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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 500 — 33 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:43 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:04 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:26 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:39 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:31 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:09 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:16 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:56 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-21 14:23 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:22 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:04 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:07 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:26 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 11:49 -0700
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Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
[OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
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Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
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Page 15 of 25 — ← Prev page 1 … 13 14 [15] 16 17 … 25 Next page →
| From | Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e712j.1hu2.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> |
| In reply to | #94757 |
On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later > with terminals as they became available around campus. For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <20261029124542.471@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote: > On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later >> with terminals as they became available around campus. > > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". By January 1st, 1979, 87.395% of all university access methods to computers were interactive visual terminals rather than TTYs or other. (With a 95% confidence interval of +/- 0.003% based on the polled sample size.) A coordinated mass conversion, to visual terminals, of all remaining teletype and other non-visual terminals attached to legacy time sharing systems, at all university campuses around the world, took place on September 13, 1983, now remembered as "T day". Engineering students in New York celebrated by suspending a chain of seven key punch machines from the Brooklyn Bridge. -- TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <damcrmx02i.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On 2026-10-29 18:37, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later >> with terminals as they became available around campus. > > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". > Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals earlier. Maybe what counts is the department that teaches programming to students buys the terminals, which is an important investment. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e7f9k.1n8k.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> |
| In reply to | #94782 |
On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". > > Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their punch card days. And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than engineering. > I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals > earlier. That's one data point, thanks. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c0mir$3qofm$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 29/10/2026 21:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> >> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. > > I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? > I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect > opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their > punch card days. > Well in 1969 it was flexowriters and an Elliot computer and paper tape. It was so bad I gave up on computers till around 1980 At some point a friend with more money than sense started building an S100 computer. 6800 based I think. Think he had a serial terminal But what then happened was PC's and computers with keyboards and monitors and no one cared about terminals much. Unless you were running UNIX and a multiuser setup. I remember 32 Wyse 50s on a sco unix 386 box with a custom serial card. That was a popular corporate setup. > And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than > engineering. > >> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals >> earlier. > > That's one data point, thanks. > That vaguely gybes with my memory. I THINK that serial terminals for micros existed prior to 1980, but have no idea about mainframes etc. VT100 was a 1978 released serial terminal It was essentially the benchmark Later terminals were cheaper, but the VT100 was the first I can recall However... "DEC's first video terminal was the VT05 (1970), succeeded by the VT50 (1974), and soon upgraded to the VT52 (1975). The VT52 featured a text display with 80 columns and 24 rows, bidirectional scrolling, and a custom control protocol that allowed the cursor to be moved about the screen. " I think that the Vt52 was about the first time a 'glass teletype' actually became more cost effective than a teletype -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them."
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| From | Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e9d2j.2d48.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> |
| In reply to | #94789 |
On 2026-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > That vaguely gybes with my memory. I THINK that serial terminals for > micros existed prior to 1980, but have no idea about mainframes etc. > > VT100 was a 1978 released serial terminal Somewhat famously the arrival of some ADM-3A terminals prompted Bill Joy to extend his ex(1) editor with a visual mode, i.e., vi(1). That was circa 1977. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ifRES.91546$Gau3.37669@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> >> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. > > I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? > I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect > opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their > punch card days. > > And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than > engineering. > >> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals >> earlier. > > That's one data point, thanks. I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. There was a number of hard-copy terminals, many of them dialup: IBM 2741, Teletype 33, 35, and even a few 37s. But billing (in computer centre funny money, issued to students at the start of a term) was given a fudge factor of 1.4 for terminal access. Most of us contented ourselves with either using the RJE terminal (originally staffed with an operator who collected a ticket for each run, later self-serve IIRC), or dropping our cards into a tray and coming back the next day to pick up the results (which incurred only a 0.4 fudge factor, which was great for conserving CC$ that were running low by the end of the term). -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkil10FinrcU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94790 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they > converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I > wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where there was a lot more happening. My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her programming course was in some language that I don't think survived either.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c1tv5$5sgi$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote: > her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. Probably ALGOL. That was all the rage back then -- Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkk3qbFinrcU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94806 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 11:10:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote: >> her programming course was in some language that I don't think survived >> either. > > Probably ALGOL. > > That was all the rage back then I think it was something even stranger, maybe SNOBOL. I'll see if she remembers the next time I talk to her. She may have repressed the entire experience. I wouldn't say SUNY was a diploma mill but it had over 10,000 students even back then and was industrial scale education.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e9k3o.n12.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 2026-10-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they >> converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I >> wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. > > The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The > 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the > later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of > the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where > there was a lot more happening. > > My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. > I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. Speaking of space limitations in the 360 architecture: Early in my career, 1985 IIRC, I was charged with running full-chip switch-mode logic similation of the first 960 processor and got to use an EDAC machine all by myself. Normal IBM machines at the time were limited to a 24-bit address space for a given virtual machine under VM/CMS. IBM had built a very small handful of machines that supported a larger address space. IBM owed Intel some money at that time. To pay that debt, IBM loaned Intel an EDAC machine. It was used for full-chip switch-mode logic simulation of the 386. Immediately after the 386 taped out and was finished with the machine, I was tasked with running the full-chip logic similation for the 960 chip. Largely due to several rounds of microcode bug fixes, our tapeout slipped beyond the date IBM had agreed to loan Intel the machine. For the remaining time we needed to use it, I was told the rent was $150k/month. I was the only user. That rent was well over an order of magnitude larger than my salary. No pressure... -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ga6FS.16032$WY1.4425@fx06.iad> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 2026-10-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they >> converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I >> wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. > > The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The > 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the > later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of > the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where > there was a lot more happening. This machine didn't run an IBM operating system; it ran MTS, the Michigan Terminal System. It was far better at timesharing than any IBM operating system. > My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. > I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. One course when I was there hit you with a different language every two weeks: Algol 60, Algol 68, Algol W, pl360 (the misbegotten bastard child of Algol and assembly language), LISP, UMIST, SNOBOL4... Fortunately I dropped out before I had to take that one. I did a term project in assembly language - my prof kept getting a pained expression as he repeatedly asked me why I would do such a thing. I left for a programming job in the Real World, writing assembly language and RPG for a card-based system with 16K of memory. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <18e361f191ae2cbb$1317$3179723$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 21:40:04 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> There were only PCs when I was there, but my school also had access to time sharing with the mainframes of the Michigan Terminal System, or MTS: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Terminal_System> On an early morning (about 2 am) job run, I literally brought the mainframe to its knees while simultaneously burning up the entire annual department time-sharing budget, via an extensive numerical simulation involving 500x500 matrix calculations. From that experience I learned a valuable computer science lesson that is not found in the standard textbooks: the most powerful digital computers are DAMNED SLOW AND IMPOTENT. I ended up doing the simulation on a desktop PC using almost 4 WEEKS of runtime. My current desktop is probably a lot more powerful than those mainframes but most tasks of interest are still largely untouchable.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ha6FS.16033$WY1.2182@fx06.iad> |
| In reply to | #94811 |
On 2026-10-30, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote: > On an early morning (about 2 am) job run, I literally brought the > mainframe to its knees while simultaneously burning up the entire > annual department time-sharing budget, via an extensive numerical > simulation involving 500x500 matrix calculations. > > From that experience I learned a valuable computer science lesson > that is not found in the standard textbooks: the most powerful > digital computers are DAMNED SLOW AND IMPOTENT. I wouldn't call that a computer science lesson; many CS weenies assume that computers are infinitely powerful, and start whining when confronted with systems in the real world. I had a confrontation with a guy like that when trying to determine why a COBOL program was running like molasses through a pinhole in January. One reason was that this genius had declared all subscripts as COMP-3 (packed decimal) rather than binary. Just changing those declarations alone knocked 30% off the execution time. I wish I could have had more time to work on that program; I bet I could have really sped it up. I calculated that the nested PERFORM VARYING loop that cleared a 3-dimensional array would have taken 25 minutes of the estimated 50-hour run time, due to a combination of those decimal subscripts and subroutine calling overhead. (The CPU did about 130 KIPS.) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <18e367c1df8453cf$117$2902356$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #94814 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 19:25:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >> From that experience I learned a valuable computer science lesson >> that is not found in the standard textbooks: the most powerful >> digital computers are DAMNED SLOW AND IMPOTENT. > > I wouldn't call that a computer science lesson; many CS weenies > assume that computers are infinitely powerful, and start whining when > confronted with systems in the real world. I had a confrontation > with a guy like that when trying to determine why a COBOL program > was running like molasses through a pinhole in January. One reason > was that this genius had declared all subscripts as COMP-3 (packed > decimal) rather than binary. Just changing those declarations alone > knocked 30% off the execution time. I wish I could have had more > time to work on that program; I bet I could have really sped it up. > I calculated that the nested PERFORM VARYING loop that cleared a > 3-dimensional array would have taken 25 minutes of the estimated > 50-hour run time, due to a combination of those decimal subscripts > and subroutine calling overhead. (The CPU did about 130 KIPS.) > Optimization can only go so far. That's why supercomputers are being continually developed. But yes, software optimization is quite important and very much can be said about it, but most users will not ever need to be aware. Modern hardware can handle most routine computing tasks very efficiently. It is only fringe activities, such as video encoding or scientific calculations, that require massive hardware power. One hardware problem that needs to be fixed above all else is memory speed. Currently, all RAM is just another storage layer. The CPU does not directly process RAM data, but only data that has been transferred from RAM to cache memory -- and only first order cache at that. This ridiculous situation can seriously degrade performance if the programmer is not continually vigilant. I would claim that this "cache problem" is the most critical of all. The company that could produce cheap RAM memory on par with cache speeds would make $trillions overnight.
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| From | jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <87tsm1aoxo.fsf@atr2.ath.cx> |
| In reply to | #94811 |
Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> writes:
> There were only PCs when I was there, but my school also had access
> to time sharing with the mainframes of the Michigan Terminal System,
> or MTS:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Terminal_System>
You can run this under SDL Hercules. I have a D6 system. Unfortunately,
there's not much installed in the way of software, it doesn't have any
languages I really know, and it couldn't do networking last I checked
(the SDL Hercules project w/MTS - the real machine could or so I
heard). Still, it's fun and gives me a reason to dust off the x3270.
https://try-mts.com/why-try-mts/
https://sdl-hercules-390.github.io/html/
It has this thing where, after a day or two, it wants to dump its stats
to "tape" and you have to do a dance with it, only it does not want to
take its tape, like a kid does not want to eat lima beans.
00049 MTS *DWB: MOUNT NEW CMDSTAT TAPE RING IN WITH RACK M002 FOR INITIALIZAT
This is what it looks like if/when you win:
00049 MTS SYS.: F (1 9TP) M002 on 9TP, ring IN, 'CMDSTAT' ********************
OK M002 T90A
The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more software.
> My current desktop is probably a lot more powerful than those
> mainframes but most tasks of interest are still largely untouchable.
Absolutely. A smartphone is.
--
PGP Key ID: 781C A3E2 C6ED 70A6 B356 7AF5 B510 542E D460 5CAE
"The Internet should always be the Wild West!"
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c5n4b$1f300$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94849 |
On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: > The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more > software. If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection.
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nklvdeFas32U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 2026-10-29 22:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
>>
>> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.
>
> I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you?
> I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect
> opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their
> punch card days.
>
> And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than
> engineering.
>
>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals
>> earlier.
>
> That's one data point, thanks.
I was forced by the system to take first year of engineering at the
university in my province. All engineering had the same first year. Once
we (if!) we passed, we could actually choose what college to continue
in. So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that was in
the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was shared by
all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and that I had
just missed it.
And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had to
suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take days.
(I think that the school in which he did the first year had some
computer thing in the Maths course, but I don't remember well what he
told me)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c529k$nak9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94836 |
On 2026-10-31 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote: > [...] So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that was in > the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was shared by > all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and that I had > just missed it. > > And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had to > suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take days. Strong words. And absurd time scales. They certainly don't match my observations. All of us did our punch cards based coding often just during the pauses between the lectures; the basic code maybe in an hour, the fixes - usually just one or two iterations needed - done during the "cum tempore" 10 minutes. But most programming in those early beginner courses also wasn't too voluminous, to be fair. What certainly was painful was the (for obvious reasons) inherent non-existence of a <Del> or <Backspace> key on the punch devices. (They had a useful "Copy" key (<Dup>?), though.)[*] BTW, a "nightmare" I considered the keyboards that came with the VT100 series of terminals! (My fingers still ache if I only think back of these days!) Luckily these times passed fast. Janis, now back at his Model-M keyboard clone [*] IIRC, they looked like (or may even have been) these devices: https://mimmsmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Punchcard-708x1024.jpg (For those who couldn't imagine what we dinosaurs are talking about.) :-) Still amazing seeing images of these devices again after all those many decades. > [...]
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkmsliFftpsU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94851 |
On 2026-10-31 16:42, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-10-31 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> [...] So, when I arrived to Madrid for my second year (I think that
>> was in the 83), a friend told me that the computer building that was
>> shared by all in the campus had switched from cards to terminals, and
>> that I had just missed it.
>>
>> And he described me the nightmare that first/second year students had
>> to suffer to get their stack of cards punched and executed. Could take
>> days.
>
> Strong words. And absurd time scales. They certainly don't match my
> observations. All of us did our punch cards based coding often just
> during the pauses between the lectures; the basic code maybe in an
> hour, the fixes - usually just one or two iterations needed - done
> during the "cum tempore" 10 minutes. But most programming in those
> early beginner courses also wasn't too voluminous, to be fair.
>
> What certainly was painful was the (for obvious reasons) inherent
> non-existence of a <Del> or <Backspace> key on the punch devices.
> (They had a useful "Copy" key (<Dup>?), though.)[*]
I don't remember if my friend punched his own code, or had it punched.
Would depend on how many punch machines they had for lowly students.
I remember his saying that he had to submit his stack of cards to a
clerk, then given a paper slip to collect the results another day.
...
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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