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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #8050 > unrolled thread

Wish to try Linux

Started byPeter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com>
First post2013-05-09 20:09 +0100
Last post2013-06-25 12:52 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 147 — 31 participants

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Contents

  Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-09 20:09 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-09 15:25 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-09 15:24 -0500
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-09 21:51 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-09 18:41 -0400
    Re: Wish to try Linux Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2013-05-09 15:28 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:48 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-09 20:48 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-09 16:45 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-09 23:50 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 07:41 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 13:01 +0100
              Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 08:49 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 15:20 +0200
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 16:11 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-10 08:04 -0400
              Re: Wish to try Linux Bill Marcum <bill@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-05-16 07:58 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux Bill Marcum <bill@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-05-16 07:56 -0400
              Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 09:32 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-16 16:03 +0200
                  Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-05-16 09:27 -0500
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 10:53 -0400
                  Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 15:30 +0100
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 10:52 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 15:30 +0100
                Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 16:14 -0400
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 17:23 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-09 23:49 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-09 19:35 -0500
          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 05:30 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-10 14:27 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-05-09 22:13 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:50 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 17:19 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-15 16:27 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-15 16:34 +0000
              Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 17:46 +0100
                Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-15 18:15 +0000
                  Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 19:32 +0100
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2013-05-15 14:52 -0400
                    Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-15 21:11 +0000
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-15 13:54 -0500
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 01:01 -0400
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-16 10:52 +0200
                      Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 08:25 -0400
                        Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-16 18:56 +0000
                          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 20:33 +0100
                            Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-16 19:35 +0000
                              Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 20:43 +0100
                            Re: Wish to try Linux bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair) - 2013-05-19 23:33 +0000
                          Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 16:16 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 17:44 +0100
              Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-15 13:44 -0500
                Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 20:37 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 13:51 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-14 21:16 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 17:49 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 00:02 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-09 15:03 -0500
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 14:09 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-05-23 14:38 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 16:33 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-05-23 10:55 -0500
              Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 19:00 +0100
                Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-01 11:43 +0200
                  Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-06-01 11:37 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Balwinder S Dheeman <bsd.SANSPAM@anu.homelinux.net> - 2013-06-01 21:59 +0530
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-01 19:14 +0200
                      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-06-01 17:43 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-06-01 19:33 -0400
                      Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-02 02:37 +0200
                        Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-06-01 23:05 -0400
                          Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-06-02 09:33 +0100
                            Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-06-02 07:02 -0400
                              Re: Wish to try Linux David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-06-02 13:26 +0200
                                Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-02 15:47 +0100
                                  Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-06-02 14:52 -0400
                        Re: Wish to try Linux David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-06-02 13:32 +0200
            Re: Wish to try Linux Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2013-05-23 17:09 +0000
              Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 19:06 +0100
              Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2013-05-24 04:48 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-05-09 20:03 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-05-09 20:19 +0000
      Re: Wish to try Linux bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> - 2013-05-09 20:27 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-05-10 15:30 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux Stef <not@this.address.com> - 2013-05-10 03:05 +0000
      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-10 14:35 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Stef <not@this.address.com> - 2013-05-10 16:44 +0000
          Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-10 16:57 +0000
            Re: Wish to try Linux Stef <not@this.address.com> - 2013-05-11 03:59 +0000
              Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-05-11 00:27 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-11 12:49 +0000
                  Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-11 12:56 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-11 15:20 +0200
                      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-11 14:14 +0000
                        Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-11 10:30 -0400
                          Re: Wish to try Linux  OOps Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-11 10:38 -0400
                            Re: Wish to try Linux  OOps Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2013-05-12 04:37 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-05-11 13:47 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:58 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 06:53 +0200
      Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 07:26 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 09:18 +0200
          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 10:20 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 11:40 +0200
        Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 07:44 -0400
          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 13:00 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 08:47 -0400
              Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 15:50 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 18:44 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-21 19:53 +0200
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 18:55 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-21 20:05 +0200
        Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-06-21 19:17 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 19:56 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 19:59 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Antti Talsta <atalsta@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 21:04 +0300
        Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-06-21 17:51 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2013-06-22 01:48 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Stan Bischof <stan@worldbadminton.com> - 2013-06-24 16:48 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Stan Bischof <stan@worldbadminton.com> - 2013-06-24 16:56 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux DenverD <DenverD@invalid.dk> - 2013-05-10 09:17 +0200
    Re: Wish to try Linux lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> - 2013-05-10 13:49 +0000
      Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 15:48 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-10 11:21 -0500
          Re: Wish to try Linux lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> - 2013-05-10 18:20 +0000
            Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-05-10 19:54 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-10 14:55 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-11 05:40 +0200
              Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-11 07:55 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-10 16:07 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> - 2013-05-10 18:29 +0000
          Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-10 19:48 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux David Hough <noone$$@llondel.org> - 2013-05-10 18:13 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Dirk Weber <dma-weber@globe.lu> - 2013-05-10 19:09 +0200
    Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-14 19:01 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-23 22:55 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-24 00:34 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-06-23 19:23 -0500
            Re: Wish to try Linux David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-06-25 18:50 +0200
        Re: Wish to try Linux bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair) - 2013-06-23 22:53 +0000
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-25 12:24 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-06-25 12:28 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair) - 2013-06-25 23:11 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-06-23 19:30 -0500
          Re: Wish to try Linux Ross Maloney <rmatycorp@iinet.net.au> - 2013-06-24 11:07 +0800
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-25 12:52 +0100

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#8153

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-05-15 21:11 +0000
Message-ID<kn0tmi$nmj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8150
On Wednesday, May 15th, 2013, at 14:52:35h -0400, Dan Espen wondered:

> Must be true of only certain distros.

Including Fedora.

    <https://duckduckgo.COM/?q=fedora+eq+overflowing>

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#8151

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2013-05-15 13:54 -0500
Message-ID<fd6dneLNWslzRA7MnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#8147
At Wed, 15 May 2013 18:15:13 +0000 (UTC) J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> wrote:

> 
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:46:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
> > In the end the nice thing about modern linux is that it odes usually 
> > load and install  into a perfectly workable windows like environment, 
> > albeit one that doesn't blue screen or crash 
> 
> I would beg to differ about that "doesn't crash" assertion.
> 
> It used to be with slow stable development with xfree86 that the
> X11 server was rock solid, but nowadays with Xorg rapid "let the
> user do the beta testing", just scrolling the mouse in Firefox can
> cause the whole system to lock up.

Only if you use beta test / bleeding edge versions.  My CentOS 5.9 system is 
quite rock solid:

sauron.deepsoft.com% rpm -qf /usr/lib64/libX11.so*
libX11-devel-1.0.3-11.el5_7.1
libX11-1.0.3-11.el5_7.1
libX11-1.0.3-11.el5_7.1

and from /var/log/Xorg.0.log:

X Window System Version 7.1.1
Release Date: 12 May 2006
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 7.1.1
Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.18-308.24.1.el5 x86_64 Red Hat, Inc.
Current Operating System: Linux sauron.deepsoft.com 2.6.18-348.3.1.el5xen #1 
SMP Mon Mar 11 20:28:48 EDT 2013 x86_64
Build Date: 09 January 2013
Build ID: xorg-x11-server 1.1.1-48.100.el5 
..
(II) LoadModule: "vesa"
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/vesa_drv.so
(II) Module vesa: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
	compiled for 7.1.1, module version = 1.3.0
	Module class: X.Org Video Driver
	ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 1.0

> 
>             EQ overflowing ...
>                                                                                                   

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments

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#8157

FromJean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
Date2013-05-16 01:01 -0400
Message-ID<kn1p6v07vv@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#8147
On 05/15/2013 02:15 PM, J G Miller wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:46:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> In the end the nice thing about modern linux is that it odes usually 
>> load and install  into a perfectly workable windows like environment, 
>> albeit one that doesn't blue screen or crash 
> I would beg to differ about that "doesn't crash" assertion.
>
> It used to be with slow stable development with xfree86 that the
> X11 server was rock solid, but nowadays with Xorg rapid "let the
> user do the beta testing", just scrolling the mouse in Firefox can
> cause the whole system to lock up.
>
>             EQ overflowing ...

When I first started running Linux (Red Hat Linux 5.0, 5.2, 6.various,
the window stuff would lock up sometimes. Luckily, I could usually get
in from my other machine, using ssh, abd kill the X window system and
restart it.

Starting with Red Hat Linux 7.3, I never had a problem.

I never had a problem with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3, CentOS 4, Red Hat
Enterprise Linux 5, CentOS 5, and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.

To be fair, I never had a problem with Windows XP or Windows 7. I had
nothing but trouble with Windows 95. But strating with Windows XP, I
never run anything except income tax programs.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8159

FromAragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid>
Date2013-05-16 10:52 +0200
Message-ID<kn26hh$4ae$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8157
On Thursday 16 May 2013 07:01, Jean-David Beyer conveyed the following 
to comp.os.linux.misc...

> On 05/15/2013 02:15 PM, J G Miller wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:46:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> In the end the nice thing about modern linux is that it odes usually
>>> load and install  into a perfectly workable windows like
>>> environment, albeit one that doesn't blue screen or crash
>> I would beg to differ about that "doesn't crash" assertion.
>>
>> It used to be with slow stable development with xfree86 that the
>> X11 server was rock solid, but nowadays with Xorg rapid "let the
>> user do the beta testing", just scrolling the mouse in Firefox can
>> cause the whole system to lock up.
>>
>>             EQ overflowing ...
> 
> When I first started running Linux (Red Hat Linux 5.0, 5.2, 6.various,
> the window stuff would lock up sometimes. Luckily, I could usually get
> in from my other machine, using ssh, abd kill the X window system and
> restart it.

You guys are aware of the "magic SysRq" keys, aren't you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_sysrq

As long as the kernel is still alive, they will work, provided of course 
that the kernel has been compiled with support for SysRq - which is the 
case in most binary distributions - and that SysRq is enabled in the 
system via /etc/sysctl.conf (via the line "kernel.sysrq=1").

Just mentioning that because a lot of people are inclined to think that 
if X locks up for some reason, the whole system has gone belly up and 
they need to press The Big Scary Button ™ on the computer housing. ;-)

-- 
= Aragorn =
  GNU/Linux user #223157 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#8162

FromJean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
Date2013-05-16 08:25 -0400
Message-ID<kn2j8002j7u@news4.newsguy.com>
In reply to#8159
On 05/16/2013 04:52 AM, Aragorn wrote:
> On Thursday 16 May 2013 07:01, Jean-David Beyer conveyed the following 
> to comp.os.linux.misc...
>
>> On 05/15/2013 02:15 PM, J G Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:46:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the end the nice thing about modern linux is that it odes usually
>>>> load and install  into a perfectly workable windows like
>>>> environment, albeit one that doesn't blue screen or crash
>>> I would beg to differ about that "doesn't crash" assertion.
>>>
>>> It used to be with slow stable development with xfree86 that the
>>> X11 server was rock solid, but nowadays with Xorg rapid "let the
>>> user do the beta testing", just scrolling the mouse in Firefox can
>>> cause the whole system to lock up.
>>>
>>>             EQ overflowing ...
>> When I first started running Linux (Red Hat Linux 5.0, 5.2, 6.various,
>> the window stuff would lock up sometimes. Luckily, I could usually get
>> in from my other machine, using ssh, abd kill the X window system and
>> restart it.
> You guys are aware of the "magic SysRq" keys, aren't you?
>
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_sysrq

I used to know about that.

When X would lock up, I first tried Control-Alt-Backspace, but usually X
was so locked up it would not recognize that.
Then I would do Sys-Request-whatever and it would not recognize that
either. But since ssh would log in from my other machine, it seemed to
me that the kernel was up. And Sys-request would work fine when the
system was up.

It is always worth a try, but I am surprised anyone has trouble with X
window system these days.
>
> As long as the kernel is still alive, they will work, provided of course 
> that the kernel has been compiled with support for SysRq - which is the 
> case in most binary distributions - and that SysRq is enabled in the 
> system via /etc/sysctl.conf (via the line "kernel.sysrq=1").
>
> Just mentioning that because a lot of people are inclined to think that 
> if X locks up for some reason, the whole system has gone belly up and 
> they need to press The Big Scary Button ™ on the computer housing. ;-)
>

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#8172

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-05-16 18:56 +0000
Message-ID<kn3a42$cmi$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8162
On Thursday, May 16th, 2013, at 08:25:36h -0400, Jean-David Beyer wrote:

> but I am surprised anyone has trouble with X window system these days.

You must live a very sheltered life then.  ;)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#8173

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-16 20:33 +0100
Message-ID<kn3c9u$tai$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8172
On 16/05/13 19:56, J G Miller wrote:
> On Thursday, May 16th, 2013, at 08:25:36h -0400, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>> but I am surprised anyone has trouble with X window system these days.
> You must live a very sheltered life then.  ;)
Well yes, perhaps we do. Not everybody who installs linux is actually 
that interested in it as something to tinker with. Millions of users 
slap in a noob distro like mint, discover they have a full office suite, 
a browser, and email system, stuff to play videos on and listen to music 
with and realise that they have all they actually need to USE a 
desktop/laptop computer for less money than windows and about 10 times 
the stability.

I admit to having issues with video drivers, but not with the x-windows 
system AT ALL.


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8174

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-05-16 19:35 +0000
Message-ID<kn3ce8$nbf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8173
On Thursday, May 16th, 2013, at 20:33:19h +0100,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I admit to having issues with video drivers, but not with the x-windows 
> system AT ALL.

Good for you.

That in now way however negates the plethora of problems that
users do experience with the current version of the Xorg server
and particularly the [free] modules nouveau and radeon, and the
proprietary module from nVidia and fglrx from AMD.

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#8175

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-16 20:43 +0100
Message-ID<kn3cta$u10$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8174
On 16/05/13 20:35, J G Miller wrote:
> On Thursday, May 16th, 2013, at 20:33:19h +0100,
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> I admit to having issues with video drivers, but not with the x-windows
>> system AT ALL.
> Good for you.
>
> That in now way however negates the plethora of problems that
> users do experience with the current version of the Xorg server
> and particularly the [free] modules nouveau and radeon, and the
> proprietary module from nVidia and fglrx from AMD.
those are the drivers..

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8184

Frombruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair)
Date2013-05-19 23:33 +0000
Message-ID<knbqq4$ss2$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8173
In article <kn3c9u$tai$1@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 16/05/13 19:56, J G Miller wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 16th, 2013, at 08:25:36h -0400, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>>
>>> but I am surprised anyone has trouble with X window system these days.
>> You must live a very sheltered life then.  ;)
>Well yes, perhaps we do. Not everybody who installs linux is actually 
>that interested in it as something to tinker with. Millions of users 
>slap in a noob distro like mint, discover they have a full office suite, 
>a browser, and email system, stuff to play videos on and listen to music 
>with and realise that they have all they actually need to USE a 
>desktop/laptop computer for less money than windows and about 10 times 
>the stability.
>
>I admit to having issues with video drivers, but not with the x-windows 
>system AT ALL.

+1 on that. Only windows I've had lock up have been wine ones ... and we 
know where the blame lies there. :) :)
Killing off the process works fine in that case. No harm done. :) :)

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#8177

FromJean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
Date2013-05-16 16:16 -0400
Message-ID<kn3eq512g76@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#8172
On 05/16/2013 02:56 PM, J G Miller wrote:
> On Thursday, May 16th, 2013, at 08:25:36h -0400, Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
>> but I am surprised anyone has trouble with X window system these days.
> You must live a very sheltered life then.  ;)
I do: I run Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and that stuff has always worked.

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#8145

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-15 17:44 +0100
Message-ID<kn0e19$7pb$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8143
On 15/05/13 16:27, Peter Percival wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 10/05/13 16:50, Peter Percival wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 09/05/13 20:09, Peter Percival wrote:
>>>>> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows
>>>>> 7, and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
>>>>> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_
>>>>> on an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same 
>>>>> CD on
>>>>> both machines, I would like to try it on the notebook. I know nothing
>>>>> about Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which 
>>>>> Linux
>>>>> to download will be gratefully received.
>>>> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look
>>>
>>> That's one thing against it then!
>>>
>>
>> OK, there's a data point. What don't you like about XP that you hope a
>> linux system will solve?
>
> Actually, I misspoke: it's XP (and most things MS Windows) that I 
> don't like, rather than the _look_ of XP.  What I don't like about MS 
> Windows is that it has its own way of doing things (that's ok) and 
> that it makes it very difficult for the user (who, after all, has paid 
> for the blasted thing) to do things as he wishes (which is far from ok).
>

well yes. I never went further with  XP than a way to simply load and 
run windows based applications.

What I meant about mint, is that the Maya desktop has a sort of 'main 
menu' button, task bars  and the ability to easily make clickable 
programme launches on the desktop and a more or less windows like 
(gnome) way of configuring things that  makes it easy to transition to 
if you are used to XP.

>> Remember all the distros are  a similar core, similar if not  the same
>> apps, with really just a different level of utilities and most
>> importantly a window manager /desktop environment that defines the GUI
>> look and feel.
>>
>> If you dont look under the hood the most important thing will be
>> installation ease and look and feel. If you DO look under the hood these
>> things are almost irrelevant, because you can in principle change them
>> with greater or less pain.
>
> I expect to look.

MMM. in which case you will find the differences are more or less cosmetic.
I.e. it is in theory possible to get the Debian->ubuntu->mint distro to 
run half a dozen window managers but the underlying non windows env. is 
all the same really.

All I can say is 'out of the box' I found Mint to be roughly what I 
wanted - a gnome 2 environment done better. so menus and so on are more 
or less where they are expected.

and under the hood its debian/ubuntu., so config files are more or less 
where expected.

But I actually did less with mint than debian stable, largely because 
debian stable as SO far behind the leading edge I was always having to 
add custom hacks to deal with hardware and so on. I.e I was finding that 
the apps on debian stable were full of bugs THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN FIXED 
UPSTREAM..

so it made a good server, but a lousy desktop.

Ubuntu takes IIRC debian unstable or testing - can't remember which - 
and fixes the bugs AT the leading edge. So at least the applications are 
up to snuff.

So I would have gone Ubuntu, except gnome 3 and/or Unity were vile. 
hated them.

Mint Maya gave me a gnome2 plus experience. Not perhaps the greatest 
desktop of all time, but close enough to what I was used to. It works 
for me anyway. And I don't CARE  that much about desktops. As long as 
there are things to click to launch programs and otherwise its fairly 
bare, that's good enough for me.

The one are it was dire was stock video playing tools. I tried them all 
and ended up with kaffeine and VLC..neither of which is perfect, but 
each does a job. The old Gnome Totem media player is total junk ...

..

>
>>
>


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8149

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2013-05-15 13:44 -0500
Message-ID<mrOdnWuq96YJSg7MnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#8145
At Wed, 15 May 2013 17:44:25 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On 15/05/13 16:27, Peter Percival wrote:
> > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >> On 10/05/13 16:50, Peter Percival wrote:
> >>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >>>> On 09/05/13 20:09, Peter Percival wrote:
> >>>>> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows
> >>>>> 7, and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
> >>>>> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_
> >>>>> on an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same 
> >>>>> CD on
> >>>>> both machines, I would like to try it on the notebook. I know nothing
> >>>>> about Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which 
> >>>>> Linux
> >>>>> to download will be gratefully received.
> >>>> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look
> >>>
> >>> That's one thing against it then!
> >>>
> >>
> >> OK, there's a data point. What don't you like about XP that you hope a
> >> linux system will solve?
> >
> > Actually, I misspoke: it's XP (and most things MS Windows) that I 
> > don't like, rather than the _look_ of XP.  What I don't like about MS 
> > Windows is that it has its own way of doing things (that's ok) and 
> > that it makes it very difficult for the user (who, after all, has paid 
> > for the blasted thing) to do things as he wishes (which is far from ok).
> >
> 
> well yes. I never went further with  XP than a way to simply load and 
> run windows based applications.
> 
> What I meant about mint, is that the Maya desktop has a sort of 'main 
> menu' button, task bars  and the ability to easily make clickable 
> programme launches on the desktop and a more or less windows like 
> (gnome) way of configuring things that  makes it easy to transition to 
> if you are used to XP.

This is basically true of almost *all* the (Linux) *Desktop* managers,
starting with Gnome and KDE.


-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments

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#8152

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-15 20:37 +0100
Message-ID<kn0o6i$s2c$3@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8149
On 15/05/13 19:44, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Wed, 15 May 2013 17:44:25 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/13 16:27, Peter Percival wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 10/05/13 16:50, Peter Percival wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/05/13 20:09, Peter Percival wrote:
>>>>>>> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows
>>>>>>> 7, and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
>>>>>>> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_
>>>>>>> on an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same
>>>>>>> CD on
>>>>>>> both machines, I would like to try it on the notebook. I know nothing
>>>>>>> about Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which
>>>>>>> Linux
>>>>>>> to download will be gratefully received.
>>>>>> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look
>>>>> That's one thing against it then!
>>>>>
>>>> OK, there's a data point. What don't you like about XP that you hope a
>>>> linux system will solve?
>>> Actually, I misspoke: it's XP (and most things MS Windows) that I
>>> don't like, rather than the _look_ of XP.  What I don't like about MS
>>> Windows is that it has its own way of doing things (that's ok) and
>>> that it makes it very difficult for the user (who, after all, has paid
>>> for the blasted thing) to do things as he wishes (which is far from ok).
>>>
>> well yes. I never went further with  XP than a way to simply load and
>> run windows based applications.
>>
>> What I meant about mint, is that the Maya desktop has a sort of 'main
>> menu' button, task bars  and the ability to easily make clickable
>> programme launches on the desktop and a more or less windows like
>> (gnome) way of configuring things that  makes it easy to transition to
>> if you are used to XP.
> This is basically true of almost *all* the (Linux) *Desktop* managers,
> starting with Gnome and KDE.
>
not gnome3 or I think Unity.



-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8137

From"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com>
Date2013-05-14 13:51 -0400
Message-ID<h6aa6a-h2q.ln1@cfaj.to>
In reply to#8053
On 2013-05-09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
...
> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look and feel

   Really?

   I installed Mint last week, and it looks and feels exactly the same
   as my previous Mandriva system. That would be true no matter what
   distro I installed.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com>
   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

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#8138

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-14 21:16 +0100
Message-ID<kmu632$bn1$3@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8137
On 14/05/13 18:51, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On 2013-05-09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> ...
>> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look and feel
>     Really?
>
>     I installed Mint last week, and it looks and feels exactly the same
>     as my previous Mandriva system. That would be true no matter what
>     distro I installed.
>
Didn't know mandriva had Maya desktop env.


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8140

From"Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com>
Date2013-05-14 17:49 -0400
Message-ID<o3oa6a-1f7.ln1@cfaj.to>
In reply to#8138
On 2013-05-14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 14/05/13 18:51, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>> On 2013-05-09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> ...
>>> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look and feel
>>     Really?
>>
>>     I installed Mint last week, and it looks and feels exactly the same
>>     as my previous Mandriva system. That would be true no matter what
>>     distro I installed.
>>
> Didn't know mandriva had Maya desktop env.

   You can install whatever you like on any distro.

   I use WindowMaker which is available in every distro I've looked
   at.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com>
   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

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#8141

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-15 00:02 +0100
Message-ID<kmufqs$voo$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8140
On 14/05/13 22:49, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On 2013-05-14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 14/05/13 18:51, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>> On 2013-05-09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> linux mint is probably the closest to a windows XP look and feel
>>>      Really?
>>>
>>>      I installed Mint last week, and it looks and feels exactly the same
>>>      as my previous Mandriva system. That would be true no matter what
>>>      distro I installed.
>>>
>> Didn't know mandriva had Maya desktop env.
>     You can install whatever you like on any distro.
you can spray a car any colour you like too, but the point of distros is 
you dont have to.

>     I use WindowMaker which is available in every distro I've looked
>     at.
>


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8054

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2013-05-09 15:03 -0500
Message-ID<5uadnWrq2NK-nBHMnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#8050
At Thu, 09 May 2013 20:09:17 +0100 Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7, 
> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download 
> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on 
> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both 
> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about 
> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to 
> download will be gratefully received.

Yes, you can download any number of 'live' CD ISOs, burn as many copies as you 
like and use them on as many computers as you like.

You probably should download a current incarnation of Ubuntu. The 'elderly'
computer is probably 32-bit (i386) and the Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook is
*probably* 64-bit (am64). You can download the 32-bit (i386) ISO file can use
that on either machine (although if the new machine has more than 4gig of RAM
it won't all be accessable with the 32-bit incarnation). Alternitively, you
can download and burn one of each type: 32-bit (i386) and 64-bit (am64) and
use the 32-bit (i386) on on the elderly Windows XP computer and the 64-bit
(am64) one on the Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook.

You can get Ubuntu from www.ubuntu.com.

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments

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#8186

FromPeter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com>
Date2013-05-23 14:09 +0100
Message-ID<knl4f0$hqh$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8054
Robert Heller wrote:
> At Thu, 09 May 2013 20:09:17 +0100 Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
>> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
>> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
>> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both
>> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about
>> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
>> download will be gratefully received.
>
> Yes, you can download any number of 'live' CD ISOs, burn as many copies as you
> like and use them on as many computers as you like.
>
> You probably should download a current incarnation of Ubuntu. The 'elderly'
> computer is probably 32-bit (i386)

Pentium II, I think.

> and the Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook is
> *probably* 64-bit (am64).

My output of my first Perl program tells me (irrelevant stuff snipped):

PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE=AMD64
PROCESSOR_IDENTIFIER=Intel64 Family 6 Model 42 Stepping 7, GenuineIntel
PROCESSOR_LEVEL=6
PROCESSOR_REVISION=2a07

I can't reconcile the mention of both AMD and Intel.

(The program is from page 151 of Schwartz, Olsen and Christiansen, 
/Learning Perl on Win32 Systems/, O'Reilly.)

-- 
I think I am an Elephant,
Behind another Elephant
Behind /another/ Elephant who isn't really there....
				A.A. Milne

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