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What's the difference (RAM question)

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  What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-25 15:29 +0100
    Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-01-25 20:36 +0100
    Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-01-25 15:56 -0600
      Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2023-01-26 06:47 +0000
        Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-01-26 08:45 +0100
          Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-26 09:46 +0100
            Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-01-27 08:57 +0100
              Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-27 12:54 +0100
              Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-01-27 08:11 -0800
                Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-27 19:46 +0100
                  Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-01-27 11:01 -0800
                    Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-27 20:19 +0100
      Re: What's the difference (RAM question) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us - 2023-01-26 16:22 +0000
        Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-26 17:51 +0100
    Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-01-26 12:05 +0000
      Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-26 13:17 +0100
        Re: What's the difference (RAM question) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-01-26 13:12 +0000
          Re: What's the difference (RAM question) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-01-26 15:01 +0100

#3622 — What's the difference (RAM question)

Hi,

Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options 
for RAM:

32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€

32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€


Why is the second option more expensive, does it has advantages?


It is a ThinkPad L14 Gen 3

If you want to see the page, it is this, in Spanish:

<https://www.lenovo.com/es/es/laptops/thinkpad/l-series/ThinkPad-L14-Gen-3-14''-AMD/p/21C5CTO1WWESES2/customize?>


It also mentions a "Graphics Dongle". What is that?

It can be none,  USB-C to VGA, HDMI to VGA , USB-C to DP  (+20€ any of them)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#3623

Am 25.01.2023 um 15:29:13 Uhr schrieb Carlos E.R.:

> Hi,
> 
> Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options 
> for RAM:
> 
> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
> 
> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€

Maybe, they use other capacities per module, like 4x4 GiB or 1x32 for
the first option.
 
> Why is the second option more expensive, does it has advantages?

Maybe because the module prices are different, maybe because someone
needs to manually mount them.

> It also mentions a "Graphics Dongle". What is that?
> 
> It can be none,  USB-C to VGA, HDMI to VGA , USB-C to DP  (+20€ any
> of them)

Maybe a converter to connect the laptop to VGA/DP screens.

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#3624

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 15:29:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options
> for RAM:
>
> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
>
> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€
>
>
> Why is the second option more expensive,

Check the cost of a 16 GB ram and times two to see if vendor is boosting
the cost.

>  does it has advantages?

If ram chip fails on first option, you may have a laptop doorstop.
In the second option you pop out the failed ram and continue to run on the
other chip.

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#3625

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 15:56:15 -0600, Bit Twister wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 15:29:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
>>
>> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€
>>
>> Why is the second option more expensive,
 
>>  does it has advantages?
> 
> If ram chip fails on first option, you may have a laptop doorstop.
> In the second option you pop out the failed ram and continue to run on
> the other chip.

Also, some CPU/chipsets can give twice the memory bandwidth if memory 
modules are installed as pairs. For some CPU/chipsets it is not even 
optimal to install memory modules as pairs, but as groups of 3.

regards Henrik

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#3626

Am 26.01.2023 schrieb Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com>:

> Also, some CPU/chipsets can give twice the memory bandwidth if memory 
> modules are installed as pairs. For some CPU/chipsets it is not even 
> optimal to install memory modules as pairs, but as groups of 3.

That is called DualChannel/TripleChannel.

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#3633

On 2023-01-26 08:45, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 26.01.2023 schrieb Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com>:
> 
>> Also, some CPU/chipsets can give twice the memory bandwidth if memory
>> modules are installed as pairs. For some CPU/chipsets it is not even
>> optimal to install memory modules as pairs, but as groups of 3.
> 
> That is called DualChannel/TripleChannel.

Yes, this is a possibility, but in that case they should mention it.

However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a 
single 32G module?

That's a large difference. If it is "better", they should say something 
about it to get buyers. Or it would be something very well known.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#3634

Am 26.01.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:

> However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a 
> single 32G module?

I don't know why, maybe because these are custom orders and somebody
needs to open the case to exchange the modules.

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#3635

On 2023-01-27 08:57, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 26.01.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
> 
>> However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a
>> single 32G module?
> 
> I don't know why, maybe because these are custom orders and somebody
> needs to open the case to exchange the modules.
> 

No, because other options are only 10€ more.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#3636

On 1/26/23 23:57, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 26.01.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
> 
>> However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a
>> single 32G module?
> 
> I don't know why, maybe because these are custom orders and somebody
> needs to open the case to exchange the modules.
> 

	Because someone wants it enough to pay for it.  How about 2 32 GB modules?

	bliss
	
-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#3637

On 2023-01-27 17:11, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 1/26/23 23:57, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 26.01.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>>
>>> However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a
>>> single 32G module?
>>
>> I don't know why, maybe because these are custom orders and somebody
>> needs to open the case to exchange the modules.
>>
> 
>      Because someone wants it enough to pay for it.  How about 2 32 GB 
> modules?


Firefox died, and on restart, the prices seem to be different.

The default or included is 2*16G.

8G   -160€
2*8  -110€
16G  -110
32G  -100€
2*16 0
2*32 +70€ (was +220€)

There is not an option of a single 64G module.	


Another funny thing is that by default it has no WiFi, only ethernet. 
Ie, optional WiFi, and adding it means a delay for up to three weeks.


<https://www.lenovo.com/es/es/laptops/thinkpad/l-series/ThinkPad-L14-Gen-3-14''-AMD/p/21C5CTO1WWESES2/customize?>

(You can probably read it in English using google translate)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#3638

On 1/27/23 10:46, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-01-27 17:11, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 1/26/23 23:57, Marco Moock wrote:
>>> Am 26.01.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>>>
>>>> However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a
>>>> single 32G module?
>>>
>>> I don't know why, maybe because these are custom orders and somebody
>>> needs to open the case to exchange the modules.
>>>
>>
>>      Because someone wants it enough to pay for it.  How about 2 32 GB 
>> modules?
> 
> 
> Firefox died, and on restart, the prices seem to be different.
> 
> The default or included is 2*16G.
> 
> 8G   -160€
> 2*8  -110€
> 16G  -110
> 32G  -100€
> 2*16 0
> 2*32 +70€ (was +220€)
> 
> There is not an option of a single 64G module.
> 
> 
> Another funny thing is that by default it has no WiFi, only ethernet. 
> Ie, optional WiFi, and adding it means a delay for up to three weeks.
> 
> 
> <https://www.lenovo.com/es/es/laptops/thinkpad/l-series/ThinkPad-L14-Gen-3-14''-AMD/p/21C5CTO1WWESES2/customize?>
> 
> (You can probably read it in English using google translate)

	Look around a bit more.
	Check out possible refurbished machinces.
	I prefer Dell myself and got this used for 240 USD.from an previous 
user who needed money.
	That was in April 2020.

bliss - on the ever-faithful Dell Latitude E7450, PCLinuxOS 2022
KDE Plasma 5.26.5 Kernel:  6.1.5-pclos1 (64-bit)
KDE Frameworks  5.102.0 - Qt Version: 5.15.6
Graphics : X11 - Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 5500
15.5 GiB of RAM - CPU 4 × Intel® Core™ i7-5600U CPU @ 2.60GHz
Actually 2 real cores and 2 virtual cores.


-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#3639

On 2023-01-27 20:01, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 1/27/23 10:46, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-01-27 17:11, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>> On 1/26/23 23:57, Marco Moock wrote:
>>>> Am 26.01.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>>>>
>>>>> However, why would two 16G modules be 100 euros more expensive than a
>>>>> single 32G module?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know why, maybe because these are custom orders and somebody
>>>> needs to open the case to exchange the modules.
>>>>
>>>
>>>      Because someone wants it enough to pay for it.  How about 2 32 
>>> GB modules?
>>
>>
>> Firefox died, and on restart, the prices seem to be different.
>>
>> The default or included is 2*16G.
>>
>> 8G   -160€
>> 2*8  -110€
>> 16G  -110
>> 32G  -100€
>> 2*16 0
>> 2*32 +70€ (was +220€)
>>
>> There is not an option of a single 64G module.
>>
>>
>> Another funny thing is that by default it has no WiFi, only ethernet. 
>> Ie, optional WiFi, and adding it means a delay for up to three weeks.
>>
>>
>> <https://www.lenovo.com/es/es/laptops/thinkpad/l-series/ThinkPad-L14-Gen-3-14''-AMD/p/21C5CTO1WWESES2/customize?>
>>
>> (You can probably read it in English using google translate)
> 
>      Look around a bit more.
>      Check out possible refurbished machinces.
>      I prefer Dell myself and got this used for 240 USD.from an previous 
> user who needed money.
>      That was in April 2020.

I like Lenovo :-)

No, the above machine is probably not the one I'll get, I'm aiming to 
800€. We'll see.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#3631

Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 15:29:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options
>> for RAM:
>>
>> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
>>
>> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€
> 
>>  does it has advantages?
> 
> If ram chip fails on first option, you may have a laptop doorstop.
> In the second option you pop out the failed ram and continue to run on the
> other chip.

Another possible advantage of 2x16 vs 1x32: dual-channel memory setups can
be a bit faster, with memory accesses spread across two DIMMs.

OTOH, if only two DIMM slots are available (not at all uncommon in
notebooks), upgrading from a 2x16 configuration will require replacing both
DIMMs.

-- 
  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/           Top-posting!
 \_^_/                              >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#3632

On 2023-01-26 17:22, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 15:29:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options
>>> for RAM:
>>>
>>> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
>>>
>>> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€
>>
>>>   does it has advantages?
>>
>> If ram chip fails on first option, you may have a laptop doorstop.
>> In the second option you pop out the failed ram and continue to run on the
>> other chip.
> 
> Another possible advantage of 2x16 vs 1x32: dual-channel memory setups can
> be a bit faster, with memory accesses spread across two DIMMs.
> 
> OTOH, if only two DIMM slots are available (not at all uncommon in
> notebooks), upgrading from a 2x16 configuration will require replacing both
> DIMMs.

I don't foresee needing more than 32. My current laptop has 4. There are 
some offers with 24, and that would be enough as well, I think.

I use the laptop when moving, not at home. There I have a proper desktop :-)

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#3627

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options 
> for RAM:
> 
> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
> 
> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€
> 
> 
> Why is the second option more expensive, does it has advantages?

Ordinarily the first option might be because it has four slots and they're
populating it with 4x 8GB, which means all the slots are filled, whereas 2x
16GB might leave two empty slots.

However this laptop has only two SODIMM slots, so it's either 1x 32 or 2x
16.  Normally 2x16 would be cheaper than 1x32, but maybe it isn't for some
reason.

The Ryzen 5875U has two memory channels, so your choices are:
1x32: half the memory bandwidth, expandable to 64GB
2x16: full memory bandwidth, no expandability

Personally I'd either go with the 1x32 or 2x32 (64GB) options - can't really
see the point of paying EUR100 extra for the memory bandwidth where EUR170
will double the RAM.

Or buying the base spec (8GB) model and upgrading the RAM yourself.  That
reduces the laptop price by EUR230.  Locally, SODIMMs DDR4-3200 2x32GB are
GBP169.

> It also mentions a "Graphics Dongle". What is that?
> 
> It can be none,  USB-C to VGA, HDMI to VGA , USB-C to DP  (+20€ any of them)

USB-C can carry video via Displayport, so this is an external adapter to
expose a VGA or Displayport connector.  Seems like the laptop also has HDMI,
so there's an adapter for that to VGA as well.

Theo

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#3628

On 2023-01-26 13:05, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Looking at some Lenovo laptops, configurable, and I get these options
>> for RAM:
>>
>> 32 GB DDR4 at 3200 Mhz   +10€
>>
>> 32 GB DDR4 (2 * 16 GB) at 3200 Mhz   +110€
>>
>>
>> Why is the second option more expensive, does it has advantages?
> 
> Ordinarily the first option might be because it has four slots and they're
> populating it with 4x 8GB, which means all the slots are filled, whereas 2x
> 16GB might leave two empty slots.
> 
> However this laptop has only two SODIMM slots, so it's either 1x 32 or 2x
> 16.  Normally 2x16 would be cheaper than 1x32, but maybe it isn't for some
> reason.

Someone told me that Lenovo has sometimes weird price policies. Like 
sometimes having Ubuntu installed being cheaper than "no os", and 
sometimes it is the reverse.

> 
> The Ryzen 5875U has two memory channels, so your choices are:
> 1x32: half the memory bandwidth, expandable to 64GB
> 2x16: full memory bandwidth, no expandability
> 
> Personally I'd either go with the 1x32 or 2x32 (64GB) options - can't really
> see the point of paying EUR100 extra for the memory bandwidth where EUR170
> will double the RAM.
> 
> Or buying the base spec (8GB) model and upgrading the RAM yourself.  That
> reduces the laptop price by EUR230.  Locally, SODIMMs DDR4-3200 2x32GB are
> GBP169.

That's an idea, yes. I'll check.

> 
>> It also mentions a "Graphics Dongle". What is that?
>>
>> It can be none,  USB-C to VGA, HDMI to VGA , USB-C to DP  (+20€ any of them)
> 
> USB-C can carry video via Displayport, so this is an external adapter to
> expose a VGA or Displayport connector.  Seems like the laptop also has HDMI,
> so there's an adapter for that to VGA as well.

Ok, now I understand what it is. I'll stay with the internal HDMI port, 
I don't need this dongle.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#3629

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> Someone told me that Lenovo has sometimes weird price policies. Like 
> sometimes having Ubuntu installed being cheaper than "no os", and 
> sometimes it is the reverse.

Yes, both Lenovo and Dell have very odd pricing if you aren't a business. 
My current Lenovo was launched at $3000 list in the US (and got terrible
reviews for being so expensive) but UK pricing was more like $1500 (+VAT). 
Whenever I've asked Dell business for a quote for budgetary purposes, it can
often be half or less from list.

If you aren't a business, look for 'sales' which often reduces prices by 30%
or more and makes them more sensible.  Or buy from a reseller, not direct.

> That's an idea, yes. I'll check.

Looks fairly straightforward to open:
https://laptopmedia.com/gb/review/lenovo-thinkpad-l14-gen-3/#disassembly-upgrade-options-and-maintenance

> Ok, now I understand what it is. I'll stay with the internal HDMI port, 
> I don't need this dongle.

It's not doing anything that third party USB-C dongles can't do, so you can
always pick one of those up later if needs be.  Or use a docking station.

Theo

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#3630

On 2023-01-26 14:12, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> Someone told me that Lenovo has sometimes weird price policies. Like
>> sometimes having Ubuntu installed being cheaper than "no os", and
>> sometimes it is the reverse.
> 
> Yes, both Lenovo and Dell have very odd pricing if you aren't a business.
> My current Lenovo was launched at $3000 list in the US (and got terrible
> reviews for being so expensive) but UK pricing was more like $1500 (+VAT).
> Whenever I've asked Dell business for a quote for budgetary purposes, it can
> often be half or less from list.
> 
> If you aren't a business, look for 'sales' which often reduces prices by 30%
> or more and makes them more sensible.  Or buy from a reseller, not direct.

But the reseller doesn't do "customization". At least not the one I 
typically use.

> 
>> That's an idea, yes. I'll check.
> 
> Looks fairly straightforward to open:
> https://laptopmedia.com/gb/review/lenovo-thinkpad-l14-gen-3/#disassembly-upgrade-options-and-maintenance

Ah,thanks.

> 
>> Ok, now I understand what it is. I'll stay with the internal HDMI port,
>> I don't need this dongle.
> 
> It's not doing anything that third party USB-C dongles can't do, so you can
> always pick one of those up later if needs be.  Or use a docking station.

Right. I just did not know what they were talking about. They don't seem 
to have a button to expand information on the items.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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