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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 417 — 26 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:26 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-23 14:49 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bfolv$1rjgk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94618 |
On 23/10/2026 14:28, c186282 wrote: > On 10/23/26 08:11, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-10-23 13:08, c186282 wrote: >>> On 10/22/26 07:48, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> On 2026-10-22 13:18, c186282 wrote: >>>>> On 10/22/26 06:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>>>> On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>>>>>>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>>>>>>> followed >>>>>>>> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took >>>>>>>> Spanish. >>>>>>>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it >>>>>>> was fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in >>>>>>> French >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This >>>>>> was started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the >>>>>> Francoist, which again were isolationist. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". >>>>> >>>>> Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass >>>>> quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA >>>>> if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish. >>>>> >>>> >>>> No, I'm not forgetting, I'm simply talking about the claim that in >>>> Europe Spanish was not considered important, some decades ago. >>> >>> Since its empire went to hell Spain really hasn't >>> been an 'important player' in Europe or elsewhere. >>> Franco got some attention, but not much. >>> >>> There's *something* about Spanish economics - and >>> seems true in S.America as well - that prevents >>> 'general success'. The old patron/peon system and >>> the thinking it creates may be an important factor. >> >> Well, currently Spanish is one of the official languages in the EU. >> And there is an important trading agreement between the EU and the >> americas, which as it has been contested I don't know if it is active >> now or not. > > > Spain isn't *nothing* ... but it's not a France or Germany. > Industry/money, it always seems behind the proverbial curve. > You don't need to work so hard to stay warm in Club Med. All S. Europeans take life a bit easier -- It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Mark Twain
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 15:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bd8au$u5du$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94540 |
On 22/10/2026 12:18, c186282 wrote: > On 10/22/26 06:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >>> >>> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. >> >> >> That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was >> started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, >> which again were isolationist. >> >> It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > > Umm ... you're forgetting south and central America - mass > quantities of Spanish speakers (except Brazil). In the USA > if you want a 2nd language you learn Spanish. Last time I looked south and central America were not part of Europe. Even KingDonald hasnt gone that dumb -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki"
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 15:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11bd86o$u5du$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94536 |
On 22/10/2026 11:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>> followed >>> by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids took Spanish. >>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>> >> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >> >> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. > > > That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was > started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which > again were isolationist. > > It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > It is a great shame, Spanish and Italian are quite beautiful languages Germanics are the ugly ones. Dutch Flemish, German -- Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is that they are dead. Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 17:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njv0qmFiqckU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94536 |
On Thu, 22 Oct 2026 12:35:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>> followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids >>> took Spanish. >>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>> >> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >> >> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. > > > That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was > started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which > again were isolationist. > > It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". The situation is different in the western hemisphere. Other than the US, Canada, and Brazil most of the people speak some flavor of Spanish. Even in the US many hable Espano, although it's regional. I was amused when the library had a sign on the information desk 'preguntas'.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-22 20:04 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <arvpqmxagr.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #94568 |
On 2026-10-22 19:52, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 22 Oct 2026 12:35:23 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> On 2026-10-21 11:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 20/10/2026 19:15, rbowman wrote: >>>> In high school the 'college entrance' kids took 2 years of Latin >>>> followed by 2 years of French or German. The business and shop kids >>>> took Spanish. >>>> Which would have been more useful in my later life? >>>> >>> Honestly cant say. I did Latin and French. I liked Latin but it was >>> fairly useless. I can just about make myself understood in French >>> >>> Spanish was not considered important here in Europe. >> >> >> That's not surprising. Spain was isolationist for centuries. This was >> started a reversion by the II R which was killed by the Francoist, which >> again were isolationist. >> >> It was the democratic regime of 1976 which opened up "finally". > > The situation is different in the western hemisphere. Other than the US, > Canada, and Brazil most of the people speak some flavor of Spanish. Even > in the US many hable Espano, although it's regional. I was amused when the > library had a sign on the information desk 'preguntas'. Yes, I know that the situation was and is different in the american continent. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <piqcqmxlgi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93868 |
On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>> is very little science in engineering. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >> >> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >> > That is of course bollocks > No engineer would have written that > > A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five > bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) > >> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using scientific principles" > > Again its bollocks. > > "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, > engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges > using *whatever systems work* in the context. > > Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill for > grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its design Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b27g5$11pis$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94045 |
On 17/10/2026 19:15, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-16 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 16/10/2026 13:15, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: >>> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>>> Engineering is not applied science. Only a CS would think it was There >>>> is very little science in engineering. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering: >>> >>> "Engineering is the practice of systematically applying natural science >>> and mathematics to design and improve systems." >>> >> That is of course bollocks >> No engineer would have written that >> >> A better definition is 'an engineer is wsomeone who can make for five >> bob (£0.25) what any damn fool can make for a quid (£1) >> >>> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/engineering >>> >>> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >>> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or >>> bridges >>> using scientific principles" >> >> Again its bollocks. >> >> "the work of an engineer (= a person who designs or builds machines, >> engines, electrical systems, or large structures such as roads or bridges >> using *whatever systems work* in the context. >> >> Early engineers were carpenters,masons and blacksmiths. A windmill >> for grinding corn is a machine, but there is no science used in its >> design > > Yes, there is. You have to know how big to make the sails, and what gear > reduction ratio you need, and how big stones you need. > That is called 'experience' and is what you learnt as a midshipman > It may be know how from previous failed and working attempts. > Of course it is. An experience sailor could look at a ship and say 'that's too much sail for this wind' and if he didnt have a naval crew, but merely a commercial one, he'd take in a few reefs. If you have the crew, you can do that pretty much right up to the point the ship is in danger of keeling over You have been too exposed to modern techno myth that it's all science and maths. It isn't, and the further back you go the less it was, right back to using a branch to roll over a rock, or chipping a stone to make an axe. Some tribes still existing do not have words for number at all. One. Many? Others do not have words for distance. When all you can see is the rain forest 5 feet away, there isn't much call for it. Technology and the art of making it is the history of thousands of years of trial and error, with the 'right way' a closely guarded secret held by closed guilds. The modern affectation that it's 'applied science' is just stupid people saying stupid things, trying to elevate science above its correct position -- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H.L.Mencken
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 16:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b5bmv$25961$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93857 |
On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 12:54:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> ABS (soon: inertial ABS and other ADAS) is mandatory in pretty much all >>> first world countries, and I'm sure there was a few PhDs attached to >>> the project at Bosch, from R&D to market. >>> >> WERE a few phDs. > > You're right to correct my grammar. > English being my third language I sometimes get sloppy... --------------------------------------------------^^^^^^ I understand it's the non-AI kind of slop, but you may still want to reword that :-P -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18df0a68a1e460b8$2716$2693458$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #93819 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:55:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > > In fact almost all design is done by draughtsmen > > Or technicians. > > I learnt this at my first company - a military and aerospace company. > Boffins were very thin on the ground. What there were, were enormous > quantities of low paid technicians, who understood enough to take > something someone else had designed, often from another project, and > fiddle with it till it met the spec. > That's describes the "99+ percent" that was referred to in an earlier post. But to get to Mars, or back to the moon, will require the "1- percent." Technological progress cannot be sustained by mere technicians or draftsman.
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| From | "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87ecdq41bl.fsf@solcaium.us> |
| In reply to | #93801 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: > On 10/16/26 00:53, Peyton wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: >> >>> On 10/15/26 23:26, Leroy H wrote: >>>> It is amazing how knowledge of basic CS is absent in most >>>> programmers, both professional and amateur alike. While >>>> "vibe coding" is all the rage, a silent disaster is also >>>> creeping. >>> >>> 99+ percent of us got by just fine without >>> any "computer science" crapola. >>> >>> CS is all math/stats. Has almost nothing to >>> do with the real-world these days. Maybe in >>> the 1940s ....... >>> >>> Might, MAYBE, produce a useful idea, every, >>> very, once in awhile. >>> >> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C# >> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python >> script. > > Worrisome. > > However do note that MOST of the Python functions > are writ in 'C'. > >> Not having basic CS fundamentals does have real implications in >> everyday software. > > Not so much. > When you don't know the basics you'll make some bone headed decisions that'll impact efficiency and/or correctness. Hopefully the AI tool being used will catch it. But from my experience it doesn't do it all the time and will even encourage bad practices. > Yer guy didn't need a CS degree - just someone > to TELL him the diff between compiled and > interpreted. That's all. > I agree. That is the very issue. I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is basic CS. --
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11askn8$33cuk$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93804 |
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: > I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is > basic CS. Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might think is even more basic CS. After all, where does “hardware” end and “software” begin? On which side of the line do you place things like “firmware” (note the name) and “microcode”? The “P” in “PLA” stands for “programmable”; does that mean the gate connections are still “hardware”, or not?
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| From | "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 08:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87fqy5d55d.fsf@solcaium.us> |
| In reply to | #93809 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: > >> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is >> basic CS. > > Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might > think is even more basic CS. > Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty insignificant. --
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11atmpr$3g7mv$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93880 |
On 16/10/2026 16:41, Peyton wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: >> >>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted is >>> basic CS. >> >> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >> think is even more basic CS. >> > Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty insignificant. > > All CISC chips use interpreters to interpret 'machine code' Even a basic CPU like a 6502 is a sort of 'interpreter' As usual the deeper you go, the less the simple stories hold true -- If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. Joseph Goebbels
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 21:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11au6gp$3m5co$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93880 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 08:41:34 -0700, Peyton wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: >> >>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted >>> is basic CS. >> >> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >> think is even more basic CS. >> > Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty > insignificant. Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? How did that come about? Is your browser running a JavaScript compiler, or a JavaScript interpreter? It’s really kind of a mixture of both, isn’t it?
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| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18df272280514571$11044$2836843$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #93935 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> > Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too > slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have > entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the > desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? > Apparently it is not fast enough as we now have WebAssembly: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ph7DJ6Xy7c>
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <8i2dqmxou3.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #93950 |
On 2026-10-17 01:43, Leroy H wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >>> >> Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too >> slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have >> entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the >> desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? >> > > Apparently it is not fast enough as we now have WebAssembly: > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ph7DJ6Xy7c> > Video unavailable. The uploader has not made this video available in your country -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <D1qdnXfkH9BRF0n3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94081 |
On 10/17/26 16:31, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-10-17 01:43, Leroy H wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >>>> >>> Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too >>> slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have >>> entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the >>> desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? >>> >> >> Apparently it is not fast enough as we now have WebAssembly: >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ph7DJ6Xy7c> >> > > Video unavailable. > The uploader has not made this video available in your country Kind of my opinion on ANY JS required to display the basics - esp on world News sites. No screen - SKIP THEM and MOVE ON to alt sources. Their articles do not get seen, their advertisers do not get seen. FUCK them !
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <njga01Fit4rU34@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93935 |
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 21:55:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > How did that come about? Is your browser running a JavaScript compiler, > or a JavaScript interpreter? It’s really kind of a mixture of both, > isn’t it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_(JavaScript_engine)
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b25t1$10nek$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93935 |
On 2026-10-16, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 08:41:34 -0700, Peyton wrote: > >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >> >>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:16:46 -0700, Peyton wrote: >>> >>>> I'd argue knowing the difference between compiled and interpreted >>>> is basic CS. >>> >>> Knowing that the difference is even less significant than you might >>> think is even more basic CS. >>> >> Gee, I guess saving both hours of time and money is pretty >> insignificant. > > Remember when JavaScript running in the browser was considered too > slow for anything involving advanced interactivity? Yet now we have > entire apps, as complex as anything you might run stand-alone on the > desktop, implemented entirely in the browser? > > How did that come about? Is your browser running a JavaScript > compiler, or a JavaScript interpreter? It’s really kind of a mixture > of both, isn’t it? It mainly happened through high-end devices being available to many webdevs, and with concerns about portability and accessibility being easier to disregard. The code is still slow and heavy, some things may have become more efficient, but that's arguably largely offset by many more additions to what's usually done in these webapps. But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform terribly (see e.g. CPython). -- Nuno Silva
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 11:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b28nt$11pis$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94128 |
On 18/10/2026 11:09, Nuno Silva wrote: > But yeah, the distinction between "compiled" and "interpreted" doesn't > imply anything about performance, and it's completely possible for a > language implementation with some sort of compilation to perform > terribly (see e.g. CPython). Apocryphally Gary Kildall was called upon to fix some industrial assembler while on a vacation job. He rewrite in Fortran, It ran ten times faster. faster instructions are no substitute for shitty algorithms -- I would rather have questions that cannot be answered... ...than to have answers that cannot be questioned Richard Feynman
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