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Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

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  Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2021-08-30 18:22 -0500
    Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2021-08-31 00:14 +0000
    Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-31 04:39 +0100
      Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-31 15:19 +0200
        Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-31 14:34 +0100
          Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-31 16:16 +0200
            Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-31 15:47 +0100
              Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-31 18:54 +0200
                Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-31 17:59 +0100
                Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-01 04:21 +0000
    Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2021-08-31 10:59 +0200
    Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-31 06:04 -0400
    Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2021-09-14 22:42 -0400
      Re: Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 08:02 +0000

#3499 — Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?

Setup details:

Intel Core 2 Q8200 (quad-core; default clock speeds; Socket 775 LGA;
Yorkfield) with a Scythe Andy Master 120mm CPU cooler (SCASM-1000),
Antec Sonata Proto mid tower ATX case, MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514)
motherboard (latest BIOS), two 1 GB of Crucial RAM (Samsung DDR2 800
(PC2-6400; 400 MHz), EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB
of VRAM), onboard RealTek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
and Intel High Digital Audio (HDA), 600 watts Sea Sonic S12 PSU, ASUS TV
Tuner Card 880 NTSC (cx23880), Pioneer CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model
DVR-218LBK LabelFlash Support, 3.5" floppy disk drive, Corsair Force
Series F115 Solid-State Disk (SSD) (115 GB; CSSD-F115GB2-BRKT-A), two
internal 3.5" SATA hard disk drives (HDDs) [Seagate ST3320620AS 320 GB
and Western Digital Purple Surveillance 2 TB (6 Gbs; 50 MB cache; WDC
WD20PURX-64P6ZY0)], Sabrent USB2+memory card reader front panel, and an
Intel InBusiness 10/100 (82559) NIC (not connected). Running 64-bit
Debian (Linux; oldoldstable v8/Jessie; kernel v3.16... x86_64) and
updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE SP1 (installed on 10/22/2016).

Connected to an old (Y2K) Belkin Omni Cube (2-port; PS/2 and VGA) KVM to
share a 23.6" 16:9 1920x1080 pixels ASUS VS247H-P monitor (LED; 2 ms,
9/2014, etc.), a Dell 104-key PS/2 keyboard, and a three-buttons PS/2
optical Logitech mouse.

Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
-- 
Too many issues, allergies, videos, and free huge sized game trials!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
 / /\ /\ \                      Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )

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#3500

On 2021-08-30, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?

I'm running Lubuntu 18.04 on a 2004-vintage Centrino laptop, and Debian 11
with LXDE on an Asus Eee netbook from 2009. These are 32-bit 2GB systems
with small SSDs installed. They're not speed demons but work fine. Don't
expect to play HD video but SD works OK. (Though maybe with your video
card you'll have better results.) I expect you'll do all right running
Debian 11 on your setup. Some additional memory wouldn't be a bad idea.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  18 Reasons I won't be vaccinated        -- https://tinyurl.com/ebty2dx3
  Covid vaccines: experimental biology    -- https://tinyurl.com/57mncfm5
  The fraud of "Climate Change"           -- https://RealClimateScience.com
  Don't talk to cops!                     -- https://DontTalkToCops.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#3501

On 31/08/2021 00:22, Ant wrote:
> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?
Try Linux Mint Mate
Verty good multimedia support. Not as dumbed as Cinnamon
-- 
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is 
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

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#3504

Am 31.08.21 um 05:39 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 31/08/2021 00:22, Ant wrote:
>> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
>> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
>> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
>> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
>> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?
> Try Linux Mint Mate
> Verty good multimedia support. Not as dumbed as Cinnamon

https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290

Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.


-- 
De gustibus non est disputandum

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#3505

On 31/08/2021 14:19, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 31.08.21 um 05:39 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 31/08/2021 00:22, Ant wrote:
>>> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
>>> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
>>> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
>>> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
>>> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?
>> Try Linux Mint Mate
>> Verty good multimedia support. Not as dumbed as Cinnamon
> 
> https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290
> 
> Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.
> 
> 
Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User 
Experience"

-- 
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to 
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

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#3506

Am 31.08.21 um 15:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 31/08/2021 14:19, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290
>>
>> Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.
>>
>>
> Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User 
> Experience"

Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine. This
posting is written on a MacBook Air with a Cinnamon installed as sole OS.


-- 
De gustibus non est disputandum

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#3507

On 31/08/2021 15:16, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 31.08.21 um 15:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 31/08/2021 14:19, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290
>>>
>>> Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.
>>>
>>>
>> Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User
>> Experience"
> 
> Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
> on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine.

In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)



-- 
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

  – Ludwig von Mises

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#3508

Am 31.08.21 um 16:47 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 31/08/2021 15:16, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
>> on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine.
> 
> In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)

*Really*?!
Everything is an improvement over Windows 1X, IMHO.
MacOS is more sophisticated as far as the look is concerned but it is a
digital prison.


-- 
De gustibus non est disputandum

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#3509

On 31/08/2021 17:54, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 31.08.21 um 16:47 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 31/08/2021 15:16, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
>>> on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine.
>>
>> In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)
> 
> *Really*?!
> Everything is an improvement over Windows 1X, IMHO.
> MacOS is more sophisticated as far as the look is concerned but it is a
> digital prison.
> 
> 
In a nutshell yes. My desktop is set up with a MAC look, but that's all


-- 
“It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of 
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on 
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is 
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into, 
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every 
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a 
power-directed system of thought.”
Sir Roger Scruton

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#3510

On 2021-08-31, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 31.08.21 um 16:47 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>
>> On 31/08/2021 15:16, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>
>>> Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
>>> on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine.
>> 
>> In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)
>
> *Really*?!
> Everything is an improvement over Windows 1X, IMHO.
> MacOS is more sophisticated as far as the look is concerned but it is a
> digital prison.

On the rare occasions that I use my wife's Mac, I feel that
I'm not so much using it as it is using me.  See my .sig...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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#3502

[Please don't crosspost this wildly in the future, and at least set a
Followup-To: header]

ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>Intel Core 2 Q8200 (quad-core; default clock speeds; Socket 775 LGA;
>Yorkfield) with a Scythe Andy Master 120mm CPU cooler (SCASM-1000),
>Antec Sonata Proto mid tower ATX case, MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514)
>motherboard (latest BIOS), two 1 GB of Crucial RAM (Samsung DDR2 800
>(PC2-6400; 400 MHz),EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB
>of VRAM),

Do yourself the favor and upgrade your RAM to 8 GB, if the board
allows that. Be careful not to exceed the remaining value of the
entire machine doing so. And expect that the nVidia driver will not
support the old graphics card any more.

Consider ditching the entire machine and replacing it with a more
recent, probably used, box.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

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#3503

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:22:37 -0500, Ant wrote:
>
> Setup details:
>
> Intel Core 2 Q8200 (quad-core; default clock speeds; Socket 775 LGA;
> Yorkfield) with a Scythe Andy Master 120mm CPU cooler (SCASM-1000),
> Antec Sonata Proto mid tower ATX case, MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514)
> motherboard (latest BIOS), two 1 GB of Crucial RAM (Samsung DDR2 800
> (PC2-6400; 400 MHz), EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB
> of VRAM), onboard RealTek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
> and Intel High Digital Audio (HDA), 600 watts Sea Sonic S12 PSU, ASUS TV
> Tuner Card 880 NTSC (cx23880), Pioneer CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model
> DVR-218LBK LabelFlash Support, 3.5" floppy disk drive, Corsair Force
> Series F115 Solid-State Disk (SSD) (115 GB; CSSD-F115GB2-BRKT-A), two
> internal 3.5" SATA hard disk drives (HDDs) [Seagate ST3320620AS 320 GB
> and Western Digital Purple Surveillance 2 TB (6 Gbs; 50 MB cache; WDC
> WD20PURX-64P6ZY0)], Sabrent USB2+memory card reader front panel, and an
> Intel InBusiness 10/100 (82559) NIC (not connected). Running 64-bit
> Debian (Linux; oldoldstable v8/Jessie; kernel v3.16... x86_64) and
> updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE SP1 (installed on 10/22/2016).

I wish I had your specs. My notebook is "only" nine years old, but with a
Duo-Core CPU. Board has 4 GB RAM, running 32-Bit (PAE) Debian. The Gnome
GUI runs fine - *if* not too many apps are running at the same time.

Also have RealTek chips for network (Ethernet and WIFI) built in.

F'up2 comp.os.linux.misc (I don't read the other groups).
-- 
Andreas

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#3511

On 8/30/21 19:22, Ant wrote:
> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?
> 
> Setup details:
> 
> Intel Core 2 Q8200 (quad-core; default clock speeds; Socket 775 LGA;
> Yorkfield) with a Scythe Andy Master 120mm CPU cooler (SCASM-1000),
> Antec Sonata Proto mid tower ATX case, MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514)
> motherboard (latest BIOS), two 1 GB of Crucial RAM (Samsung DDR2 800
> (PC2-6400; 400 MHz), EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB
> of VRAM), onboard RealTek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
> and Intel High Digital Audio (HDA), 600 watts Sea Sonic S12 PSU, ASUS TV
> Tuner Card 880 NTSC (cx23880), Pioneer CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model
> DVR-218LBK LabelFlash Support, 3.5" floppy disk drive, Corsair Force
> Series F115 Solid-State Disk (SSD) (115 GB; CSSD-F115GB2-BRKT-A), two
> internal 3.5" SATA hard disk drives (HDDs) [Seagate ST3320620AS 320 GB
> and Western Digital Purple Surveillance 2 TB (6 Gbs; 50 MB cache; WDC
> WD20PURX-64P6ZY0)], Sabrent USB2+memory card reader front panel, and an
> Intel InBusiness 10/100 (82559) NIC (not connected). Running 64-bit
> Debian (Linux; oldoldstable v8/Jessie; kernel v3.16... x86_64) and
> updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE SP1 (installed on 10/22/2016).
> 
> Connected to an old (Y2K) Belkin Omni Cube (2-port; PS/2 and VGA) KVM to
> share a 23.6" 16:9 1920x1080 pixels ASUS VS247H-P monitor (LED; 2 ms,
> 9/2014, etc.), a Dell 104-key PS/2 keyboard, and a three-buttons PS/2
> optical Logitech mouse.

Hello, Ant.

I can't answer your question, because I have zero experience with 
Debian. I use Mageia Linux, and have since its inception a decade ago, 
and I can say that your hardware would work just fine with Mageia 8.

I would, however, echo some of the advice you've been given here to get 
the best you can out of Mageia. You should add some RAM - bring it up to 
4GB at least, and 8 would be better. With just 2GB you are likely to be 
using swap if you try to do more than one thing at a time, and that will 
hurt performance, even with an ssd.

I'd also replace the Nvidia card with one from AMD, because Nvidia has 
become notorious for not supporting their older cards with proprietary 
drivers. While your current card may work OK with the open source 
nouveau driver, it also may not. I dumped my last Nvidia card two years 
ago because of this. The open source AMD drivers are much more capable 
in my experience.

Ebay is an excellent place to look for lightly used older hardware 
upgrades - it is where most of my hardware has come from.

I have a PC, on loan to my brother, with a 13 year old Intel DQ45CB 
motherboard, a Core 2 Duo E8400 processor, 8GB of RAM, AMD HD 8570 
video, and an ssd drive. He connects to the Internet with an Atheros 
AR9485 PCIe card. He is running Mageia 8 Linux with the Plasma DE, with 
no troubles at all. The video card uses the AMDGPU driver, but actually, 
for anything he's likely to do the onboard Intel graphics would be 
perfectly adequate.

I also have an 18 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 that is successfully 
running Mageia 8 Linux. It has a 32-bit P4 processor, 2GB of RAM (the 
max for the hardware), downright ancient Radeon RV200 graphics, and an 
old Atheros wifi card. It is running 32-bit Mageia Xfce, currently using 
the 5.10.62 kernel. It's definitely no speed demon, but it works.

TJ

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#3512

On 2021-09-15, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:

> I'd also replace the Nvidia card with one from AMD, because Nvidia has 
> become notorious for not supporting their older cards with proprietary 
> drivers. While your current card may work OK with the open source 
> nouveau driver, it also may not. I dumped my last Nvidia card two years 
> ago because of this. The open source AMD drivers are much more capable 
> in my experience.

I've had good results with nVidia cards.  I have older ones (e.g.
GeForce 630) in two of my boxes, and they run just fine with the
proprietary drivers.  You can get versions for older cards like
mine from the Debian site.

I've had trouble with nouveau - one of my boxes was locking up
from time to time, and it straightened out when I replaced nouveau
with the proprietary drivers.  This was a few years ago - perhaps
nouveau is working better now.

I tried borrowing an ATI video card from a friend, and couldn't
get it to work at all.

I'm running Debian Buster on my machines.

I'm writing this message on a Lenovo T410 laptop.  I can't find
an exact release date for it, but it came with Windows 7 and I've
found reviews from 2010.  So it might not be over 12 years old yet,
but it's getting close - and although I'm not doing high-powered
graphics on it, it does manage fairly well with Zoom and Skype.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

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