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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 473 — 31 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:16 +0100
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:19 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:36 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:35 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:18 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 12:12 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 13:43 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:37 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 09:07 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 13:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:04 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-16 23:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:54 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:58 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "De ongekruisigde ds." <ongekruisigde-ds@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Page 14 of 24 — ← Prev page 1 … 12 13 [14] 15 16 … 24 Next page →
| From | David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <XnsB4F3C606CC1B5hueydlltampabayrrcom@157.180.91.226> |
| In reply to | #94749 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in news:nkesjgF6rc9U1 @mid.individual.net: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 17:01:44 +0100, Josef Möllers wrote: > >> Ah ... yes ... The Olde Times ;-) >> I started studying CS in 1977 (after two years trying my luck at EE). >> Indeed, we too had to use punched cards in the beginning. > > The IBM 2260 terminal came out in 1964 but I didn't see one until I > interviewed with IBM/Owego in 1968. If there were any in the college they > were buried in a cave. > > I didn't get the job. IBM found my programming aptitude questionable. I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later with terminals as they became available around campus. I agree that cards or anything low tech makes the developer first think about what they want to build and then do so. I had a slight advantage by the time my parents let me take college level computing with a friend at high school. I started on paper with imaginary simple computers via a Saturday morning show on PBS or more likely WGN Chicago. That was much earlier in my life, perhaps Junior High when I was also in an elective class to earn my Amateur Radio Novice Licence. Upon earning that and quickly moving to Technician, I became a member of the local ARRL Club. There I met all kinds of electricians, radio and antenna experts, and one Advanced class leader with his own antenna farm on his farm. He was doing moon bounce and slow scan TV. He showed me his latest project -- a home built Z80 Computer that booted by flipping switches to input the very tiny OS or a simple program. Now that really helped me form my programming and diagnostic capabilities. Thankfully all the Hams and teachers I met over the years were eager to share their knowledge. I loved teachers from any class that would go outside the curriculum and teach students outside class too. I hated students that would interupt a teacher with a question like "Is that going to be on the test?". I loved great teachers and quickly exited the few classes with poor teachers. Starting early classes on any subject with "low tech" helps form the student's mind. Ah the memories of a life well lived. Thank you to all the teachers who helped us form our minds! P.S. During those first years on cards for FORTRAN and COBOL a friend and I "competed" for solving programs with the least lines, comments excluded.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkfha4F6rc9U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94757 |
On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 23:28:12 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue wrote: > That was much earlier in my life, perhaps Junior High when I was > also in an elective class to earn my Amateur Radio Novice Licence. Upon > earning that and quickly moving to Technician, I became a member of the > local ARRL Club. There I met all kinds of electricians, radio and > antenna experts, and one Advanced class leader with his own antenna farm > on his farm. He was doing moon bounce and slow scan TV. He showed me > his latest project -- a home built Z80 Computer that booted by flipping > switches to input the very tiny OS or a simple program. Now that really > helped me form my programming and diagnostic capabilities. The Sputnik launch awakened interest in STEM subjects but computers were exotic critters when I was in high school. The IBM System 360/30 was released in 1964. RPI had close ties with IBM and iirc had one by 1965. That's what I learned FORTRAN IV on. The Z80 was way in the future. I did eventually get a Amateur Radio license. I'm stubborn enough to keep my Advanced license. They ain't making them anymore but if you had one you could keep it. I wasn't that great with code so I never tried for Extra.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11bu51q$2u4ci$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94757 |
On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 23:28:12 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue wrote: > I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards > and later with terminals as they became available around campus. I > agree that cards or anything low tech makes the developer first > think about what they want to build and then do so. Imagine if your calculator was like that: you had to think carefully what you wanted to do, and write it down on a coding form or something, before simply switching the thing on and punching buttons ...
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <mIKdndv348emLH_3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94764 |
On 10/28/26 20:46, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 23:28:12 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue wrote: > >> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards >> and later with terminals as they became available around campus. I >> agree that cards or anything low tech makes the developer first >> think about what they want to build and then do so. > > Imagine if your calculator was like that: you had to think carefully > what you wanted to do, and write it down on a coding form or > something, before simply switching the thing on and punching buttons > ... Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago. Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER. That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <20261029091314.0000126b@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #94767 |
On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 22:36:37 -0400 c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago. > > Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER. > > That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code. :s/ensured/encouraged/
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <W0MES.44500$lAb6.5817@fx07.iad> |
| In reply to | #94773 |
On 2026-10-29, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 22:36:37 -0400 > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > >> Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago. >> >> Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER. >> >> That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code. > >:s/ensured/encouraged/ It also encouraged efficient, logical, consistent system design. There just weren't the resources to implement the kinds of cruft that seems to be mandatory these days. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <MgSdnZ8ls44203n3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94777 |
On 10/29/26 14:13, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-10-29, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 22:36:37 -0400 >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> >>> Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago. >>> >>> Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER. >>> >>> That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code. >> >> :s/ensured/encouraged/ > > It also encouraged efficient, logical, consistent system design. > There just weren't the resources to implement the kinds of cruft > that seems to be mandatory these days. WILL still stick to my long-time rec that all 'computer' students START on micro-controllers. Teaches efficiency, exact crafting, some hint of the underlying electronics.
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| From | Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e712j.1hu2.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> |
| In reply to | #94757 |
On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later > with terminals as they became available around campus. For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <20261029124542.471@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote: > On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later >> with terminals as they became available around campus. > > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". By January 1st, 1979, 87.395% of all university access methods to computers were interactive visual terminals rather than TTYs or other. (With a 95% confidence interval of +/- 0.003% based on the polled sample size.) A coordinated mass conversion, to visual terminals, of all remaining teletype and other non-visual terminals attached to legacy time sharing systems, at all university campuses around the world, took place on September 13, 1983, now remembered as "T day". Engineering students in New York celebrated by suspending a chain of seven key punch machines from the Brooklyn Bridge. -- TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <damcrmx02i.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On 2026-10-29 18:37, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: > >> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later >> with terminals as they became available around campus. > > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". > Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals earlier. Maybe what counts is the department that teaches programming to students buys the terminals, which is an important investment. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e7f9k.1n8k.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> |
| In reply to | #94782 |
On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". > > Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their punch card days. And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than engineering. > I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals > earlier. That's one data point, thanks. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c0mir$3qofm$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 29/10/2026 21:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> >> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. > > I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? > I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect > opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their > punch card days. > Well in 1969 it was flexowriters and an Elliot computer and paper tape. It was so bad I gave up on computers till around 1980 At some point a friend with more money than sense started building an S100 computer. 6800 based I think. Think he had a serial terminal But what then happened was PC's and computers with keyboards and monitors and no one cared about terminals much. Unless you were running UNIX and a multiuser setup. I remember 32 Wyse 50s on a sco unix 386 box with a custom serial card. That was a popular corporate setup. > And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than > engineering. > >> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals >> earlier. > > That's one data point, thanks. > That vaguely gybes with my memory. I THINK that serial terminals for micros existed prior to 1980, but have no idea about mainframes etc. VT100 was a 1978 released serial terminal It was essentially the benchmark Later terminals were cheaper, but the VT100 was the first I can recall However... "DEC's first video terminal was the VT05 (1970), succeeded by the VT50 (1974), and soon upgraded to the VT52 (1975). The VT52 featured a text display with 80 columns and 24 rows, bidirectional scrolling, and a custom control protocol that allowed the cursor to be moved about the screen. " I think that the Vt52 was about the first time a 'glass teletype' actually became more cost effective than a teletype -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them."
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| From | Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e9d2j.2d48.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> |
| In reply to | #94789 |
On 2026-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > That vaguely gybes with my memory. I THINK that serial terminals for > micros existed prior to 1980, but have no idea about mainframes etc. > > VT100 was a 1978 released serial terminal Somewhat famously the arrival of some ADM-3A terminals prompted Bill Joy to extend his ex(1) editor with a visual mode, i.e., vi(1). That was circa 1977. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ifRES.91546$Gau3.37669@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #94786 |
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote: > On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >>> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". >> >> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department. > > I'm asking for personal recollections. When did it happen for you? > I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect > opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their > punch card days. > > And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than > engineering. > >> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals >> earlier. > > That's one data point, thanks. I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. There was a number of hard-copy terminals, many of them dialup: IBM 2741, Teletype 33, 35, and even a few 37s. But billing (in computer centre funny money, issued to students at the start of a term) was given a fudge factor of 1.4 for terminal access. Most of us contented ourselves with either using the RJE terminal (originally staffed with an operator who collected a ticket for each run, later self-serve IIRC), or dropping our cards into a tray and coming back the next day to pick up the results (which incurred only a 0.4 fudge factor, which was great for conserving CC$ that were running low by the end of the term). -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkil10FinrcU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94790 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they > converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I > wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where there was a lot more happening. My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her programming course was in some language that I don't think survived either.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c1tv5$5sgi$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote: > her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. Probably ALGOL. That was all the rage back then -- Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkk3qbFinrcU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94806 |
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 11:10:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote: >> her programming course was in some language that I don't think survived >> either. > > Probably ALGOL. > > That was all the rage back then I think it was something even stranger, maybe SNOBOL. I'll see if she remembers the next time I talk to her. She may have repressed the entire experience. I wouldn't say SUNY was a diploma mill but it had over 10,000 students even back then and was industrial scale education.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11e9k3o.n12.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #94792 |
On 2026-10-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> I attended university from 1968 to 1971. In the fall of 1968 they >> converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67. The 360 had a few 2260s, but I >> wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted. > > The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The > 360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the > later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of > the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where > there was a lot more happening. > > My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. > I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her > programming course was in some language that I don't think survived > either. Speaking of space limitations in the 360 architecture: Early in my career, 1985 IIRC, I was charged with running full-chip switch-mode logic similation of the first 960 processor and got to use an EDAC machine all by myself. Normal IBM machines at the time were limited to a 24-bit address space for a given virtual machine under VM/CMS. IBM had built a very small handful of machines that supported a larger address space. IBM owed Intel some money at that time. To pay that debt, IBM loaned Intel an EDAC machine. It was used for full-chip switch-mode logic simulation of the 386. Immediately after the 386 taped out and was finished with the machine, I was tasked with running the full-chip logic similation for the 960 chip. Largely due to several rounds of microcode bug fixes, our tapeout slipped beyond the date IBM had agreed to loan Intel the machine. For the remaining time we needed to use it, I was told the rent was $150k/month. I was the only user. That rent was well over an order of magnitude larger than my salary. No pressure... -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c0m0m$3q5il$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94778 |
On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: > For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common > on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". How about “the 1970s”?
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <6cqcnXMuGul9yXn3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94788 |
On 10/29/26 19:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: > >> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common >> on university campuses? Please be more specific than "the 1980s". > > How about “the 1970s”? Fair enough. As said, depends on WHERE. Where I was, first saw like a dozen 'public access' terminals in 1978. But you had to be 'authorized' - and for minor users it was just access to a few little databases. Even the 'big iron' (usually medium-iron) of the day couldn't handle TOO much stuff.
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