> See also the suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests.
>>
>> I wonder how that works; does anybody come round to your house and
>> tell you not to install XLibre? Do cryptic messages pop up on your TV
>> or radio every time you think about installing XLibre? Do you find
>> your downloads of XLibre mysteriously dropping out? Do you find,
>> instead of an XLibre package on your machine, just a text file saying
>> “don’t try this again -- or else”?
>
> I think you're confusing manipulation by corporate interests with
> dystopian science fiction.
>
> You may have had a point there, but it seems to me you completely
> ruined any chance of a serious argument with these exaggerated
> examples?

I assume you mean “suppression of Xlibre by huge corporate interests” is
is exaggerated, since Lawrence’s response is so obviously sarcastic.

It seems to me that the reality is that it’s largely ignored. Partly
that’s due to of adoption of Wayland, perhaps, but it’s also
substantially because if you do need X11, Xorg remains readily
available.

  $ cat /etc/debian_version
  13.6
  $ dpkg -l xorg|tail -1
  ii  xorg           1:7.7+24+deb13u1 amd64        X.Org X Window System

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#89111 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:19:10 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> 
> It seems to me that the reality is that it’s largely ignored. Partly
> that’s due to of adoption of Wayland, perhaps, but it’s also
> substantially because if you do need X11, Xorg remains readily
> available.
> 

Here is yet another lackey who fails to understand the software
that he uses.

Only comparatively few programs use X11 directly (my fave text
editor, cooledit, is an example.)  Most programs employ graphical
toolkits like GTK+ or Qt which then in turn will invoke X11.

Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in
the future.  Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.

Well, so what?  All GTK+ software will still function as usual.
Yes, but that only applies to application software.  Other software,
such as the long legacy of X11 window managers, will all be broken.

Do you desire to use one of the excellent and still maintained
X11 window managers?  Tough luck, bozo.  You won't be able to do so.
Why not?  Because IBM/RedHat has said so.  That's why not.  There
is no other reason.


-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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