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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 601 — 42 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-10-19 17:18 -0300
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Helmut Waitzmann <nn.throttle@erine.email> - 2026-10-21 00:54 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-23 18:50 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 23:59 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 11:53 +0200
Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-24 12:10 +0000
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
[OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:49 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-31 13:11 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:53 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 22:41 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:31 +0100
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-11-01 20:50 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:18 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) FF <fflud@linux.rocks> - 2026-11-01 18:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:32 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:26 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 02:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:22 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:24 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:28 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:36 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:29 +0000
Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-01 01:08 +0000
Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:03 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-11-01 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:27 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:57 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:07 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:32 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:35 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:22 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 03:02 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:50 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:28 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:18 -0500
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:31 +0100
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:49 -0800
Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-11-02 17:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:25 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:42 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
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Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:35 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:18 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 12:12 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 13:43 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:37 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 09:07 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 13:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:04 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-16 23:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:54 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:58 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "De ongekruisigde ds." <ongekruisigde-ds@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <20261102135002.00005bcb@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #94953 |
On 2 Nov 2026 20:27:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > > And on top of that, the Rainbow was a dud: more expensive than the > > IBM PC for similar specs with only somewhat more flexible graphics > > and CP/M compatibility as its advantages. The Professional at least > > offered one of DEC's own architecture, but it was over *twice* the > > price of the PC. > > It wasn't fatal but IBM's RS/6000 had the same problem. The Y2K > patches were only for newer systems. Our clients looked at the cost > of replacing their existing machines and switched to PCs. Windows > 2000 Server came at just the right time. The whole "workstation" class was vulnerable to this; the assumption that business customers with a need for personal computers would pay kilobucks to get the Best Of The Best got shakier and shakier as the vendors' technical/performance lead was eroded by Intel's dogged per- sistence and Apple's piggybacking off IBM & Motorola's own R&D efforts and the commerical Unix vendors tried with decidedly mixed success to follow changing preferences in UI design, 'til it finally completely imploded sometime in the mid-'00s. (In particular, only NeXT and SGI showed any understanding of what separates a technically-functional GUI environment from a genuinely *nice* one, whereas MacOS had one from the get-go and MS had more-or- less gotten the wrinkles ironed out by Win95; unless their employees truly needed bleeding-edge performance or one of the increasingly rare *nix-only software suites for line-of-business purposes, why on Earth would a company drop $$$ for Tru64/AIX/Solaris/HP-UX with CDE on top when they could get the job done with a PC or Mac for $$ and get a less grody user experience into the bargain?)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ypmdndD4s-uIoXT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94954 |
On 11/2/26 16:50, John Ames wrote: > On 2 Nov 2026 20:27:24 GMT > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >>> And on top of that, the Rainbow was a dud: more expensive than the >>> IBM PC for similar specs with only somewhat more flexible graphics >>> and CP/M compatibility as its advantages. The Professional at least >>> offered one of DEC's own architecture, but it was over *twice* the >>> price of the PC. >> >> It wasn't fatal but IBM's RS/6000 had the same problem. The Y2K >> patches were only for newer systems. Our clients looked at the cost >> of replacing their existing machines and switched to PCs. Windows >> 2000 Server came at just the right time. > > The whole "workstation" class was vulnerable to this; the assumption > that business customers with a need for personal computers would pay > kilobucks to get the Best Of The Best got shakier and shakier as the > vendors' technical/performance lead was eroded by Intel's dogged per- > sistence and Apple's piggybacking off IBM & Motorola's own R&D efforts > and the commerical Unix vendors tried with decidedly mixed success to > follow changing preferences in UI design, 'til it finally completely > imploded sometime in the mid-'00s. Sometimes attributed to Stalin - "Quantity has a quality all of its own". If you can buy a bunch of 'regular PCs' for the price of one, or even just upgrading one, flagship box from DEC or IBM or whomever ..... > (In particular, only NeXT and SGI showed any understanding of what > separates a technically-functional GUI environment from a genuinely > *nice* one, whereas MacOS had one from the get-go and MS had more-or- > less gotten the wrinkles ironed out by Win95; unless their employees > truly needed bleeding-edge performance or one of the increasingly rare > *nix-only software suites for line-of-business purposes, why on Earth > would a company drop $$$ for Tru64/AIX/Solaris/HP-UX with CDE on top > when they could get the job done with a PC or Mac for $$ and get a less > grody user experience into the bargain?) Small/medium "business" usually doesn't NEED expensive "cutting edge" boxes. They need usable boxes for all the staff, few perks, little flair, just a step above a terminal. Now with Linux, your 'regular' box can PERFORM like an expensive server ..... Liked ASUS boards with decent i5's ... made great and reliable servers. I/O, well, didn't matter HOW fast the box was, it was only gonna push just SO much over the wires. That, not CPU, was the main limiting issue. An i9 wasn't gonna deliver files ANY faster. Only ONE guy had a box with an extra good video card - mostly because he did our GIS stuff.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <FSbGS.128745$Gau3.91431@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #94968 |
On 2026-11-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Small/medium "business" usually doesn't NEED expensive > "cutting edge" boxes. They need usable boxes for all > the staff, few perks, little flair, just a step above > a terminal. I always loved the way people expressed this as "bleeding edge". > Only ONE guy had a box with an extra good video > card - mostly because he did our GIS stuff. When a PPOE got their first personal computers (XT clones at $5K a pop) they ordered CGA for all of them. Once they realized what a dog CGA was performance-wise (a good typist could keep a word ahead of what a word processor was displaying on the screen), they reverted to Hercules cards - except for the one machine in engineering that really needed the graphics capability. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <m4hGS.16006$mbb2.2991@fx03.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94954 |
On 11/3/2026 5:50 AM, John Ames wrote: > The whole "workstation" class was vulnerable to this; the assumption > that business customers with a need for personal computers would pay > kilobucks to get the Best Of The Best got shakier and shakier as the > vendors' technical/performance lead was eroded by Intel's dogged per- > sistence and Apple's piggybacking off IBM & Motorola's own R&D efforts > and the commerical Unix vendors tried with decidedly mixed success to > follow changing preferences in UI design, 'til it finally completely > imploded sometime in the mid-'00s. Nowadays, nobody cares about /usability/ nor /learnability/. All the hard work that culminated in the 90s knowledge of how user interfaces should be designed is now gone. But it's /new & shiny/ with fancy graphics? No, not since they started to make everything /flat/. Now the competition seems to be who can make the flatter and boring user interface, with more and more hidden feat- ures, because who wants to do useful things in a computer, or a website, or a phone? Thank you for coming to my alt.folklore.computers rant! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cc6ml$3ino6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94995 |
On 03/11/2026 08:38, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > Now the competition seems to be who can make > the flatter and boring user interface, with more and more hidden feat- > ures, because who wants to do useful things in a computer, or a website, > or a phone? Certainly not the 'creatives' hired to design the GUI. But even ArtStudents™ need their cocaine money... -- "If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the news paper, you are mis-informed." Mark Twain
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <ayudnc43iJgfVXr3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94882 |
On 11/1/26 05:16, Thomas Koenig wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb: >> On 10/31/26 17:38, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2026 11:07:47 -0400, jayjwa wrote: >>> >>>> The DEC systems are more fun, have better docs, and much more >>>> software. >>> >>> If you look at all the vintage docs collected at Bitsavers, out of >>> (currently) about 660GB in total, over 40% is from DEC. Number 2 is >>> IBM, but the DEC collection is bigger by nearly 3:1. >>> >>> Number 3 is CDC, at about a quarter of the size of the IBM collection. >> >> The DEC boxes were GREAT ! >> >> Not entirely sure why they went out of biz - likely >> idiot management. Daddy builds it, Junior TRASHES it. > > Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible > for both). Developed giant coke habit maybe ? ;-) > If you are interested, you could look up "DEC is Dead, Long Live > DEC", an excellent book. > >> Still wish someone would modernize VMS - it was a >> fantastic/powerful system with a ton of prescient >> modern features - could do international internet >> before there WAS an internet. > > Somebody is trying to do so (see https://vmssoftware.com/) but > that particular train has left the station a long time ago. Alas, probably so. It'd take too many fix-ups now to go 'modern', to be a rival to Linux/UNIX. But it was damned good in its day. Anyway, as for 'wealth' the complete usual rule is : GrandPa makes it, Junior cruises on it and the grandkids BLOW it all. No ancient titled families in the USA - no barons, ducs and earls - money comes, and goes.
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| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c8mg3$2e89e$2@kst.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #94906 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
> On 11/1/26 05:16, Thomas Koenig wrote:
[...]
>> Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible
>> for both).
>
> Developed giant coke habit maybe ? ;-)
Do you have some basis for this? If it's a joke (yes, I see the
smiley), I fail to see the humor.
[...]
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <_ZucnafJTvBFc3r3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94908 |
On 11/1/26 19:45, Keith Thompson wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: >> On 11/1/26 05:16, Thomas Koenig wrote: > [...] >>> Daddy built it, daddy trashed it (Ken Olsen, he was responsible >>> for both). >> >> Developed giant coke habit maybe ? ;-) > > Do you have some basis for this? If it's a joke (yes, I see the > smiley), I fail to see the humor. > > [...] > Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times :-) Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history suddenly crashes and burns ......
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11c8rq9$1e6t$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #94911 |
According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: > Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times :-) > > Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp > with good history suddenly crashes and burns ...... Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't either. Gordon Bell wrote this afterword for the "DEC is Dead" book which explains it well. https://gordonbell.azurewebsites.net/CGB%20Files/DEC_Is_Dead_Bell_Appendix_Schein_Book.pdf -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkqj0vFftq4U8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94912 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 02:16:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: > According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times >> >> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history >> suddenly crashes and burns ...... > > Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of > microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's > management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't > either. The Rainbow was interesting. Almost, but not quite, compatible with PCs. The proprietary diskettes at $5 a pop didn't go over well either. Olsen's belief that people didn't need or want a home computer wasn't unique in that era. Ward Christensen of xmodem fame worked for IBM. Famously he sent a memo up the chain of command saying IBM should look into microcomputers. The reply was there was no market for them but if he wanted to screw around with them on his own time feel free. We contracted to supply cable assemblies to DEC in Augusta ME in the '70s. Their QA was quite demanding but we could pass inspection. Then they gave the contract to the Passamaquoddy tribe. I don't know how that turned out.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <URVFS.20180$1WK1.4115@fx14.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94914 |
On 11/2/2026 12:48 PM, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 02:16:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: > >> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times >>> >>> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history >>> suddenly crashes and burns ...... >> >> Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of >> microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's >> management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't >> either. > > The Rainbow was interesting. Almost, but not quite, compatible with PCs. > The proprietary diskettes at $5 a pop didn't go over well either. > > Olsen's belief that people didn't need or want a home computer wasn't > unique in that era. Ward Christensen of xmodem fame worked for IBM. > Famously he sent a memo up the chain of command saying IBM should look > into microcomputers. The reply was there was no market for them but if he > wanted to screw around with them on his own time feel free. > > We contracted to supply cable assemblies to DEC in Augusta ME in the '70s. > Their QA was quite demanding but we could pass inspection. Then they gave > the contract to the Passamaquoddy tribe. I don't know how that turned > out. Nobody can prevent someone else from inventing something that changes the business rules from under you. I'm only theorizing here, but I would not be surprised [1] if DOOM sold a lot of home PCs in the early 90s, then Quake even more. Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the rest was just marketing. The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM shouldn't be underestimated. Side note: there's a marketing book called /Guerilla Marketing/ that touches upon this subject. Best wishes, and happy victories in DOOM! [1] And indeed would be surprised it wasn't a significant factor. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nkqpvsFftq4U9@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94916 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant > for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the > rest was just marketing. Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. 2000 was an improvement.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <%Y_FS.30812$Gsmc.9148@fx17.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94918 |
On 11/2/2026 2:47 PM, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > >> Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant >> for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the >> rest was just marketing. > > Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and > business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows > 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 > was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as > a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. > > NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was > carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my > machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. > 2000 was an improvement. That's probably true, but I'll point out that not all /businesses/ are at the enterprise level. Lots and lots of small to medium businesses had DOS, then Windows machines in the 90s. My school had computer labs with Windows 3.1, then '95; the LAN was Novell. I wasn't working at place a large enough to have NT machines in the 90s -- and I guess I never have. But most importantly, none of the businesses I was familiar with in the 90s had a VAX or knew what to do with it. But that was Iceland. You can think of Reykjavik back then as a small town in the sticks. DOOM did not come out on VAX -- even today I'm not sure there's a VAX port. [There probably is.] So whatever DEC was doing right in the 90s, not being part of the video game social phenomenon was not it. Best wishes, and happy VAXen! -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nks7oaF2rmsU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94930 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 20:02:01 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > That's probably true, but I'll point out that not all /businesses/ are > at the enterprise level. Lots and lots of small to medium businesses > had DOS, then Windows machines in the 90s. For that matter many small businesses used CP/M. The Z-80 Soft Card came about because of the lack of business software for the Apple II. Slip in the card, run CP/M and you were all set. There was a used book store in Tucson, iirc, that was still using a carefully preserved KayPro in the mid-90s. When I asked him about it his classic reply was 'It does what I need it to do.'
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <Bc3GS.155664$DBw4.42536@fx24.iad> |
| In reply to | #94918 |
On 2026-11-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was > carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my > machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. Some of our NT customers started reporting intermittent crashes. They were caused by a program of mine that used DDEML for inter-program communication. The whole box would die, which we thought was novel for an operating system that was supposed to be unkillable (at least in comparison with 95/98). I never did find a way to make DDEML run reliably, although I did manage to "improve" my program so that it would take down NT immediately rather than intermittently. I think I still have it around somewhere, under the name "NTkiller". Since DDEML proved unusable for interprocess communication, I tried various other methods, from shared memory to WM_COPYDATA messages. Eventually I went to sockets, where I happily am today. (I love being able to test my programs with telnet.) > 2000 was an improvement. IMHO Windows' usability peaked somewhere between 2000 and XP, and has been going downhill ever since. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nks91hF2rmsU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94939 |
On Mon, 02 Nov 2026 16:51:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Since DDEML proved unusable for interprocess communication, I tried > various other methods, from shared memory to WM_COPYDATA messages. > Eventually I went to sockets, where I happily am today. (I love being > able to test my programs with telnet.) We used shared memory and message queues but that was with the NutCracker runtime that provided POSIX capabilities on Windows. At one point I looked at MSMQ but it was heavy compared to POSIX. I've played around with MQTT and it reminds me of the MS version.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 17:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11ehgvq.crh.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #94918 |
On 2026-11-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > >> Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant >> for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the >> rest was just marketing. > > Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and > business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows > 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 > was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as > a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. > > NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was > carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my > machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. > 2000 was an improvement. Ahhh, yes, the days of Windows CE, ME, and NT--along with the rumored effort to merge them into Windows CEMENT, "As hard as a rock and dumb as a brick": https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/2utm7b/windows_cement/ -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:25 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <Yl-dnQspyPV1qnT3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94945 |
On 11/2/26 12:10, Robert Riches wrote: > On 2026-11-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 14:13:06 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> >>> Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant >>> for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the >>> rest was just marketing. >> >> Enterprises use NT. It wasn't until Windows XP that the the consumer and >> business branches were merged. NT 4.0 used the Windows 95 UX but Windows >> 2000 brought in more features from the consumer lines. I don't think 2000 >> was marketed in the consumer market. The lucky consumers got Windows Me as >> a consolation prize since the XP project was moving slowly. >> >> NT 4.0 was the last release to be called NT but the numbering scheme was >> carried on so Windows 11 is NT 10.0 formally. It might have been my >> machine but NT 4.0 usually greeted my with the BSOD on Monday morning. >> 2000 was an improvement. > > Ahhh, yes, the days of Windows CE, ME, and NT--along with the > rumored effort to merge them into Windows CEMENT, "As hard as a > rock and dumb as a brick": > > https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/2utm7b/windows_cement/ Mostly true alas :-) Did kinda like Win2k - a slightly spiffed version of NT. Used it for years. Have it as a VM somewhere. Winders, despite corporate claims, has been a cesspool of old code/ideas and they keep making it WORSE. The 'new and improved' security shit was the final nail so far as I was concerned, it became kind of unusable for a variety of purposes. WinServer ... not nearly as great as advertised. If you want scary, check their 'security' notices. ENDLESS flaws - a lot seem to be due to un-improved code from the 90s, easy buffer overflows. They'll only fix the EXACT problem when it arises, leaving 9999 still to come. UNIX/Linux was always the Better Idea. Moved all my servers, even personal desktop, over to that as soon as practical (like when Linux came on a bunch of floppies). Unfortunately the rest of the staff just could NOT give up their wunnerful Winders - so had to DEAL with all the bullshit for decades. Only ONE other guy there who liked Linux - but he wasn't good enough to take over as IT Guy. NEW IT Guy - went Full M$ ...... oh well, not my problem anymore. Wait until Kim makes all that go away .........
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <AtacnS7M6ejHzXX3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94916 |
On 11/2/26 01:13, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > On 11/2/2026 12:48 PM, rbowman wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Nov 2026 02:16:41 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote: >> >>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> Umm ... NOT so unusual for the times >>>> >>>> Gotta wonder. Big powerful cutting-edge corp with good history >>>> suddenly crashes and burns ...... >>> >>> Sheesh, it's not like it's hard to find out what happened. The world of >>> microprocessors was different from the world of minicomputers, DEC's >>> management never figured that out, and its board of directors didn't >>> either. >> >> The Rainbow was interesting. Almost, but not quite, compatible with PCs. >> The proprietary diskettes at $5 a pop didn't go over well either. >> >> Olsen's belief that people didn't need or want a home computer wasn't >> unique in that era. Ward Christensen of xmodem fame worked for IBM. >> Famously he sent a memo up the chain of command saying IBM should look >> into microcomputers. The reply was there was no market for them but if he >> wanted to screw around with them on his own time feel free. >> >> We contracted to supply cable assemblies to DEC in Augusta ME in the >> '70s. >> Their QA was quite demanding but we could pass inspection. Then they gave >> the contract to the Passamaquoddy tribe. I don't know how that turned >> out. > > Nobody can prevent someone else from inventing something that changes > the business rules from under you. I'm only theorizing here, but I > would not be surprised [1] if DOOM sold a lot of home PCs in the early > 90s, then Quake even more. DOOM and DUKE NUKEM were great. QUAKE ... it was mostly BLACK SCREEN shit, why bother having a monitor ??? Still have DUKE stashed away somewhere, runs in DOSBox. Lots of user-created episodes too. For one I had to write a 256 bit binary-2-decimal calculator :-) DOOM-1 ... the droning music and pouncing monsters ... gave me PTSD. Same for a number of people I knew. Got into your head. Heard the mil adapted it for commando training because of that - get the troops KEYED UP. Remember I kept reaching for my "shotgun" when there were sudden events for awhile .... PTSD. D2 didn't do that. > Windows 95 helped, but as far as I understand it, it really was meant > for corporate environments more than the home on the technical side; the > rest was just marketing. > > The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then > gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM > shouldn't be underestimated. It was an important milestone - and boosted the development of a lot of shit. "Games" are, unto themselves, trivial. However the tech/knowledge to do them well drove a lot of tech. A *large* market segment demanded the 'better game computer', so .... NVidia came out of that. Now it's a zillion dollar concern smack in the middle of 'AI'. > Side note: there's a marketing book called /Guerilla Marketing/ that > touches upon this subject. > > > Best wishes, and happy victories in DOOM! > > [1] And indeed would be surprised it wasn't a significant factor.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <C__FS.30813$Gsmc.23289@fx17.ams4> |
| In reply to | #94922 |
On 11/2/2026 4:56 PM, c186282 wrote: >> The social phenomenon of people building their own home computers, then >> gathering together to connect them with a LAN, all in order to play DOOM >> shouldn't be underestimated. > > It was an important milestone - and boosted > the development of a lot of shit. "Games" > are, unto themselves, trivial. However the > tech/knowledge to do them well drove a lot > of tech. A *large* market segment demanded > the 'better game computer', so .... > > NVidia came out of that. Now it's a zillion > dollar concern smack in the middle of 'AI'. And now people are dreaming NVidia will disappear, the way of DEC. Well maybe it /will/ be sold to HP? After all, gamers want their affordable graphics cards back. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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