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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #88894 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-07-18 19:38 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-07-19 04:32 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 132 — 14 participants |
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Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 01:29 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 22:09 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-07-20 08:55 +1000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-20 00:52 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:13 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:20 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 17:49 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 16:12 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:30 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:36 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:31 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:32 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:29 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:47 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:05 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:16 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:27 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:18 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 03:16 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:33 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 07:22 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:52 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:56 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:06 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:00 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:51 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:31 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:07 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:49 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:39 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:26 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:54 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:10 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:53 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 02:06 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:33 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:13 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:36 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:29 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 20:45 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:48 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:32 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 00:02 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:50 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 17:04 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:35 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:41 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:14 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:22 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-23 08:26 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:00 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:54 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:57 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:44 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:57 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 17:08 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:29 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:49 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:34 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:57 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:22 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:59 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:51 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:51 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:43 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:33 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:32 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-24 13:59 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 22:09 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-25 05:02 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-25 12:48 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:37 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 15:55 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 14:58 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 16:53 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 15:59 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-21 11:40 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:07 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 01:19 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:32 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 08:31 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:42 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:49 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:29 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:46 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-22 10:21 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:39 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:54 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:30 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 12:24 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:01 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:21 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:21 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:22 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:22 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-07-21 08:39 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:53 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:25 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 04:04 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-22 04:17 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:09 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:45 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:31 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:01 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 22:05 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:44 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:10 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:15 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:49 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:27 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:44 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:05 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:09 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:44 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:39 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 07:15 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 21:32 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:00 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 21:43 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:42 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:24 +0200
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:10 -0400
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:34 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:55 +0000
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-19 03:58 +0100
Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 04:32 +0000
Page 5 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 Next page →
| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 11:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nc8t3jFc5a3U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88941 |
On 2026-07-21 06:13, Rich wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 20/07/2026 20:39, s|b wrote:
>>> On 20 Jul 2026 18:30:21 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if
>>>> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have
>>>> the capability but China and Russia certainly do.
>>>
>>> Ukraine has drones that can fly over 3.000 km, so if Iran has those,
>>> then those carriers will have to park them even further.
>>>
>> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science.
>
> Which is odd, given that a great number of centuries ago, the Islamic
> world of that age was inventing scientific breakthrough after
> scientific breakthrough.
They also transmitted a lot of knowledge, starting with the Arabic
number system that we use today. It was invented in India. To transmit
something you have to understand it.
They also had better doctors than Christianity.
>
> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the extremists)
> is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore did mesh well.
> Something changed in the centries from then to now.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 18:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nc9qroF7pt3U10@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88950 |
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: > They also transmitted a lot of knowledge, starting with the Arabic > number system that we use today. It was invented in India. To transmit > something you have to understand it. > > They also had better doctors than Christianity. The sad part is Jews did better under Islamic regimes than Christian. It wasn't the Moors that forced the Jews to leave or pretend to be converted in Spain in 1492. That was probably true until 1948.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 01:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <113p5rd$2fnb0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88950 |
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the >> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore >> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now. The interpretation changed. When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books. The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.” And then, just a couple centuries later, the thinking changed, and the Islamic Golden Age of scholarship and learning -- the origins of science as we know it today -- began. Then, a few centuries after that, the thinking changed again, and the Golden Age ended. And just about at this point, the thinking in the Christian world changed, too. And so we got the Italian Renaissance -- founded on many of the ideas from the older Islamic learning, don’t forget. It was the Islamic world that had kept the old Greek learning alive (and was busily adding to it), while the Christian idea of “learning” was making endless over-decorated copies of their holy book. Moral: You can take exactly the same holy teachings, and selectively use parts of them to justify entirely opposite and contradictory intellectual positions. We saw that happen with both the Muslims and the Christians. And it happens with Jews as well. Religous argument is circular argument.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 21:32 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jP2dnfKytY-dg_33nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88963 |
On 7/21/26 21:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: > >>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the >>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore >>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now. > > The interpretation changed. > > When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of > what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the > Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message > back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books. > > The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which > case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case > they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.” Yep. Still hope that, somewhere, backup copies of all that stuff were safely stashed away in an obscure desert cave. Ptolemy-II ordered that any ships coming into Alexandria with books ... the books HAD to be delivered to the library to be COPIED before the originals were returned. So, the concept of 'backups' wasn't alien even back then. Islam is made to be more radical/purist/evangelical than even Christianity. EARLY Islamic civ was high on its successes and this tended to help the sciences. But once the advances stalled, POWER was retained by getting really fundy.
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| From | Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 08:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <wwvtspra3an.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> |
| In reply to | #88963 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: >>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the >>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore >>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now. > > The interpretation changed. > > When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of > what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the > Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message > back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books. > > The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which > case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case > they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.” Do you have a contemporary source for that? They library was almost certainly gone before the end of the C3rd, the conquest of Alexandria was in the C7th, and the anecdote you quote doesn’t turn up until the C13th, one of a number of dubiuosly evidenced attempts to pin the damage on one religion another. -- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 13:42 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ncbolnFc5a3U6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88963 |
On 2026-07-22 03:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:40:03 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the
>>> extremists) is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore
>>> did mesh well. Something changed in the centries from then to now.
>
> The interpretation changed.
>
> When the Arabs conquered Alexandria, and found the pitiful remnants of
> what had once been the Great Library (what was left after the
> Christians had done with it), the conquering general sent a message
> back to the Caliph, asking what to do with with the remaining books.
>
> The message came back: “Either they agree with the Quran, in which
> case they are superfluous, or they disagree with it, in which case
> they are undesirable. In any case, destroy them.”
>
> And then, just a couple centuries later, the thinking changed, and the
> Islamic Golden Age of scholarship and learning -- the origins of
> science as we know it today -- began. Then, a few centuries after
> that, the thinking changed again, and the Golden Age ended.
>
> And just about at this point, the thinking in the Christian world
> changed, too. And so we got the Italian Renaissance -- founded on many
> of the ideas from the older Islamic learning, don’t forget. It was the
> Islamic world that had kept the old Greek learning alive (and was
> busily adding to it), while the Christian idea of “learning” was
> making endless over-decorated copies of their holy book.
There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned upon.
Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get well. Doctors
should not interfere. They could take a page out of the bible and put it
inside the wound.
>
> Moral: You can take exactly the same holy teachings, and selectively
> use parts of them to justify entirely opposite and contradictory
> intellectual positions. We saw that happen with both the Muslims and
> the Christians. And it happens with Jews as well.
>
> Religous argument is circular argument.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <Ky48S.463809$khyb.404106@fx44.iad> |
| In reply to | #88975 |
On 2026-07-22, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned upon.
> Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get well. Doctors
> should not interfere. They could take a page out of the bible and put it
> inside the wound.
There is a bomb in Gilead
Which makes a wounded hole
-- a child's mis-interpretation
If you pray hard enough, you can make water flow uphill.
How hard do you have to pray? Why, hard enough to make
water flow uphill, of course.
-- Robert A. Heinlein
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people:
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 22:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <113rhek$3bo6k$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88984 |
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:22 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > If you pray hard enough, you can make water flow uphill. How > hard do you have to pray? Why, hard enough to make water flow > uphill, of course. > -- Robert A. Heinlein There was this YouTube video, posted just after the 2020 🇺🇸 Presidential elections, when it had already become clear Trump had lost, where some supporter of his was begging all his loyal followers to pray, for the result to be overturned somehow. I posted a comment about how faith is supposed to be able to move mountains, but can it change the laws of arithmetic? Some of the responses were ... creatively off-point.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 18:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nccggrFuaclU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88975 |
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:42:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: > There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned upon. > Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get well. Doctors > should not interfere. They could take a page out of the bible and put it > inside the wound. You wouldn't have to go far in the US to find that belief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science Some adherents are more extreme than others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_handling_in_Christianity I don't think the Snake Strokers are big on doctors either. Benny Hinn has done very well with faith healing although his followers may use doctors. It's not limited to Protestant sects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupr%C3%A9 The church features a collection of crutches and so forth. I haven't been there in over 50 years so they may have added mobility scooters. We went to Quebec for our honeymoon and Ste. Anne's is one of the local attractions. My wife was not Catholic and found it interesting. There is an outdoor Stations of the Cross, iirc. They also have a replica of the “Scala Santa”. It's a wooden staircase with 28 steps that you climb on your knees while saying the Rosary. Turnabout is fair play. After we separated she joined a church that featured speaking in tongues and spontaneous yells of 'Praise Jesus!' and the like. I was as comfortable as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 22:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <113rh7v$3bo6k$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88975 |
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:42:47 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: > There was a time in the Christian world where doctors were frowned > upon. Either god gave you health, or not. You just prayed to get > well. Doctors should not interfere. They could take a page out of > the bible and put it inside the wound. When anaesthetic was invented, some objected to it on religious grounds -- because it would let women experience childbirth without pain. Because there is something in Genesis about how Adam and Eve were cursed when they were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, and part of the curse was that women had to suffer during childbirth.
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| From | Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 10:21 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <87v7a7igdt.fsf@eder.anydns.info> |
| In reply to | #88941 |
On Di 21 Jul 2026 at 04:13, Rich wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On 20/07/2026 20:39, s|b wrote: >>> On 20 Jul 2026 18:30:21 GMT, rbowman wrote: >>> >>>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if >>>> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have >>>> the capability but China and Russia certainly do. >>> >>> Ukraine has drones that can fly over 3.000 km, so if Iran has those, >>> then those carriers will have to park them even further. >>> >> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science. > > Which is odd, given that a great number of centuries ago, the Islamic > world of that age was inventing scientific breakthrough after > scientific breakthrough. > > Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the extremists) > is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore did mesh well. > Something changed in the centries from then to now. It hasn't got much to do with Islam per se, it is more the 'strict' that is important. Look at the Evangelicals in the U.S.. 'Andreas -- ceterum censeo redmondinem esse delendam
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 13:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ncbofuFc5a2U8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88973 |
On 2026-07-22 10:21, Andreas Eder wrote:
> On Di 21 Jul 2026 at 04:13, Rich wrote:
>
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2026 20:39, s|b wrote:
>>>> On 20 Jul 2026 18:30:21 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if
>>>>> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have
>>>>> the capability but China and Russia certainly do.
>>>>
>>>> Ukraine has drones that can fly over 3.000 km, so if Iran has those,
>>>> then those carriers will have to park them even further.
>>>>
>>> We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science.
>>
>> Which is odd, given that a great number of centuries ago, the Islamic
>> world of that age was inventing scientific breakthrough after
>> scientific breakthrough.
>>
>> Modern Islam (at least the current 'strict' reading by the extremists)
>> is what does not mesh well with science. Islam of yore did mesh well.
>> Something changed in the centries from then to now.
>
> It hasn't got much to do with Islam per se, it is more the 'strict' that
> is important. Look at the Evangelicals in the U.S..
A room of them imposing their hands (or something) on Trump.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-22 17:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nccedsFuaclU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88973 |
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 10:21:34 +0200, Andreas Eder wrote: > It hasn't got much to do with Islam per se, it is more the 'strict' that > is important. Look at the Evangelicals in the U.S.. There is a state park in the eastern part of the state with many fossil remains including T. Rex and Triceratops. Interpretive trails explain the history and geology. On the other side of the small town there is a museum claiming the dinosaurs and humans coexisted and Noah may have rounded some up for the ark. A foundation run by are governor has been generous, including donating a T. Rex replica.
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| From | "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nca36oFj7idU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88932 |
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:53:04 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > We can be thankful that Islam does not mesh well with Science. That's a misconception. Why do you think Israel bombed schools and universities in Iran? It's not because they were harbouring nukes. IIRC a lot of women graduated from those universities, even more than men. -- s|b
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-20 12:24 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <113l0hq$14e0h$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88909 |
On 19/07/2026 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>> Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit >>> and take forever to build. >> >> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.' Estimates >> vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you >> use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's chicken >> feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk. > > The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now UK already has them > for that > reason, but I'm just waiting for drones/missiles to arrive sporting > mirrors designed to reflect those beams back and set fire to things > on the ground instead. > Not very aerodynamic. Easier to buzz along hugging the terrain. Your general purpose drone deploys photovoltaic 'wings' by day and crawls, swims or flies towards its target until it smells the particular DNA combination in the air, when its off like a bloodhound to its intended target, and it's bye bye Trump, or Putin, or Justin Bieber... -- How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. Adolf Hitler
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-20 18:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nc7649F4a0qU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88919 |
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:24:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 19/07/2026 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>>> Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per >>>> unit and take forever to build. >>> >>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.' >>> Estimates vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around >>> $50K. When you use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up >>> fast. That's chicken feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk. >> >> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now > > UK already has them DragonFire might be operational next year and may live up to the hype. Apparently US air defense systems aren't 100% successful, The media seem reluctant to examine the repercussions of Iran hitting US assets in Jordan.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-20 20:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <113m00c$1fdi4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88924 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:24:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 19/07/2026 23:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>>>> Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per >>>>> unit and take forever to build. >>>> >>>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.' >>>> Estimates vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs >>>> around $50K. When you use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the >>>> costs add up fast. That's chicken feed compared to the cost of a >>>> Tomahawk. >>> >>> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now >> >> UK already has them > > DragonFire might be operational next year and may live up to the > hype. Apparently US air defense systems aren't 100% successful, The > media seem reluctant to examine the repercussions of Iran hitting US > assets in Jordan. And therein lies the problem with "swarms of cheap drones". The attacker can build, and launch, 50 "low cost drones" (granted, $50k seems a lot, but it is 'low cost' as compared to a US Military missle of 5M and up each) at an attack target. The drone defense has to be 100% perfect every time because if even one drone survives to its target, some damage will be taken by the target. And it is very unlikely *any* of the air/drone defense systems are 100% perfect every time. Plus, if the "drone defence" is firing anything that is more costly to build than the drone itself, then there is a significant asymetric cost factor applied to the defender as well.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 01:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nc7vtbF7pt3U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88930 |
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:21:32 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > Plus, if the "drone defence" is firing anything that is more costly to > build than the drone itself, then there is a significant asymetric cost > factor applied to the defender as well. They are more flying sewer pipes than drones but taking out a $500 Qassam rocket with a $50,000 Tamir missile is asymmetric. A Qassam can't hit the proverbial broad side of a barn but it might get lucky and hit something other than a sheep so they can't be ignored. Something that might actually hit a HVT ups the game considerably.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 04:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <113ms5i$1n2nt$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88934 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:21:32 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > >> Plus, if the "drone defence" is firing anything that is more costly to >> build than the drone itself, then there is a significant asymetric cost >> factor applied to the defender as well. > > They are more flying sewer pipes than drones but taking out a $500 Qassam > rocket with a $50,000 Tamir missile is asymmetric. A Qassam can't hit the > proverbial broad side of a barn but it might get lucky and hit something > other than a sheep so they can't be ignored. > > Something that might actually hit a HVT ups the game considerably. Yeah, if the accuracy increases (and it does not need to increase much to become a real danger) that very much changes things. But even so, at a 100:1 cost ratio, someone can lob 100 Qassam rockets towards a single target for the price of one Tamir missle. Even if the Tamir could somehow take out 99 of the Qassam's (it can't) that still leaves one that will explode somewhere the defender really does not want explosions happening. If two Tamir's are used against the swarm, then the swarm could be 200 large before it again cost the same as the two missles. And two missles won't take out all 200 incoming, so still, one or more explosions somewhere you'd rather not have any explosions. The "swarm offense" with cheap weapons creates a very different battlefield than the traditional one where both sides are lobbing ordinance at roughly the same rate and roughly the same cost per lob.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-21 07:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nc8l25F7pt3U7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88943 |
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 04:22:11 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > The "swarm offense" with cheap weapons creates a very different > battlefield than the traditional one where both sides are lobbing > ordinance at roughly the same rate and roughly the same cost per lob. The lobs get a little pricey. The Zumwalt class ships were designed around the Advanced Gun System. The ships themselves had problems and had to call AAA for a tow home a couple of times. Then the Navy realized the AGS took very special ammunition at around a million a pop. The program was scrapped and the AGS systems removed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Gun_System BAE and Lockheed smiled all the way to the bank. They didn't even have the possible problem of the systems not working well.I don't think the Long- Range Hypersonic Weapon is ready for prime time yet. There was talk about using it against Iran. The existing HIMARS launched missiles don't have enough range. Fortunately the Navy still has the Arleigh-Burke class. They were going to stop building them before the Zumwalt class fell on its face.
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