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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #88646 > unrolled thread

WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be

Started byrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
First post2026-07-04 18:23 +0000
Last post2026-07-05 18:39 +0000
Articles 16 — 8 participants

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Contents

  WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-04 18:23 +0000
    Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-04 18:41 +0000
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:36 +0100
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 01:31 -0400
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-05 18:07 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:15 +0000
      Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:02 +0000
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-05 02:00 -0400
        Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 13:35 +0200
          Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-05 12:41 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-05 15:12 +0200
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-05 13:55 +0000
                Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 15:11 +0100
                  Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:49 +0000
              Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:47 +0000
            Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-05 18:39 +0000

#88646 — WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-04 18:23 +0000
SubjectWSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<nat1csF3l9vU2@mid.individual.net>
<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

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#88647 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2026-07-04 18:41 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<112bk53$chl8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88646
At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> 
> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> 
> It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.


-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services

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#88654 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-05 00:36 +0100
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<112c5dc$jjdb$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88647
On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:

> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>> 
>> It must leave a sour taste.
>
> It is also *probably* too little too late.

Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

-- 
Nuno Silva
May contain traces of: sarcasm.

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#88661 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-05 01:31 -0400
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<r5ucndEIMqbccdT3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88654
On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>
>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>
>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> 
> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

   Pikachu !  :-)

   Maybe a "Minion" !!!

   Those ought to be about the mental level of
   today's 'users'.

   As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they
   want big money for doing basically nothing. That's
   the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm. They "just deserve" the high
   life because, well, Just Because .........

   A long time back, a niece, maybe 3rd cousin, about
   12 years old asked why anybody should DO anything,
   just hand out Free Money. "Well, if nobody is doing
   anything, what do you buy ?" Answer - "just buy it
   from some other place !". "If nobody here is doing
   anything, making anything, why would our money be
   worth anything to them ? It'd just be paper with
   numbers on it." She didn't have an answer for that.

   She wasn't STUPID - indeed probably IQ-130 - but
   she and her crowd had never even been informed how
   money/economies WORK, how the value of money is
   tied to DOING/MAKING stuff. This seems criminally
   negligent - 'socialists/communists' behind it.

   This was latter Gen-Y ... it's MUCH worse now.

   As for little Cuz ... she's spent a lot of her
   life in jail, or dodging jail, for a lot of
   little offenses. Not a happy ending.

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#88685 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-07-05 18:07 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<N3x2S.16753$F8N4.3207@fx01.iad>
In reply to#88661
On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
>
>> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
>> 
>>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>
>>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>>
>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>> 
>> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
>> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.
>
>    Pikachu !  :-)
>
>    Maybe a "Minion" !!!
>
>    Those ought to be about the mental level of
>    today's 'users'.

Bring back Clippy!

>    As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they
>    want big money for doing basically nothing. That's
>    the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm. They "just deserve" the high
>    life because, well, Just Because .........

That's why they went to the SaaS model.  Write it once,
collect money forever.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

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#88686 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-05 18:15 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<navla3Fhh1qU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88685
On Sun, 05 Jul 2026 18:07:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-
because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>>
>>>>> It must leave a sour taste.
>>>>
>>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>>> 
>>> Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
>>> an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.
>>
>>    Pikachu !
>>
>>    Maybe a "Minion" !!!
>>
>>    Those ought to be about the mental level of today's 'users'.
> 
> Bring back Clippy!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

Rover rulz!

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#88656

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-07-05 00:02 +0000
Message-ID<112c6uq$k25o$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88647
On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>> 
> It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

    ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
    Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
    people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
    user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
    everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
    allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
    then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

But yes, a hybrid environment does at least offer some sense of
familiarity to those who have spent too long in the Windows world --
easier than jumping straight into the deep end of a pure-Linux
environment.

In other words, all Microsoft can do, really, is help ease the
transition away from Windows to Linux. Instead of slowing the move by
making the Windows environment more attractive to stay with for just a
little bit longer, it could, paradoxically, help to speed it up.

The final section heading spells it out: “WSL is Microsoft admitting
that developers want to be elsewhere”. No two ways about it.

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#88663

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-05 02:00 -0400
Message-ID<53udneTCnuefbtT3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88656
On 7/4/26 20:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>
>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> 
> Quote:
> 
>      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>      then that's what it needs to do.
> 
> But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
> competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> manage.

   That's the LOGICAL view.

   'Consumers' don't see it that way. They've
   always used Winders and can't think outside
   that box.

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#88677

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-07-05 13:35 +0200
Message-ID<nautstFdqp7U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88656
On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>
>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> 
> Quote:
> 
>      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>      then that's what it needs to do.
> 
> But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than
> competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> manage.

Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for 
Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88679 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2026-07-05 12:41 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<112djde$12pfm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88677
At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> > 
> >>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> >>>
> >> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> > 
> > Quote:
> > 
> >      ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
> >      Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
> >      people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
> >      user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
> >      everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
> >      allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
> >      then that's what it needs to do.
> > 
> > But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
> > competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
> > definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> > Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> > manage.
> 
> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for 
> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.

Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move 
from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S 
infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...

The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
targeting MS-Windows.

> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services

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#88681 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-07-05 15:12 +0200
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<nav3icFdqp7U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88679
On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
>>>>>
>>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
>>>
>>> Quote:
>>>
>>>       ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
>>>       Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
>>>       people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
>>>       user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
>>>       everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
>>>       allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
>>>       then that's what it needs to do.
>>>
>>> But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
>>> competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
>>> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
>>> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
>>> manage.
>>
>> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
>> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
> 
> Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move
> from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S
> infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...
> 
> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
> entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
> going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
> MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
> and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
> just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
> programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
> targeting MS-Windows.

Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just 
click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those 
same applications could also run on Linux proper.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88682 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2026-07-05 13:55 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<112dnpb$1494h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88681
At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:
> > At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >> On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> <https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>
> >>>>>
> >>>> It is also *probably* too little too late.
> >>>
> >>> Quote:
> >>>
> >>>       ... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
> >>>       Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
> >>>       people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
> >>>       user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
> >>>       everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
> >>>       allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
> >>>       then that's what it needs to do.
> >>>
> >>> But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
> >>> competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
> >>> definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
> >>> Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
> >>> manage.
> >>
> >> Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
> >> Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
> > 
> > Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move
> > from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S
> > infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...
> > 
> > The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to
> > entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not
> > going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical"
> > MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
> > and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
> > just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
> > programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
> > targeting MS-Windows.
> 
> Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just 
> click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those 
> same applications could also run on Linux proper.

It depends on the program load infrastructure.  Eg is WSL on MS-Windows like 
WINE on Linux?  (Does WSL provide a system call wrapper library?)  Does the 
build tools under WSL produce Linux ELF binaries or native MS-Windows binaries 
(which is what the mingwin toolchain running under linux produces).  It would 
of course be true that the WSL application *source code* would also build on a 
Linux machine and then run under Linux,

Note: almost any non-GUI Linux utility will compile and run under MacOS,
depending on the level of its dependency on specific O/S features and
libraries. Actually any classic C program that just uses the base STDIO
library will compile on Linux, MacOSX, and even MS-Windows (without any need
for WSL). The produced *binaries* are of cource not "portable".



> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services

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#88683 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-05 15:11 +0100
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<wwvik6tle6j.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#88682
Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> writes:
> At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:
>> On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX
>>> -- move from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel
>>> (and base O/S infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on
>>> top...

Personally I doubt it. I don’t think they perceive any likely benefit
from open-sourcing the Windows kernel, and inserting some other kernel
under the Windows ABI seems like a great deal of work for dubious
benefit.

>>> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft
>>> trying to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from
>>> Linux? The WSL is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows
>>> user (or if the "typical" MS-Windows user starts using the WSL,
>>> they might decide to just install Linux and move on. Developers
>>> already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows just to use
>>> WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
>>> programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build
>>> on Linux targeting MS-Windows.
>> 
>> Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently?

Yes. Linux applications run transparently on the Windows desktop.

>> Just click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away?

You can make that work, yes.

>> Those same applications could also run on Linux proper.

WSL _is_ “Linux proper”, running in a VM.

> It depends on the program load infrastructure.  Eg is WSL on
> MS-Windows like WINE on Linux?  (Does WSL provide a system call
> wrapper library?)

No, it’s not like WINE.

(The first version was somewhat ‘like WINE’, albeit emulating the target
platform at a different layer. But that has been abandoned now; today
WSL is Linux in a VM, with very good host integration.)

> Does the build tools under WSL produce Linux ELF binaries or native
> MS-Windows binaries (which is what the mingwin toolchain running under
> linux produces).  It would of course be true that the WSL application
> *source code* would also build on a Linux machine and then run under
> Linux,

It’s just Linux, executables are built using exactly the same versions
of exactly the same tools you use on Ubuntu, Debian, etc.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#88690 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-05 18:49 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally?? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<navn9fFhh1qU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88683
On Sun, 05 Jul 2026 15:11:00 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> (The first version was somewhat ‘like WINE’, albeit emulating the target
> platform at a different layer. But that has been abandoned now; today
> WSL is Linux in a VM, with very good host integration.)

If you install Docker Desktop on Windows it goes looking for a WSL 
instance. I think you can make it use Hyper-V but that isn't the first 
choice.

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#88689 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-05 18:47 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<navn59Fhh1qU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88681
On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just
> click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those
> same applications could also run on Linux proper.

I haven't used WSL in a year of so but I believe they've made the process 
easier.

https://granule.medium.com/wsl2-gui-app-shortcuts-in-windows-with-wslg-
fcc66d3134e7

WSL is a fast moving target. In the earlier iterations if you wanted a GUI 
you have to install a third party X server and get it running. Unlike many 
Microsoft enthusiasms the WSL project seems to have staying power.

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#88688 — Re: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-05 18:39 +0000
SubjectRe: WSL keeps getting better, and it's because Microsoft is finally? admitting where developers want to be
Message-ID<navmmhFhh1qU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88679
On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 12:41:18 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

> The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying
> to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL
> is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the
> "typical"
> MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install
> Linux and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install
> MS-Windows just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows
> versions of Linux programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools
> to cross-build on Linux targeting MS-Windows.

A real use case: The wifi service available at shows is expensive and 
often not very reliable. Maps assume you are downloading tiles from a tile 
server, in our case Esri. You sued to be able to see the tiles assembling 
with a slow connection as each tile of the basemap was downloaded and 
rendered.

The marketing people were firmly rooted in Windows so the demo setup was 
installed on their laptops so they could do the dog and pony show, but 
displaying the map was problematic with crappy wifi.

https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-
debian-13/

Building a tile server is a well documented path -- for Linux distors. In 
theory PostGIS, Mapnik, and so forth are available on Windows and you 
could possibly set up the server but there would be a lot of cut'n'try.

I'd recently purchased a Beelink mini for my own use and originally 
thought about using one for the tile server. Given the budget for trade 
shows, $350 was noise. However that would be one more piece of gear to be 
shipped to the show and set up. Marketing always goes through many 
practice sessions so the show will go smoothly. Not. 

I created a WSL instance on a marketing laptop, gathered the data for the 
PA county that matched the demo data, and hooked it up. MS actually has 
improved the IP connections between the Windows and WSL sections but that 
was the hardest part. The result was one laptop completely set up so all 
the marketing people had to do was turn it on and plug in the external 
monitors. If they didn't lose them along the way.

I'm sure there are more cases. On AWS a Linux instance is much cheaper 
than a Windows one so it's cheaper to run everything that can be done on 
Linux. During the development phase it's convenient to simulate the cloud 
locally and that can often be done with WSL.


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