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The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn

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  The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-05 21:31 +0000
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-05 23:12 +0000
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-06 13:55 +0100
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2025-11-06 16:37 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-06 18:51 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-07 11:14 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-07 13:06 +0100
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-07 13:43 +0000
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-07 15:17 +0100
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-07 20:59 -0500
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 06:39 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 07:12 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-08 02:56 -0500
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 12:41 +0100
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:09 +0100
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-07 20:09 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-07 21:50 -0500
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 07:24 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-08 02:57 -0500
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 11:56 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:10 +0100
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 12:15 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 12:26 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:34 +0100
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 13:08 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 13:27 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 15:25 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:42 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-09 15:20 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:46 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 09:06 +0100
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-11-08 16:05 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 17:02 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 00:52 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 12:47 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 08:38 -0800
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 17:35 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 01:03 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 13:01 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 15:02 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:46 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:18 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 12:14 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:44 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:56 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 20:42 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 21:17 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-11-08 21:46 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 15:37 -0800
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:55 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:42 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 09:15 +0100
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 20:58 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:46 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 22:36 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 01:09 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 03:53 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:58 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:42 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:51 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 15:30 -0800
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 03:19 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 09:53 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:45 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 13:28 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 22:32 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-10 00:14 -0500
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-15 10:25 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-12 04:36 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-12 20:41 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 08:29 -0800
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> - 2025-11-08 18:31 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 20:42 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-08 21:53 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 22:10 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 04:23 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 00:31 -0500
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 12:55 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:15 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:49 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 23:47 -0500
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:07 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 16:46 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 00:34 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-08 22:13 -0800
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 01:48 -0500
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 13:10 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:41 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 20:40 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-11-09 13:14 -0800
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-10 08:11 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-12 22:36 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-13 05:52 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 17:38 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:16 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-13 10:43 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 17:33 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:57 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 05:56 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:14 +0100
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:23 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-16 03:06 +0100
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-16 02:35 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 00:02 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 05:34 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-09 01:42 -0500
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-09 12:58 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-10 00:06 -0500
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 12:22 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:02 +0000
                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 23:24 +0000
                                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-11 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-11 00:39 -0500
                                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:50 +0000
                                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-11-11 07:38 +0100
                                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-11 20:22 +0000
                                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-12 00:10 -0500
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-12 20:48 +0000
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:54 +0000
                                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:43 +0100
                                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:09 +0000
                                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-15 02:07 +0000
                                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-14 23:14 -0500
                                              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:23 +0100
                                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-12 00:38 -0500
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-12 20:34 +0000
                                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:57 +0000
                            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:46 +0000
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:16 +0100
                          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 18:44 +0000
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-09 19:56 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:17 +0100
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-11-09 01:21 +0000
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:21 +0100
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-11-10 00:00 +0000
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-08 13:24 +0200
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-08 20:54 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 21:43 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-09 14:08 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:39 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-15 10:09 +0000
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:25 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-10 23:19 +0100
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 23:52 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-11 00:06 +0000
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 19:13 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 19:11 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-14 20:11 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-11-15 10:34 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-15 22:35 +0000
            Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:00 +0100
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-11-17 12:01 -0500
              Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 01:06 +0000
                Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:25 +0100
                  Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:20 +0000
                    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 08:49 +0100
                      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 08:11 +0000
                        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 17:46 +0100
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-15 14:03 +0200
    Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 05:57 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-11-10 01:01 -0500
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 07:42 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-11-14 19:16 +0000
      Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-11-10 08:16 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-10 08:25 +0000
        Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-11-10 21:02 +0000
          Re: The First 8 Commands Every New User Should Learn Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 22:26 +0000

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#77104

On 2025-11-08 12:56, Diego Garcia wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 21:50:41 -0500, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>
>>     So, it all just comes to you by space-alien
>>     telepathic channels ?
>>
> 
> "space-alien telepathic channel" = idiot-proof GUI = GNOME, KDE
> 
> 
>>
>>     Oh, and we DON'T want just 'super-humans' using
>>     Linux ...
>>
> 
> A programmer is not "super human," and Linux was/is made
> by and for programmers.

Bullshit.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77105

On 08/11/2025 11:56, Diego Garcia wrote:
> Linux was/is made
> by and for programmers.

You sure about that?
AFAICR Linus just decided Unix was too expensive and DOS was too crap.

The use to which any of them were put was not a huge driver in his  thinking


-- 
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and 
higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey

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#77107

On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 12:15:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 08/11/2025 11:56, Diego Garcia wrote:
>> Linux was/is made
>> by and for programmers.
> 
> You sure about that?
> AFAICR Linus just decided Unix was too expensive and DOS was too crap.
> 

I wasn't around back then but I believe that Torvalds began
Linux as a self-study project during graduate school in Finland.
Basically he wanted to explore memory management, context switching,
etc. on the latest (at that time) processors.

But whatever, it is quite certain that the contributors which
Linux eventually attracted were not motivated by a desire to
create a dummified Windows/Apple clone.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77111

On 2025-11-08 13:26, Diego Garcia wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 12:15:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 08/11/2025 11:56, Diego Garcia wrote:
>>> Linux was/is made
>>> by and for programmers.
>>
>> You sure about that?
>> AFAICR Linus just decided Unix was too expensive and DOS was too crap.
>>
> 
> I wasn't around back then but I believe that Torvalds began
> Linux as a self-study project during graduate school in Finland.
> Basically he wanted to explore memory management, context switching,
> etc. on the latest (at that time) processors.
> 
> But whatever, it is quite certain that the contributors which
> Linux eventually attracted were not motivated by a desire to
> create a dummified Windows/Apple clone.

They certainly are not motivated by their software only been used by 
other programmers.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77117

On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 13:34:23 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> 
> They certainly are not motivated by their software only been used by 
> other programmers.
>

What is an "operating system?"

"An operating system (OS) is system software that manages computer hardware
and software resources, and provides common services for computer programs."

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system>

In short, the purpose of an OS is to run computer programs.
That is all.  Nothing more.

Where do these "computer programs" come from?  Do they
grow on trees?  Do they fall from the sky?

No. Computer programs come from computer programmers.

Back in the 1980's and 1990's, when Linux was getting
started, most programs were not produced commercially
but were written entirely within an organization or
institution.  These programmers wanted a highly professional
OS -- and they still do.

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#77118

On 08/11/2025 13:08, Diego Garcia wrote:
> Back in the 1980's and 1990's, when Linux was getting
> started, most programs were not produced commercially
> but were written entirely within an organization or
> institution.  These programmers wanted a highly professional
> OS -- and they still do.

That depends on what you mean by 'most programs'

The most *widely used* programs were solitaire, microsoft word, and 
excel or early versions thereof.

Or games.

The first thing I did with Linux was to make it run internet servers.

I have hardly ever programmed for it on an x86 platform. Only for 
Raspberry Pis.

Ther is a whole world out there beyond 'programmers' it's called 'users'


-- 
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

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#77121

On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 13:27:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> 
> Ther is a whole world out there beyond 'programmers' it's called 'users'
>

That's the problem.

"Users" won't squawk and raise a fuss when IBM/RedHat/Debian decides
to impose pseudo-solutions such as SYSTEMD and WAYLAND and unilaterally
remove choice.

However, knowledgeable programmers *will* squawk and raise a fuss.

Users will accept Linux distro tyranny.  Programmers will not.

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#77173

Le 08-11-2025, Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> a écrit :
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 13:27:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> 
>> Ther is a whole world out there beyond 'programmers' it's called 'users'
>>
>
> That's the problem.

Nope.

> "Users" won't squawk and raise a fuss when IBM/RedHat/Debian decides
> to impose pseudo-solutions such as SYSTEMD and WAYLAND and unilaterally
> remove choice.

Once again, you write garbage because you refuse to learn.

> However, knowledgeable programmers *will* squawk and raise a fuss.

No. You do because it is the only thing you can do. But others, more
knowledge programmers than you, do better than complain and are willing
to embrace improvements when they see it.

> Users will accept Linux distro tyranny.  Programmers will not.

Wrong. Once again. When Microsoft said that users need to change their
computers to be able to switch from Windows 10 to Windows 11, a lot of
them are switching to Linux. So, unless squawking and raising a useless
fuss like only a moron like you can do, they acted. They refused
Microsoft tyranny and acted against it. You should try to learn from
users.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#77180

On 09 Nov 2025 13:42:32 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> 
> Wrong. Once again. When Microsoft said that users need to change their
> computers to be able to switch from Windows 10 to Windows 11, a lot of
> them are switching to Linux. So, unless squawking and raising a useless
> fuss like only a moron like you can do, they acted. They refused
> Microsoft tyranny and acted against it. You should try to learn from
> users.
>

GNU/Linux should not welcome these people.  They come not because
they recognize GNU/Linux as a superior OS with a superior philosophy
but only because they need to find something else.  Apple is too
expensive and GNU/Linux is free.  Thus they come to GNU/Linux.

Indeed, if such people did recognize GNU/Linux as the superior OS
they would have switched a long time ago.  But they did not.  What
does that say about such people?  It says that they are only cheap
freeloaders.  GNU/Linux should not welcome such cheap freeloaders.

Freeloaders will only poison the GNU/Linux community in the long
term.  In particular, such mindless freeloaders will obediently
accept any encroachments on choice and freedom that are imposed
by the major GNU/Linux distros.  We have seen this with systemd
and wayland and we will see more of it in the future.

GNU/Linux requires users that fully understand and are willing
to vigorously defend the idea of free choice and open software.

With your defense of systemd and wayland, YOU fail completely
in that regard.

Get the fuck out of here now!

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#77203

On 09/11/2025 15:20, Diego Garcia wrote:
> With your defense of systemd and wayland, YOU fail completely
> in that regard.
Yawn

GFY

-- 
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to 
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

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#77242

On 2025-11-09 16:20, Diego Garcia wrote:
> Get the fuck out of here now!

Yawn.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#77123

On 2025-11-08, Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> wrote:

> What is an "operating system?"
>
> "An operating system (OS) is system software that manages computer hardware
> and software resources, and provides common services for computer programs."

I thought its purpose was to spread advertising.
At least that seems to be the purpose of Win11.
And then there's the whole surveillance angle...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#77126

On Sat, 08 Nov 2025 16:05:32 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> 
> I thought its purpose was to spread advertising.
> At least that seems to be the purpose of Win11.
> And then there's the whole surveillance angle...
>

As I understand it, back in the 1970's and 1980's,
the dominant mainframe time-sharing systems would
charge their customers a fee based on the amount
of CPU cycles which they consumed.

Indeed, a colleague of mine tells me that he once burned
up his entire annual computing budget in less than 10 minutes
by executing a math-intensive (very large matrix computation)
on one of these mainframe time-sharing systems.

The PC was supposed to have put an end to the time-sharing
model of computing, but things have now come full circle.

First there was javascript, where foreign code was executed
on personal computers FREE OF CHARGE.  How's that for a
bargain?  These foreign javascript programs consume quadrillions
of CPU cycles totally at the expense of the unwitting computer
owner.

Then there comes the "billboard" strategy where more quadrillions
of CPU cycles are executed, again at the expense of the owner,
in pushing advertising and collecting telemetry.

The US Congress should enact legislation where computer owners
would be compensated for all those quadrillions of CPU cycles.
But the US Congress is composed of technical derelicts that are
are stuck in the 19th century.

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#77144

On 2025-11-08, Diego Garcia wrote:

> The US Congress should enact legislation where computer owners
> would be compensated for all those quadrillions of CPU cycles.
> But the US Congress is composed of technical derelicts that are
> are stuck in the 19th century.

There's, of course, the obvious problem of seeking a solution from the
US Congress on this. That where most of us probably aren't represented
by that congress, even if its actions might still end up affecting
us. And I don't mean residents of the US "Taxation without
representation" territories, I mean the rest of the world.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#77114

On 08/11/2025 12:26, Diego Garcia wrote:
> But whatever, it is quite certain that the contributors which
> Linux eventually attracted were not motivated by a desire to
> create a dummified Windows/Apple clone.

That is not congruent with it 'being designed for programmers'

-- 
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich 
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason 
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

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#77125

On 11/8/25 04:26, Diego Garcia wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 12:15:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 08/11/2025 11:56, Diego Garcia wrote:
>>> Linux was/is made
>>> by and for programmers.
>>
>> You sure about that?
>> AFAICR Linus just decided Unix was too expensive and DOS was too crap.
>>
> 
> I wasn't around back then but I believe that Torvalds began
> Linux as a self-study project during graduate school in Finland.
> Basically he wanted to explore memory management, context switching,
> etc. on the latest (at that time) processors.
> 
> But whatever, it is quite certain that the contributors which
> Linux eventually attracted were not motivated by a desire to
> create a dummified Windows/Apple clone.
> 

	Then how did Ubuntu come into existence?
	How did Mandrake come into existence?

	And they did not create a dummified Clone of the Main
Commercial systems they create hundreds of varigated GNU/Linux
distribution even those a person like me could use and get
good results.  No matter how these systems are set up they
are useful to the Users of those systems whether they are
intended to be used by programmers or people like me who
are capable of reading and following clear directions.  Not
that after about 20 years of using Mandriva and its offshoots
I have not managed to learn about CLI commands and a
few matters outside of that typing limited tool.
	
	
bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2025.10 Linux 6.12.57-pclos1- KDE 
Plasma 6.5.2

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#77127

On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 08:38:42 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> 
> Then how did Ubuntu come into existence?
>

A whole book could be written about the meretricious Ubuntu
distro.  It, and its derivatives, is the epitome of GNU/Linux
degeneracy.

>
> How did Mandrake come into existence?
> 

I dunno.  I believe that it was a RedHat clone.

It may have been good back in the early days but currently
it has necessarily inherited the degeneracy of its ancestors.


>
> And they did not create a dummified Clone of the Main
> Commercial systems they create hundreds of varigated GNU/Linux
> distribution 
>

No.  There always have been just a small few GNU/Linux distros,
maybe only one or two.  The rest of your "hundreds of variegated"
distros are just copies of those primordial distro types.

The only standouts, and the only true distros IMO, are "Linux From
Scratch" and "Gentoo."


>
> even those a person like me could use and get
> good results.  No matter how these systems are set up they
> are useful to the Users of those systems whether they are
> intended to be used by programmers or people like me who
> are capable of reading and following clear directions.
>

It is the software, which rides atop the OS, that is useful
to the user that is "incapable of reading and following clear
directions."

The problem with GNU/Linux distros is that they are abandoning
the software that appeals to the sophisticated programmer
in favor of software that appeals to the user who is "incapable
of reading and following clear directions."

In other words, the GNU/Linux distros have abandoned CHOICE and
it is the fundamental principle of CHOICE that has made GNU/Linux
a great OS.


>
>  Not
> that after about 20 years of using Mandriva and its offshoots
> I have not managed to learn about CLI commands and a
> few matters outside of that typing limited tool.
> 	

It depends on ones background.

That's why on a television or a radio there are "channels" and
not frequencies.

But the personal computer offers the common man tremendous potential
and such potential should not be obscured by some distro-ordained
convenience.

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#77145

On 2025-11-08, Diego Garcia wrote:

> On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 08:38:42 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>  Not
>> that after about 20 years of using Mandriva and its offshoots
>> I have not managed to learn about CLI commands and a
>> few matters outside of that typing limited tool.
>> 	
>
> It depends on ones background.
>
> That's why on a television or a radio there are "channels" and
> not frequencies.

And that way you end up with a channel that carries several channels on
DVB.

(What's the DVB name for the entity which would have its own frequency
on e.g. PAL? Program?)

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#77170

On 09/11/2025 01:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-11-08, Diego Garcia wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 08:38:42 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>
>>>   Not
>>> that after about 20 years of using Mandriva and its offshoots
>>> I have not managed to learn about CLI commands and a
>>> few matters outside of that typing limited tool.
>>> 	
>>
>> It depends on ones background.
>>
>> That's why on a television or a radio there are "channels" and
>> not frequencies.
> 
> And that way you end up with a channel that carries several channels on
> DVB.
> 
No, Youu end up with a *multiplex*  on a single *frequency* that carries 
several *channels*, on DVB - and on DTB as well

> (What's the DVB name for the entity which would have its own frequency
> on e.g. PAL? Program?)

Multiplex.

> 

-- 
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the 
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

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#77179

On 2025-11-09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/11/2025 01:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2025-11-08, Diego Garcia wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 08:38:42 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Not
>>>> that after about 20 years of using Mandriva and its offshoots
>>>> I have not managed to learn about CLI commands and a
>>>> few matters outside of that typing limited tool.
>>>> 	
>>>
>>> It depends on ones background.
>>>
>>> That's why on a television or a radio there are "channels" and
>>> not frequencies.
>>
>> And that way you end up with a channel that carries several channels on
>> DVB.
>>
> No, Youu end up with a *multiplex*  on a single *frequency* that
> carries several *channels*, on DVB - and on DTB as well

But then one can't call the frequency "channel" :-)

(DTB?)

>
>> (What's the DVB name for the entity which would have its own frequency
>> on e.g. PAL? Program?)
>
> Multiplex.


-- 
Nuno Silva

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