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WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be

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  WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-04 18:23 +0000
    Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-04 18:41 +0000
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:36 +0100
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 01:31 -0400
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-05 18:07 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:15 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-05 19:11 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 00:54 +0100
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-05 19:08 +0000
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:02 +0000
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 02:00 -0400
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-05 19:17 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-06 00:30 +0000
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 12:42 +0100
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 13:35 +0200
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-05 12:41 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 15:12 +0200
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-05 13:55 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 15:11 +0100
                  Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:49 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 23:42 +0000
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:47 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:39 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-06 00:44 +0100
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 21:47 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-06 13:10 +0200

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#88646 — WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

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#88647 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> 
> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> 
> It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.


-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services

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#88654 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:

> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>> 
>> It must leave a sour taste.
>
> It is also *probably* too little too late.

Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

-- 
Nuno Silva
May contain traces of: sarcasm.

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#88661 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>
>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>
>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> 
> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

   Pikachu !  :-)

   Maybe a "Minion" !!!

   Those ought to be about the mental level of
   today's 'users'.

   As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they
   want big money for doing basically nothing. That's
   the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm. They "just deserve" the high
   life because, well, Just Because .........

   A long time back, a niece, maybe 3rd cousin, about
   12 years old asked why anybody should DO anything,
   just hand out Free Money. "Well, if nobody is doing
   anything, what do you buy ?" Answer - "just buy it
   from some other place !". "If nobody here is doing
   anything, making anything, why would our money be
   worth anything to them ? It'd just be paper with
   numbers on it." She didn't have an answer for that.

   She wasn't STUPID - indeed probably IQ-130 - but
   she and her crowd had never even been informed how
   money/economies WORK, how the value of money is
   tied to DOING/MAKING stuff. This seems criminally
   negligent - 'socialists/communists' behind it.

   This was latter Gen-Y ... it's MUCH worse now.

   As for little Cuz ... she's spent a lot of her
   life in jail, or dodging jail, for a lot of
   little offenses. Not a happy ending.

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#88685 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
>
>> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
>> 
>>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>
>>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>>
>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>> 
>> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
>> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.
>
>    Pikachu !  :-)
>
>    Maybe a "Minion" !!!
>
>    Those ought to be about the mental level of
>    today's 'users'.

Bring back Clippy!

>    As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they
>    want big money for doing basically nothing. That's
>    the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm. They "just deserve" the high
>    life because, well, Just Because .........

That's why they went to the SaaS model.  Write it once,
collect money forever.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

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#88686 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On Sun, 05 Jul 2026 18:07:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-
because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>>
>>>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>>>
>>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>>> 
>>> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
>>> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.
>>
>>    Pikachu !
>>
>>    Maybe a "Minion" !!!
>>
>>    Those ought to be about the mental level of today's 'users'.
> 
> Bring back Clippy!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

Rover rulz!

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#88693 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>    As for "Microsoft Developers" ...  I just think they want big 
>>    money for doing basically nothing.  That's the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm.  
>>    They "just deserve" the high life because, well, Just Because 
>>    .........
> 
> That's why they went to the SaaS model.  Write it once, collect money 
> forever.

Any sane "businessman" would very much prefer an "eternal periodic rent 
income stream" to a "single sale, and that's it" income stream.

So it is not at all surprising that as MS began to reach saturation on 
"licences to use" software that they then started to try to shift 
everyone to a "pay us rent monthly for a licence to use for the month" 
model.

The unfortunate sad part is too many customers fell for the "rental 
model" and therefore made it seem viable to the MBA's.

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#88699 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-05, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>>
>>>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>>>
>>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>>> 
>>> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
>>> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.
>>
>>    Pikachu !  :-)
>>
>>    Maybe a "Minion" !!!
>>
>>    Those ought to be about the mental level of
>>    today's 'users'.
>
> Bring back Clippy!

I'm quite surprised they didn't just plug GenAI into MS Agent... can't
be that difficult, can it? And it does sound like something that'd come
out of Microsoft.


-- 
Nuno Silva

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#88692 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>   A long time back, a niece, maybe 3rd cousin, about 12 years old 
>   asked why anybody should DO anything, just hand out Free Money.  
>   "Well, if nobody is doing anything, what do you buy ?" Answer - 
>   "just buy it from some other place !".  "If nobody here is doing 
>   anything, making anything, why would our money be worth anything to 
>   them ?  It'd just be paper with numbers on it." She didn't have an 
>   answer for that.
> 
>   She wasn't STUPID - indeed probably IQ-130 - but she and her crowd 
>   had never even been informed how money/economies WORK, how the 
>   value of money is tied to DOING/MAKING stuff.  This seems 
>   criminally negligent - 'socialists/communists' behind it.

Maybe, but not necessarially.  Another possibility is simply growing up 
just a little too far up the "well-to-do" ladder.  Little ones that 
have always had every desire "fufilled" by mommy&daddy the moment the 
desire pops in their heads, and without concern for the monetary cost 
involved, very often grow into teenagers/young adults who have zero 
concept for the value of money nor for how current world economies 
function.  And not because their parents set out to teach them 
socialism/communism, but because their parents didn't want them to have 
to "want for anything".  The parents just didn't realize it was the 
"want, but can't have yet because you/we can't afford it" aspect of 
growing up that teaches them that money does not grow on trees and we 
can't just "give everyone money" and continue the same as we do 
currently.

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#88656

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>> 
> It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

    ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
    Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
    people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
    user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
    everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
    allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
    then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

But yes, a hybrid environment does at least offer some sense of
familiarity to those who have spent too long in the Windows world --
easier than jumping straight into the deep end of a pure-Linux
environment.

In other words, all Microsoft can do, really, is help ease the
transition away from Windows to Linux. Instead of slowing the move by
making the Windows environment more attractive to stay with for just a
little bit longer, it could, paradoxically, help to speed it up.

The final section heading spells it out: “WSL is Microsoft admitting
that developers want to be elsewhere”. No two ways about it.

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#88663

On 7/4/26 20:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>
>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> 
> Quote:
> 
>      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>      then that's what it needs to do.
> 
> But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
> competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> manage.

   That's the LOGICAL view.

   'Consumers' don't see it that way. They've
   always used Winders and can't think outside
   that box.

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#88694

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 7/4/26 20:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
>> 
>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>
>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>> 
>> Quote:
>> 
>>      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>>      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>>      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>>      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>>      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>>      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>>      then that's what it needs to do.
>> 
>> But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
>> competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
>> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
>> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
>> manage.
> 
>   That's the LOGICAL view.
> 
>   'Consumers' don't see it that way. They've
>   always used Winders and can't think outside
>   that box.

Those same "consumers" you reference are also not "using WSL to develop 
linux software".  Those "consumers" won't ever do anything beyond "use 
the OS that came on the computer from the store".

If anything, this points to at least two possibilities:

1) the technical knowledge of "software developers" has fallen to such 
a low level that they are incapable of installing Linux for themselves 
and just go with windows (which came installed when they bought the 
computer) and jump into WSL for their dev work.

2) a great many "software developers" are using "corporate machines" 
and the "corporate overlords" are still firmly stuck in the "we must 
have windows, and active directory, and msteams, and msoutlook, and 
msword, and msexcel, and ms-the-rest" world and the developers are 
dropping into WSL as that's their only option for a sane software 
development environment on their corporate machine that is otherwise 
locked down by the overseers.

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#88700

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 19:17:46 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> 2) a great many "software developers" are using "corporate machines" and
> the "corporate overlords" are still firmly stuck in the "we must have
> windows, and active directory, and msteams, and msoutlook, and msword,
> and msexcel, and ms-the-rest" world and the developers are dropping into
> WSL as that's their only option for a sane software development
> environment on their corporate machine that is otherwise locked down by
> the overseers.

The company I worked for was Windows centric, particularly when the the IT 
guy was a Microsoft alumnus. The newest machines were dropped off with 
fresh a Windows installation. Developers did not get Office or Outlook. We 
used Slack although Teams was preferred.

The machines that had been replaced with the current Dell offerings were 
wiped and given to the developers. We installed whichever Linux distro we 
preferred and provisioned the machines. IT accepted they were on the 
network but didn't want to know much more than that.

The guidelines were simple; if it didn't cost money you could install it. 
That applied to the Windows boxes also. 

WSL could be handy although I preferred to develop on the Linus box unless 
it was something specifically for Windows. 

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#88714

On 06/07/2026 01:30, rbowman wrote:
> The newest machines were dropped off with
> fresh a Windows installation. Developers did not get Office or Outlook. We
> used Slack although Teams was preferred.
> 
> The machines that had been replaced with the current Dell offerings were
> wiped and given to the developers. We installed whichever Linux distro we
> preferred and provisioned the machines. IT accepted they were on the
> network but didn't want to know much more than that.

My company had a similar policy.

People who did admin did it on windows. Developers who knew what they 
were doing could install whatever they wanted.


-- 
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to 
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

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#88677

On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>
>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> 
> Quote:
> 
>      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>      then that's what it needs to do.
> 
> But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
> competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> manage.

Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for 
Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88679 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> > 
> >>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> >>>
> >> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> > 
> > Quote:
> > 
> >      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
> >      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
> >      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
> >      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
> >      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
> >      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
> >      then that's what it needs to do.
> > 
> > But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
> > competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
> > definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> > Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> > manage.
> 
> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for 
> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.

Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move 
from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S 
infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...

The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
targeting MS-Windows.

> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services

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#88681 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>>
>>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>>>
>>> Quote:
>>>
>>>       ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>>>       Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>>>       people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>>>       user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>>>       everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>>>       allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>>>       then that's what it needs to do.
>>>
>>> But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
>>> competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
>>> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
>>> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
>>> manage.
>>
>> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
>> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
> 
> Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move
> from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S
> infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...
> 
> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
> entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
> going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
> MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
> and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
> just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
> programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
> targeting MS-Windows.

Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just 
click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those 
same applications could also run on Linux proper.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88682 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:
> > At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >> On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> >>>>>
> >>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> >>>
> >>> Quote:
> >>>
> >>>       ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
> >>>       Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
> >>>       people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
> >>>       user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
> >>>       everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
> >>>       allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
> >>>       then that's what it needs to do.
> >>>
> >>> But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
> >>> competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
> >>> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> >>> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> >>> manage.
> >>
> >> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
> >> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
> > 
> > Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move
> > from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S
> > infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...
> > 
> > The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
> > entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
> > going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
> > MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
> > and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
> > just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
> > programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
> > targeting MS-Windows.
> 
> Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just 
> click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those 
> same applications could also run on Linux proper.

It depends on the program load infrastructure.  Eg is WSL on MS-Windows like 
WINE on Linux?  (Does WSL provide a system call wrapper library?)  Does the 
build tools under WSL produce Linux ELF binaries or native MS-Windows binaries 
(which is what the mingwin toolchain running under linux produces).  It would 
of course be true that the WSL application *source code* would also build on a 
Linux machine and then run under Linux,

Note: almost any non-GUI Linux utility will compile and run under MacOS,
depending on the level of its dependency on specific O/S features and
libraries. Actually any classic C program that just uses the base STDIO
library will compile on Linux, MacOSX, and even MS-Windows (without any need
for WSL). The produced *binaries* are of cource not "portable".



> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services

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#88683 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> writes:
> At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:
>> On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX
>>> -- move from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel
>>> (and base O/S infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on
>>> top...

Personally I doubt it. I don’t think they perceive any likely benefit
from open-sourcing the Windows kernel, and inserting some other kernel
under the Windows ABI seems like a great deal of work for dubious
benefit.

>>> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft
>>> trying to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from
>>> Linux? The WSL is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows
>>> user (or if the "typical" MS-Windows user starts using the WSL,
>>> they might decide to just install Linux and move on. Developers
>>> already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows just to use
>>> WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
>>> programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build
>>> on Linux targeting MS-Windows.
>> 
>> Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently?

Yes. Linux applications run transparently on the Windows desktop.

>> Just click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away?

You can make that work, yes.

>> Those same applications could also run on Linux proper.

WSL _is_ “Linux proper”, running in a VM.

> It depends on the program load infrastructure.  Eg is WSL on
> MS-Windows like WINE on Linux?  (Does WSL provide a system call
> wrapper library?)

No, it’s not like WINE.

(The first version was somewhat ‘like WINE’, albeit emulating the target
platform at a different layer. But that has been abandoned now; today
WSL is Linux in a VM, with very good host integration.)

> Does the build tools under WSL produce Linux ELF binaries or native
> MS-Windows binaries (which is what the mingwin toolchain running under
> linux produces).  It would of course be true that the WSL application
> *source code* would also build on a Linux machine and then run under
> Linux,

It’s just Linux, executables are built using exactly the same versions
of exactly the same tools you use on Ubuntu, Debian, etc.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#88690 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

On Sun, 05 Jul 2026 15:11:00 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> (The first version was somewhat ‘like WINE’, albeit emulating the target
> platform at a different layer. But that has been abandoned now; today
> WSL is Linux in a VM, with very good host integration.)

If you install Docker Desktop on Windows it goes looking for a WSL 
instance. I think you can make it use Hyper-V but that isn't the first 
choice.

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