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WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be

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  WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-04 18:23 +0000
    Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-04 18:41 +0000
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:36 +0100
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 01:31 -0400
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-05 18:07 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:15 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-05 19:11 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 00:54 +0100
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-05 19:08 +0000
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:02 +0000
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 02:00 -0400
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-05 19:17 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-06 00:30 +0000
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 12:42 +0100
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 13:35 +0200
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-05 12:41 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 15:12 +0200
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-05 13:55 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 15:11 +0100
                  Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:49 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 23:42 +0000
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:47 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:39 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 00:44 +0100
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 17:50 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-06 21:11 +0000
                  Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 21:54 +0000
                    Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-07 00:25 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-07 08:57 +0100
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 21:47 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-06 13:10 +0200
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-06 21:13 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-06 23:57 +0200
                  Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-07 00:22 +0000
                    Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-07 08:27 +0200
                      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-07 06:54 +0000
                        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-07 10:59 +0200
    Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 09:33 -0700
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-06 18:59 +0000
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 12:43 -0700
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 21:54 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-07 03:41 +0000
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-07 09:02 +0100

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#88697 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:55:56 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

> Eg is WSL on MS-Windows like WINE on Linux?

WSL 1 was kind of an analogue of WINE in reverse -- emulating Linux
APIs on top of the Windows kernel.

It never worked very well.

With WSL 2 and 3, there is a full actual Linux kernel running within a
VM under Windows. You can install Ubuntu and I think some other
supported distros. Even GUI apps work, I believe.

WSL 2 didn’t offer good filesystem performance. One of the
improvements in WSL 3 is less Windows code getting in the way between
the Linux kernel and native Linux filesystems.

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#88689 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just
> click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those
> same applications could also run on Linux proper.

I haven't used WSL in a year of so but I believe they've made the process 
easier.

https://granule.medium.com/wsl2-gui-app-shortcuts-in-windows-with-wslg-
fcc66d3134e7

WSL is a fast moving target. In the earlier iterations if you wanted a GUI 
you have to install a third party X server and get it running. Unlike many 
Microsoft enthusiasms the WSL project seems to have staying power.

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#88688 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 12:41:18 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying
> to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL
> is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the
> "typical"
> MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install
> Linux and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install
> MS-Windows just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows
> versions of Linux programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools
> to cross-build on Linux targeting MS-Windows.

A real use case: The wifi service available at shows is expensive and 
often not very reliable. Maps assume you are downloading tiles from a tile 
server, in our case Esri. You sued to be able to see the tiles assembling 
with a slow connection as each tile of the basemap was downloaded and 
rendered.

The marketing people were firmly rooted in Windows so the demo setup was 
installed on their laptops so they could do the dog and pony show, but 
displaying the map was problematic with crappy wifi.

https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-
debian-13/

Building a tile server is a well documented path -- for Linux distors. In 
theory PostGIS, Mapnik, and so forth are available on Windows and you 
could possibly set up the server but there would be a lot of cut'n'try.

I'd recently purchased a Beelink mini for my own use and originally 
thought about using one for the tile server. Given the budget for trade 
shows, $350 was noise. However that would be one more piece of gear to be 
shipped to the show and set up. Marketing always goes through many 
practice sessions so the show will go smoothly. Not. 

I created a WSL instance on a marketing laptop, gathered the data for the 
PA county that matched the demo data, and hooked it up. MS actually has 
improved the IP connections between the Windows and WSL sections but that 
was the hardest part. The result was one laptop completely set up so all 
the marketing people had to do was turn it on and plug in the external 
monitors. If they didn't lose them along the way.

I'm sure there are more cases. On AWS a Linux instance is much cheaper 
than a Windows one so it's cheaper to run everything that can be done on 
Linux. During the development phase it's convenient to simulate the cloud 
locally and that can often be done with WSL.

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#88698 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-05, Robert Heller wrote:


> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
> entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
> going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
> MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
> and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
> just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
> programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
> targeting MS-Windows.

They may be trying to retain people who would otherwise turn down
Windows NT because it could not cater to their workflows.

This is hardly a new idea at Microsoft, and may actually be a not so bad
idea, it's usually the implementation that can be less than stellar.

... or, most notably, they can well buy or license the whole thing from
somebody else and get something decent enough without having to go
through the trouble of creating it... and then they send a *Microsoft*
sales rep, or, say, a *Microsoft* Product Manager to promote it and do
something stupid.

Remember when a Microsoft Product Manager insisted that "their" "Korn"
shell was "fully compatible", even doubling down, when a person in the
audience pointed out that it wasn't?

That person being David Korn.

It sometimes is truly amazing how well Microsoft can screw things up.

<gopher://gopher.quux.org/0/Humor%20and%20Fun/Microsoft_KSH.txt%7C/MBOX-MESSAGE/1>

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#88725 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-05, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Remember when a Microsoft Product Manager insisted that "their" "Korn"
> shell was "fully compatible", even doubling down, when a person in the
> audience pointed out that it wasn't?
>
> That person being David Korn.

Wow.

> It sometimes is truly amazing how well Microsoft can screw things up.

To keep myself on the rails I often remind myself of Hanlon's Razor:

    Never ascribe to malice that which can
    adequately be explained by stupidity.

Then a little voice in the back of my mind says,
"But Microsoft isn't stupid!"

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  No artificial
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  intelligence was
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  used in the creation
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  of this post.

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#88733 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> To keep myself on the rails I often remind myself of Hanlon's Razor:
>
>     Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained
>     by stupidity.
>
> Then a little voice in the back of my mind says, "But Microsoft
> isn't stupid!"

Individual intelligence can often add up to collective stupidity. All
too often, in fact: like when the decisions of individual drivers on
the road add up to a collective traffic jam.

Well, you could think of Microsoft’s current state as kind of a
corporate traffic jam.

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#88735 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> To keep myself on the rails I often remind myself of Hanlon's Razor:
>>
>>     Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained
>>     by stupidity.
>>
>> Then a little voice in the back of my mind says, "But Microsoft
>> isn't stupid!"
>
> Individual intelligence can often add up to collective stupidity. All
> too often, in fact: like when the decisions of individual drivers on
> the road add up to a collective traffic jam.
>
> Well, you could think of Microsoft’s current state as kind of a
> corporate traffic jam.

I've always wondered about a formula for the collective intelligence
of a group of people.  It certainly would not be simply the sum of
their IQs; you'd have to divide it by some other factor, perhaps
the log or the square root of the number of people.  Or maybe the
factor would have to rise more quickly so that the collective IQ
starts decreasing beyond a certain point.

    A committee is a life form with six or more legs
    and no brain.
      -- Heinlein: The Notebooks of Lazarus Long


-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  No artificial
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  intelligence was
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  used in the creation
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  of this post.

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#88739 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 21:54:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Individual intelligence can often add up to collective stupidity.
>> All too often, in fact: like when the decisions of individual
>> drivers on the road add up to a collective traffic jam.
>
> I've always wondered about a formula for the collective intelligence
> of a group of people.

It would depend greatly on the organizational structure connecting
them together. The phrase “designed by a committee” is a cliché for
clunky outcomes, but some committees have produced quite remarkable
results -- Algol-60 being an outstanding early example.

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#88749 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 06/07/2026 18:50, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-07-05, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Remember when a Microsoft Product Manager insisted that "their" "Korn"
>> shell was "fully compatible", even doubling down, when a person in the
>> audience pointed out that it wasn't?
>>
>> That person being David Korn.
> 
> Wow.
> 
>> It sometimes is truly amazing how well Microsoft can screw things up.
> 
> To keep myself on the rails I often remind myself of Hanlon's Razor:
> 
>      Never ascribe to malice that which can
>      adequately be explained by stupidity.
> 
> Then a little voice in the back of my mind says,
> "But Microsoft isn't stupid!"
> 
Microsoft is not a monolithic entity.

Plenty of stupid people work there.



-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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#88695

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.

Luckily, you don’t have to worry about that particular example in your
part of the world, just as we don’t need to worry about it in our part
of the world. 😏

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#88708

On 2026-07-05 23:47, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
>> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
> 
> Luckily, you don’t have to worry about that particular example in your
> part of the world, just as we don’t need to worry about it in our part
> of the world. 😏

That particular one, no, true. I have two or three of my own:

  - purchasing epubs with drm from a bookshop needs using ADE, adobe 
digital editions.

  - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.

  - Kobo tools are Windows only.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88734

On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 13:10:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2026-07-05 23:47, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist
>>> for Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
>>
>> Luckily, you don’t have to worry about that particular example in
>> your part of the world, just as we don’t need to worry about it in
>> our part of the world. 😏
>
> That particular one, no, true. I have two or three of my own:
>
>   - purchasing epubs with drm from a bookshop needs using ADE, adobe
> digital editions.

I thought copy-protection on e-books was a long-solved problem:
Calibre can basically crack anything.

>   - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.

Just ignore the JavaScript part.

>   - Kobo tools are Windows only.

Again, Calibre claims to be able to cope with that.

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#88737

On 2026-07-06 23:13, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 13:10:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-07-05 23:47, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist
>>>> for Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
>>>
>>> Luckily, you don’t have to worry about that particular example in
>>> your part of the world, just as we don’t need to worry about it in
>>> our part of the world. 😏
>>
>> That particular one, no, true. I have two or three of my own:
>>
>>    - purchasing epubs with drm from a bookshop needs using ADE, adobe
>> digital editions.
> 
> I thought copy-protection on e-books was a long-solved problem:
> Calibre can basically crack anything.

Yes and no. First you have to obtain the file. Then a third party add on 
to calibre can crack it. The crack I know works only on Windows.

I buy my books legally, and install them in my devices legally. Then I 
make a backup.

> 
>>    - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.
> 
> Just ignore the JavaScript part.

Can't. For legal documents, it is mandatory.

> 
>>    - Kobo tools are Windows only.
> 
> Again, Calibre claims to be able to cope with that.

If you do buy books, no. And I do buy all my books.

Also, if you have a problem withe the kobo and supports tell you to 
enter debug mode or something, that's only with Windows.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88738

On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 23:57:34 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2026-07-06 23:13, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 13:10:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>>    - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.
>>
>> Just ignore the JavaScript part.
>
> Can't. For legal documents, it is mandatory.

I don’t see how they can tell.

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#88744

On 2026-07-07 02:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 23:57:34 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-07-06 23:13, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 13:10:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>>     - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.
>>>
>>> Just ignore the JavaScript part.
>>
>> Can't. For legal documents, it is mandatory.
> 
> I don’t see how they can tell.

Dot matrix not generated, for instance.

Calculations not generated.

Data verification not done,

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88746

On Tue, 7 Jul 2026 08:27:53 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2026-07-07 02:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 23:57:34 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-07-06 23:13, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 13:10:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.
>>>>
>>>> Just ignore the JavaScript part.
>>>
>>> Can't. For legal documents, it is mandatory.
>>
>> I don’t see how they can tell.
>
> Dot matrix not generated, for instance.
>
> Calculations not generated.
>
> Data verification not done,

All that can be done from reverse-engineering the JavaScript.

I can’t imagine they would put large amounts of code into an untrusted
file ...

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#88752

On 2026-07-07 08:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2026 08:27:53 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-07-07 02:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 23:57:34 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2026-07-06 23:13, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 13:10:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>      - reading PDF forms that use javascript, needs Adobe Reader.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just ignore the JavaScript part.
>>>>
>>>> Can't. For legal documents, it is mandatory.
>>>
>>> I don’t see how they can tell.
>>
>> Dot matrix not generated, for instance.
>>
>> Calculations not generated.
>>
>> Data verification not done,
> 
> All that can be done from reverse-engineering the JavaScript.

That's not something I will ever do.

I have two practical solutions:

  1) Use Windows
  2) Pay someone to do it for me.

I did #2. Filling the forms was actually complicated. I hired a 
professional expert on such taxes.

> 
> I can’t imagine they would put large amounts of code into an untrusted
> file ...

They actually do. The PDF would be 100MB, say, and with the code, it 
would be 800MB. Or some other size, but a similar proportion, the code 
was 6 or 8 times more than the raw PDF.

And the file was trusted, by the way.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88722

On 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> 
> It must leave a sour taste.

Honestly, I'm not sure if there any any 'Softies left who get invested
in the ol' team-sports tribalism; it's been nigh-on 15 yrs. since Satya
gutted the old guard, and nothing about Win11 gives any suggestion of a
development staff who're actually invested in the end product. Old-
school freenix die-hards might well be the only ones still carrying the
torch for that rivalry, at this point.

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#88727

On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 09:33:11 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-
because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>> 
>> It must leave a sour taste.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not sure if there any any 'Softies left who get invested
> in the ol' team-sports tribalism; it's been nigh-on 15 yrs. since Satya
> gutted the old guard, and nothing about Win11 gives any suggestion of a
> development staff who're actually invested in the end product. Old-
> school freenix die-hards might well be the only ones still carrying the
> torch for that rivalry, at this point.

There may be a few hiding in the closets but it is a different company 
under Nadella.  With the revenue up 17% year over year I doubt many are 
questioning his leadership.

Azure, Teams, Office, LinkedIn, and CoPilot are cash cows. MS isn't 
forthcoming about the product mix but the guess is Windows 11, bot OEM and 
enterprise sales, are about 10%. 

It's more than WSL. VS Code is very popular and is cross platform. Purists 
can use Codium or Cose OSS. I did find that since Codium doesn't use the 
MS repository for extensions, not all are available. I did add them to get 
the CircuitPython extension but it had problems so I went back to Code.

Dotnet is available on Linux. The ability to create desktop GUIs isn't 
there yet but ASP.NET works fine. I haven't installed it but SQL Server is 
available on Linux too. 

Ballmer's dog in the manager approach didn't work. I'm reaching but I 
think there may be a cultural implication. Indian culture doesn't lend 
itself to the One True God syndrome. 

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#88730

On 6 Jul 2026 18:59:33 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> I'm reaching but I think there may be a cultural implication. Indian
> culture doesn't lend itself to the One True God syndrome. 

I wouldn't put it down to that - Nadella seems dead convinced he's all
the techno-messiah we'll ever need. But he certainly swept out most of
the Priests of the Old Ways when he took the reins.

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