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Old geeks and thread drift

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  Old geeks and thread drift Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-03 05:31 -0700
    Re: Old geeks and thread drift c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 10:37 -0400
    Re: Old geeks and thread drift Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-04-03 14:45 +0000
      Re: Old geeks and thread drift Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2026-04-03 16:05 +0000
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 14:27 -0400
          Re: Old geeks and thread drift Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-04-03 19:29 +0000
            Re: Old geeks and thread drift "Rinaldi J. Montessi" <rinaldij@alien.free> - 2026-04-03 15:07 -0500
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:48 +0000
          Re: Old geeks and thread drift Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-04 07:14 +0200
            Re: Old geeks and thread drift Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 05:29 +0000
      Re: Old geeks and thread drift Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-03 18:10 +0000
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:50 +0000
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-04 05:55 -0700
          Re: Old geeks and thread drift Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:10 +0000
            Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-04-04 14:21 +0000
              Re: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift) Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2026-04-04 15:57 +0000
                Re: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-04 14:00 -0700
                  Re: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 22:17 +0000
                    Re: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-05 10:42 -0700
                      Wayland vs. X11 (Was: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-04-05 18:28 +0000
                  Re: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-05 04:02 +0200
                    Re: Top posting Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-05 10:00 +0100
                  Re: Top posting Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-04-05 12:41 +0000
          Re: Old geeks and thread drift rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 18:43 +0000
      Re: Old geeks and thread drift "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:20 +0200
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-04 07:16 +1000
          Re: Old geeks and thread drift Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-04-04 21:12 +1100
            Re: Old geeks and thread drift The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-04 13:22 +0100
      Unix-ness of Windows NT (was: Re: Old geeks and thread drift) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-04 00:18 +0100
        Re: Unix-ness of Windows NT Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-04-04 14:41 +0100
      Re: Old geeks and thread drift "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-04 18:52 +0200
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-04-04 18:10 +0100
          Re: Old geeks and thread drift "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-04 22:14 +0200
        Re: Old geeks and thread drift Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-04 13:14 -0700
      Re: Old geeks and thread drift Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-04-05 12:26 +0000

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#85397 — Re: Top posting (Was: Old geeks and thread drift)

On 2026-04-04 23:00, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-04-04 08:57, Adison Vohn Caterson wrote:
>> On 2026-04-04, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:


> My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom-
> posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
> that level of "previous" had been snipped.
> 
> /slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click 
> through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded URL.

Terminal clients like Alpine allow "clicking" on an URL (actually, 
pressing [enter] on it), and then call a terminal web browser to display it.


> 
> The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal 
> program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a browser 
> address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.
> 
> I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to read 
> News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH to get 
> into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only read when I 
> am at my desktop at home.
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#85409 — Re: Top posting

On 2026-04-05, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2026-04-04 23:00, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-04-04 08:57, Adison Vohn Caterson wrote:
>>> On 2026-04-04, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>
>
>> My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom-
>> posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
>> that level of "previous" had been snipped.
>>
>> /slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click
>> through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded
>> URL.
>
> Terminal clients like Alpine allow "clicking" on an URL (actually,
> pressing [enter] on it), and then call a terminal web browser to
> display it.
>
>
>>
>> The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal
>> program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a
>> browser address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.
>>
>> I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to
>> read News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH
>> to get into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only
>> read when I am at my desktop at home.
>>

GNU Emacs (which might not be desirable, as I see people were discussing
other text editor(s)) does have the advantage it could run both under
X11 and a terminal or terminal emulator, meaning you could get X11
features locally or over X11 forwarding and at the same time be able to
use it in a tty-like device; also server-mode makes it easier to open
separate Emacs instances all on the same "Emacs session".

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#85418 — Re: Top posting

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
[...]
> My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom-
> posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
> that level of "previous" had been snipped.
> 
> /slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click 
> through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded URL.

  Doesn't slrn have a (keyboard key) *command* to display the parent
article?

  In my newsreader - tin -, I just press the 'u' key ('u'p the thread)
to display the parent article. (I would be surprised if slrn doesn't
offer similar functionality.)

> The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal 
> program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a browser 
> address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.

  As a workaround/hack, you could append the message-id from the
References; header to https://newsgrouper.org/ in your brwowser, i.e.
for your article:

https://newsgrouper.org/<10qru66$v684$2@dont-email.me>

which your browser will turn into:

https://newsgrouper.org/%3C10qru66$v684$2@dont-email.me%3E

  N.B. newsgrouper.org is an alternative for the no longer functioning
(or at least not functioning very well) http://al.howardknight.net/
site.

> I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to read 
> News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH to get 
> into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only read when I 
> am at my desktop at home.

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#85382

On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 05:55:07 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>>    BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting
>>>    endless
>>> cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
>>> hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
>>> adding only a few lines of new text.
> 
>> And then using that as a justification for top-posting.  Grrr...
> 
> TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using. ThunderBird
> makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

When I use slrn the editor is gVim. G puts you at the bottom of the page. 
Next to impossible?

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#85309

On 2026-04-03 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]
> 
> Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
>> I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
>> these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and
>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
>> for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
>> which I also do occasionally need them.
>>
>> I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to
>> alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
>> change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
>> to what the subject line says.
> 
>    I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
> audience, have to move to a Unix group.

It is an empty group, there were no messages there for years. Just a 
convenient place by agreement, instead of creating a new group.

> 
>    Anyway, moving threads to another group hardly ever - if ever - works.

It does, albeit slowly :-)

...

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#85316

In comp.os.linux.misc Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-04-03 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> [Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]
>> Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
>>> I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
>>> these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and
>>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
>>> for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
>>> which I also do occasionally need them.
>>>
>>> I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to
>>> alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
>>> change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
>>> to what the subject line says.
>> 
>>    I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
>> audience, have to move to a Unix group.
> 
> It is an empty group, there were no messages there for years. Just a 
> convenient place by agreement, instead of creating a new group.

The sad thing is occasionally I peek into the huge threads in
comp.os.linux.misc that I start always marking as read once
they go too OT, and discover about 500 posts down people have
actually started talking about something I'm interested in. Often
I'm subscribed to a group dedicated to that topic which has been
dead for years, but here people _are_ talking about it in a place
I'm unlikely to find, and where I won't reply because it only
commits me to wading through hundreds more OT posts later to find
the responses (plus it's just contributing to the problem for other
people).

At least it would be more organised if such talk was separated from
Linux questions, but it'd be real nice if people actually started
using groups relevent to the topics again. A hopeless dream, I
know.

>>    Anyway, moving threads to another group hardly ever - if ever - works.
> 
> It does, albeit slowly :-)

Although cross-posts from comp.os.linux.misc to the Linux advocacy
group a little while back only added a whole lot more noise coming
back in the other direction for a time, from my perspective. At
least an empty group is low-risk for that, although expecting
Windows 11 users to post to a Unix group seems like quite a
stretch.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#85345

On 4/04/2026 8:16 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-04-03 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:

<Snip>

>>>     I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
>>> audience, have to move to a Unix group.
>>
>> It is an empty group, there were no messages there for years. Just a
>> convenient place by agreement, instead of creating a new group.
> 
> The sad thing is occasionally I peek into the huge threads in
> comp.os.linux.misc that I start always marking as read once
> they go too OT, and discover about 500 posts down people have
> actually started talking about something I'm interested in. Often
> I'm subscribed to a group dedicated to that topic which has been
> dead for years, but here people _are_ talking about it in a place
> I'm unlikely to find, and where I won't reply because it only
> commits me to wading through hundreds more OT posts later to find
> the responses (plus it's just contributing to the problem for other
> people).
> 
> At least it would be more organised if such talk was separated from
> Linux questions, but it'd be real nice if people actually started
> using groups relevent to the topics again. A hopeless dream, I
> know.

"A hopeless dream' .... as long as no one tries to MAKE IT happen!!

Sure, you're NOT everyone's keeper but you ARE one persons keeper!!
-- 
Daniel70

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#85350

On 04/04/2026 11:12, Daniel70 wrote:
>>
>> At least it would be more organised if such talk was separated from
>> Linux questions, but it'd be real nice if people actually started
>> using groups relevent to the topics again. A hopeless dream, I
>> know.
> 
> "A hopeless dream' .... as long as no one tries to MAKE IT happen!!
> 
> Sure, you're NOT everyone's keeper but you ARE one persons keeper!!
In my 40 years of Usenet, the number of people who have tried to make it 
match their wants by forcing other people to amend their behaviour, 
rather than just getting on with life comfortably exceeds those whose 
posts are so rubbish I have to killfile them, or the thread.

Let's face it mostly of you have a problem its more likely to be solved 
by a web search than positing here.

It's random chat by linux geeks. Get used it it or move on.

-- 
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that 
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that 
don't protect,  masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

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#85322 — Unix-ness of Windows NT (was: Re: Old geeks and thread drift)

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> [Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]
>
> Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
>> I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of 
>> these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and 
>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable 
>> for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for 
>> which I also do occasionally need them.
>> 
>> I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to 
>> alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would 
>> change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated 
>> to what the subject line says.
>
>   I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
> audience, have to move to a Unix group.

I can't help but recall that Windows NT does (or at least did) come out
of the box with a partial POSIX subsystem :-P

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#85356 — Re: Unix-ness of Windows NT

Nuno Silva wrote:

> I can't help but recall that Windows NT does (or at least did) come out
> of the box with a partial POSIX subsystem :-P

Partial being the operative word ...

<https://youtu.be/BOeku3hDzrM>

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#85370

Restoring groups.

On 2026-04-04 16:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]
>>
>> <<snipped>>
>>
>>> pee
>>
>> <<snipped>>
>>
>>   Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
>> post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
>> sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is
>> referring to.
> 
>    Well, those people should get a *real* newsreader! :-)
> 
>    BTW, I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
> function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
> display the parent post.

Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to 
visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is 
impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post 
by post, going backwards.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#85373

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
>> function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
>> display the parent post.
> 
> Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to 
> visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is 
> impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post 
> by post, going backwards.
There *is* a way ...

If you have Compact Headers add-on, you need to expand the twisty, so 
you can see the References: header

Then click the rightmost reference link, which is always the parent.

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#85388

On 2026-04-04 19:10, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
>>> function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
>>> display the parent post.
>>
>> Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to 
>> visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is 
>> impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post 
>> by post, going backwards.
> There *is* a way ...
> 
> If you have Compact Headers add-on, you need to expand the twisty, so 
> you can see the References: header
> 
> Then click the rightmost reference link, which is always the parent.

Ah.


Alt-View-Headers → All.

In your message, there is an "In reply to" header. Click on it.

Or "References", show all, go to the last one, click on it.


Always learning new things... :-)


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#85387

On 4/4/26 09:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
> Restoring groups.
> 
> On 2026-04-04 16:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>> On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]
>>>
>>> <<snipped>>
>>>
>>>> pee
>>>
>>> <<snipped>>
>>>
>>>   Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
>>> post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
>>> sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is
>>> referring to.
>>
>>    Well, those people should get a *real* newsreader! :-)
>>
>>    BTW, I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
>> function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
>> display the parent post.
> 
> Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to 
> visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is 
> impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post 
> by post, going backwards.
> 
> 
	I had a problem the other night with Tb and an overly long thread.
I shut off the 'return to previous session' choice in my Desktop Manager
and that fixed it very well.  Then having fixed the problem I turned it
back on after rebooting.

	It is very big PIA and I hope that Thunderbird coders to which it was
reported by its own software can fix it.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.03- Linux 6.12.80 pclos1- KDE 
Plasma 6.6.3

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#85417

[Newsgroups restored. Sigh! No, not your fault, Jukka.]

Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:
> 
> > The WORST being bottom-posters who don't snip, requiring the reader to 
> > scroll down several hundred lines to find ANY original material.
> 
> Generally, if I don't see any fresh input in the first two screenfuls of
> text, I press n to move to the next article.
> Anybody worth reading don't quote two screenfuls before commenting it.

  Well, alt.comp.os.windows-11 has several posters "worth reading", who
rather regularly commit said offense, while they *do* know The Right Way
(TM), because they often do it that way.

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