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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread

Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI

Started byLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
First post2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Last post2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 470 — 31 participants

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Contents

  Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:02 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:43 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:12 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:04 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:24 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:04 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:17 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 17:33 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:26 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:39 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:31 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 00:17 -0400
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:58 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 03:33 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 09:06 -0700
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:37 -0400
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:09 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:16 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:56 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-21 14:23 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 19:14 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:22 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 10:54 -0700
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:07 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 14:02 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 15:17 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:07 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 11:49 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 15:09 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:08 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-22 10:37 -0700
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 19:29 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:04 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-22 02:04 +0000
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:51 +0200
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 14:18 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:15 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-21 17:33 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 02:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:16 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-20 18:26 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 11:46 -0700
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:01 -0700
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:27 +0100
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:23 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-20 18:15 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:27 +0200
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:08 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:18 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-21 03:22 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:25 +0000
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                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 00:47 -0400
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:09 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 19:06 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:09 +0100
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                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 07:08 -0400
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          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000
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                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
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                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:22 +0000
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                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000
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                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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                                Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
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                                    [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
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                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
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                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
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                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
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                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Piergiorgio Sartor <piergiorgio.sartor.this.should.not.be.used@nexgo.REMOVETHIS.de> - 2026-10-18 23:44 +0200
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            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:04 +0100
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        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:29 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:54 -0400
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        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:25 +0100
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#94757 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromDavid LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com>
Date2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<XnsB4F3C606CC1B5hueydlltampabayrrcom@157.180.91.226>
In reply to#94749
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in news:nkesjgF6rc9U1
@mid.individual.net:

> On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 17:01:44 +0100, Josef Möllers wrote:
> 
>> Ah ... yes ... The Olde Times ;-)
>> I started studying CS in 1977 (after two years trying my luck at EE).
>> Indeed, we too had to use punched cards in the beginning.
> 
> The IBM 2260 terminal came out in 1964 but I didn't see one until I 
> interviewed with IBM/Owego in 1968. If there were any in the college they 
> were buried in a cave. 
> 
> I didn't get the job. IBM found my programming aptitude questionable. 

I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later 
with terminals as they became available around campus.  I agree that cards 
or anything low tech makes the developer first think about what they want 
to build and then do so.

I had a slight advantage by the time my parents let me take college level 
computing with a friend at high school.  I started on paper with imaginary 
simple computers via a Saturday morning show on PBS or more likely WGN 
Chicago.  That was much earlier in my life, perhaps Junior High when I was 
also in an elective class to earn my Amateur Radio Novice Licence.  Upon 
earning that and quickly moving to Technician, I became a member of the 
local ARRL Club.  There I met all kinds of electricians, radio and antenna 
experts, and one Advanced class leader with his own antenna farm on his 
farm.  He was doing moon bounce and slow scan TV.  He showed me his latest 
project -- a home built Z80 Computer that booted by flipping switches to 
input the very tiny OS or a simple program.  Now that really helped me form 
my programming and diagnostic capabilities.

Thankfully all the Hams and teachers I met over the years were eager to 
share their knowledge.  I loved teachers from any class that would go 
outside the curriculum and teach students outside class too.  I hated 
students that would interupt a teacher with a question like "Is that going 
to be on the test?".

I loved great teachers and quickly exited the few classes with poor 
teachers.

Starting early classes on any subject with "low tech" helps form the 
student's mind.

Ah the memories of a life well lived.

Thank you to all the teachers who helped us form our minds!

P.S. During those first years on cards for FORTRAN and COBOL a friend and  
I "competed" for solving programs with the least lines, comments excluded.

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#94760 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkfha4F6rc9U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94757
On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 23:28:12 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue wrote:

>  That was much earlier in my life, perhaps Junior High when I was
> also in an elective class to earn my Amateur Radio Novice Licence.  Upon
> earning that and quickly moving to Technician, I became a member of the
> local ARRL Club.  There I met all kinds of electricians, radio and
> antenna experts, and one Advanced class leader with his own antenna farm
> on his farm.  He was doing moon bounce and slow scan TV.  He showed me
> his latest project -- a home built Z80 Computer that booted by flipping
> switches to input the very tiny OS or a simple program.  Now that really
> helped me form my programming and diagnostic capabilities.

The Sputnik launch awakened interest in STEM subjects but computers were 
exotic critters when I was in high school. The IBM System 360/30 was 
released in 1964. RPI had close ties with IBM and iirc had one by 1965. 
That's what I learned FORTRAN IV on. The Z80 was way in the future.

I did eventually get a Amateur Radio license. I'm stubborn enough to keep 
my Advanced license.  They ain't making them anymore but if you had one 
you could keep it. I wasn't that great with code so I never tried for 
Extra. 

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#94764 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11bu51q$2u4ci$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94757
On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 23:28:12 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue wrote:

> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards
> and later with terminals as they became available around campus. I
> agree that cards or anything low tech makes the developer first
> think about what they want to build and then do so.

Imagine if your calculator was like that: you had to think carefully
what you wanted to do, and write it down on a coding form or
something, before simply switching the thing on and punching buttons
...

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#94767 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<mIKdndv348emLH_3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94764
On 10/28/26 20:46, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 23:28:12 -0000 (UTC), David LaRue wrote:
> 
>> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards
>> and later with terminals as they became available around campus. I
>> agree that cards or anything low tech makes the developer first
>> think about what they want to build and then do so.
> 
> Imagine if your calculator was like that: you had to think carefully
> what you wanted to do, and write it down on a coding form or
> something, before simply switching the thing on and punching buttons
> ...

   Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago.

   Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER.

   That plus minimal memory/storage ensured
   good quality, tight, code.

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#94773 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<20261029091314.0000126b@gmail.com>
In reply to#94767
On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 22:36:37 -0400
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago.
> 
> Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER.
> 
> That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code.

:s/ensured/encouraged/

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#94777 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<W0MES.44500$lAb6.5817@fx07.iad>
In reply to#94773
On 2026-10-29, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 22:36:37 -0400
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>
>> Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago.
>> 
>> Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER.
>> 
>> That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code.
>
>:s/ensured/encouraged/

It also encouraged efficient, logical, consistent system design.
There just weren't the resources to implement the kinds of cruft
that seems to be mandatory these days.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#94798 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<MgSdnZ8ls44203n3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94777
On 10/29/26 14:13, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2026 22:36:37 -0400
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well ... THAT'S HOW IT WAS not ALL so long ago.
>>>
>>> Get it right the FIRST time, or SUFFER.
>>>
>>> That plus minimal memory/storage ensured good quality, tight, code.
>>
>> :s/ensured/encouraged/
> 
> It also encouraged efficient, logical, consistent system design.
> There just weren't the resources to implement the kinds of cruft
> that seems to be mandatory these days.

   WILL still stick to my long-time rec that all
   'computer' students START on micro-controllers.
   Teaches efficiency, exact crafting, some hint
   of the underlying electronics.

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#94778 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromChristian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de>
Date2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<slrn11e712j.1hu2.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
In reply to#94757
On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later 
> with terminals as they became available around campus.

For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".

-- 
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          naddy@mips.inka.de

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#94781 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromKaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com>
Date2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<20261029124542.471@kylheku.com>
In reply to#94778
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
> On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later 
>> with terminals as they became available around campus.
>
> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".

By January 1st, 1979, 87.395% of all university access methods to
computers were interactive visual terminals rather than TTYs or other.
(With a 95% confidence interval of +/- 0.003% based on the polled
sample size.)

A coordinated mass conversion, to visual terminals, of all remaining
teletype and other non-visual terminals attached to legacy time sharing
systems, at all university campuses around the world, took place on
September 13, 1983, now remembered as "T day".

Engineering students in New York celebrated by suspending a chain of
seven key punch machines from the Brooklyn Bridge.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#94782 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<damcrmx02i.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#94778
On 2026-10-29 18:37, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later
>> with terminals as they became available around campus.
> 
> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
> 

Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.

I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals 
earlier.

Maybe what counts is the department that teaches programming to students 
buys the terminals, which is an important investment.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#94786 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromChristian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de>
Date2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<slrn11e7f9k.1n8k.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
In reply to#94782
On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
>
> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.

I'm asking for personal recollections.  When did it happen for you?
I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect
opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their
punch card days.

And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than
engineering.

> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals 
> earlier.

That's one data point, thanks.

-- 
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          naddy@mips.inka.de

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#94789 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c0mir$3qofm$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94786
On 29/10/2026 21:40, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>>> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
>>
>> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.
> 
> I'm asking for personal recollections.  When did it happen for you?
> I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect
> opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their
> punch card days.
> 
Well in 1969 it was flexowriters and an Elliot computer and paper tape.

It was so bad I  gave up on computers till around 1980
At some point a friend with more money than sense started building an 
S100 computer. 6800 based I think.
Think he had a serial terminal

But what then happened was PC's and computers with keyboards and 
monitors and no one cared about terminals much. Unless you were running 
UNIX and a multiuser setup.
I remember 32 Wyse 50s on a sco unix 386 box with a custom serial card.


That was a popular corporate setup.


> And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than
> engineering.
> 
>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals
>> earlier.
> 
> That's one data point, thanks.
> 
That vaguely gybes with my memory. I THINK that serial terminals for 
micros existed prior to 1980, but have no idea about mainframes etc.

VT100 was a 1978 released serial terminal

It was essentially the benchmark

Later terminals were cheaper, but the VT100 was the first I can recall

However...

"DEC's first video terminal was the VT05 (1970), succeeded by the VT50 
(1974), and soon upgraded to the VT52 (1975). The VT52 featured a text 
display with 80 columns and 24 rows, bidirectional scrolling, and a 
custom control protocol that allowed the cursor to be moved about the 
screen. "

I think that the Vt52 was about the first time a 'glass teletype' 
actually became more cost effective than a teletype


-- 
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will 
let them."


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#94790 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<ifRES.91546$Gau3.37669@fx14.iad>
In reply to#94786
On 2026-10-29, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

> On 2026-10-29, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>>> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
>>
>> Depends on the country and the uni. Even depends on the department.
>
> I'm asking for personal recollections.  When did it happen for you?
> I've been wondering for some time, and this seems like the perfect
> opportunity to ask, given that people have reminisced about their
> punch card days.
>
> And yes, I expect computer science got terminals earlier than
> engineering.
>
>> I think I saw it in 1983, but there were departments that had terminals 
>> earlier.
>
> That's one data point, thanks.

I attended university from 1968 to 1971.  In the fall of 1968
they converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67.  The 360 had a few
2260s, but I wouldn't call them common and access was fairly
restricted.  There was a number of hard-copy terminals, many
of them dialup: IBM 2741, Teletype 33, 35, and even a few 37s.
But billing (in computer centre funny money, issued to students at
the start of a term) was given a fudge factor of 1.4 for terminal
access.  Most of us contented ourselves with either using the
RJE terminal (originally staffed with an operator who collected
a ticket for each run, later self-serve IIRC), or dropping our
cards into a tray and coming back the next day to pick up the
results (which incurred only a 0.4 fudge factor, which was great
for conserving CC$ that were running low by the end of the term).

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#94792 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkil10FinrcU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#94790
On Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:09:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> I attended university from 1968 to 1971.  In the fall of 1968 they
> converted from an IBM 7044 to a 360/67.  The 360 had a few 2260s, but I
> wouldn't call them common and access was fairly restricted.

The 360/67 was the start of something new for IBM -- timesharing. The 
360/30 maxxed out at 64K and became a satellite processor for some of the 
later 360 machines. I wasn't too interested but a friend was and spoke of 
the future with awe. He eventually dropped out and moved to Boston where 
there was a lot more happening.

My girlfriend started at SUNY Albany before transferring out of that zoo. 
I can't remember what they had, CDC maybe, but definitely not IBM and her 
programming course was in some language that I don't think survived 
either. 

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#94806 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c1tv5$5sgi$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94792
On 30/10/2026 04:33, rbowman wrote:
> her
> programming course was in some language that I don't think survived
> either.

  Probably ALGOL.

That was all the rage back then

-- 
Any fool can believe in principles -  and most of them do!


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#94788 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11c0m0m$3q5il$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94778
On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".

How about “the 1970s”?

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#94801 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<6cqcnXMuGul9yXn3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94788
On 10/29/26 19:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:37:23 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> 
>> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
>> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".
> 
> How about “the 1970s”?

   Fair enough. As said, depends on WHERE.

   Where I was, first saw like a dozen 'public
   access' terminals in 1978.

   But you had to be 'authorized' - and for
   minor users it was just access to a few
   little databases.

   Even the 'big iron' (usually medium-iron) of
   the day couldn't handle TOO much stuff.

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#94797 — Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-30 03:58 -0400
SubjectRe: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<L-GdncvKWuWM03n3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94778
On 10/29/26 13:37, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2026-10-28, David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> I too grew up accessing computers (the big iron) first with cards and later
>> with terminals as they became available around campus.
> 
> For those of us too young: When exactly did terminals become common
> on university campuses?  Please be more specific than "the 1980s".

   Ummmm ... started seeing them in the latter 70s ...
   at least ones 'regular people' were allowed to use
   for anything. EXACT date - forget it - depends on
   where you were. Surely sooner at Princeton than
   SteerPoke U.

   Original 'regular people' uses often included the
   printed library card catalog. Those authorized
   COULD write programs however. First I saw were
   hooked to SOME model of DEC iron.

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#94685 — Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-26 00:57 -0400
SubjectRe: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI)
Message-ID<pLicnUKiRtswQEP3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94654
On 10/24/26 08:10, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <11bhv61$1bjd2$2@dont-email.me>,
> Janis Papanagnou  <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>    KSH and BASH are "mostly compatible". Minor diffs but
>>>    nothing hard to get around. Anything you can do in KSH
>>>    can be done in BASH.
>>
>> This is not correct. While Bash has over time adopted quite
>> some features from Ksh - but sadly needed often far too many
>> years for that - there's still a lot substantial functions
>> in Ksh that Bash has not implemented (or substituted by some
>> equivalent feature).
> 
> I think you're taking Speedy way too seriously here.  All of your points
> are valid, of course, but it should not be necessary to respond to the
> troll.
> 
> BTW, you assert that there are (many) features of Ksh that are not (yet)
> present in bash.  I'm not doubting you, but I am curious about examples.
> It seems to me that if you assert something like that, you should give
> examples.

   I've mentioned (necessary) "Functional Convergence". If yer
   shell doesn't do something neat-o some other one does NOW,
   it WILL soon enough. Might get squeezed-in nice/neat, or
   maybe NOT. All great/pure ideas/visions eventually HAVE to
   converge somewhere - or vanish into the historical recycle bin.

   Anyway, for 'scripts', I'm 99% Python now. Does EVERYTHING
   and MUCH clearer than any old shell.

   Of note, did NOT use Python until P3 came out. It seemed
   interesting/versatile but why learn an obsolete version ?
   BASIC, skip the bile, became a fair 'script' lang after
   awhile - but, too clunky IMHO - meant for a different
   era, different environment, different mindset.

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#94657

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2026-10-24 13:41 +0000
Message-ID<6adcb580$0$7075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#94648
Le 24-10-2026, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> a écrit :
> On 2026-10-24 05:59, c186282 wrote:
>>    Note however that MOST distros default to BASH now -
>
> Yes, Linux often has Bash as its default.

I just keep this because I guess, if I don't consider it to be wrong
because I know what it exactly means, I believe it's often a source of
confusion. Because it can mean two different things and three different
things must be considered when speaking about the default shell.

Mostly, BASH is the default for the three things, one of them can be
changed effortlessly, one of them would be very difficult to change in
the long term and the last one depend on the interaction with others.

The first thing is the way by which you interact directly with your
SHELL, a kind of REPL. It's just a field in the /etc/passwd file, it's
easy to change and if you prefer any SHELL, just install it, change the
field and it rocks. It's just a matter of taste, nothing can go wrong by
changing it.

The second thing is the shell used by the distro to run its script. This
one is clearly often BASH, changing it can be challenging. And things
can go wrong in a lot of ways, from the shebang poorly defined to some
specificities expected by the distro. But really, I'm not sure it's a
real issue because I'm not sure there are reason to change it. The
fact that systemd doesn't need any shell script is a reason why it's nit
that important. One can want to change the default provided by the
distro, but changing the script shell provided by the distro mean each
time an update is done, the changes will be removed. And they will need
special care. When there are ways to change the default without changing
the scripts provided by the distro.

The last one is the shell you choose to write your scripts. It doesn't
need to be the same one than the one you are using to interact with your
shell. As long as the shebang is correctly defined, it depends more on
the people with whom you share it than with any default choice made by
any distro. Because people can be more or less comfortable with
different specificities, even if they can install any available shell.

Unlike the choice of the default bootloader or the choice of the default
init system can can have huge impacts, I really don't see how the choice
of the default shell by a distro can be important (for the end user
because for the contributor, it has some implications).

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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