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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #90165 > unrolled thread

/dev/tcp

Started byEli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
First post2026-08-19 21:20 +0000
Last post2026-08-29 18:15 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 590 — 29 participants

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Contents

  /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-19 21:20 +0000
    Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:53 +0100
    Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:42 +0000
      Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 00:59 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 03:59 +0000
          Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-20 10:10 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:15 +0000
            Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 23:30 +0000
              Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 01:18 +0100
              Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 09:52 +0200
                Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 08:12 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 11:16 +0200
                    Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:57 +0000
                      Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-22 06:17 +0200
                        Re: /dev/tcp David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-30 17:56 +0100
                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 21:50 -0400
                Re: /dev/tcp Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-08-24 17:42 +0300
                  Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 23:53 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:27 -0400
              Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 00:56 +0000
                Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-23 04:01 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 03:37 -0400
                    Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:50 +0200
                      Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 22:28 +0000
                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:35 +0200
                          Overwriting with random data (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:10 +0100
                            Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:34 +0200
                              Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:57 +0100
                                Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 22:26 +0200
                                  Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:39 -0400
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 08:45 +0100
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:39 -0400
                                        Re: Overwriting with random data Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-26 18:08 +0000
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:49 +0000
                                        Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 00:59 -0400
                                          Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:19 +0100
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:36 +0200
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 15:19 +0100
                                        Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 03:33 -0400
                                          Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:18 +0100
                                            Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 17:34 +0000
                                              Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 01:52 -0400
                                                Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-27 12:11 +0100
                                                  Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 01:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 22:16 -0400
                                                    Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 08:32 +0100
                                                      Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 03:34 -0400
                                                        Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-28 11:37 +0100
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:44 +0100
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-28 13:25 +0100
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 15:27 +0100
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 19:30 +0000
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 00:59 -0400
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 01:57 -0400
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 20:42 +0000
                                                        Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:33 +0100
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 19:50 +0000
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:11 +0100
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-29 05:25 +0000
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:12 -0400
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:15 +0100
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 21:56 -0400
                                                    Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:29 +0100
                                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-28 13:43 +0100
                                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 20:15 +0000
                                                        Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-28 21:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:09 -0400
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-29 08:59 +0100
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 09:25 +0000
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-29 11:19 +0100
                                                                Re: Overwriting with random data rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 20:45 +0000
                                                                Re: Overwriting with random data Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:38 +0000
                                                                Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-09-02 19:33 +0000
                                                                  Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-09-02 20:21 +0000
                                                                    Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-02 22:22 -0400
                                                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-09-03 02:53 +0000
                                                                        Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-02 23:28 -0400
                                                                      Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-03 11:51 +0100
                                                                  Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-02 23:09 -0400
                                                                    Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-03 11:52 +0100
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-29 15:10 +0000
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-08-30 08:58 +0100
                                                                Re: Overwriting with random data Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-30 23:45 +0000
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 21:47 -0400
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 13:56 +0100
                                                          Re: Overwriting with random data Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 14:17 +0000
                                                            Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-29 16:02 +0000
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:12 +0200
                                                                Re: Overwriting with random data Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-08-29 21:04 +0000
                                                              Re: Overwriting with random data Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-09-05 09:32 +0000
                                                                Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 13:49 +0100
                                                                  Re: Overwriting with random data Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-09-20 15:54 +0200
                                          Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:58 +0000
                                            Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:23 +0100
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:53 +0000
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:12 +0100
                                      Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 00:09 -0400
                                        Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 08:52 +0100
                                          Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 01:02 +0000
                                    Re: Overwriting with random data Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-28 00:48 +0000
                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:37 -0400
                      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:31 -0400
                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:45 +0200
                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:52 +0100
                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:50 +0100
    Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 13:50 +0000
      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-20 13:02 -0400
        Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 18:26 +0000
          Re: /dev/tcp Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:48 +0000
            Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:44 +0000
              Re: /dev/tcp Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-29 23:05 +0000
                Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-30 00:58 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-30 04:12 +0000
                  Re: /dev/tcp Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-30 09:25 +0000
                    Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-30 11:00 +0100
                    Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-30 23:54 +0000
                    Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-31 09:34 +0100
                      Re: /dev/tcp Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-09-05 09:08 +0000
                        Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 10:25 +0100
                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 19:19 +0100
                            Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-05 22:38 +0000
                              Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-05 21:40 -0400
                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-06 09:16 +0100
                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-05 21:38 -0400
                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-06 09:19 +0100
                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-06 18:54 +0000
                                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-06 23:27 -0400
                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 11:54 +0100
                                Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-07 03:52 +0000
                                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-07 00:12 -0400
                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 12:00 +0100
                                      Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-07 19:34 +0000
                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 22:23 +0100
                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 05:45 +0000
                                        Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-07 22:24 +0100
                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 05:48 +0000
                                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-08 01:52 -0400
                                              Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-08 08:46 +0100
                                                [OT] /dev/economy (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 10:28 +0100
                                                  Re: [OT] /dev/economy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 13:43 +0100
                                                  Re: [OT] /dev/economy (was: Re: /dev/tcp) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 18:32 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] /dev/economy (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-09-08 20:38 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] /dev/economy Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:48 +0100
                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 18:41 +0000
                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:52 +0100
                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 01:34 +0000
                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:28 +0100
                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:26 +0100
                                                      Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 18:22 +0000
                                                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:37 -0400
                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 04:46 +0000
                                                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-10 02:19 -0400
                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 18:25 +0000
                                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 03:09 -0400
                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:20 +0100
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:36 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 23:05 -0400
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 07:14 +0000
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 03:49 -0400
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 21:51 +0000
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 20:59 -0400
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 04:33 +0000
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-14 01:26 -0400
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:49 +0100
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 17:46 +0000
                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 19:07 +0100
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 00:33 +0000
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:50 +0100
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:56 +0100
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 23:31 -0400
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:43 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:05 +0200
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 17:40 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:29 +0000
                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:21 +0000
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 02:37 -0400
                                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:31 +0100
                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 18:38 +0000
                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 00:26 +0100
                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 04:10 +0000
                                                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 01:00 -0400
                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 00:55 -0400
                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:32 +0100
                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 18:44 +0000
                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 21:05 +0100
                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 01:35 +0000
                                                      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 03:47 -0400
                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 18:18 +0000
                                                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:22 -0400
                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 04:44 +0000
                                                              Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-10 02:13 -0400
                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:26 +0100
                                                            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-10 19:07 +0200
                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-10 18:35 +0000
                                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 03:24 -0400
                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:27 +0100
                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:07 +0000
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 02:36 -0400
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:26 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 23:01 -0400
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:23 +0100
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:22 +0000
                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 19:37 +0100
                                                                Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-10 20:58 +0200
                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 00:25 +0100
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 11:32 +0200
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:51 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 12:03 +0200
                                                                          [OT] Middle East (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 00:43 +0100
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 02:09 -0400
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:26 +0100
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 11:45 +0100
                                                                                [OT] Middle East (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:56 +0100
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:37 +0100
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Middle East rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 19:33 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 21:01 +0100
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Middle East "Rinaldi J. Montessi" <rinaldij@alien.free> - 2026-09-13 17:30 -0500
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Middle East c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 22:05 -0400
                                                                                          Re: [OT] Middle East rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 03:19 +0000
                                                                                            Re: [OT] Middle East c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 23:35 -0400
                                                                                            Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:52 +0100
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Middle East rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 02:37 +0000
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:47 +0100
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:09 +0200
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 17:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:07 +0200
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 17:45 +0100
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:13 +0100
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:05 +0000
                                                                  [OT] Middle East (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:11 +0100
                                                                      Re: [OT] Middle East Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:40 +0100
                                                                        Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:58 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Middle East "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-13 14:08 +0200
                                                                      Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 21:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Middle East c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 20:48 -0400
                                                                      Re: [OT] Middle East Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:45 +0100
                                                                      Re: [OT] Middle East The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:59 +0100
                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 04:12 +0000
                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:16 +0100
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-11 19:13 +0000
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:27 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-12 19:42 +0000
                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 00:22 -0400
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-13 07:51 +0100
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 07:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:31 +0100
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-13 09:45 +0100
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 03:02 -0400
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-13 08:39 +0100
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 03:50 -0400
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 10:13 +0100
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:51 +0100
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:44 +0100
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-13 21:39 +0000
                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:31 +0100
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-13 19:32 -0400
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:54 +0100
                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:20 +0100
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 11:06 +0100
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 19:56 +0100
                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 20:07 +0100
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 23:01 +0100
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 00:30 +0000
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:42 +0100
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 09:26 +0200
                                                                                              [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 10:18 +0100
                                                                                                Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 20:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:51 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 00:56 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 07:25 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:13 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:09 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 00:52 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 07:26 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:17 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: [OT] "Democracy" Exports of the United States The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:24 +0100
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 16:34 +0100
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 18:27 +0000
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 18:21 +0000
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 20:32 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 02:17 +0000
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 18:30 +0100
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 21:35 +0100
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:59 +0100
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-16 08:20 +0100
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:33 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 18:16 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 19:55 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 01:10 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-16 23:19 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:44 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 20:19 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-17 23:27 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:54 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-18 01:14 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:29 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-18 08:29 -0600
                                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:27 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 20:07 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-19 11:24 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-19 10:53 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-19 13:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-19 19:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-20 10:29 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-19 22:01 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-19 23:41 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-20 10:34 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-20 14:07 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-20 17:40 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-20 21:03 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 13:21 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 13:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp Chris Abraham <chris@gerriscorp.com> - 2026-09-21 13:16 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 23:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-22 03:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-22 06:49 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-21 19:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 23:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-21 23:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-22 04:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-22 06:55 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-22 03:51 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-21 13:13 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-20 10:22 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 08:05 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:46 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:31 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:16 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:48 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 12:11 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:52 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:16 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:12 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-17 07:16 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 06:37 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:43 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:32 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-17 21:51 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:15 +0100
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:25 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:35 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 03:23 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-18 01:24 -0400
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:58 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:55 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-17 22:19 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-17 21:58 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:25 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 00:57 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 03:02 +0000
                                                                                                        [OT] Washington Treaty of 1949 (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 10:59 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 10:02 +0100
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 18:18 +0000
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-15 18:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 21:21 +0200
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 02:34 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-16 04:31 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 06:36 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-16 08:30 +0100
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 02:29 +0000
                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 17:43 +0000
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 19:05 +0100
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 19:50 +0100
                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 20:00 +0100
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-09-14 23:05 +0100
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 00:18 +0000
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-15 01:52 -0400
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:48 +0100
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 17:30 +0000
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-16 00:37 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 06:33 +0000
                                                                                                    [OT] /dev/middle-east (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:37 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] /dev/middle-east The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:45 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:26 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:38 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:33 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:58 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-17 23:25 -0400
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-15 18:49 +0000
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:57 +0100
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:45 +0100
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-14 21:03 -0400
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:58 +0100
                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-14 23:56 +0000
                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 02:00 +0100
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-15 02:14 -0400
                                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-14 20:59 -0400
                                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-15 17:48 +0000
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:43 +0100
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 01:56 +0000
                                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-15 21:28 +0200
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:04 +0100
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:32 +0000
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 00:58 +0100
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 01:33 +0000
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:23 +0100
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 09:01 +0200
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:29 +0100
                                                                                          Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 01:20 +0000
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 09:03 +0200
                                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:21 +0100
                                                                                              Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-16 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:38 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-17 17:44 +0000
                                                                                            [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 11:31 +0100
                                                                                              Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-16 20:35 +0200
                                                                                                Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 02:24 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 08:09 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 10:21 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:53 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:31 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:20 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:58 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:48 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:42 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 19:30 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:18 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:57 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:41 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:33 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 19:52 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:30 +0100
                                                                                                Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:26 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 11:47 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 13:52 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-17 20:16 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:54 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-18 02:45 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: [OT] Are Ceuta and Melilla actually part of the Schengen Area? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 08:37 +0100
                                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-13 09:03 +0100
                                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 23:07 -0400
                                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:40 +0100
                                                                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-12 23:06 -0400
                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:29 +0100
                                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-09 18:20 +0000
                                                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:26 -0400
                                                            Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:29 +0100
                                                              Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-11 00:58 -0400
                                                                Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-11 10:19 +0100
                                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:27 +0100
                                                  Re: /dev/tcp Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-09 04:25 +0000
                                                Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 00:43 -0400
                                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-09 09:31 +0100
                                                    Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-09 23:12 -0400
                                                      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-10 11:32 +0100
                                          Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:31 +0100
                                      Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-07 22:20 -0400
                                        Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-08 05:05 +0000
                                          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-08 01:51 -0400
                                        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-08 09:34 +0100
                                  Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 11:59 +0100
                                    Re: /dev/tcp rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-09-07 19:18 +0000
                        Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-09-05 21:35 -0400
                  Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-30 13:06 +0100
        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:54 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:57 -0400
            Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-22 21:47 +0200
              The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-22 23:50 +0000
                Re: The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 04:28 -0400
                Re: The hammer is best Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 10:14 +0100
                  Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:55 +0200
                    Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:16 +0100
                      Re: The hammer is best Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-23 21:20 +0200
                        Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:18 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:26 +0100
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:06 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:18 +0100
                              Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 00:51 -0400
                      Re: The hammer is best Joed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid> - 2026-08-23 19:42 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 23:56 +0000
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:25 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 01:14 +0000
                        Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:50 +0200
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:56 -0400
                      Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:53 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 23:34 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 04:08 +0000
                              Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:29 +0200
                                Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 18:52 +0000
                                  Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:19 -0400
                                    Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:29 +0100
                                      Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 17:03 +0000
                                        Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 21:31 +0100
                                Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 22:18 -0400
                        Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:28 +0100
                          Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:07 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:39 +0000
                              Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:23 +0100
                                Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
                                  Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:05 +0100
                                    Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:43 +0200
                                      Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 08:35 +0100
                                    Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:21 +0000
                                      Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 23:14 +0200
                                Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:08 +0000
                                  Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:38 -0400
                                    Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:22 +0100
                                      Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 17:26 +0000
                                      Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 00:00 -0400
                                        Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:44 -0400
                                Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 01:49 -0400
                            Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:20 +0100
                              Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 01:23 -0400
                  Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 22:16 -0400
        Re: /dev/tcp Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:41 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:58 +0000
          Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:28 -0400
            ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-24 13:56 +0100
              Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh (was: /dev/tcp)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 14:57 +0000
                Re: Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-30 13:26 +0100
                  Re: Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-30 23:49 +0000
                  Re: Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-31 01:35 -0400
              Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 21:08 +0000
                Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 21:28 +0000
                  Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:29 +0000
                    Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:41 +0000
                      Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-31 13:43 +0100
                Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 01:11 +0000
                Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-25 13:25 +0100
                  Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:58 +0000
                    Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-26 13:34 +0100
                      Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-27 02:23 +0000
                        Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:40 -0400
                      Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 01:40 -0400
                  Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:40 +0000
              Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:25 -0400
                Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:52 +0000
                  Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
                    Re: ksh Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
                      Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:03 +0000
                      Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:04 -0400
                        Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:00 +0000
                          Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:17 -0400
                            Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 15:22 +0000
                              Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-27 17:55 +0100
                                Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 23:14 -0400
                                  Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:48 +0100
                              Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 22:43 -0400
                                Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 04:17 +0000
                                  Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 03:18 -0400
                                    Re: ksh Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-28 15:54 +0000
                                    Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 20:40 +0000
                                      Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:14 +0100
                                        Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 21:12 +0000
                    Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:35 -0400
                      Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:17 +0000
                Re: ksh Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-08-25 09:56 +0200
                  Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:24 +0200
                    Re: ksh Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-25 20:36 +0200
                      Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:23 +0000
                        Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:04 +0200
                          Re: ksh Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 10:03 +0100
                    Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:50 -0400
                    Re: ksh Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-29 13:38 +0000
                      Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 22:42 +0000
                      Re: ksh "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-30 14:26 +0200
                  Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
                    Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:43 -0400
                  Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:01 +0000
                    Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-26 01:32 +0200
                  Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 21:46 -0400
                    Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:25 +0000
      Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:22 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:57 +0100
    Re: /dev/tcp Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-23 06:37 -0700
      Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 14:49 +0100
      Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 16:13 +0100
      Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 22:31 +0000
        Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 19:08 +0100
          Re: /dev/tcp David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-29 00:52 +0100
            Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-29 04:14 +0000
              Re: /dev/tcp David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-29 19:06 +0100
            [OT] Weather Underground (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 08:58 +0100
              Re: [OT] Weather Underground David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net> - 2026-08-29 18:15 +0100

Page 5 of 30 — ← Prev page 1 … 3 4 [5] 6 7 … 30  Next page →


#90830 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
Date2026-08-29 15:10 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<18d04f507c9f7669$199339$821642$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>
In reply to#90801
On Sat, 29 Aug 2026 08:59:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:

> 
> Are you claiming any subsequence of a random sequence, is random?
>

Yes.  If this were not true then practical random number tables
could not exist.

Before computers, subsequences from random number tables were selected
as a basis for random sampling, etc.

But your use of the qualifier "any" is a bit vague.  The subsequence
must be selected properly.

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#90886 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2026-08-30 08:58 +0100
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<1170nrd$1qav6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90830
On 8/29/26 16:10, Leroy H wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2026 08:59:34 +0100, Pancho wrote:
> 
>>
>> Are you claiming any subsequence of a random sequence, is random?
>>
> 
> Yes.  If this were not true then practical random number tables
> could not exist.
> 
> Before computers, subsequences from random number tables were selected
> as a basis for random sampling, etc.
> 
> But your use of the qualifier "any" is a bit vague.  The subsequence
> must be selected properly.
> 

It is the qualifier "any" that is the important bit. Given a long enough 
random sequence you can find a specific subsequence.

For instance in a sequence of fair tosses, eventually there will be 8 
heads in a row. So if I look for a subsequence of 8 heads in a row, I 
will find it. This subsequence of all heads is not random, not 
representative of fair coin tosses.

This translates to the real life problem of people who search data sets 
for a specific result that they want to see. They then present the 
result of their selected sample as significant or representative, which 
it isn't.

For instance a drug company may run multiple trials in different 
hospitals. They then select the best results and only publish them. 
Presenting them as what we would expect to happen in normal use.

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#90929 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-30 23:45 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<1172fad$fkiu$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90886
On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 08:58:36 +0100, Pancho wrote:

> For instance a drug company may run multiple trials in different
> hospitals. They then select the best results and only publish them.
> Presenting them as what we would expect to happen in normal use.

This is why we automatically attach a lower value to scientific survey
results when we discover that they were funded by some party with an
interest in the outcome.

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#90874 — Re: Overwriting with random data

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-29 21:47 -0400
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<o9OdnRQljZgNFg73nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90801
On 8/29/26 03:59, Pancho wrote:
> On 8/28/26 22:59, Leroy H wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2026 20:15:09 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>>
>> I just noticed this thread.
>>
>> Are the texts of William Shakespeare a random sequence?
>>
>> Most would disagree that they are a random sequence but
>> the entire output of William Shakespeare, as well as any
>> other "intelligent" author, will inevitably appear in any
>> sufficiently large random sequence of Unicode characters.
>>
>> (Remember the room full of chimps and keyboards.)
>>
>> How large is the issue.  Perhaps 10^23 chars.  Likely a
>> lot more.
>>
>> But they WILL appear and hence they MUST be random.
>>
> 
> Are you claiming any subsequence of a random sequence, is random? That 
> appears to fly in the face of statistics 101. We all know statistical 
> inference doesn't work on cherry-picked samples. That is why data 
> dredging, p-hacking is misleading.

   Well, at random, you COULD get 10^23 ones in a row :-)

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#90822 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-29 13:56 +0100
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<wwvfqzx3x0y.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#90787
Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> writes:
> Rich wrote:
> I just noticed this thread.
>
> Are the texts of William Shakespeare a random sequence?
>
> Most would disagree that they are a random sequence but
> the entire output of William Shakespeare, as well as any
> other "intelligent" author, will inevitably appear in any
> sufficiently large random sequence of Unicode characters.

It’s not inevitable.

As a trivial but analogous example, consider the probability P that a
bit of value 1 appears in a sequence of random bits (repeated flips of a
fair coin, for instance).

If the sequence is N bits long and uniformly distributed then the
probability that at least one of the bits is 1 is P=1-2^(-N)
(i.e. opposite of the probability that all the bits are 0).

P can get arbitrarily close to 1 (by making N ‘sufficiently large’), for
sure, but there is no integer N for which P=1.

The same argument, in a slightly more complex form, applies to Will’s
corpus appearing in a sequence of random Unicode characters.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#90829 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2026-08-29 14:17 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<6a92ea09$0$10325$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#90787
Le 28-08-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a écrit :
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2026 20:15:09 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>
> I just noticed this thread.

Good thing my IPS let me see your message.

> Are the texts of William Shakespeare a random sequence?

No.

> Most would disagree that they are a random sequence

Because it's not. So they would be right and you'll be wrong. As always.

> but
> the entire output of William Shakespeare, as well as any
> other "intelligent" author, will inevitably appear in any
> sufficiently large random sequence of Unicode characters.

The fact that a random generator can provide anything doesn't mean that
anything is random. Shakespeare didn't used words at random: you can
understand what he meant. A random generator wouldn't provide only
Shakespeare text, it would provide meaningless thing among which the
Shakespeare would appear. but you can understand everything Shakespeare
provided, so that wasn't random.

> (Remember the room full of chimps and keyboards.)

Forget about the remembering part. Try to start with the understanding
part.

> How large is the issue.  Perhaps 10^23 chars.  Likely a
> lot more.

No, the issue is the size of your brain. Which is very small, maybe a
human being can't find it without special tricks.

> But they WILL appear and hence they MUST be random.

Yes, but no. Clearly you don't understand what causality is. If I'm
asking you the sum of two and three. As you have no clue about simple
computation, you will ask the answer to ChatGPT and answer me that it's
five. But you could have used a dice instead and with sufficiently
enough tries, the dice would ave show you a five. It doesn't mean that
ChatGPT used a random generator to provide you the answer.

Well, as you don't know how ChatGPT works, you will tell me that ChatGPT
is based on statistics and that its answer is random, but it would only
show your lack of knowledge. Because if you ask 10 times in a row the
sum of two and three, the answer will always be the same. And if you ask
the same thing to a dice, the answer would change almost every time. So
one is randomly generated when the other isn't. Now, can you tell me
which one is and which one isn't? Of course you can't, it was a
rhetorical question, but it tells more about you than about what
randomness is.

> Thus, randomness can only be defined "locally."

You are confusing randomness and simultaneity.

> That
> is, a random string of a pre-determined finite length must
> pass all tests of randomness to be judged random.

Is the drug you are taking legal? the fucking sangria you are praising
so much can't explain that.

> A sequence of a billion identical chars would appear
> (very frequently) within a sufficiently large random
> sequence but would certainly not pass any tests of
> randomness.

You can't pass the test of randomness. Because sometimes you wold
provide smart things. When you are wrong 100% of times, it can't be
explained by randomness. Either you are a troll or you are the
stupidest things on earth.

> IOW, randomness is whatever passes the accepted tests for
> randomness.

Funny guy.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#90831 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
Date2026-08-29 16:02 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<18d05221bff76e57$199370$821642$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>
In reply to#90829
On 29 Aug 2026 14:17:45 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> 
> Shakespeare didn't used words at random: you can
> understand what he meant. A random generator wouldn't provide only
> Shakespeare text, it would provide meaningless thing among which the
> Shakespeare would appear. but you can understand everything Shakespeare
> provided, so that wasn't random.
> 

My associate on Planet X^X, with whom I communicate via universal
thought patterns, would find the Shakespeare text to be meaningless
gibberish.  He (or it?) does not comprehend human language and thus
the text would seem quite random (although it would not pass many
rigorous tests of randomness).

OTOH, I presented my associate on Planet X^X with a sequence of
digits that passed many rigorous tests for randomness.  But he (or it?)
immediately recognized it as the real root of a certain math
equation.

It is well known that "almost all" real numbers are "normal," that
is their digit sequences are essentially random.

But my associate was able predict every digit in the sequence even
though it qualified, through testing, as being quite random.

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#90839 — Re: Overwriting with random data

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-08-29 22:12 +0200
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<nfgspfF3giU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90831
On 2026-08-29 18:02, Leroy H wrote:
> On 29 Aug 2026 14:17:45 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> 
>>
>> Shakespeare didn't used words at random: you can
>> understand what he meant. A random generator wouldn't provide only
>> Shakespeare text, it would provide meaningless thing among which the
>> Shakespeare would appear. but you can understand everything Shakespeare
>> provided, so that wasn't random.
>>
> 
> My associate on Planet X^X, with whom I communicate via universal
> thought patterns, would find the Shakespeare text to be meaningless
> gibberish.  He (or it?) does not comprehend human language and thus
> the text would seem quite random (although it would not pass many
> rigorous tests of randomness).

No, he would not.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#90847 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
Date2026-08-29 21:04 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<18d0629725493544$177297$916528$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>
In reply to#90839
On Sat, 29 Aug 2026 22:12:31 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> 
> No, he would not.
>

Would you, an intelligent human (i.e. Homo sapiens), consider
the following 1000 char sequence of hexadecimal chars to be random:
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1000 chars may not be sufficient for meaningful tests but I have
to make the cut-off at a reasonable level for this post.

It may appear random and it may test random but these are
actually the first 1000 hexadecimal digits of Pi.

Thus, it is a completely deterministic sequence.

My associate from Planet X^X can easily discern this.  For him
(or it?) it would be Shakespeare.


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#91123 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2026-09-05 09:32 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<6a9be1a1$0$7124$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#90831
Le 29-08-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a écrit :
> On 29 Aug 2026 14:17:45 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> 
>> Shakespeare didn't used words at random: you can
>> understand what he meant. A random generator wouldn't provide only
>> Shakespeare text, it would provide meaningless thing among which the
>> Shakespeare would appear. but you can understand everything Shakespeare
>> provided, so that wasn't random.
>> 
>
> My associate on Planet X^X, with whom I communicate via universal
> thought patterns, would find the Shakespeare text to be meaningless
> gibberish.  He (or it?) does not comprehend human language and thus
> the text would seem quite random (although it would not pass many
> rigorous tests of randomness).

No, it wouldn't pass many rigorous tests of randomness. A rigorous test
should see a lot of patterns. For example, if the test is rigorous, it
should find that there is a limited number of characters. And it should
find that some characters appear more often than others. And it should
find that some characters are more often combined with other characters.
And it should find that some character combinations are more frequent
than others.

So only a test designed by you could failed to see it's not random.

> OTOH, I presented my associate on Planet X^X with a sequence of
> digits that passed many rigorous tests for randomness.  But he (or it?)
> immediately recognized it as the real root of a certain math
> equation.

A random generator should generate some patterns from time to time. The
meaning behind a random generator is not to tell that no pattern should
ever occur, it means that you can't guess when the pattern will occur.
You can try to guess it, maybe you'll be lucky from time to time. But if
the generator is truly random, you'll never beat another random
generator.

> It is well known that "almost all" real numbers are "normal,"

That means nothing. All real numbers are normal. People are giving some
meaning to some numbers, but they are not less or more normal than
others.

> But my associate was able predict every digit in the sequence even
> though it qualified, through testing, as being quite random.

Because your random generator is bad. The "being quite random" is a bad
random generator. Being able to guess the output of a random generator
once in a thousand time is well enough to qualify it as broken which
should be avoided. Being able to guess every digit is well enough to
qualify it as designed by you.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#91124 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-09-05 13:49 +0100
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<wwvbjabq2wf.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#91123
Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
> Le 29-08-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a écrit :
>> It is well known that "almost all" real numbers are "normal,"
>
> That means nothing.

It means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number

> All real numbers are normal.

Counterexample: 0.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#91843 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromAndreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
Date2026-09-20 15:54 +0200
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<877bkg9gfl.fsf@eder.anydns.info>
In reply to#91124
On Sa 05 Sep 2026 at 13:49, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:
>> Le 29-08-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a écrit :
>>> It is well known that "almost all" real numbers are "normal,"
>>
>> That means nothing.
>
> It means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number
>
>> All real numbers are normal.
>
> Counterexample: 0.

except for a set of measure 0.

'Andreas

-- 
ceterum censeo redmondinem esse delendam

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#90706 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 00:58 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116qmge$1u4ip$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90602
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 8/25/26 10:19, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>> The kernel provides two sources: one that waits if there is not 
>>> enough random data, and the other that doesn't wait and provides 
>>> what it can.
>> 
>> /dev/random and /dev/urandom are functionally equivalent today; 
>> disregarding some details about system startup which don’t apply to 
>> most use caes, neither will block.
>> 
>>> I call the former "true random".  More true random I consider 
>>> unobtainium and go without.
>> 
>> “True random” means something different, you need to change your 
>> terminology.
> 
>   Yep. "Random" is still kind of unobtanium.

Nope.  Only if you limit yourself to trying to program a deterministic 
computer program to create the randomness.

>   Though only the top-level crypto people worry about it very much.
> 
>   "Damned-near Random" can be had quite easily.
> 
>   TRUE 'random' ...  not even sure quantum trix can deliver that.  
>   Quantum is statistical, which narrows-down potential options.  
>   People with a lot of CPU might take advantage.

You can get a true random generator yourself for a relatively small 
amount of cash.  Most are based on counting radioactive decay of some 
isotope of some element (I am not bothering to look up which one).  

It seems there's even a Hackaday project about building your own DIY 
version:

https://hackaday.io/project/4628-nuclear-random-number-generator

It's not hard, nor difficult, it's just very unnecessary for 99.999% of 
folks who are doing anything that wants a random number input.

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#90746 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 12:23 +0100
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116rr2l$28guo$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90706
On 28/08/2026 01:58, Rich wrote:
> You can get a true random generator yourself for a relatively small
> amount of cash.  Most are based on counting radioactive decay of some
> isotope of some element (I am not bothering to look up which one).
> 
Its a lot easier to get a true flat noise generator like a resistor or a 
Zener diode, that generates noise up into the gigahertz band, amplify it 
and apply it to a fast comparator.

Simply read off a sequence of bits from the comparator.

> It seems there's even a Hackaday project about building your own DIY
> version:
> 
> https://hackaday.io/project/4628-nuclear-random-number-generator
> 
> It's not hard, nor difficult, it's just very unnecessary for 99.999% of
> folks who are doing anything that wants a random number input.

Exactly.

-- 
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the 
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

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#90705 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 00:53 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116qm5p$1u4ip$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90506
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-08-25 08:39, c186282 wrote:
>> On 8/24/26 16:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-24 21:57, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>>>> Using true random data is slow, specially if the disk or partition is
>>>>> very big. Depends on how fast can the machine create new random data
>>>>> (see man random and urandom). So I do tricks to do it faster.
>>>>
>>>> With very few exceptions nobody uses true random[1] data directly.
>>>> /dev/random is a DRBG seeded from the random sources the kernel finds;
>>>> shred sees its internal RNG with 32 bytes from the kernel (strace
>>>> it...); I don’t know where you’re getting random data from but the
>>>> chances that it’s direct from a TRNG are negligible.
>>>
>>> Normally
>>>
>>>    dd if=/dev/urandom of=$BIGRANDOM count=1024 bs=1M
>>>
>>> or in pascal
>>>
>>> var
>>>     randomsource : file of byte;
>>>     x: Integer;
>>> begin
>>>     try
>>>        assign(randomsource, '/dev/urandom');
>>>        reset(randomsource);
>>>        for x:= 1 to shuflecount do
>>>           read(randomsource, BigData[Index, x]);
>>>     finally
>>>        close(randomsource);
>>>     end;
>>> end;
>> 
>>    MIGHT not be as "random" as you hope. This has
>>    LONG been a problem.
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Right now I have the doubt if I should have used /dev/random instead (I 
> never remember which is which). But it is not that important.

They are both driven by the same generator underneath.  The big 
difference used to be that /dev/random would block when its "entropy 
estimate" dropped below some arbitrary threshold.  With newer kernels 
that only happens at first bootup.  After that, they are both the same 
now.

>>    Rather than rely on some canned function, DO add   some shit from 
>>  very transient machine-related vars   as well.  Video vars, CPU 
>>  temps, that kind of shit.    STILL not really truly "random" - but 
>>  a lot closer.
>> 
>>    If you want TRUE "random", I suspect some kind of   little 
>>  quantum device will be needed.
> 
> it is true random in the sense that the kernel provides it as random. 
> That is enough.
> 
> The kernel provides two sources: one that waits if there is not enough 
> random data, and the other that doesn't wait and provides what it can. I 
> call the former "true random". More true random I consider unobtainium 
> and go without.

Both retreive their output from the exact same generator inside the 
kernel.  Neither is more random than the other, they are one and the 
same.  The only difference was the blocking action, and that was always 
based on a misunderstanding early on, which is why it eventually was 
dropped from the driver in later kernels.

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#90519 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 12:12 +0100
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116jta2$3l7js$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90495
On 25/08/2026 07:39, c186282 wrote:
> If you want TRUE "random", I suspect some kind of
>    little quantum device will be needed.

Run a Zener diodes amplified output through an A to D converter.
That's quantum...

-- 
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism 
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, 
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and 
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' 
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for 
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet 
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that 
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian 
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

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#90587 — Re: Overwriting with random data

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-26 00:09 -0400
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<ZfqcnXZt_dTR-hP3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90519
On 8/25/26 07:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/08/2026 07:39, c186282 wrote:
>> If you want TRUE "random", I suspect some kind of
>>    little quantum device will be needed.
> 
> Run a Zener diodes amplified output through an A to D converter.
> That's quantum...

   Pretty much, theoretically. Tunnel diodes might
   be exploited in a similar fashion. Anything where
   'quantum noise' gets involved.

   Anyway, STILL hear paranoia from the "Top People"
   about pseudo-random numbers for hard core crypto.
   For most of us it's not really a thing, but at
   the very high/secret levels ... stuff evil players
   will invest millions/billions into cracking ....

   Oh, even quantum obeys some statistical rules,
   on a larger scale states/events ARE kinda
   constrained. IF you can put enough CPU/AI on
   the case it could narrow down the best attacks
   on crypto systems.

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#90606 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-26 08:52 +0100
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116m60p$e9qm$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90587
On 26/08/2026 05:09, c186282 wrote:
> On 8/25/26 07:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 25/08/2026 07:39, c186282 wrote:
>>> If you want TRUE "random", I suspect some kind of
>>>    little quantum device will be needed.
>>
>> Run a Zener diodes amplified output through an A to D converter.
>> That's quantum...
> 
>    Pretty much, theoretically. Tunnel diodes might
>    be exploited in a similar fashion. Anything where
>    'quantum noise' gets involved.
> 

TBH  any noise source - even thermal noise - can be used


-- 
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of 
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people 
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

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#90708 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 01:02 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116qmn5$1u4ip$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90606
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/08/2026 05:09, c186282 wrote:
>> On 8/25/26 07:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 25/08/2026 07:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>> If you want TRUE "random", I suspect some kind of
>>>>    little quantum device will be needed.
>>>
>>> Run a Zener diodes amplified output through an A to D converter.
>>> That's quantum...
>> 
>>    Pretty much, theoretically. Tunnel diodes might
>>    be exploited in a similar fashion. Anything where
>>    'quantum noise' gets involved.
>> 
> 
> TBH  any noise source - even thermal noise - can be used

Yup.  I even saw once someone using an input on a sound card as the 
noise source for a random number generater.  I no longer have the link 
to it however.

But speed-of-light guy won't depart from his incorrect preconcieved 
notion, no matter how much evidence we present to the contrary.

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#90703 — Re: Overwriting with random data

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-08-28 00:48 +0000
SubjectRe: Overwriting with random data
Message-ID<116qlsf$1u4ip$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90495
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 8/24/26 16:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2026-08-24 21:57, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>>> Using true random data is slow, specially if the disk or partition is
>>>> very big. Depends on how fast can the machine create new random data
>>>> (see man random and urandom). So I do tricks to do it faster.
>>>
>>> With very few exceptions nobody uses true random[1] data directly.
>>> /dev/random is a DRBG seeded from the random sources the kernel finds;
>>> shred sees its internal RNG with 32 bytes from the kernel (strace
>>> it...); I don’t know where you’re getting random data from but the
>>> chances that it’s direct from a TRNG are negligible.
>> 
>> Normally
>> 
>>    dd if=/dev/urandom of=$BIGRANDOM count=1024 bs=1M
>> 
>> or in pascal
>> 
>> var
>>     randomsource : file of byte;
>>     x: Integer;
>> begin
>>     try
>>        assign(randomsource, '/dev/urandom');
>>        reset(randomsource);
>>        for x:= 1 to shuflecount do
>>           read(randomsource, BigData[Index, x]);
>>     finally
>>        close(randomsource);
>>     end;
>> end;
> 
>   MIGHT not be as "random" as you hope. This has
>   LONG been a problem.

/dev/urandom is going to be by far more random than anything you 
yourself will cook up thinking you've created random data.

>   Rather than rely on some canned function, DO add some shit from 
>   very transient machine-related vars as well.  Video vars, CPU 
>   temps, that kind of shit.  STILL not really truly "random" - but a 
>   lot closer.

That's exactly how /dev/urandom randomizes itself, so you get that, 
already done for you, by using /dev/urandom's output.

>   If you want TRUE "random", I suspect some kind of little quantum 
>   device will be needed.

Yes, you need a hardware element for true random, and often they 
produce randomness slowly, so you won't be reading from your hardware 
random generator to overwrite a disk with random data anyway.

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