Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87875 > unrolled thread

Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT !

Started by	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post	2026-06-12 01:49 -0400
Last post	2026-07-06 01:02 -0400
Articles	20 on this page of 154 — 14 participants

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  Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 07:54 +0200
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 02:12 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 09:03 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:25 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:22 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:14 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:45 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:21 -0400
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 04:20 +0000
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-14 14:27 +0200
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 22:51 -0400
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 03:15 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:46 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:16 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-15 17:02 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 19:05 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 20:41 +0100
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 22:21 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 02:00 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 02:55 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:54 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:55 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:07 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:51 +0000
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:34 +0200
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:55 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:14 +0200
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:15 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 20:22 +0200
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 16:47 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:11 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:29 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:09 -0400
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:19 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:09 +0000
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 23:23 -0400
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 07:20 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:26 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:32 +0200
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:44 +0100
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 13:55 +0200
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 17:02 +0100
                                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:37 +0200
                                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 19:14 +0100
                                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 20:50 +0200
                                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:36 +0000
                                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 11:58 +0200
                                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:18 +0000
                                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:45 +0000
                                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 00:22 +0200
                                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 02:27 -0400
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:34 +0000
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 00:01 +0000
                                      Communism ???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-18 21:46 -0700
                                        Re: Communism ???? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 05:59 +0000
                                          Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 02:51 -0400
                                        Re: Communism ???? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 11:51 +0200
                                          Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 23:50 -0400
                                            Re: Communism ???? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-20 08:54 +0200
                                              Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 03:25 -0400
                                        Re: Communism ???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:25 +0100
                                          Re: Communism ???? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 16:41 +0000
                                            Re: Communism ???? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 18:22 +0000
                                          Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:48 -0400
                                        Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:08 -0400
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 12:56 +0100
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 16:41 +0000
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:43 +0000
                                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 18:33 +0000
                                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 02:04 -0400
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:41 +0000
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:21 +0100
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:39 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:50 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:25 +0100
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:00 +0100
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:46 +0000
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:13 -0400
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:33 +0000
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:18 +0100
                                        The Walmart Effect (Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT !) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-19 06:12 -0700
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:44 -0400
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 02:26 -0400
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:26 +0100
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 21:47 -0400
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:13 +0000
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 01:15 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:42 -0400
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:49 -0400
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:51 +0000
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:12 +0100
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:15 +0000
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 00:10 +0100
                                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-20 01:44 +0000
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:42 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:32 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:38 +0200
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:27 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:22 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2026-06-12 09:53 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:34 +0000
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:54 +0200
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:37 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 06:42 +0000
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 04:18 -0400
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 20:21 +0000
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 23:09 -0400
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 06:22 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 03:57 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:38 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:11 +0000
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-14 07:01 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 04:14 -0400
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-14 10:56 +0200
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:40 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-12 13:26 +0000
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2026-06-17 15:43 +0800
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:28 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! bonkmaykr <bonkymaykr@canithesis.org> - 2026-07-04 00:40 -0500
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 05:46 +0000
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-04 10:59 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 23:43 +0000
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 01:59 -0400
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 13:32 +0200
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 19:07 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-06 01:34 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-06 07:29 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-06 13:24 +0200
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 12:44 +0100
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-06 12:31 -0400
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-06 19:12 +0000
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-06 21:59 +0200
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-07 01:18 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 17:50 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-06 19:10 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-07 08:55 +0100
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-07 11:02 +0200
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-07 14:31 +0200
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-07 13:36 +0100
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-07 17:31 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-07 08:54 +0100
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-06 01:02 -0400

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#87977

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
Message-ID	<xFSdnal6L8rwELL3nZ2dnZfqnPgAAAAA@giganews.com>
In reply to	#87965

On 6/14/26 14:38, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:57:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
> 
>>     Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
>>     MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do it if you pay lots of
>>     money.
> 
> I didn't try really hard but VB on Mint didn't go smoothly even after
> blacklisting the kvm module. It bitched about dependencies that looked
> like they would conflict with installed packages. No need when 'apt
> install virt-manager' goes smoothly.
> 
>>     For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea to VM one machine into
>>     10. Hardware FAILS ...
>>     and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down. Been there, seen it,
>>     smelled the smoke coming out of the server.
>>
>>     Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.
> 
> I had a long discussion with one of our senior implementation people.
> Mirroring a VM to another VM on the same box doesn't cover your ass very
> well.
> 
> We used VMs for testing in house. The discussions could get heated if
> someone shutdown a VM they didn't think anyone was using to fire up
> another one.

   Last VM servers I set up, used a very minimal Deb as the
   host and then went from there. It was pretty successful
   but frankly I pref the dedicated-boxes model - more robust.

   Alas ... with the import/tariff wars and lack of memory
   chips, the One Good Box with several VMs on it MAY be
   the more affordable model now.

   Oh wait, just pay M$ to be your "servers" and "backup"
   and "working storage" - that's sure to work out in the
   end, until Xi taps the Big Shiny Red Button on his desk :-)

>>     Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating what I *thought*
>>     would be enough fake disk space I saw I'd already used up like 85%
>>     plus. VBox ... just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
>>     KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files and then two or
>>     three weird/dangerous ops to convince the OS to use the extra space.
>>
>>     So, guess which solution I go with ....
> 
> I skimped with MX and gave it 20 GB. It used 11 G, which is okay for my
> purposed. I also gave it 8 GB of RAM and so far it's used under 1 GB. Not
> bad.

   If you're using VBox then it's super-easy to expand the
   fake disk space. KVM/Xen ... NOT so much.

   ANYhow ... try it out. Don't think you will be disappointed.
   They pretty much Got It Just Right.

   I've tried almost EVERYTHING out there over the past years.
   Some are a little better or worse at whatever. MX seems
   to be the ideal middle-point - add, subtract, tweak a
   bit ... an easy reach. It's where I've settled unless
   I'm intentionally looking for "adventure".

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#87988

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-06-15 07:11 +0000
Message-ID	<n99mtlFrbe7U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#87977

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 01:27:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    I've tried almost EVERYTHING out there over the past years.
>    Some are a little better or worse at whatever. MX seems to be the
>    ideal middle-point - add, subtract, tweak a bit ... an easy reach.
>    It's where I've settled unless I'm intentionally looking for
>    "adventure".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp1W5w6eJi8

The guy makes some good points. Mint for beginners. Ubuntu if you plan to 
work in the field since Ubuntu Server is widely used. He uses Fedora, and 
that also has RHEL in the wings. He loathes Omarchy. Said he was curious 
about CatchOS but is skeptical about it's top rankings on Distrowatch. If 
you're going to use an Arch derivative and really want to learn about 
Linux administration go directly to Arch. Said he used it but it does tend 
to brick sooner or later. 

He mentioned he's always been tempted to try NixOS but doesn't want to 
learn a specialized language to set up a system however he found it 
interesting France decided to use it. For someone looking for a job very 
few organizations use it so being a NixOS wizard doesn't do much on a CV.

I don't think he even mentioned SUSE in passing.

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#87951

From	mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay)
Date	2026-06-14 07:01 +0000
Message-ID	<slrn10tghjm.710.mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net>
In reply to	#87945

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>   Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
>   Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
>   it's a Linux.

I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".  It's a
"you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're compiling
everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has all the same
packages available as any other distro.

The portage package manager is super powerful and flexible.  It has a learning
curve though.  After almost 10 years with it, I can't go back. I find yum/dnf on
Rocky very limiting, and apt has always felt brain-dead to me.

--
Sent from my Personal DECstation 5000/25

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#87954

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-06-14 04:14 -0400
Message-ID	<QAWdnR9oMpKR_rP3nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>
In reply to	#87951

On 6/14/26 03:01, Mechanicjay wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>    Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
>>    Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
>>    it's a Linux.
> 
> I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".

   Look on the net. It's a bit "different", hence ...

> It's a
> "you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're compiling
> everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has all the same
> packages available as any other distro.
> 
> The portage package manager is super powerful and flexible.  It has a learning
> curve though.  After almost 10 years with it, I can't go back. I find yum/dnf on
> Rocky very limiting, and apt has always felt brain-dead to me.

   Don't love the "portage" idea ... smells
   of antique BSD distros.

   IMHO, put it all UP FRONT ALL THE TIME. Don't
   "port" ANYTHING.

   But, still GONNA give it a try. MAYbe I'll like it.
   Too many of the traditional distros have become
   a bit weird for no good reasons. Gotta cultivate
   possible alts, Just In Case.

   SLACK is also there - but it IS a lot of work.
   Getting way too OLD for that. "Just Works OK"
   is my goal now.

   Got Linux distros when they still came on floppies.
   Not my first rodeo, so to speak.

   Not sure how I didn't give GenToo a try before ... went
   to the BSDs instead.

   Anyway, we'll see .......

   Still waiting for a modern updated version of VMS.
   It'll never happen  :-) Have this huge thick small-
   print manual ........

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#87955

From	Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us>
Date	2026-06-14 10:56 +0200
Message-ID	<110lqcb$1puvg$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to	#87951

mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) wrote:
>I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".  It's a
>"you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're compiling
>everything as well.

I don't see any advantages of that, other that you have untested
binaries and a big chance of having a broken toolchain, and that
you're unlikely to have the deep understanding of what you're doing
that the distribution people have.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#87966

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-06-14 18:40 +0000
Message-ID	<n98atjFkc5pU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#87951

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 07:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Mechanicjay wrote:

> I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".
> It's a "you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're
> compiling everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has
> all the same packages available as any other distro.

The thrill of building everything from tarballs wore off about 25 years 
ago for me.

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#87976

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
Message-ID	<xFSdna56L8rEELL3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#87966

On 6/14/26 14:40, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 07:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Mechanicjay wrote:
> 
>> I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".
>> It's a "you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're
>> compiling everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has
>> all the same packages available as any other distro.
> 
> The thrill of building everything from tarballs wore off about 25 years
> ago for me.

   Fully agree.

   However GenToo seems designed for those who DO still
   want to ultra-customize, so it's good it's still out
   there.

   After reading-up a bit I decided NOT to do GenToo - am
   too old now for so much fiddly, maybe volatile, stuff.
   Leave that for the teens/20s crowd.

   TRYING to download a Solaris deriv called "Tribblix", fair
   reviews. The download link is VERY slow alas and has broken
   twice now. There is "Tribblix" and "OmniTribblix" ... the
   second one Sounded Better. Now trying the 'regular' one.

   Also fails about 20% thru. Will see if there are alts.

   No, don't hate Solaris. Not always everyone's proverbial
   cup-o-tea but it's a solid lineage. Used it on a limited
   basis a few years back. Kinda COMPLICATED partition
   spectrum alas, seems overkill unless maybe you're
   setting up a petabyte server.

   Anyway, if 'Tribblix' won't download I also got the
   latest OpenIndiana and will see how/if that's improved
   over the past few years.

   DID try "Plan9" once. I sort of "get it", but it's
   really not for *A* box ... more a 'cluster' system.
   Seems they DID port it to the latest IBM mini-
   mainframes a few years ago - so it's still out there
   doing its special thing :-)

   STILL hoping for a modern-tweaked VMS. That was
   WAY ahead of its time ... and would not be all
   so out-of-date even now. Could natively do
   international cluster/cloud over acoustic
   modems.

   Also have this 4" thick small-print manual ...

   Alas ... will "AI" obsolete all human programmers
   and systems ??? Stay tuned - but expect the worst.
   Human made/coded ... likely to become a 'fetish'
   like valve HAM sets. THEN they will decree it as
   a "security risk" because there aren't 10,000
   spyware bits included.

   IMHO, never let good systems die.

   SMALL end - still have a CP/M-86 VM. Another
   Good System. DID come across a couple of
   modern Z-80 (compatible) "kit" boards. MIGHT
   spend the money. CP/M and old DOS were
   "just good enough" for a bunch of things.
   Real Z-80 chips can still be had too if
   you're that ambitious.

   Do have a ZX-81 under The Heap somewhere
   but that really wasn't wired for much
   expansion. You CAN buy refurbished S-100
   boxes now, but $$$ for the most part and
   good luck with the peripherials.

   FPGAs can be programmed to emulate almost
   any old chip, as or more fast than the
   originals. Even saw a TI-990(0) one last
   year sometime - FUNKY, but good.

   Ah, JUST got 'Tribblix' regular - after 1pm.
   Will try it tomorrow. Note the site has NO
   "contact" link - can't even complain about
   the deathly slow/fragile downlink. THINK
   it's mostly just ONE guy, Peter Tribble,
   not a collaborative team. Not so great,
   maybe not so likely to survive. Still have
   the latest OpenIndiana though ...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#87902

From	mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay)
Date	2026-06-12 13:26 +0000
Message-ID	<slrn10tbvdu.6d2.mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net>
In reply to	#87875

On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>OK ... OpenSUSE has become just kinda TERRIBLE ... it's

I was a long time OpenSuse user and gave up on it about 9 years ago.

For a long time it was the best distro that Just Worked (tm).  I started getting
annoyed at various decisions.  The deprication of Yast, SuseFirewall, loading my
system up with all sorts of btrfs services along with severe bloat for no
discernable reason.

I'm still daily driving my X61 Tablet, and it just became painful to run Suse on
it due to bloat.

Anyway, I'm 100% on Gentoo now everywhere.  Is it "better"?  I don't know.  It
does piss me off less, which is really my goal when it comes to my computers.

YMMV

--
Sent from my Personal DECstation 5000/25

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#88034

From	Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com>
Date	2026-06-17 15:43 +0800
Message-ID	<110tj6t$1mmq9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#87875

Yes, hardly an alternative to Centos.
Tumbleweed is okay, so why is Leap an ebola turd?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88048

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-06-18 04:28 -0400
Message-ID	<2fKcnewjWrb3Ma73nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#88034

On 6/17/26 03:43, Woozy Song wrote:
> Yes, hardly an alternative to Centos.
> Tumbleweed is okay, so why is Leap an ebola turd?

   Leap DOES seem to be an "Ebola Turd" in my
   latest eval.

   DO remember when OSuse was much much better.

   Very unhappy now.

   Servers and such - try ANTIX as the minimal
   base. Add whatever you need to it.

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#88630

From	bonkmaykr <bonkymaykr@canithesis.org>
Date	2026-07-04 00:40 -0500
Message-ID	<112a6en$3ts22$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#87875

c186282 wrote:
> WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED ???
Someone decided politics and publicity were more important than 
developing the software, and the only people left to work on SUSE are 
now performative RedHat elitists.

-- 
*bonkmaykr*
Director, Programming Lead
<https://canithesis.org/>

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#88631

From	Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date	2026-07-04 05:46 +0000
Message-ID	<112a6o4$3tts5$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#88630

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:40:37 -0500, bonkmaykr wrote:

> Someone decided politics and publicity were more important than
> developing the software, and the only people left to work on SUSE
> are now performative RedHat elitists.

So what happened to the people developing the software?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88634

From	Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us>
Date	2026-07-04 10:59 +0200
Message-ID	<112ai1g$n476$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to	#88631

Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:40:37 -0500, bonkmaykr wrote:
>
>> Someone decided politics and publicity were more important than
>> developing the software, and the only people left to work on SUSE
>> are now performative RedHat elitists.
>
>So what happened to the people developing the software?

If you want a Distribution without commercial background, use Debian.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88655

From	Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date	2026-07-04 23:43 +0000
Message-ID	<112c5rf$k25o$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#88634

On Sat, 04 Jul 2026 10:59:27 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:40:37 -0500, bonkmaykr wrote:
>>
>>> Someone decided politics and publicity were more important than
>>> developing the software, and the only people left to work on SUSE
>>> are now performative RedHat elitists.
>>
>> So what happened to the people developing the software?
>
> If you want a Distribution without commercial background, use
> Debian.

The point being, that person complaining abut SUSE is another of these
armchair critics who loves how to complain about Free Software
projects not catering to their particular needs.

To paraphrase JFK: “Ask not what Free Software can do for you, ask
what you can do for Free Software”.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88662

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-07-05 01:59 -0400
Message-ID	<53udneXCnuc4b9T3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#88655

On 7/4/26 19:43, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jul 2026 10:59:27 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:40:37 -0500, bonkmaykr wrote:
>>>
>>>> Someone decided politics and publicity were more important than
>>>> developing the software, and the only people left to work on SUSE
>>>> are now performative RedHat elitists.
>>>
>>> So what happened to the people developing the software?
>>
>> If you want a Distribution without commercial background, use
>> Debian.
> 
> The point being, that person complaining abut SUSE is another of these
> armchair critics who loves how to complain about Free Software
> projects not catering to their particular needs.

   No, I don't love it AT ALL.

   I just remember when it used to be Much Better and
   now wonder What The Fuck Has Happened. I thought
   'tools' and 'AI' were supposed to make code better,
   right ?

   Sorry, but I've become too old now to spend days
   or weeks pumped on caf digging through endless
   undocumented config files and trying to read
   somebody's crappy 'C' to fix some little problems
   that fuck up everything. Soon Linux will NOT be
   a viable M$/Apple alt system anymore. The days
   of being an 'experimental' system should be over.

   Maybe somebody is helping along the shittification
   of Linux ... ???

> To paraphrase JFK: “Ask not what Free Software can do for you, ask
> what you can do for Free Software”.

   I've done my bit. Now I want some *return* on
   my investment instead of just a bigger and
   bigger shit heap.

   Bound to be a 2010 ISO of OpenSUSE around ... maybe
   that's the best tact eh ?  :-)

   Still some hope in the BSDs ... not as pretty, but
   they do what they do quite well.

   As for the 'C' these days, LOOK at it ... still
   see unbounded unchecked I/O fields like from
   the 1980s. I mean WHY would anyone put more than
   ten bytes into a ten byte field ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88675

From	"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date	2026-07-05 13:32 +0200
Message-ID	<nautm0Fdqp4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#88662

On 2026-07-05 07:59, c186282 wrote:
> On 7/4/26 19:43, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Jul 2026 10:59:27 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 00:40:37 -0500, bonkmaykr wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Someone decided politics and publicity were more important than
>>>>> developing the software, and the only people left to work on SUSE
>>>>> are now performative RedHat elitists.
>>>>
>>>> So what happened to the people developing the software?
>>>
>>> If you want a Distribution without commercial background, use
>>> Debian.
>>
>> The point being, that person complaining abut SUSE is another of these
>> armchair critics who loves how to complain about Free Software
>> projects not catering to their particular needs.
> 
>    No, I don't love it AT ALL.
> 
>    I just remember when it used to be Much Better and
>    now wonder What The Fuck Has Happened. I thought
>    'tools' and 'AI' were supposed to make code better,
>    right ?
> 
>    Sorry, but I've become too old now to spend days
>    or weeks pumped on caf digging through endless
>    undocumented config files and trying to read
>    somebody's crappy 'C' to fix some little problems
>    that fuck up everything. Soon Linux will NOT be
>    a viable M$/Apple alt system anymore. The days
>    of being an 'experimental' system should be over.
> 
>    Maybe somebody is helping along the shittification
>    of Linux ... ???

I am using right now openSUSE Leap 16.0 without a problem.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88691

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-05 19:07 +0000
Message-ID	<navobuFhh1qU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#88675

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:32:15 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I am using right now openSUSE Leap 16.0 without a problem.

I replaced EndeavourOS on the Lenovo T480 with Leap 16. So far it has been 
trouble free without the Endeavour quirks.  I'm using KDE both on SUSE and 
Fedora. SUSE has older versions of the kernel, Plasma, konsole and so 
forth but nothing that affects me.

The only snag was VirtualBox. Once again, that was an experiment after 
reading C123456's posts and I personally have no interest in running VB. 
virt-manager works fine. 

Python on SUSE is 3.13 versus 3.14 on Fedora and Ubuntu 26.04 but that's 
not a problem either. I haven't tried lately but there were some libraries 
that didn't support 3.14 so that initially was a bug rather than a 
feature.

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#88705

From	c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date	2026-07-06 01:34 -0400
Message-ID	<ZdacnTJOk_Evo9b3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#88691

On 7/5/26 15:07, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:32:15 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> I am using right now openSUSE Leap 16.0 without a problem.
> 
> I replaced EndeavourOS on the Lenovo T480 with Leap 16. So far it has been
> trouble free without the Endeavour quirks.  I'm using KDE both on SUSE and
> Fedora. SUSE has older versions of the kernel, Plasma, konsole and so
> forth but nothing that affects me.
> 
> The only snag was VirtualBox. Once again, that was an experiment after
> reading C123456's posts and I personally have no interest in running VB.
> virt-manager works fine.
> 
> Python on SUSE is 3.13 versus 3.14 on Fedora and Ubuntu 26.04 but that's
> not a problem either. I haven't tried lately but there were some libraries
> that didn't support 3.14 so that initially was a bug rather than a
> feature.

   About five years ago, OSuse decided it didn't need/support
   lots of those olde-tyme utilities. Had lots of pgms that
   ran those in the background to gather/parse the output for
   vital systems info. In short, they SCREWED me for no good
   reasons at all.

   What's next, remove 'ls' and 'ps' and 'df' because, well,
   who needs to know that kind of shit anyway ? Have to hand
   install to get 'ifconfig' now too.

   Bye Bye. Moved my servers and devices and such over
   to plain Deb within a week. Can TELL when I'm being
   butt-fucked by "know betters".

   Now, recently, checking back - more and more weird little
   issues with OSuse.

   I've posted on this stuff, said what SHOULD work well
   but wouldn't. On what was lost.

   So long as you stick to what Granny might do then maybe
   you're ok - the "Puppy" level.

   Sorry, it's OFF my list permanently now. So sad ! I can
   remember when it was 'best', most capable, most options.

   Stick with Deb now, pref MX. That "Just Works".

   Oh, and Synaptic thrashes the shit out of anybody
   else's package research/install GUI. WISH they'd
   port it to Arch/BSD.

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#88706

From	rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date	2026-07-06 07:29 +0000
Message-ID	<nb13qlFmfb1U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#88705

On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 01:34:52 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    So long as you stick to what Granny might do then maybe you're ok -
>    the "Puppy" level.

No puppies here.

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#88711

From	"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date	2026-07-06 13:24 +0200
Message-ID	<nb1hjfFpadpU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#88705

On 2026-07-06 07:34, c186282 wrote:
> On 7/5/26 15:07, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:32:15 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> I am using right now openSUSE Leap 16.0 without a problem.
>>
>> I replaced EndeavourOS on the Lenovo T480 with Leap 16. So far it has 
>> been
>> trouble free without the Endeavour quirks.  I'm using KDE both on SUSE 
>> and
>> Fedora. SUSE has older versions of the kernel, Plasma, konsole and so
>> forth but nothing that affects me.
>>
>> The only snag was VirtualBox. Once again, that was an experiment after
>> reading C123456's posts and I personally have no interest in running VB.
>> virt-manager works fine.
>>
>> Python on SUSE is 3.13 versus 3.14 on Fedora and Ubuntu 26.04 but that's
>> not a problem either. I haven't tried lately but there were some 
>> libraries
>> that didn't support 3.14 so that initially was a bug rather than a
>> feature.
> 
>    About five years ago, OSuse decided it didn't need/support
>    lots of those olde-tyme utilities. Had lots of pgms that
>    ran those in the background to gather/parse the output for
>    vital systems info. In short, they SCREWED me for no good
>    reasons at all.
> 
>    What's next, remove 'ls' and 'ps' and 'df' because, well,
>    who needs to know that kind of shit anyway ? Have to hand
>    install to get 'ifconfig' now too.

You can install ifconfig trivially.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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csiph-web

Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT !

Contents

#87977

#87988

#87951

#87954

#87955

#87966

#87976

#87902

#88034

#88048

#88630

#88631

#88634

#88655

#88662

#88675

#88691

#88705

#88706

#88711