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The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn

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  The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-05 21:31 +0000
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-05 23:12 +0000
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-06 13:55 +0100
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2025-11-06 16:37 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-06 18:51 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-07 11:14 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-07 13:06 +0100
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-07 13:43 +0000
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-07 15:17 +0100
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-07 20:59 -0500
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 06:39 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 07:12 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-08 02:56 -0500
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 12:41 +0100
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:09 +0100
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-07 20:09 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-07 21:50 -0500
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 07:24 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-08 02:57 -0500
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 11:56 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:10 +0100
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 12:15 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 12:26 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:34 +0100
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 13:08 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:27 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 15:25 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:42 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-09 15:20 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:46 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 09:06 +0100
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-11-08 16:05 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 17:02 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 00:52 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 12:47 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 08:38 -0800
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 17:35 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 01:03 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 13:01 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 15:02 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:46 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:18 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 12:14 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:44 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:56 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 20:42 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 21:17 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 21:46 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 15:37 -0800
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:55 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:42 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 09:15 +0100
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 20:58 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:46 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 22:36 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 01:09 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 03:53 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:58 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:42 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:51 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 15:30 -0800
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 03:19 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 09:53 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:45 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:28 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 22:32 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-10 00:14 -0500
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-15 10:25 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-12 04:36 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-12 20:41 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 08:29 -0800
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 18:31 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 20:42 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 21:53 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 22:10 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 04:23 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 00:31 -0500
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 12:55 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:15 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:49 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 23:47 -0500
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:07 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 16:46 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 00:34 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 22:13 -0800
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 01:48 -0500
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 13:10 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:41 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:40 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-09 13:14 -0800
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-10 08:11 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-12 22:36 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-13 05:52 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 17:38 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:16 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-13 10:43 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 17:33 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:57 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 05:56 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:14 +0100
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:23 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-16 03:06 +0100
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-16 02:35 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 00:02 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 05:34 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 01:42 -0500
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 12:58 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-10 00:06 -0500
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 12:22 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:02 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 23:24 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-11 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-11 00:39 -0500
                                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:50 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-11-11 07:38 +0100
                                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-11 20:22 +0000
                                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-12 00:10 -0500
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-12 20:48 +0000
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:54 +0000
                                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:43 +0100
                                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:09 +0000
                                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-15 02:07 +0000
                                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-14 23:14 -0500
                                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:23 +0100
                                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-12 00:38 -0500
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-12 20:34 +0000
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:57 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:46 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:16 +0100
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:44 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 19:56 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:17 +0100
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-11-09 01:21 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:21 +0100
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-11-10 00:00 +0000
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-08 13:24 +0200
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 20:54 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 21:43 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 14:08 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:39 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-15 10:09 +0000
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:25 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 23:19 +0100
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 23:52 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-11 00:06 +0000
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 19:13 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 19:11 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:11 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-15 10:34 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:00 +0100
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-11-17 12:01 -0500
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 01:06 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:25 +0100
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:20 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 08:49 +0100
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 08:11 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 17:46 +0100
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-15 14:03 +0200
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 05:57 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-10 01:01 -0500
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 07:42 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 19:16 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-10 08:16 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 08:25 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:02 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 22:26 +0000

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#77574

Le 09-11-2025, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
> On 09 Nov 2025 14:08:59 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> Mostly almost all of my hidden files/directories are in my home
>> directory.
>
> The thought of all that clutter does not offend you?

Why? If there was hidden files everywhere, I would have to show them all
the time to know what's in my directories. As I know they are almost all
in my home directory, I know where I have to look when I'm looking for
something. And my prompt tell me when I am in a directory managed with
git, so I have nothing to do to know about them.

If every config file was in the .config repository, I wouldn't need it
to be hidden. But as there are a lot of files, I like them being hidden
to avoid masking what I'm looking for.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#77595

On 15 Nov 2025 10:09:16 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Le 09-11-2025, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
>>
>> On 09 Nov 2025 14:08:59 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>>> Mostly almost all of my hidden files/directories are in my home
>>> directory.
>>
>> The thought of all that clutter does not offend you?
> 
> Why?

Think of it as a potential privacy issue on a multiuser system: the 
existence of a dotfile with a characteristic name is a clue to others that 
you use a particular app that is known to create that dotfile.

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#77291

On 2025-11-08 22:43, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Nov 2025 13:24:42 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:
> 
>> I feel like I almost never use -a or -A. I don't need to list the
>> "hidden" dirs, I know what and where they are.
> 
> How many do you have in your home directory?
> 
>      ldo@theon:~> ls ~/ | wc -l
>      34
>      ldo@theon:~> ls -A ~/ | wc -l
>      304
>      ldo@theon:~> ls -d ~/.[!.]* | wc -l
>      270

cer@Telcontar:~> ls ~/ | wc -l
779
cer@Telcontar:~> ls -A ~/ | wc -l
1325
cer@Telcontar:~> ls -d ~/.[!.]* | wc -l
546
cer@Telcontar:~>


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77298

On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 23:19:57 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> cer@Telcontar:~> ls ~/ | wc -l
> 779
> cer@Telcontar:~> ls -A ~/ | wc -l
> 1325
> cer@Telcontar:~> ls -d ~/.[!.]* | wc -l
> 546
> cer@Telcontar:~>

You see now, why the XDG Base Directory spec exists?

<http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/>

Death to dotfile clutter!

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#77301

On 2025-11-10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 23:19:57 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> cer@Telcontar:~> ls ~/ | wc -l
>> 779
>> cer@Telcontar:~> ls -A ~/ | wc -l
>> 1325
>> cer@Telcontar:~> ls -d ~/.[!.]* | wc -l
>> 546
>> cer@Telcontar:~>
>
> You see now, why the XDG Base Directory spec exists?
>
> <http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/>
>
> Death to dotfile clutter!

As we have previously discussed when this topic last came up and you
last made that claim, this is really not a thing that somehow supports
or justifies the XDG Base Directory approach.

That's a backwards-incompatible approach, with incompatibility that
could have been avoided, and makes one wonder if it was even made that
way on purpose.

One thing is providing a solution to what some perceive as a problem, an
entirely different thing is to make the two approaches mutually
exclusive and leave out those who don't see the purported problem as a
problem.

This could have been an excellent "let's make a variable to say in which
directory should dotfiles be, in complying utilities", defaulting to
$HOME/.config/ on new systems, but still allowing those who prefer to
set it to $HOME. Alas, it isn't.

But yes, next you'll say how this solution can't be a problem because
you don't see it as a problem.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#77538

Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> But yes, next you'll say how this solution can't be a problem because 
> you don't see it as a problem.
> 

But of course, that's how Lawrence keeps his trolling up and his 
flamewars going.

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#77537

Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>> * Furthermore, cp and mv also take the “-i” option, which will ask 
>>   you to confirm if an item already exists under the new name.  
>>   Handy to guard against accidental overwrites.
> 
> It's funny, I remember a long ago some sysadmin spoke against these, 
> especially in aliases.  He felt people just start typing e.g.  \cp 
> always to bypass the alias and overwriting or deleting their 
> important files.  So, useless in his admin point of view.  Of course, 
> he was really just complaining he had to restore his users' files 
> back from backups.  I can't say I've bumbled with that very often, 
> despite having cp, mv and rm aliases with -i for over 30 years now 
> but I felt his point was kinda valid in a "don't do it, then" sort of 
> way.

He had a point, but he may not have expressed the "why" part well.

The default for cp/mv/rm is overwrite/remove.  One has to add -i to get 
the interactive "yes/no" confirm for overwrite/removal.

So if one blindly aliases, say, rm to 'rm -i'.  Then one gets 
into the habit of typing rm really_important_file* and having it 
prompt.

Then, one day while using a shell lacking those aliases (i.e., ssh to 
another machine that is not yet fully configured, new install of OS 
that is not yet finished being configured, shelled out from another 
program/editor and the shell is in non-interactive mode and so did not 
load the alias definitions, etc.) one is more likely to type rm 
really_important_file* and rather than being prompted as expected, all 
"really_important_file*"'s are simply gone.

My personal solution for that one, at least for 'rm', is that instead 
of aliasing rm to 'rm -i' I keep rm at it's default of "remove without 
asking".  I then alias 'del' to 'rm -i' (yes, I started out on DOS, so 
'del' is somewhat burned into my CLI mindset for 'delete file').  And I 
usually use my 'del' alias, unless I am sure at the outset I do in fact 
really want all these files gone with no prompts, then I use 'rm'.  But 
by using 'del' normally, if I'm using a server, or someone else's linux 
machine, or shelled out from another program without the aliases 
loaded, I get "command not found" if I try to "del file" instead of an 
automatic removal when I would otherwise expect to be prompted.

For mv/cp, as I'm on Linux with the GNU variants, if I'm worried about 
overwriting at the destination I just add --backup=numbered to keep the 
old file names around until I can verify I do in fact want them gone.

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#77547

On 14 Nov 2025 19:43:41 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

> I learned about "view". It's like "vi", but read-only.
> 
> So I thought it was a good idea to use this to view files.

I have Emacs always running, in server mode. This means I can use the 
“emacsclient” command to tell the running instance to open a file, from 
any terminal window.

To save typing, I define a shell alias:

    alias e='emacsclient -n'

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#77576

Le 14-11-2025, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a écrit :
> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>>> * Furthermore, cp and mv also take the “-i” option, which will ask 
>>>   you to confirm if an item already exists under the new name.  
>>>   Handy to guard against accidental overwrites.
>> 
>> It's funny, I remember a long ago some sysadmin spoke against these, 
>> especially in aliases.  He felt people just start typing e.g.  \cp 
>> always to bypass the alias and overwriting or deleting their 
>> important files.  So, useless in his admin point of view.  Of course, 
>> he was really just complaining he had to restore his users' files 
>> back from backups.  I can't say I've bumbled with that very often, 
>> despite having cp, mv and rm aliases with -i for over 30 years now 
>> but I felt his point was kinda valid in a "don't do it, then" sort of 
>> way.
>
> He had a point, but he may not have expressed the "why" part well.

There are more than one "why" part.

> The default for cp/mv/rm is overwrite/remove.  One has to add -i to get 
> the interactive "yes/no" confirm for overwrite/removal.

Yes.

> So if one blindly aliases, say, rm to 'rm -i'.  Then one gets 
> into the habit of typing rm really_important_file* and having it 
> prompt.
>
> Then, one day while using a shell lacking those aliases (i.e., ssh to 
> another machine that is not yet fully configured, new install of OS 
> that is not yet finished being configured, shelled out from another 
> program/editor and the shell is in non-interactive mode and so did not 
> load the alias definitions, etc.) one is more likely to type rm 
> really_important_file* and rather than being prompted as expected, all 
> "really_important_file*"'s are simply gone.

That's one valid point. Another one is that if you try to remove
hundreds or thousands of files, I don't believe anyone would look
carefully at each one of them. The confirmation time would be a very bad
useless experience: it would take ages to do something without any
increased security. Another valid point is if you are using it in a
shell script running in a cron job. Well good luck with that.

And I'm pretty sure you can find more valid reasons to avoid it by
default.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#77596

On 15 Nov 2025 10:34:40 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Another one is that if you try to remove hundreds or thousands of
> files, I don't believe anyone would look carefully at each one of
> them. The confirmation time would be a very bad useless experience:
> it would take ages to do something without any increased security.

The term for that is “confirmation fatigue”. Familiar to GUI users who 
have seen one too many of those “Are you sure?” dialogs that keep popping 
up.

> Another valid point is if you are using it in a shell script running
> in a cron job. Well good luck with that.

I used to use VMS, back in the day. That had the concept of version 
numbers in files. E.g. you could have files with names like

    FRED.DAT;1
    FRED.DAT;2
    FRED.DAT;3

all existing within the same directory at the same time. Some users 
naïvely relied on this as a backup feature, and then were rudely 
disillusioned the first time they (or someone else) ran a PURGE command on 
that directory.

But anyway, version numbers were optional in most commands; when 
specifying an input file, omitting the version number meant that the 
highest-numbered version was automatically chosen. So for example

    TYPE FRED.DAT

would show you the contents of the highest-numbered version. So really, 
you could simply ignore the whole version-numbering system for most of 
your working day.

True for most commands, but not DELETE. For safety, that wanted to see at 
least the trailing semicolon, even if there was no actual number after it. 
E.g.

    DELETE FRED.DAT

would fail with a “version number required” error, while

    DELETE FRED.DAT;

would delete the newest version.

This special case for the DELETE command was, I thought, a much better 
option than requiring confirmation. It was a subtle difference -- one that 
required a slightly different path through your muscle memory for this one 
command. Not overtly intrusive, but hopefully enough to prevent you from 
mistaking the dangerous command for an innocuous one ...

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#77684

On 2025-11-15 23:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On 15 Nov 2025 10:34:40 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> 
>> Another one is that if you try to remove hundreds or thousands of
>> files, I don't believe anyone would look carefully at each one of
>> them. The confirmation time would be a very bad useless experience:
>> it would take ages to do something without any increased security.
> 
> The term for that is “confirmation fatigue”. Familiar to GUI users who
> have seen one too many of those “Are you sure?” dialogs that keep popping
> up.
> 
>> Another valid point is if you are using it in a shell script running
>> in a cron job. Well good luck with that.
> 
> I used to use VMS, back in the day. That had the concept of version
> numbers in files. E.g. you could have files with names like
> 
>      FRED.DAT;1
>      FRED.DAT;2
>      FRED.DAT;3

I remember that.

A short time after knowing this I bought my first computer, an Amstrad 
1512 DD, and I was sad to learn that Dos did not have this feature.


> all existing within the same directory at the same time. Some users
> naïvely relied on this as a backup feature, and then were rudely
> disillusioned the first time they (or someone else) ran a PURGE command on
> that directory.

The uni lab where I was learning Pascal using their Vax had limited 
versions to maybe two or three. At least for us students.


> But anyway, version numbers were optional in most commands; when
> specifying an input file, omitting the version number meant that the
> highest-numbered version was automatically chosen. So for example
> 
>      TYPE FRED.DAT
> 
> would show you the contents of the highest-numbered version. So really,
> you could simply ignore the whole version-numbering system for most of
> your working day.
> 
> True for most commands, but not DELETE. For safety, that wanted to see at
> least the trailing semicolon, even if there was no actual number after it.
> E.g.
> 
>      DELETE FRED.DAT
> 
> would fail with a “version number required” error, while
> 
>      DELETE FRED.DAT;
> 
> would delete the newest version.

Ah, I don't remember this :-)

> 
> This special case for the DELETE command was, I thought, a much better
> option than requiring confirmation. It was a subtle difference -- one that
> required a slightly different path through your muscle memory for this one
> command. Not overtly intrusive, but hopefully enough to prevent you from
> mistaking the dangerous command for an innocuous one ...


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77688

Carlos E.R. wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

> On 2025-11-15 23:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On 15 Nov 2025 10:34:40 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> 
>>> Another one is that if you try to remove hundreds or thousands of
>>> files, I don't believe anyone would look carefully at each one of
>>> them. The confirmation time would be a very bad useless experience:
>>> it would take ages to do something without any increased security.
>> 
>> The term for that is “confirmation fatigue”. Familiar to GUI users who
>> have seen one too many of those “Are you sure?” dialogs that keep popping
>> up.
>> 
>>> Another valid point is if you are using it in a shell script running
>>> in a cron job. Well good luck with that.
>> 
>> I used to use VMS, back in the day. That had the concept of version
>> numbers in files. E.g. you could have files with names like
>> 
>>      FRED.DAT;1
>>      FRED.DAT;2
>>      FRED.DAT;3
>
> I remember that.
>
> A short time after knowing this I bought my first computer, an Amstrad 
> 1512 DD, and I was sad to learn that Dos did not have this feature.
>
> <snip>

The same was true on RSX-11 iirc.

-- 
The American nation in the sixth ward is a fine people; they love the
eagle -- on the back of a dollar.
		-- Finlay Peter Dunne

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#77696

On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 13:00:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> The uni lab where I was learning Pascal using their Vax had limited
> versions to maybe two or three. At least for us students.

That’s a per-directory setting that you can change. The default limit for 
new users was set to 3, just to put a limit on how much clutter (and disk 
space) they would be using without realizing it.

> A short time after knowing this I bought my first computer, an
> Amstrad 1512 DD, and I was sad to learn that Dos did not have this
> feature.

The original “Macintosh File System” volume format (that was used on the 
single-sided 400K floppies that didn’t support hierarchical directories) 
had a one-byte field in each file entry for a “version number”, but this 
was always set to zero. I never got around to trying to see if setting it 
nonzero did anything, probably because this field went away pretty soon 
with HFS (“Hierarchical File System”) when that was introduced with 
Apple’s first hard-drive product for the Mac.

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#77702

On 2025-11-18 02:06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 13:00:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> The uni lab where I was learning Pascal using their Vax had limited
>> versions to maybe two or three. At least for us students.
> 
> That’s a per-directory setting that you can change. The default limit for
> new users was set to 3, just to put a limit on how much clutter (and disk
> space) they would be using without realizing it.

We did not know that it was possible to change, so we never tried. I 
seem to recall that we saw our limit number reduced one day.

> 
>> A short time after knowing this I bought my first computer, an
>> Amstrad 1512 DD, and I was sad to learn that Dos did not have this
>> feature.
> 
> The original “Macintosh File System” volume format (that was used on the
> single-sided 400K floppies that didn’t support hierarchical directories)
> had a one-byte field in each file entry for a “version number”, but this
> was always set to zero. I never got around to trying to see if setting it
> nonzero did anything, probably because this field went away pretty soon
> with HFS (“Hierarchical File System”) when that was introduced with
> Apple’s first hard-drive product for the Mac.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77710

On Tue, 18 Nov 2025 07:25:35 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2025-11-18 02:06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 13:00:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> 
>>> The uni lab where I was learning Pascal using their Vax had limited
>>> versions to maybe two or three. At least for us students.
>> 
>> That’s a per-directory setting that you can change. The default limit
>> for new users was set to 3, just to put a limit on how much clutter
>> (and disk space) they would be using without realizing it.
> 
> We did not know that it was possible to change, so we never tried. I
> seem to recall that we saw our limit number reduced one day.

The “SET DIRECTORY/VERSION_LIMIT” command set the version limit for all 
files in a directory. There was also “SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT” to set it on 
a per-file basis.

All this was explained somewhere in the HELP command, if you snooped 
around enough. ;)

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#77713

On 2025-11-18 08:20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2025 07:25:35 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-11-18 02:06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 13:00:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> The uni lab where I was learning Pascal using their Vax had limited
>>>> versions to maybe two or three. At least for us students.
>>>
>>> That’s a per-directory setting that you can change. The default limit
>>> for new users was set to 3, just to put a limit on how much clutter
>>> (and disk space) they would be using without realizing it.
>>
>> We did not know that it was possible to change, so we never tried. I
>> seem to recall that we saw our limit number reduced one day.
> 
> The “SET DIRECTORY/VERSION_LIMIT” command set the version limit for all
> files in a directory. There was also “SET FILE/VERSION_LIMIT” to set it on
> a per-file basis.
> 
> All this was explained somewhere in the HELP command, if you snooped
> around enough. ;)

At some point, the VAX became very slow, maybe 10 seconds before the 
cursor moved. Imagine doing a compile, getting a trivial error, open the 
editor, count the lines and columns to get to the place, and doing the 
edit blind. Then wait for the machine to do it.

No time to explore.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77716

On Tue, 18 Nov 2025 08:49:31 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> At some point, the VAX became very slow, maybe 10 seconds before the
> cursor moved. Imagine doing a compile, getting a trivial error, open the
> editor, count the lines and columns to get to the place, and doing the
> edit blind. Then wait for the machine to do it.
> 
> No time to explore.

Were you able to get access to terminals after hours? Things would be much 
quieter then, when all the “normal” students were asleep, or away 
partying, or something ;). Great time for the geeks to get a lot of work 
done.

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#77723

On 2025-11-18 09:11, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2025 08:49:31 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> At some point, the VAX became very slow, maybe 10 seconds before the
>> cursor moved. Imagine doing a compile, getting a trivial error, open the
>> editor, count the lines and columns to get to the place, and doing the
>> edit blind. Then wait for the machine to do it.
>>
>> No time to explore.
> 
> Were you able to get access to terminals after hours? Things would be much
> quieter then, when all the “normal” students were asleep, or away
> partying, or something ;). Great time for the geeks to get a lot of work
> done.

Not me, I don't know about others. You would need to know the 
appropriate people.

No, what I did is buy a computer. Or rather, ask my parents for one :-)

An Amstrad PC 1512 DD.

The student association distributed copies of turbo pascal 2, er, cough, 
gratis. I did our team (we worked in teams of three to a single 
terminal) program (a recursive solution of the 4 colour map) in TP, and 
then asked for help to transfer the source code from a disquete to the 
VAX. Then find and kill the turbo enhancements.

In my computer one of the map solutions took 15 seconds, perhaps. The 
vax, which was very slow to respond to the keyboard, solved it in under 
a second.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77578

Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> He had a point, but he may not have expressed the "why" part well.
>
> The default for cp/mv/rm is overwrite/remove.  One has to add -i to get 
> the interactive "yes/no" confirm for overwrite/removal.
>
> So if one blindly aliases, say, rm to 'rm -i'.  Then one gets 
> into the habit of typing rm really_important_file* and having it 
> prompt.

Come to think of it, he may have expressed that "why" part too. At least
that seems vaguely familiar but as I said it was long ago. At a guess,
the decade before last so 20 years or so.

Still, from me that "why" gets a shrug, an eye roll and a "don't do it,
then".

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#77231

On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 21:31:41 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

> * rm, cp and mv all take the “-v” option so they tell you what they’ve
>   done after they’ve done it. This can be reassuring to those feeling
>   a little nervous about the power of these commands.

Also, he didn’t mention rmdir. This is the best command for safely 
removing directories, because it won’t remove a nonempty directory. Also 
it won’t delete files, if you pass the name of one instead of a directory.

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