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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #7016 > unrolled thread

Using a public IP-address in my home private network?

Started bydspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com>
First post2013-01-15 10:07 -0800
Last post2013-01-25 01:44 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 137 — 18 participants

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Contents

  Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-15 10:07 -0800
    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-01-15 18:30 +0000
    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-15 18:37 +0000
      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-16 00:59 -0800
        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-01-16 10:20 +0000
        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-16 12:00 +0000
          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-16 04:45 -0800
            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-16 12:51 +0000
            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-01-16 13:11 +0000
              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-16 06:28 -0800
              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-01-16 14:37 +0000
                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-01-16 14:58 +0000
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-01-16 15:37 +0000
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-16 08:24 -0800
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-20 19:39 +0100
            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-16 17:35 +0000
              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-20 19:42 +0100
    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-01-15 22:30 +0000
      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-16 02:41 +0000
        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-01-16 19:06 +0000
          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-16 20:27 +0000
        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-20 19:46 +0100
          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Moe Trin <ibuprofin@painkiller.example.tld.invalid> - 2013-01-20 22:07 +0000
            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-21 05:31 +0000
              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-21 00:17 -0800
                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-21 17:33 +0000
                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-01-21 21:15 +0000
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-01-21 21:56 +0000
                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> - 2013-01-22 10:11 +1100
                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-21 23:42 +0000
                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-01-22 00:09 +0000
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-22 00:33 +0000
                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-22 02:53 -0800
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-22 19:05 +0000
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-01-22 21:16 +0200
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-22 23:53 -0800
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-01-23 10:28 +0000
                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 03:28 -0800
                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-23 17:26 +0000
                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 13:02 -0800
                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-23 22:12 +0000
                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 05:12 -0800
                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-24 17:09 +0000
                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-31 23:28 +0000
                                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-01 00:33 +0000
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? James Moe <jimoeDESPAM@sohnen-moe.com> - 2013-01-23 09:56 -0700
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-23 17:25 +0000
                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-01-23 21:51 +0000
                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 05:20 -0800
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-27 11:49 +0100
                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-27 12:08 +0100
                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? James Moe <jimoeDESPAM@sohnen-moe.com> - 2013-01-21 16:49 -0700
                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-22 00:00 +0000
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? James Moe <jimoeDESPAM@sohnen-moe.com> - 2013-01-21 23:32 -0700
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-22 19:02 +0000
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-27 12:15 +0100
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? s_dubrovich@yahoo.com - 2013-01-22 09:08 -0800
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-22 19:07 +0000
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-22 19:38 +0000
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? s_dubrovich@yahoo.com - 2013-01-22 19:52 -0800
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-27 12:02 +0100
                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? James Moe <jimoeDESPAM@sohnen-moe.com> - 2013-01-21 16:46 -0700
                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-27 11:56 +0100
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-01-27 14:27 +0000
                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-27 18:21 +0100
                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-30 04:17 -0800
                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-30 12:43 +0000
                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-30 23:46 -0800
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-31 09:03 +0000
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 03:40 -0800
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-01-31 09:19 +0000
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 03:44 -0800
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-01-31 12:01 +0000
                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-01 01:49 +0100
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 23:19 -0800
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-01 10:23 +0100
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-01 11:23 +0000
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-02 12:22 +0100
                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-02 13:49 +0000
                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-02-02 10:13 -0500
                                  [OT] Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-02 16:30 +0100
                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-02-02 17:48 +0000
                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-02 18:16 +0000
                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-02-02 20:11 +0000
                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-02 14:51 -0600
                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-02 21:27 +0000
                                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-02 22:30 +0000
                                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-02 22:49 +0000
                                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 00:45 +0000
                                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-02-03 00:52 +0000
                                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:01 +0000
                                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 13:15 +0000
                                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 13:20 +0000
                                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 15:08 +0000
                                                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-02-05 10:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 15:20 +0000
                                                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-02-05 17:22 +0000
                                                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 17:59 +0000
                                                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-02-05 19:40 +0000
                                                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-05 14:17 -0600
                                                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-06 01:22 +0000
                                                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-02-06 02:11 +0000
                                                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-06 03:21 +0000
                                                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 21:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-06 00:21 +0000
                                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-02-03 15:21 +0000
                                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-02 16:24 -0600
                                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-02 22:46 +0000
                                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-02 17:57 -0600
                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-02 13:07 -0600
                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-02 16:24 +0100
                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-01 11:20 +0000
                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-02 12:19 +0100
                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-02 13:48 +0000
                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-02 16:17 +0100
                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-02 15:47 +0000
                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-02 16:26 +0000
                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? dspfun <dspfun@hotmail.com> - 2013-02-04 03:19 -0800
                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-02-04 17:03 +0000
                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 19:51 +0000
                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-06 01:14 +0100
                                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-06 09:07 +0000
                                              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-06 13:58 +0000
                                                Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-07 01:09 +0100
                                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-07 00:58 +0000
                                                    Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-09 13:46 +0100
                                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-09 15:07 +0000
                                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-09 17:06 +0000
                                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-09 17:19 +0000
                                                        ifconfig(8) vs. iproute Ivan Shmakov <oneingray@gmail.com> - 2013-02-09 17:18 +0000
                                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2013-02-10 04:44 +0000
                                                          Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-10 14:14 +0000
                                                            Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-02-11 00:19 +0000
                                        Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-06 01:09 +0100
                                      Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-02-04 21:46 +0000
                                  Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-02-02 17:30 +0100
              Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-01-25 01:44 +0100

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#7163 — [OT] Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network?

FromPascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org>
Date2013-02-02 16:30 +0100
Subject[OT] Re: Using a public IP-address in my home private network?
Message-ID<kejbdv$10np$2@saria.nerim.net>
In reply to#7160
Jean-David Beyer a écrit :
> 
> People have shown they are incapable of slef-government, so we should
> give more evolved species a chance. Or perhaps dolphins.

Actually all the species currently living on Earth are equally evolved.
They just evolved in different directions.

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#7169

FromWhiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com>
Date2013-02-02 17:48 +0000
Message-ID<slrnkgqkbk.2hq.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net>
In reply to#7160
On 2013-02-02, Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 02/02/2013 08:49 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Ineptocracy
>>
>> (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
>> lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
>> members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
>> rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of
>> a diminishing number of producers.
>>
> I suggest hippocracy as a superior system of government, as contrasted
> to the tried and found wanting form of Ineptocracy.
>
> Hippocracy is a system of government whereby it is run by a team of
> hippopotami  instead of people.

Horses, surely?  Rule by hippopotami would be "hippopotocracy".  Swift's
Gulliver's encounter with the Houyhnhnms suggests that hippocracy may be
too good for us Yahoos.

> People have shown they are incapable of slef-government, so we should
> give more evolved species a chance. Or perhaps dolphins.

Humans don't always respond well to any form of government; but they
respond very badly indeed to absence of government.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#7170

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-02-02 18:16 +0000
Message-ID<kejl62$afr$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#7169
On 02/02/13 17:48, Whiskers wrote:
> On 2013-02-02, Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 02/02/2013 08:49 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Ineptocracy
>>>
>>> (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
>>> lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
>>> members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
>>> rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of
>>> a diminishing number of producers.
>>>
>> I suggest hippocracy as a superior system of government, as contrasted
>> to the tried and found wanting form of Ineptocracy.
>>
>> Hippocracy is a system of government whereby it is run by a team of
>> hippopotami  instead of people.
>
> Horses, surely?  Rule by hippopotami would be "hippopotocracy".  Swift's
> Gulliver's encounter with the Houyhnhnms suggests that hippocracy may be
> too good for us Yahoos.
>
>> People have shown they are incapable of slef-government, so we should
>> give more evolved species a chance. Or perhaps dolphins.
>
> Humans don't always respond well to any form of government; but they
> respond very badly indeed to absence of government.
>
Yeah, Fred flintstone would have been lost without socialism and high 
taxes ..

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#7172

Fromunruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2013-02-02 20:11 +0000
Message-ID<EpePs.130346$kp4.40476@newsfe09.iad>
In reply to#7170
On 2013-02-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/02/13 17:48, Whiskers wrote:
>> On 2013-02-02, Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 02/02/2013 08:49 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> Ineptocracy
>>>>
>>>> (in-ep-toc???-ra-cy) ??? a system of government where the least capable to
>>>> lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
>>>> members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
>>>> rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of
>>>> a diminishing number of producers.
>>>>
>>> I suggest hippocracy as a superior system of government, as contrasted
>>> to the tried and found wanting form of Ineptocracy.
>>>
>>> Hippocracy is a system of government whereby it is run by a team of
>>> hippopotami  instead of people.
>>
>> Horses, surely?  Rule by hippopotami would be "hippopotocracy".  Swift's
>> Gulliver's encounter with the Houyhnhnms suggests that hippocracy may be
>> too good for us Yahoos.
>>
>>> People have shown they are incapable of slef-government, so we should
>>> give more evolved species a chance. Or perhaps dolphins.
>>
>> Humans don't always respond well to any form of government; but they
>> respond very badly indeed to absence of government.
>>
> Yeah, Fred flintstone would have been lost without socialism and high 
> taxes ..

And dead at age 25 (or 5).
Interesting reading the latest National Geographic about the Kyrzic
peoples in NE Afghanistan. One couple had 11 children. All died by age
5. They have essentially no government, taxes or socialism. Or roads,
cars or hospitals. Paradise. 



>

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#7173

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2013-02-02 14:51 -0600
Message-ID<87txpu5tj7.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#7172
unruh writes:
> Interesting reading the latest National Geographic about the Kyrzic
> peoples in NE Afghanistan. One couple had 11 children. All died by age
> 5. They have essentially no government...

Wrong.  "Tribal" people most definitely have government.  They also have
equivalents of taxes and socialism.  What they don't have is modern
technology.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#7174

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-02-02 21:27 +0000
Message-ID<kek0bn$om7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7173
On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 14:51:08h -0600, John Hasler explained:

> "Tribal" people most definitely have government.

Are there any groups of people living together who do not have
some form of government?

Even anarcho-hippie communes have some type of government, eg

     <http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Freetown_Christiania>

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#7175

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-02-02 22:30 +0000
Message-ID<kek41l$aas$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#7174
On 02/02/13 21:27, J G Miller wrote:
> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 14:51:08h -0600, John Hasler explained:
>
>> "Tribal" people most definitely have government.
>
> Are there any groups of people living together who do not have
> some form of government?
>
Yes.

> Even anarcho-hippie communes have some type of government, eg
>
>       <http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Freetown_Christiania>
>
I t depends what you mean by 'government'

Consider one hunter gatherer family. Is that a government?

civilisation and government as we know it is a system to organise large 
groups of people in specialised roles. That's only necessary to achieve 
a population density beyond that which a hunter gatherer society can.

Whether it is an advance is a debatable and moot point. Of course once 
you are herding and growing stuff and consider it property, theft 
becomes an issue, and then you need police..and so it goes on.


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#7178

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-02-02 22:49 +0000
Message-ID<kek54u$r99$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7175
On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 22:30:15h +0000,
The Natural Philosopher claimed:

> On 02/02/13 21:27, J G Miller wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 14:51:08h -0600, John Hasler explained:
>>
>>> "Tribal" people most definitely have government.
>>
>> Are there any groups of people living together who do not have
>> some form of government?
>>
> Yes.

Details please?

> Consider one hunter gatherer family. Is that a government?

No, but once the size grows to an extended family and then
a clan and a tribe, clearly the head of the family, clan,
tribe is the leader of the government.

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#7180

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-02-03 00:45 +0000
Message-ID<kekbv7$p8s$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#7178
On 02/02/13 22:49, J G Miller wrote:
> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 22:30:15h +0000,
> The Natural Philosopher claimed:
>
>> On 02/02/13 21:27, J G Miller wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 14:51:08h -0600, John Hasler explained:
>>>
>>>> "Tribal" people most definitely have government.
>>>
>>> Are there any groups of people living together who do not have
>>> some form of government?
>>>
>> Yes.
>
> Details please?
>
>> Consider one hunter gatherer family. Is that a government?
>
> No, but once the size grows to an extended family and then
> a clan and a tribe, clearly the head of the family, clan,
> tribe is the leader of the government.
>
Only if you say so.,

I've not seen much evidence of it in e.g. the Kalahari bushmen or the 
RWandan pygmies.

OK they nominally 'belong' to some one elses 'country' but there is not 
much evidence of it on the ground.,



-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#7181

Fromcipher <cipher@nospamforme.org>
Date2013-02-03 00:52 +0000
Message-ID<6ah1tb.lml.17.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#7180
On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 00:45:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher Inscribed upon
the Golden Tablets of Usenet thusly:

> On 02/02/13 22:49, J G Miller wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 22:30:15h +0000,
>> The Natural Philosopher claimed:
>>
>>> On 02/02/13 21:27, J G Miller wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 14:51:08h -0600, John Hasler
>>>> explained:
>>>>
>>>>> "Tribal" people most definitely have government.
>>>>
>>>> Are there any groups of people living together who do not have some
>>>> form of government?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>> Details please?
>>
>>> Consider one hunter gatherer family. Is that a government?
>>
>> No, but once the size grows to an extended family and then a clan and a
>> tribe, clearly the head of the family, clan, tribe is the leader of the
>> government.
>>
> Only if you say so.,
> 
> I've not seen much evidence of it in e.g. the Kalahari bushmen or the
> RWandan pygmies.
> 
> OK they nominally 'belong' to some one elses 'country' but there is not
> much evidence of it on the ground.,

But on a local level, there is organization, there is a leader.  There 
are rules even amongst bushmen and penalties for disregarding them.  that 
is government, the act of governing human beings.  Hopefully by mutual 
consent but that is rare in today's world and getting rarer...



-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 )\ (  ) /(    Cipher/Proud Member, Netscum Alumni Association
 )-(0^^0)-(    Bungmunch U./AHM Memorial Institute of F@x0r1n6/Dean
 )/ \\// \(    Colonel/1st Virginia Volunteers/CeSium Brigade
    (oo)       Registered Linux User #556617
   / ~~ \      Empire of APDD/#6-5p07/VLNOC Cohort #1407
 o@o     o@o   Keeper of the alt.CeSium FAQ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#7182

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-02-03 11:01 +0000
Message-ID<kelg2i$q1c$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#7181
On 03/02/13 00:52, cipher wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 00:45:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher Inscribed upon
> the Golden Tablets of Usenet thusly:
>
>> On 02/02/13 22:49, J G Miller wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 22:30:15h +0000,
>>> The Natural Philosopher claimed:
>>>
>>>> On 02/02/13 21:27, J G Miller wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, February 2nd, 2013, at 14:51:08h -0600, John Hasler
>>>>> explained:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tribal" people most definitely have government.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any groups of people living together who do not have some
>>>>> form of government?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> Details please?
>>>
>>>> Consider one hunter gatherer family. Is that a government?
>>>
>>> No, but once the size grows to an extended family and then a clan and a
>>> tribe, clearly the head of the family, clan, tribe is the leader of the
>>> government.
>>>
>> Only if you say so.,
>>
>> I've not seen much evidence of it in e.g. the Kalahari bushmen or the
>> RWandan pygmies.
>>
>> OK they nominally 'belong' to some one elses 'country' but there is not
>> much evidence of it on the ground.,
>
> But on a local level, there is organization, there is a leader.  There
> are rules even amongst bushmen and penalties for disregarding them.  that
> is government, the act of governing human beings.  Hopefully by mutual
> consent but that is rare in today's world and getting rarer...
>
I think you should give examples of that.

Rather than blandly asserting it.

>
>


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#7186

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-02-03 13:15 +0000
Message-ID<kelnu1$9u1$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7182
On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:01:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Rather than blandly asserting it.

According to <http://www.wisegeek.COM/who-are-the-bushmen.htm>

QUOTE

    Among a Bushmen tribe, there is no main leader or chief —
    *the group is governed by consensus*. 

    Generally, there is gender equality, and children are valued and
    treated well. Childbearing typically begins after 18, and women
    only have as many children as they are able to carry and feed at one time.

    As with many other indigenous people, the Bushmen have suffered at
    the hands of outsiders.

    When the British arrived in Africa, they wanted to bring “civilization”
    to the indigenous people, and encouraged them to lead a more agricultural
    life.

    In many areas, their “wildness” prompted exterminations, often at the
    bidding of the government. Bushmen of the Cape (of Good Hope) were killed
    to extinction by the 1870s, and a count in 2001 in Botswana put their
    numbers at fewer than 2,000. Continent-wide, there are fewer than
    100,000 Bushmen left.

    As late as 1936, the government of Namibia was still issuing licenses to
    hunt and kill them. 

UNQUOTE

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#7187

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-02-03 13:20 +0000
Message-ID<kelo6d$dq7$3@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#7186
On 03/02/13 13:15, J G Miller wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:01:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Rather than blandly asserting it.
>
> According to <http://www.wisegeek.COM/who-are-the-bushmen.htm>
>
> QUOTE
>
>      Among a Bushmen tribe, there is no main leader or chief —
>      *the group is governed by consensus*.

which is NOT government.

>


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#7189

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-02-03 15:08 +0000
Message-ID<kelui2$ov4$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7187
On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 13:20:14h +0000,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/02/13 13:15, J G Miller wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:01:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Rather than blandly asserting it.
>>
>> According to <http://www.wisegeek.COM/who-are-the-bushmen.htm>
>>
>> QUOTE
>>
>>      Among a Bushmen tribe, there is no main leader or chief —
>>      *the group is governed by consensus*.
> 
> which is NOT government.

Whether you consider it to be government or not, it is by definition
a form of government.

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#7201

Fromcipher <cipher@nospamforme.org>
Date2013-02-05 10:22 +0000
Message-ID<6anc26.qeg.19.3@news.alt.net>
In reply to#7189
On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:08:50 +0000, J G Miller Inscribed upon the Golden
Tablets of Usenet thusly:

> On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 13:20:14h +0000,
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 03/02/13 13:15, J G Miller wrote:
>>> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:01:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rather than blandly asserting it.
>>>
>>> According to <http://www.wisegeek.COM/who-are-the-bushmen.htm>
>>>
>>> QUOTE
>>>
>>>      Among a Bushmen tribe, there is no main leader or chief —
>>>      *the group is governed by consensus*.
>> 
>> which is NOT government.
> 
> Whether you consider it to be government or not, it is by definition a
> form of government.

Amen!  "government" is not so narrowly defined as to mean some formal 
organized body.  It certainly doesn't require elections.  Or the will of 
the people.  If a single man makes the law, arbitrary or not, he *is* the 
governor, and hence the government.

2. the system or form by which a community, etc, is ruled: tyrannical 
government.

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009  

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 )\ (  ) /(    Cipher/Proud Member, Netscum Alumni Association
 )-(0^^0)-(    Bungmunch U./AHM Memorial Institute of F@x0r1n6/Dean
 )/ \\// \(    Colonel/1st Virginia Volunteers/CeSium Brigade
    (oo)       Registered Linux User #556617
   / ~~ \      Empire of APDD/#6-5p07/VLNOC Cohort #1407
 o@o     o@o   Keeper of the alt.CeSium FAQ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#7203

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-02-05 15:20 +0000
Message-ID<ker7ut$r6o$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7201
On Tuesday, February 5th, 2013, at 10:22:28h +0000, Cipher explained:

> If a single man makes the law, arbitrary or not, he *is* the 
> governor, and hence the government.

That would be Napoleon.  ;)

He even wrote the law -- the Napoleonic code, which much
of western Europe still follows in varying degrees today.

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#7205

Fromunruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2013-02-05 17:22 +0000
Message-ID<jdbQs.54499$O02.33751@newsfe18.iad>
In reply to#7201
On 2013-02-05, cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:08:50 +0000, J G Miller Inscribed upon the Golden
> Tablets of Usenet thusly:
>
>> On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 13:20:14h +0000,
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 03/02/13 13:15, J G Miller wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:01:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rather than blandly asserting it.
>>>>
>>>> According to <http://www.wisegeek.COM/who-are-the-bushmen.htm>
>>>>
>>>> QUOTE
>>>>
>>>>      Among a Bushmen tribe, there is no main leader or chief ???
>>>>      *the group is governed by consensus*.
>>> 
>>> which is NOT government.
>> 
>> Whether you consider it to be government or not, it is by definition a
>> form of government.
>
> Amen!  "government" is not so narrowly defined as to mean some formal 
> organized body.  It certainly doesn't require elections.  Or the will of 
> the people.  If a single man makes the law, arbitrary or not, he *is* the 
> governor, and hence the government.

So lets broaden the definition so far that it is impossible not to fall
under it. Then you can say all men/women live under governement, and you
statements become true but utterly meaningless. 

>
> 2. the system or form by which a community, etc, is ruled: tyrannical 
> government.
>
> Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
> 2009 ?? William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 ?? HarperCollins
> Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009  
>

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#7206

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-02-05 17:59 +0000
Message-ID<kerh9r$9r6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7205
On Tuesday, February 5th, 2013, at 17:22:23h +0000, UnRuh wrote:

> So lets broaden the definition so far that it is impossible not to fall
> under it. Then you can say all men/women live under governement, and you
> statements become true but utterly meaningless. 

Not unless they are living as hermits.

Even within families there is a type of government; why else
the term "head of the family/household"?

And no matter where the aliens land, they always command

       "Take me to your leader!"

-- 

   "An accelerating observer will observe black-body radiation
    where an inertial observer would observe none."

    -- The Unruh Effect
   

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#7207

Fromunruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2013-02-05 19:40 +0000
Message-ID<kedQs.68785$j95.44109@newsfe31.iad>
In reply to#7206
On 2013-02-05, J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 5th, 2013, at 17:22:23h +0000, UnRuh wrote:
>
>> So lets broaden the definition so far that it is impossible not to fall
>> under it. Then you can say all men/women live under governement, and you
>> statements become true but utterly meaningless. 
>
> Not unless they are living as hermits.
>
> Even within families there is a type of government; why else
> the term "head of the family/household"?

As I said, the definition of government is broadedned so far as to
become meaningless. 
Why not say even individuals have government since the brain sends out
signals to the rest of the body which they then usually obey.
Or even bacterial cells (the DNA) or even rocks (gravity). That way we
can make sure that when one talks about government one is not saying
anything. 



>
> And no matter where the aliens land, they always command
>
>        "Take me to your leader!"

Yes, movies I guess are our definition of the world these days. 
>

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#7208

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2013-02-05 14:17 -0600
Message-ID<87txpq1po5.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#7207
unruh writes:
> As I said, the definition of government is broadedned so far as to
> become meaningless.

How do you define it?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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