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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #88894 > unrolled thread

Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
Last post2026-07-19 04:32 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 136 — 14 participants

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Contents

  Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 01:29 +0000
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 22:09 -0400
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-07-20 08:55 +1000
        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-20 00:52 -0400
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:13 +0200
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:20 +0100
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 17:49 +0200
              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 16:12 +0000
                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:30 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:36 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:31 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:32 +0200
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:29 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:47 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:05 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:16 -0400
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:27 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:18 -0400
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 03:16 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:33 -0400
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 07:22 +0000
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:52 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:56 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:06 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:00 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:51 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:31 +0000
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:07 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:49 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:39 +0200
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:26 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:54 +0100
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:10 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:53 +0100
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:33 +0100
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:13 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:36 +0100
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:29 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 20:45 +0100
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:48 +0200
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:32 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 00:02 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 17:04 +0200
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:35 +0000
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:41 -0400
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:14 +0000
                                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:22 -0400
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-23 08:26 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:00 +0100
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:54 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:57 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:44 +0000
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:57 +0100
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 17:08 +0200
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-25 22:52 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:29 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:49 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:34 -0400
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:57 +0100
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:22 +0200
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:59 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:51 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:51 +0100
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:43 +0200
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:32 +0000
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-24 13:59 +0200
                                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 22:09 -0400
                                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-25 05:02 +0000
                                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-25 12:48 +0200
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:37 +0100
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 15:55 +0200
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 14:58 +0100
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 16:53 +0200
                                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 15:59 +0100
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-21 11:40 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:07 +0000
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 01:19 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:32 -0400
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 08:31 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:42 +0200
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:49 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:29 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:46 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-22 10:21 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:39 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:54 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:30 +0200
        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 12:24 +0100
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:01 +0000
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:21 +0000
              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:21 +0000
                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:22 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:22 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-07-21 08:39 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:53 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:25 -0400
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 04:04 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-22 04:17 +0000
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:09 -0400
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:45 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:31 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:01 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 22:05 -0400
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:44 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:10 +0100
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:15 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:49 +0200
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:27 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:44 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:05 -0400
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:09 +0100
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:44 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:39 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 07:15 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 21:32 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:00 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 21:43 -0400
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:42 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-25 16:39 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 17:50 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-25 20:27 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:24 +0200
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:10 -0400
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:34 +0100
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:55 +0000
    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-19 03:58 +0100
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 04:32 +0000

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#89043

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-25 15:59 +0100
Message-ID<1142j03$1il2n$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#89042
On 25/07/2026 15:53, s|b wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2026 14:58:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> Violent Islamic anti-semitism is a modern thing.
>>
>> Israel has simply been too successful. Jealousy & shame turns into hatred.
> 
> If by 'successful' you mean running a fascist, racist, warmongering,
> apartheid state, then yes, they've been very successful.
> 
So no different from any other middle eats staqted.
But no, modern industrialized, internationally recognised and thoroughly 
twenty first century country

> ATM I'm reading 'Footnotes in Gaza' by Joe Sacco about the execution of
> Palestinian refugees (by the IDF) in Gaza 1956. Not something to be
> jealous of, more ashamed (if you have a conscience) . Unfortunately, it
> is merely a footnote, because there have been so much more deaths since
> then.
> 
Assuming of course it is true...

-- 
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing 
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

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#88950

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 11:40 +0200
Message-ID<nc8t3jFc5a3U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88941
On 2026-07-21 06:13, Rich wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/07/2026 20:39, s|b wrote:
>>> On 20 Jul 2026 18:30:21 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if
>>>> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have
>>>> the capability but China and Russia certainly do.
>>>
>>> Ukraine has drones that can fly over 3.000 km, so if Iran has those,
>>> then those carriers will have to park them even further.
>>>
>> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science.
> 
> Which is odd, given that a great number of centuries ago, the Islamic
> world of that age was inventing scientific breakthrough after
> scientific breakthrough.

They also transmitted a lot of knowledge, starting with the Arabic 
number system that we use today. It was invented in India. To transmit 
something you have to understand it.

They also had better doctors than Christianity.

> 
> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the extremists)
> is what does not mesh well with science.  Islam of yore did mesh well.
> Something changed in the centries from then to now.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88953

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 18:07 +0000
Message-ID<nc9qroF7pt3U10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88950
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> They also transmitted a lot of knowledge, starting with the Arabic
> number system that we use today. It was invented in India. To transmit
> something you have to understand it.
> 
> They also had better doctors than Christianity.

The sad part is Jews did better under Islamic regimes than Christian. It 
wasn't the Moors that forced the Jews to leave or pretend to be converted 
in Spain in 1492. That was probably true until 1948.

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#88963

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 01:19 +0000
Message-ID<113p5rd$2fnb0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88950
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the
>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore
>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now.

The interpretation changed.

When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of
what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the
Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message
back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books.

The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which
case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case
they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.”

And then, just a couple centuries later, the thinking changed, and the
Islamic Golden Age of scholarship and learning -- the origins of
science as we know it today -- began. Then, a few centuries after
that, the thinking changed again, and the Golden Age ended.

And just about at this point, the thinking in the Christian world
changed, too. And so we got the Italian Renaissance -- founded on many
of the ideas from the older Islamic learning, don’t forget. It was the
Islamic world that had kept the old Greek learning alive (and was
busily adding to it), while the Christian idea of “learning” was
making endless over-decorated copies of their holy book.

Moral: You can take exactly the same holy teachings, and selectively
use parts of them to justify entirely opposite and contradictory
intellectual positions. We saw that happen with both the Muslims and
the Christians. And it happens with Jews as well.

Religous argument is circular argument.

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#88965

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-21 21:32 -0400
Message-ID<jP2dnfKytY-dg_33nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88963
On 7/21/26 21:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the
>>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore
>>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now.
> 
> The interpretation changed.
> 
> When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of
> what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the
> Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message
> back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books.
> 
> The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which
> case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case
> they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.”

   Yep.

   Still hope that, somewhere, backup copies of
   all that stuff were safely stashed away in
   an obscure desert cave.

   Ptolemy-II ordered that any ships coming into
   Alexandria with books ... the books HAD to be
   delivered to the library to be COPIED before
   the originals were returned. So, the concept
   of 'backups' wasn't alien even back then.

   Islam is made to be more radical/purist/evangelical
   than even Christianity. EARLY Islamic civ was high
   on its successes and this tended to help the sciences.
   But once the advances stalled, POWER was retained by
   getting really fundy.

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#88972

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 08:31 +0100
Message-ID<wwvtspra3an.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#88963
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the
>>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore
>>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now.
>
> The interpretation changed.
>
> When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of
> what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the
> Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message
> back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books.
>
> The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which
> case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case
> they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.”

Do you have a contemporary source for that?

They library was almost certainly gone before the end of the C3rd, the
conquest of Alexandria was in the C7th, and the anecdote you quote
doesn’t turn up until the C13th, one of a number of dubiuosly evidenced
attempts to pin the damage on one religion another.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#88975

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 13:42 +0200
Message-ID<ncbolnFc5a3U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88963
On 2026-07-22 03:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the
>>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore
>>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now.
> 
> The interpretation changed.
> 
> When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of
> what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the
> Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message
> back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books.
> 
> The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which
> case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case
> they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.”
> 
> And then, just a couple centuries later, the thinking changed, and the
> Islamic Golden Age of scholarship and learning -- the origins of
> science as we know it today -- began. Then, a few centuries after
> that, the thinking changed again, and the Golden Age ended.
> 
> And just about at this point, the thinking in the Christian world
> changed, too. And so we got the Italian Renaissance -- founded on many
> of the ideas from the older Islamic learning, don’t forget. It was the
> Islamic world that had kept the old Greek learning alive (and was
> busily adding to it), while the Christian idea of “learning” was
> making endless over-decorated copies of their holy book.

There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned upon. 
Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get well. Doctors 
should not interfere. They could take a page out of the bible and put it 
inside the wound.

> 
> Moral: You can take exactly the same holy teachings, and selectively
> use parts of them to justify entirely opposite and contradictory
> intellectual positions. We saw that happen with both the Muslims and
> the Christians. And it happens with Jews as well.
> 
> Religous argument is circular argument.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88984

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
Message-ID<Ky48S.463809$khyb.404106@fx44.iad>
In reply to#88975
On 2026-07-22, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned upon. 
> Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get well. Doctors 
> should not interfere. They could take a page out of the bible and put it 
> inside the wound.

    There is a bomb in Gilead
    Which makes a wounded hole
      -- a child's mis-interpretation

    If you pray hard enough, you can make water flow uphill.
    How hard do you have to pray?  Why, hard enough to make
    water flow uphill, of course.
      -- Robert A. Heinlein

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#88995

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 22:49 +0000
Message-ID<113rhek$3bo6k$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88984
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:22 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

>     If you pray hard enough, you can make water flow uphill. How
>     hard do you have to pray? Why, hard enough to make water flow
>     uphill, of course.
>       -- Robert A. Heinlein

There was this YouTube video, posted just after the 2020 🇺🇸
Presidential elections, when it had already become clear Trump had
lost, where some supporter of his was begging all his loyal followers
to pray, for the result to be overturned somehow.

I posted a comment about how faith is supposed to be able to move
mountains, but can it change the laws of arithmetic?

Some of the responses were ... creatively off-point.

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#88991

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-22 18:29 +0000
Message-ID<nccggrFuaclU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88975
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:42:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned upon.
> Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get well. Doctors
> should not interfere. They could take a page out of the bible and put it
> inside the wound.

You wouldn't have to go far in the US to find that belief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science

Some adherents are more extreme than others. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_handling_in_Christianity

I don't think the Snake Strokers are big on doctors either. Benny Hinn has 
done very well with faith healing although his followers may use doctors. 
It's not limited to Protestant sects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupr%C3%A9

The church features a collection of crutches and so forth. I haven't been 
there in over 50 years so they may have added mobility scooters. We went 
to Quebec for our honeymoon and Ste. Anne's is one of the local 
attractions. My wife was not Catholic and found it interesting. There is 
an outdoor Stations of the Cross, iirc. They also have a replica of the 
“Scala Santa”. It's a wooden staircase with 28 steps that you climb on 
your knees while saying the Rosary.

Turnabout is fair play. After we separated she joined a church that 
featured speaking in tongues and spontaneous yells of 'Praise Jesus!' and 
the like. I was as comfortable as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

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#88994

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 22:46 +0000
Message-ID<113rh7v$3bo6k$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88975
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:42:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned
> upon. Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get
> well. Doctors should not interfere. They could take a page out of
> the bible and put it inside the wound.

When anaesthetic was invented, some objected to it on religious
grounds -- because it would let women experience childbirth without
pain. Because there is something in Genesis about how Adam and Eve
were cursed when they were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, and part
of the curse was that women had to suffer during childbirth.

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#88973

FromAndreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
Date2026-07-22 10:21 +0200
Message-ID<87v7a7igdt.fsf@eder.anydns.info>
In reply to#88941
On Di 21 Jul 2026 at 04:13, Rich wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/07/2026 20:39, s|b wrote:
>>> On 20 Jul 2026 18:30:21 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if
>>>> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have
>>>> the capability but China and Russia certainly do.
>>> 
>>> Ukraine has drones that can fly over 3.000 km, so if Iran has those,
>>> then those carriers will have to park them even further.
>>> 
>> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science.
>
> Which is odd, given that a great number of centuries ago, the Islamic 
> world of that age was inventing scientific breakthrough after 
> scientific breakthrough.
>
> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the extremists) 
> is what does not mesh well with science.  Islam of yore did mesh well.  
> Something changed in the centries from then to now.

It hasn't got much to do with Islam per se, it is more the 'strict' that
is important. Look at the Evangelicals in the U.S..

'Andreas

-- 
ceterum censeo redmondinem esse delendam

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#88974

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 13:39 +0200
Message-ID<ncbofuFc5a2U8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88973
On 2026-07-22 10:21, Andreas Eder wrote:
> On Di 21 Jul 2026 at 04:13, Rich wrote:
> 
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2026 20:39, s|b wrote:
>>>> On 20 Jul 2026 18:30:21 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if
>>>>> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have
>>>>> the capability but China and Russia certainly do.
>>>>
>>>> Ukraine has drones that can fly over 3.000 km, so if Iran has those,
>>>> then those carriers will have to park them even further.
>>>>
>>> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science.
>>
>> Which is odd, given that a great number of centuries ago, the Islamic
>> world of that age was inventing scientific breakthrough after
>> scientific breakthrough.
>>
>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the extremists)
>> is what does not mesh well with science.  Islam of yore did mesh well.
>> Something changed in the centries from then to now.
> 
> It hasn't got much to do with Islam per se, it is more the 'strict' that
> is important. Look at the Evangelicals in the U.S..

A room of them imposing their hands (or something) on Trump.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88988

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-22 17:54 +0000
Message-ID<nccedsFuaclU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88973
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 10:21:34 +0200, Andreas Eder wrote:

> It hasn't got much to do with Islam per se, it is more the 'strict' that
> is important. Look at the Evangelicals in the U.S..

There is a state park in the eastern part of the state with many fossil 
remains including T. Rex and Triceratops. Interpretive trails explain the 
history and geology.

On the other side of the small town there is a museum claiming the 
dinosaurs and humans coexisted and Noah may have rounded some up for the 
ark. A foundation run by are governor has been generous, including 
donating a T. Rex replica.

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#88956

From"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 22:30 +0200
Message-ID<nca36oFj7idU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88932
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:53:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science.

That's a misconception. Why do you think Israel bombed schools and
universities in Iran? It's not because they were harbouring nukes. IIRC
a lot of women graduated from those universities, even more than men.

-- 
s|b

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#88919

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 12:24 +0100
Message-ID<113l0hq$14e0h$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88909
On 19/07/2026 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>     Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit
>>>     and take forever to build.
>>
>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'  Estimates
>> vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you
>> use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's chicken
>> feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk.
> 
> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now

UK already has them

> for that
> reason, but I'm just waiting for drones/missiles to arrive sporting
> mirrors designed to reflect those beams back and set fire to things
> on the ground instead.
> 
Not very aerodynamic.
Easier to buzz along hugging the terrain.

Your general purpose drone deploys photovoltaic 'wings' by day and 
crawls, swims or flies towards its target until it smells the particular 
DNA combination in the air, when its off like a bloodhound to its 
intended target, and it's bye bye Trump, or Putin, or Justin Bieber...

-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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#88924

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-20 18:01 +0000
Message-ID<nc7649F4a0qU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88919
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:24:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 19/07/2026 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>     Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per
>>>>     unit and take forever to build.
>>>
>>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'
>>> Estimates vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around
>>> $50K. When you use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up
>>> fast. That's chicken feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk.
>> 
>> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now
> 
> UK already has them

DragonFire might be operational next year and may live up to the hype. 
Apparently US air defense systems aren't 100% successful, The media seem 
reluctant to examine the repercussions of Iran hitting US assets in 
Jordan.

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#88930

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 20:21 +0000
Message-ID<113m00c$1fdi4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88924
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:24:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 19/07/2026 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>     Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per 
>>>>>     unit and take forever to build.
>>>>
>>>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.' 
>>>> Estimates vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs 
>>>> around $50K.  When you use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the 
>>>> costs add up fast.  That's chicken feed compared to the cost of a 
>>>> Tomahawk.
>>> 
>>> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now
>> 
>> UK already has them
> 
> DragonFire might be operational next year and may live up to the 
> hype.  Apparently US air defense systems aren't 100% successful, The 
> media seem reluctant to examine the repercussions of Iran hitting US 
> assets in Jordan.

And therein lies the problem with "swarms of cheap drones".  The 
attacker can build, and launch, 50 "low cost drones" (granted, $50k 
seems a lot, but it is 'low cost' as compared to a US Military missle 
of 5M and up each) at an attack target.

The drone defense has to be 100% perfect every time because if even one 
drone survives to its target, some damage will be taken by the target.  
And it is very unlikely *any* of the air/drone defense systems are 100% 
perfect every time.

Plus, if the "drone defence" is firing anything that is more costly to 
build than the drone itself, then there is a significant asymetric cost 
factor applied to the defender as well.

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#88934

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 01:21 +0000
Message-ID<nc7vtbF7pt3U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88930
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:21:32 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> Plus, if the "drone defence" is firing anything that is more costly to
> build than the drone itself, then there is a significant asymetric cost
> factor applied to the defender as well.

They are more flying sewer pipes than drones but taking out a $500 Qassam 
rocket with a $50,000 Tamir missile is asymmetric. A Qassam can't hit the 
proverbial broad side of a barn but it might get lucky and hit something 
other than a sheep so they can't be ignored. 

Something that might actually hit a HVT ups the game considerably.

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#88943

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 04:22 +0000
Message-ID<113ms5i$1n2nt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88934
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:21:32 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> Plus, if the "drone defence" is firing anything that is more costly to
>> build than the drone itself, then there is a significant asymetric cost
>> factor applied to the defender as well.
> 
> They are more flying sewer pipes than drones but taking out a $500 Qassam 
> rocket with a $50,000 Tamir missile is asymmetric. A Qassam can't hit the 
> proverbial broad side of a barn but it might get lucky and hit something 
> other than a sheep so they can't be ignored. 
> 
> Something that might actually hit a HVT ups the game considerably.

Yeah, if the accuracy increases (and it does not need to increase much 
to become a real danger) that very much changes things.

But even so, at a 100:1 cost ratio, someone can lob 100 Qassam rockets 
towards a single target for the price of one Tamir missle.  Even if the 
Tamir could somehow take out 99 of the Qassam's (it can't) that still 
leaves one that will explode somewhere the defender really does not 
want explosions happening.

If two Tamir's are used against the swarm, then the swarm could be 200 
large before it again cost the same as the two missles.  And two 
missles won't take out all 200 incoming, so still, one or more 
explosions somewhere you'd rather not have any explosions.

The "swarm offense" with cheap weapons creates a very different 
battlefield than the traditional one where both sides are lobbing 
ordinance at roughly the same rate and roughly the same cost per lob.

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