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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 302 — 24 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:22 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-19 03:55 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:20 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:19 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:36 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:35 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:18 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 12:12 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 13:43 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:37 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 09:07 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 13:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:04 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-16 23:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:54 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:58 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "De ongekruisigde ds." <ongekruisigde-ds@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Page 5 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 16 Next page →
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <IYSAS.85679$TYg.73324@fx21.iad> |
| In reply to | #94078 |
On 2026-10-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > I saw an harmonium in a church in which the entire keyboard could be > raised and moved left or right. Cool - the great-grandaddy of the pitch bend wheel. :-) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b286r$11pis$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94091 |
On 17/10/2026 23:50, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> I saw an harmonium in a church in which the entire keyboard could be >> raised and moved left or right. > > Cool - the great-grandaddy of the pitch bend wheel. :-) > The Hammond organ was a beast...synchronous motors driving toothed steel wheels next to magnetic pickups,..with a spring reverb in the base. Keith Emerson used to switch off the drive motor to bend the pitch down, and stick knives in the keyboard to create drones and pick the whole thing up and drop it to make a dramatic 'cymbal crash' All while burning an American flag. Of course, it was all basic 'music theory' ....not... -- “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!” Mary Wollstonecraft
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <etmeqmxr7l.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94091 |
On 2026-10-18 00:50, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-17, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> I saw an harmonium in a church in which the entire keyboard could be >> raised and moved left or right. > > Cool - the great-grandaddy of the pitch bend wheel. :-) > I think I have seen that but did not know what it was! Searching... well, kind of. This is not continuous, it is in half note steps, and semi permanent, not to be used in the middle of a song. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <piqcqmxlgi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93868 |
On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>> is very little science in engineering. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >> >> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >> > That is of course bollocks > No engineer would have written that > > A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five > bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) > >> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using scientific principles" > > Again its bollocks. > > "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, > engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges > using *whatever systems work* in the context. > > Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill for > grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its design Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b27g5$11pis$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94045 |
On 17/10/2026 19:15, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>>> is very little science in engineering. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >>> >>> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >>> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >>> >> That is of course bollocks >> No engineer would have written that >> >> A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five >> bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) >> >>> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >>> >>> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >>> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or >>> bridges >>> using scientific principles" >> >> Again its bollocks. >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using *whatever systems work* in the context. >> >> Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill >> for grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its >> design > > Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear > reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. > That is called 'experience' and is what you learnt as a midshipman > It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. > Of course it is. An experience sailor could look at a ship and say 'that's too much sail for this wind' and if he didnt have a naval crew, but merely a commercial one, he'd take in a few reefs. If you have the crew, you can do that pretty much right up to the point the ship is in danger of keeling over You have been too exposed to modern techno myth that it's all science and maths. It isn't, and the further back you go the less it was, right back to using a branch to roll over a rock, or chipping a stone to make an axe. Some tribes still existing do not have words for number at all. One. Many? Others do not have words for distance. When all you can see is the rain forest 5 feet away, there isn't much call for it. Technology and the art of making it is the history of thousands of years of trial and error, with the 'right way' a closely guarded secret held by closed guilds. The modern affectation that it's 'applied science' is just stupid people saying stupid things, trying to elevate science above its correct position -- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H.L.Mencken
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18df0a68a1e460b8$2716$2693458$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #93819 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:55:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > > In fact almost all design is done by draughtsmen > > Or technicians. > > I learnt this at my first company - a military and aerospace company. > Boffins were very thin on the ground. What there were, were enormous > quantities of low paid technicians, who understood enough to take > something someone else had designed, often from another project, and > fiddle with it till it met the spec. > That's describes the "99+ percent" that was referred to in an earlier post. But to get to Mars, or back to the moon, will require the "1- percent." Technological progress cannot be sustained by mere technicians or draftsman.
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| From | "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87ecdq41bl.fsf@solcaium.us> |
| In reply to | #93801 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: > On 10/16/26 00:53, Peyton wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: >> >>> On 10/15/26 23:26, Leroy H wrote: >>>> It is amazing how knowledge of basic CS is absent in most >>>> programmers, both professional and amateur alike. While >>>> "vibe coding" is all the rage, a silent disaster is also >>>> creeping. >>> >>> 99+ percent of us got by just fine without >>> any "computer science" crapola. >>> >>> CS is all math/stats. Has almost nothing to >>> do with the real-world these days. Maybe in >>> the 1940s ....... >>> >>> Might, MAYBE, produce a useful idea, every, >>> very, once in awhile. >>> >> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C# >> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python >> script. > > Worrisome. > > However do note that MOST of the Python functions > are writ in 'C'. > >> Not having basic CS fundamentals does have real implications in >> everyday software. > > Not so much. > When you don't know the basics you'll make some bone headed decisions that'll impact efficiency and/or correctness. Hopefully the AI tool being used will catch it. But from my experience it doesn't do it all the time and will even encourage bad practices. > Yer guy didn't need a CS degree - just someone > to TELL him the diff between compiled and > interpreted. That's all. > I agree. That is the very issue. I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is basic CS. --
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11askn8$33cuk$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93804 |
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: > I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is > basic CS. Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might think is even more basic CS. After all, where does “hardware” end and “software” begin? On which side of the line do you place things like “firmware” (note the name) and “microcode”? The “P” in “PLA” stands for “programmable”; does that mean the gate connections are still “hardware”, or not?
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| From | "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 08:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87fqy5d55d.fsf@solcaium.us> |
| In reply to | #93809 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: > >> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is >> basic CS. > > Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might > think is even more basic CS. > Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty insignificant. --
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11atmpr$3g7mv$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93880 |
On 16/10/2026 16:41, Peyton wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: >> >>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is >>> basic CS. >> >> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >> think is even more basic CS. >> > Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty insignificant. > > All CISC chips use interpreters to interpret 'machine code' Even a basic CPU like a 6502 is a sort of 'interpreter' As usual the deeper you go, the less the simple stories hold true -- If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. Joseph Goebbels
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 21:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11au6gp$3m5co$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93880 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 08:41:34 -0700, Peyton wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: >> >>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted >>> is basic CS. >> >> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >> think is even more basic CS. >> > Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty > insignificant. Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? How did that come about? Is your browser running a JavaScript compiler, or a JavaScript interpreter? It’s really kind of a mixture of both, isn’t it?
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18df272280514571$11044$2836843$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #93935 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> > Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too > slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have > entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the > desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? > Apparently it is not fast enough as we now have WebAssembly: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ph7DJ6Xy7c>
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <8i2dqmxou3.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93950 |
On 2026-10-17 01:43, Leroy H wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >>> >> Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too >> slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have >> entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the >> desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? >> > > Apparently it is not fast enough as we now have WebAssembly: > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ph7DJ6Xy7c> > Video unavailable. The uploader has not made this video available in your country -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <D1qdnXfkH9BRF0n3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94081 |
On 10/17/26 16:31, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-17 01:43, Leroy H wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >>>> >>> Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too >>> slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have >>> entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the >>> desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? >>> >> >> Apparently it is not fast enough as we now have WebAssembly: >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ph7DJ6Xy7c> >> > > Video unavailable. > The uploader has not made this video available in your country Kind of my opinion on ANY JS required to display the basics - esp on world News sites. No screen - SKIP THEM and MOVE ON to alt sources. Their articles do not get seen, their advertisers do not get seen. FUCK them !
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njga01Fit4rU34@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93935 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > How did that come about? Is your browser running a JavaScript compiler, > or a JavaScript interpreter? It’s really kind of a mixture of both, > isn’t it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_(JavaScript_engine)
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b25t1$10nek$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93935 |
On 2026-10-16, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 08:41:34 -0700, Peyton wrote: > >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >> >>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: >>> >>>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted >>>> is basic CS. >>> >>> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >>> think is even more basic CS. >>> >> Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty >> insignificant. > > Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too > slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have > entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the > desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? > > How did that come about? Is your browser running a JavaScript > compiler, or a JavaScript interpreter? It’s really kind of a mixture > of both, isn’t it? It mainly happened through high-end devices being available to many webdevs, and with concerns about portability and accessibility being easier to disregard. The code is still slow and heavy, some things may have become more efficient, but that's arguably largely offset by many more additions to what's usually done in these webapps. But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform terribly (see e.g. CPython). -- Nuno Silva
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b28nt$11pis$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94128 |
On 18/10/2026 11:09, Nuno Silva wrote: > But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't > imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a > language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform > terribly (see e.g. CPython). Apocryphally Gary Kildall was called upon to fix some industrial assembler while on a vacation job. He rewrite in Fortran, It ran ten times faster. faster instructions are no substitute for shitty algorithms -- I would rather have questions that cannot be answered... ...than to have answers that cannot be questioned Richard Feynman
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:33 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <11b2apq$134sq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94142 |
On 18/10/2026 12:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 18/10/2026 11:09, Nuno Silva wrote: >> But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't >> imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a >> language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform >> terribly (see e.g. CPython). > > Apocryphally Gary Kildall was called upon to fix some industrial > assembler while on a vacation job. > > He rewrite in Fortran, It ran ten times faster. > > faster instructions are no substitute for shitty algorithms I once was asked to improve on a search on a website. They had forgotten to add an index to a very important column. From minutes to seconds :-D. -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 13:08 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b2cs4$11pis$23@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94155 |
On 18/10/2026 12:33, John Bokma wrote:
> On 18/10/2026 12:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 18/10/2026 11:09, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't
>>> imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a
>>> language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform
>>> terribly (see e.g. CPython).
>>
>> Apocryphally Gary Kildall was called upon to fix some industrial
>> assembler while on a vacation job.
>>
>> He rewrite in Fortran, It ran ten times faster.
>>
>> faster instructions are no substitute for shitty algorithms
>
> I once was asked to improve on a search on a website. They had forgotten
> to add an index to a very important column. From minutes to seconds :-D.
>
Oh yes.
I played around with mysql a fair bit a decade ago. For write rarely
read often indices are a must
--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 20:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njkng6Fei39U36@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94155 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 13:33:14 +0200, John Bokma wrote: > On 18/10/2026 12:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 18/10/2026 11:09, Nuno Silva wrote: >>> But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't >>> imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a >>> language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform >>> terribly (see e.g. CPython). >> >> Apocryphally Gary Kildall was called upon to fix some industrial >> assembler while on a vacation job. >> >> He rewrite in Fortran, It ran ten times faster. >> >> faster instructions are no substitute for shitty algorithms > > I once was asked to improve on a search on a website. They had forgotten > to add an index to a very important column. From minutes to seconds :-D. Our database had a couple of tables that were supposed to be used for BOLOs, people or vehicles that were of current interest, that would be periodically purged. Of course, that never happened. A site complained about slow searches and I found the non-indexed tables had over a million records each.
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