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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #13769 > unrolled thread

Keeping 'order' without RTC.

Started bynot.socialnetwork@gmail.com
First post2015-02-28 12:13 +0000
Last post2015-04-14 06:46 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 219 — 49 participants

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Contents

  Keeping 'order' without RTC. not.socialnetwork@gmail.com - 2015-02-28 12:13 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-02-28 06:52 -0600
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-02-28 13:17 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-02-28 07:59 -0600
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-02-28 18:28 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-02-28 19:13 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-02-28 19:22 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 15:48 -0500
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-02-28 21:14 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-02-28 22:40 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-02-28 18:01 -0600
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 01:44 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-01 07:21 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. cl@isbd.net - 2015-03-01 09:17 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 10:08 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 11:29 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 17:18 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 18:33 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 09:06 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 09:19 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-02 17:13 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-02 09:29 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-02 16:27 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> - 2015-03-05 08:36 -0400
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. cl@isbd.net - 2015-03-01 11:25 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-01 11:40 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 16:08 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-01 17:11 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 18:47 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-01 19:26 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-03-03 22:27 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 00:50 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 01:51 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-03-04 17:05 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 17:59 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 11:46 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-06 00:00 +0000
                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-06 06:55 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 07:31 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 10:00 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 11:01 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 22:15 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 22:20 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-05 01:07 +0000
                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-05 10:20 +0000
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-05 10:51 +0000
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 11:53 +0000
                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-05 15:35 +0000
                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 17:24 +0000
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 11:49 +0000
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-05 23:56 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:06 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 22:34 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-04 08:23 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-04 11:19 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-04 17:44 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:10 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-03-04 10:43 +0200
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-04 09:28 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:11 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-04 08:22 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-02-28 13:34 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 09:14 -0500
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-02-28 08:52 -0600
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-02-28 15:22 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 15:46 -0500
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-02-28 21:10 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 19:48 -0500
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-03-01 09:08 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-03-01 07:52 -0500
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 16:15 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 20:28 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. not.socialnetwork@gmail.com - 2015-03-01 11:00 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-01 11:17 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 07:37 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-03 17:21 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 11:43 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 10:44 -0800
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-01 19:08 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 20:46 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 13:12 -0800
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 13:07 -0800
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 21:56 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 14:49 -0800
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-02-28 18:26 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-02-28 19:29 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-03-01 14:22 -0500
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 21:54 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 16:12 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2015-03-02 19:57 +0100
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "David B" <askforemail@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 10:15 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-03 19:38 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-04 10:43 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 11:23 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-04 11:30 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-04 15:25 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:13 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-04 16:31 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "David B" <askforemail@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 16:38 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-04 17:39 +0100
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "David B" <askforemail@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 16:53 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-04 17:03 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-03-04 08:52 -0800
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:23 -0500
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-04 17:29 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:16 -0500
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-03-05 22:38 -0500
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-06 17:46 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2015-03-06 18:45 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-03-06 14:56 -0600
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-06 06:30 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2015-03-06 08:24 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-06 17:46 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-03-06 10:02 -0800
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-06 09:26 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-07 00:34 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-06 06:21 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 11:17 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-03-06 14:56 -0600
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-07 12:14 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-08 02:38 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-03-07 21:15 -0600
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-03-07 21:44 -0600
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:26 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-08 09:42 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-03 23:20 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 08:52 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-05 09:13 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-05 09:47 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 01:31 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 04:53 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-11 05:24 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-03-11 07:58 -0700
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-11 19:01 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2015-03-11 13:20 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 17:17 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-12 13:50 -0400
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2015-04-13 13:14 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-13 15:10 +0100
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2015-04-14 00:30 +1000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-13 17:47 +0100
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2015-04-15 22:37 +0200
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-17 02:32 +0100
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 23:09 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2015-04-27 13:13 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-13 16:22 -0400
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-04-13 21:14 -0400
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-04-13 21:55 -0400
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-14 09:06 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-14 10:12 +0100
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-04-14 10:29 +0100
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-14 12:05 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-04-14 22:08 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-16 14:11 -0400
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-16 20:15 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-04-14 05:25 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-16 14:13 -0400
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-04-16 20:18 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-04 03:44 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-04 04:44 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Ryan <noreply@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2015-05-04 07:54 -0400
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-04 18:26 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2015-05-04 19:40 +0100
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Kees Theunissen <theuniss@rijnh.nl> - 2015-05-04 22:31 +0200
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-04 22:35 +0000
                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-04 19:13 -0500
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-05 02:56 +0000
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Baeuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2015-05-05 08:04 +0000
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-05 09:22 +0100
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-05 08:26 -0500
                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-05 18:08 +0000
                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-05-11 23:16 +0100
                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-11 17:52 -0500
                                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 07:09 +0100
                                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 06:47 +0000
                                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 08:27 +0100
                                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 15:44 +0000
                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 17:08 +0100
                                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 17:21 +0000
                                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-12 12:41 -0500
                                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 19:03 +0100
                                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 18:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 19:59 +0100
                                                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 20:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 22:58 +0100
                                                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-13 01:15 +0000
                                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-13 08:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-13 09:24 +0100
                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-12 11:50 -0500
                                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 18:52 +0100
                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 17:29 +0000
                                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 18:36 +0000
                                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 20:00 +0100
                                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 20:06 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 06:14 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 06:09 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 06:44 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 17:45 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 21:06 +0100
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-04-14 23:18 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-04-14 20:58 -0400
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-04-15 06:20 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2015-04-16 02:58 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 05:21 +0100
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-04-16 11:42 +0200
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-04-16 12:10 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 13:42 +0100
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-04-16 15:06 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 23:09 +0100
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-16 14:17 -0400
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 09:56 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-04-16 06:13 -0400
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 12:40 +0100
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-04-16 16:32 -0400
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-04-17 01:54 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-17 06:34 +0100
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dr J R Stockton <reply1500@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-04-18 23:13 +0100
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-04-13 20:39 -0500
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-04-14 06:46 +0000

Page 9 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 11  Next page →


#14700

FromJack Ryan <noreply@remailer.cpunk.us>
Date2015-05-04 07:54 -0400
Message-ID<c9faa9d271f7399859d4a66e16d4860e@remailer.cpunk.us>
In reply to#14698
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:

> Actually intrnally it too just keeps count of seconds. There is a well
> defined algorithm to turn seconds since epoch into civil time.

Unless you fail to keep your leap seconds table up-to-date. Civil time is 
not linear.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14701

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-04 18:26 +0000
Message-ID<mi8djo$6cf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14700
On 2015-05-04, Jack Ryan <noreply@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> Actually intrnally it too just keeps count of seconds. There is a well
>> defined algorithm to turn seconds since epoch into civil time.
>
> Unless you fail to keep your leap seconds table up-to-date. Civil time is 
> not linear.

Agreed. But there is still a well defined algorithm. The RTC is worse.
As far as I know, it never takes leap seconds into account. Fortunately
it is usually recalibrated on shutdown, so the system, which should take
leap seconds into account ( although I am not sure Windows does) can
reinitialise the RTC.

>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14702

From"John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk>
Date2015-05-04 19:40 +0100
Message-ID<54be9f3ceaUCEbin@tiscali.co.uk>
In reply to#14701
In article <mi8djo$6cf$1@dont-email.me>,
   William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:

> As far as I know, it never takes leap seconds into account.

When you're my age, the right day'll do, more or less.

Time to the minute is a luxury!

Seconds? Pah!

John

-- 
John Williams, now back in the UK - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14703

FromKees Theunissen <theuniss@rijnh.nl>
Date2015-05-04 22:31 +0200
Message-ID<5547d725$0$2832$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#14701
William Unruh wrote:
> On 2015-05-04, Jack Ryan <noreply@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote:
>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually intrnally it too just keeps count of seconds. There is a well
>>> defined algorithm to turn seconds since epoch into civil time.
>>
>> Unless you fail to keep your leap seconds table up-to-date. Civil time is
>> not linear.
>
> Agreed. But there is still a well defined algorithm. The RTC is worse.
> As far as I know, it never takes leap seconds into account. Fortunately
> it is usually recalibrated on shutdown, so the system, which should take
> leap seconds into account ( although I am not sure Windows does) can
> reinitialise the RTC.
>

The unix system clock ignores leap seconds. Each day since the epoch
is counted as 24 * 3600 seconds.

Look at the value of the counter tonight at midnight UTC:

~$ date +%s -u -d 'May 5 2015 00:00:00'
1430784000

This is exactly 16560 * 24 * 3600. So leap second are not counted in
the system clock's representation of "the number of seconds since the
epoch".


Regards,

Kees.

-- 
Kees Theunissen.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14704

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-04 22:35 +0000
Message-ID<mi8s6m$2kn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14703
On 2015-05-04, Kees Theunissen <theuniss@rijnh.nl> wrote:
> William Unruh wrote:
>> On 2015-05-04, Jack Ryan <noreply@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote:
>>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually intrnally it too just keeps count of seconds. There is a well
>>>> defined algorithm to turn seconds since epoch into civil time.
>>>
>>> Unless you fail to keep your leap seconds table up-to-date. Civil time is
>>> not linear.
>>
>> Agreed. But there is still a well defined algorithm. The RTC is worse.
>> As far as I know, it never takes leap seconds into account. Fortunately
>> it is usually recalibrated on shutdown, so the system, which should take
>> leap seconds into account ( although I am not sure Windows does) can
>> reinitialise the RTC.
>>
>
> The unix system clock ignores leap seconds. Each day since the epoch
> is counted as 24 * 3600 seconds.

Well, yes and no. If you have no way of telling your system that a leap
second is to occur, then it cannot take account of it. If houser you
have the leapsecond file or are running ntpd or chronyd then it does
take leap seconds into account. 
>
> Look at the value of the counter tonight at midnight UTC:
>
> ~$ date +%s -u -d 'May 5 2015 00:00:00'
> 1430784000
>
> This is exactly 16560 * 24 * 3600. So leap second are not counted in
> the system clock's representation of "the number of seconds since the
> epoch".

Which means that leap seconds HAVE been taken into account since there
have been leap seconds since the epoch. The clock gives UTC. Of course
this depends on what you call "takes account

Which means that leap seconds HAVE been taken into account since there
have been leap seconds since the epoch. The clock gives UTC. Of course
this depends on what you call "takes account".  The number of seconds
since the epoch is just what it would be if leap seconds were taken into
account. That is not the same as the number of seconds that have
actually elapsed since Jan1 1970.

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kees.
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14705

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2015-05-04 19:13 -0500
Message-ID<87a8xj6fuu.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#14704
William Unruh writes:
> Which means that leap seconds HAVE been taken into account since there
> have been leap seconds since the epoch. The clock gives UTC. Of course
> this depends on what you call "takes account".  The number of seconds
> since the epoch is just what it would be if leap seconds were taken
> into account. That is not the same as the number of seconds that have
> actually elapsed since Jan1 1970.

Unix time is the number of seconds that have elapsed since 00:00:00 UTC
1 January 1970.  Leap seconds are ignored.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14706

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-05 02:56 +0000
Message-ID<mi9bg0$a18$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14705
On 2015-05-05, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
> William Unruh writes:
>> Which means that leap seconds HAVE been taken into account since there
>> have been leap seconds since the epoch. The clock gives UTC. Of course
>> this depends on what you call "takes account".  The number of seconds
>> since the epoch is just what it would be if leap seconds were taken
>> into account. That is not the same as the number of seconds that have
>> actually elapsed since Jan1 1970.
>
> Unix time is the number of seconds that have elapsed since 00:00:00 UTC
> 1 January 1970.  Leap seconds are ignored.

Not sure what you mean by "leap seconds are ignored". AFAIK Unix time is
UTC. UTC is does "ignore" leap seconds. Ie, they are not counted in the
counting of the number of seconds between two dates. Is this what you
are saying, or are you saying that Unix time is TAI?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14707

FromMichael Baeuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de>
Date2015-05-05 08:04 +0000
Message-ID<AABVSHY+740AAAoA.A1.flnews@WStation3.stz-e.de>
In reply to#14706
William Unruh wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
> > William Unruh writes:
> > > 
> > > Which means that leap seconds HAVE been taken into account since there
> > > have been leap seconds since the epoch. The clock gives UTC. Of course
> > > this depends on what you call "takes account".  The number of seconds
> > > since the epoch is just what it would be if leap seconds were taken
> > > into account. That is not the same as the number of seconds that have
> > > actually elapsed since Jan1 1970.
> > 
> > Unix time is the number of seconds that have elapsed since 00:00:00 UTC
> > 1 January 1970.  Leap seconds are ignored.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "leap seconds are ignored". AFAIK Unix time is
> UTC. UTC is does "ignore" leap seconds. Ie, they are not counted in the
> counting of the number of seconds between two dates. Is this what you
> are saying, or are you saying that Unix time is TAI?

The definition of POSIX "seconds since epoche" and how to convert an UTC
date to this representation can be found here:
<http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap04.html#tag_04_15>


[Xpost and Fup2 set to comp.os.linux.misc]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14708

FromRichard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk>
Date2015-05-05 09:22 +0100
Message-ID<wwv383ba0xj.fsf@l1AntVDjLrnP7Td3DQJ8ynzIq3lJMueXf87AxnpFoA.invalid>
In reply to#14706
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> writes:
> On 2015-05-05, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> William Unruh writes:
>>> Which means that leap seconds HAVE been taken into account since there
>>> have been leap seconds since the epoch. The clock gives UTC. Of course
>>> this depends on what you call "takes account".  The number of seconds
>>> since the epoch is just what it would be if leap seconds were taken
>>> into account. That is not the same as the number of seconds that have
>>> actually elapsed since Jan1 1970.
>>
>> Unix time is the number of seconds that have elapsed since 00:00:00 UTC
>> 1 January 1970.  Leap seconds are ignored.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "leap seconds are ignored".

He means exactly that.  Count all the elapsed seconds since the epoch
except for leap seconds.  That’s the time_t value return by time().

> AFAIK Unix time is UTC. UTC is does "ignore" leap seconds.

I’m not sure what you mean by “is does”.  Traditional Unix time (or
CLOCK_REALTIME) is just a counter, as described above.  You can recover
the corresponding UTC time (without knowing leap seconds) and the
corresponding TAI time (but you need to know about all the leap
seconds).  You can’t go the other way: the moment half way through a
leap second simply cannot be represented in Unix time.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#14709

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2015-05-05 08:26 -0500
Message-ID<87383brw82.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#14706
I wrote:
> Unix time is the number of seconds that have elapsed since 00:00:00 UTC
> 1 January 1970.  Leap seconds are ignored.

William Unruh writes:
> Not sure what you mean by "leap seconds are ignored". AFAIK Unix time
> is UTC. UTC is does "ignore" leap seconds. Ie, they are not counted in
> the counting of the number of seconds between two dates. Is this what
> you are saying, or are you saying that Unix time is TAI?

Except for the difference in epoch, yes, Unix time essentially is TAI.
It is a stream of sequentially numbered seconds.  The UTC jiggery-pokery
of skipping occasional seconds to try to approximate the irregular
rotation of the Earth is ignored.

In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14710

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-05 18:08 +0000
Message-ID<mib0v7$5ta$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14709
On 2015-05-05, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I wrote:
>> Unix time is the number of seconds that have elapsed since 00:00:00 UTC
>> 1 January 1970.  Leap seconds are ignored.
>
> William Unruh writes:
>> Not sure what you mean by "leap seconds are ignored". AFAIK Unix time
>> is UTC. UTC is does "ignore" leap seconds. Ie, they are not counted in
>> the counting of the number of seconds between two dates. Is this what
>> you are saying, or are you saying that Unix time is TAI?
>
> Except for the difference in epoch, yes, Unix time essentially is TAI.
> It is a stream of sequentially numbered seconds.  The UTC jiggery-pokery
> of skipping occasional seconds to try to approximate the irregular
> rotation of the Earth is ignored.
>
> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.

Well, you and Kettlewell disagree. I also found the Wikipedia Unix_time, which
they define as equivalent to Posix time,which says that
Unix time is UTC seconds (ie leap seconds are not counted) except during
the leapsecond itself when UTC adds in a 60th second to the hour, while
Unix time jumps back at the end of that second. 


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14759

Fromdruck <news@druck.org.uk>
Date2015-05-11 23:16 +0100
Message-ID<mir9l3$sgk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14709
On 05/05/2015 14:26, John Hasler wrote:
> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.

Every Unix and Linux machine, and an enormous amount of C & C++ code 
running on any platform, may beg to differ.

---druck

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#14760

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2015-05-11 17:52 -0500
Message-ID<873832ohgh.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#14759
I wrote:
> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.

druck writes:
> Every Unix and Linux machine, and an enormous amount of C & C++ code
> running on any platform, may beg to differ.

All using an offset version of UTC.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14763

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-05-12 07:09 +0100
Message-ID<mis5ef$mc3$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#14760
On 11/05/15 23:52, John Hasler wrote:
> I wrote:
>> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.
>
> druck writes:
>> Every Unix and Linux machine, and an enormous amount of C & C++ code
>> running on any platform, may beg to differ.
>
> All using an offset version of UTC.
>
That is what Linux time IS.



-- 
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the 
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14766

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-12 06:47 +0000
Message-ID<mis7lm$a7m$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14763
On 2015-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/05/15 23:52, John Hasler wrote:
>> I wrote:
>>> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.
>>
>> druck writes:
>>> Every Unix and Linux machine, and an enormous amount of C & C++ code
>>> running on any platform, may beg to differ.
>>
>> All using an offset version of UTC.
>>
> That is what Linux time IS.

He said Unix time. 

From Wikipedia
Unix time (also known as POSIX time or erroneously as Epoch time) is a
system for describing instants in time, defined as the number of seconds
that have elapsed since 00:00:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC),
Thursday, 1 January 1970,[1][note 1] not counting leap
seconds.[1][2][note 2] It is used widely in Unix-like and many other
operating systems and file formats. Due to its handling of leap seconds,
it is neither a linear representation of time nor a true representation
of UTC.[note 3] Unix time may be checked on most Unix systems by typing
date +%s on the command line.
>
>
And Note 3:  Unix time cannot unambiguously represent UTC leap seconds
(e.g. 31 December 1998 23:59:60), although otherwise the times it
represents are UTC.
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14767

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-05-12 08:27 +0100
Message-ID<misa1g$u69$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#14766
On 12/05/15 07:47, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2015-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/05/15 23:52, John Hasler wrote:
>>> I wrote:
>>>> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.
>>>
>>> druck writes:
>>>> Every Unix and Linux machine, and an enormous amount of C & C++ code
>>>> running on any platform, may beg to differ.
>>>
>>> All using an offset version of UTC.
>>>
>> That is what Linux time IS.
>
> He said Unix time.
>
>  From Wikipedia
> Unix time (also known as POSIX time or erroneously as Epoch time) is a
> system for describing instants in time, defined as the number of seconds
> that have elapsed since 00:00:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC),
> Thursday, 1 January 1970,[1][note 1] not counting leap
> seconds.[1][2][note 2] It is used widely in Unix-like and many other
> operating systems and file formats. Due to its handling of leap seconds,
> it is neither a linear representation of time nor a true representation
> of UTC.[note 3] Unix time may be checked on most Unix systems by typing
> date +%s on the command line.
>>
>>
> And Note 3:  Unix time cannot unambiguously represent UTC leap seconds
> (e.g. 31 December 1998 23:59:60), although otherwise the times it
> represents are UTC.
>>
So. Nothing in that disagrees with what I said.

there is a 1:1 correlation between Unix time and UTC.

Every single second of linux time corresponds to a single second in UTC.

Except where leap seconds are added, but that too is a formal defined 
and fixed relationship.


On a Linux or Unix system unix time is THE time the system has. Its 
*interpreted* into UTC or other time by the local time functions, for 
human ease, but files are not marked with UTC.



-- 
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the 
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14768

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-12 15:44 +0000
Message-ID<mit74b$338$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14767
On 2015-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/05/15 07:47, William Unruh wrote:
>> On 2015-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 11/05/15 23:52, John Hasler wrote:
>>>> I wrote:
>>>>> In practice no one actually uses Unix time as far as I know.
>>>>
>>>> druck writes:
>>>>> Every Unix and Linux machine, and an enormous amount of C & C++ code
>>>>> running on any platform, may beg to differ.
>>>>
>>>> All using an offset version of UTC.
>>>>
>>> That is what Linux time IS.
>>
>> He said Unix time.
>>
>>  From Wikipedia
>> Unix time (also known as POSIX time or erroneously as Epoch time) is a
>> system for describing instants in time, defined as the number of seconds
>> that have elapsed since 00:00:00 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC),
>> Thursday, 1 January 1970,[1][note 1] not counting leap
>> seconds.[1][2][note 2] It is used widely in Unix-like and many other
>> operating systems and file formats. Due to its handling of leap seconds,
>> it is neither a linear representation of time nor a true representation
>> of UTC.[note 3] Unix time may be checked on most Unix systems by typing
>> date +%s on the command line.
>>>
>>>
>> And Note 3:  Unix time cannot unambiguously represent UTC leap seconds
>> (e.g. 31 December 1998 23:59:60), although otherwise the times it
>> represents are UTC.
>>>
> So. Nothing in that disagrees with what I said.

Except for the representation of leap seconds. There is NO equivalent of
23:59:60 for example on Unix time. That is the time designation for a
leap second in UTC.
>
> there is a 1:1 correlation between Unix time and UTC.

So no there is not a 1:1 correlation.

>
> Every single second of linux time corresponds to a single second in
> UTC.

Except leap seconds.

>
> Except where leap seconds are added, but that too is a formal defined 
> and fixed relationship.

No, there is no designation of a leap second on Unix time. Unix time
will never return the designation above. It simply stops the clock for
that second making 23:59:59 two seconds long, not one.

>
> On a Linux or Unix system unix time is THE time the system has. Its 
> *interpreted* into UTC or other time by the local time functions, for 
> human ease, but files are not marked with UTC.
>
>
>

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#14769

FromRichard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk>
Date2015-05-12 17:08 +0100
Message-ID<wwvegml7p7v.fsf@l1AntVDjLrnP7Td3DQJ8ynzIq3lJMueXf87AxnpFoA.invalid>
In reply to#14768
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> writes:
> On 2015-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Every single second of linux time corresponds to a single second in
>> UTC.
>
> Except leap seconds.
> 
>> Except where leap seconds are added, but that too is a formal defined 
>> and fixed relationship.
>
> No, there is no designation of a leap second on Unix time. Unix time
> will never return the designation above. It simply stops the clock for
> that second making 23:59:59 two seconds long, not one.

TNP is right to say that each second of Unix time corresponds to a
single second in UTC; formally speaking, there is an injective mapping
from Unix time to UTC.  The reverse isn’t true, but I don’t think he (or
anyone else) is claiming it is.  As such “Except leap seconds” make no
sense as a response, because there is no representation of them among
“every second of Unix time”.

However, under current policies, future leap seconds are not fixed; the
need for them is determined through measurement and their introduction
is not predictable.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#14771

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-05-12 17:21 +0000
Message-ID<mitcqk$rvc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14769
On 2015-05-12, Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> writes:
>> On 2015-05-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Every single second of linux time corresponds to a single second in
>>> UTC.
>>
>> Except leap seconds.
>> 
>>> Except where leap seconds are added, but that too is a formal defined 
>>> and fixed relationship.
>>
>> No, there is no designation of a leap second on Unix time. Unix time
>> will never return the designation above. It simply stops the clock for
>> that second making 23:59:59 two seconds long, not one.
>
> TNP is right to say that each second of Unix time corresponds to a
> single second in UTC; formally speaking, there is an injective mapping

That depends on what you mean by "every second of Unix time". Unix time,
UTC time, etc are all concerned with how the seconds are labeled. 
In Unix time, the leap seconds are either unlabeled, or in (almost) all
implimentations they are labeled with the same label as the last second
before the leap second. I do not believe tht any computer in existence
would, if asked for the time on a leapsecond, return either and error,
or an undefined. On linux it returns the same label as the previous
second. On Android apparently, the time throught a timespan around the
leapsecond returns a time which differs from UTC of Unix time by up to a
second. I do not know what Posix says you should return if a time
request comes in during a leapsecond. 

Wikipedia claims that Unix time proceeds through the leapsecond, and
then jumps back at the start of the next second. Thus the same Unix
label refers to two different labels in either UTC or TAI.

Of course actually implimenting that would be a disaster, since, for
example, a timestamp indicating a later time could have actually occured
at an earlier time, confusing the hell out of the system. Thus Mills
stops the clock and has the system clock return a slightly (by
microseconds) later time on a subsequent call to the stopped clock. (Ie,
the clock does not exactly stop, it ticks by a microsecond but only when
actually queried.)
That ensure that the clock always advances-- a later reading gives a
later time. Pretty horrible if you are timing something, but...




> from Unix time to UTC.  The reverse isn???t true, but I don???t think he (or
> anyone else) is claiming it is.  As such ???Except leap seconds??? make no
> sense as a response, because there is no representation of them among
> ???every second of Unix time???.

Sure there is. 

>
> However, under current policies, future leap seconds are not fixed; the
> need for them is determined through measurement and their introduction
> is not predictable.
>

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#14774

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2015-05-12 12:41 -0500
Message-ID<87pp65n163.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#14771
William Unruh writes:
> Wikipedia claims that Unix time proceeds through the leapsecond, and
> then jumps back at the start of the next second. Thus the same Unix
> label refers to two different labels in either UTC or TAI.

That's POSIX time.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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