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Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again

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  Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 08:49 +0000
    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 08:01 -0500
    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-08 09:11 -0500
      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 15:40 +0000
        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-08 11:05 -0500
          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 17:07 +0000
            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-09 08:22 -0500
              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-09 20:03 +0000
              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-10 07:54 +0000
                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-10 10:27 -0500
                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-11 06:23 +0000
                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-11 08:51 -0500
                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-11 20:49 +0000
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-11 19:47 -0500
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-12 03:09 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-12 09:02 -0500
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-12 19:12 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-12 19:03 -0500
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-13 06:44 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-13 07:27 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-13 08:43 -0500
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-14 07:44 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-14 09:04 -0500
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-14 00:52 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-14 09:00 -0500
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-14 22:21 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-14 18:53 -0500
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-15 06:53 +0000
                                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-15 05:41 -0500
                                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-16 00:10 +0000
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 06:27 +0000
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-12 06:47 +0000
                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-12 00:33 +0000
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-11 19:43 -0500
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-11 19:50 -0500
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-12 02:54 +0000
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 06:38 +0000
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-02-11 20:39 -0500
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-12 04:33 +0000
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-15 11:27 +0000
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-15 21:08 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-15 22:03 +0000
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 00:46 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 04:07 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 09:01 +0000
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 03:53 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 09:04 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-15 19:32 -0500
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 04:10 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 09:06 +0000
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-15 21:26 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-15 22:36 +0000
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-16 00:09 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 08:49 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 00:36 +0000
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-16 01:36 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 03:46 +0000
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-02-16 02:09 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-15 21:13 -0500
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 04:01 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-15 23:39 -0500
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-16 08:40 -0500
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-17 05:29 +0000
                                        (more on) Pan (was: Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-17 11:34 +0000
                                          Re: (more on) Pan (was: Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-17 19:03 +0000
                                            Re: (more on) Pan snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-17 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-17 07:13 -0500
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-17 21:47 +0000
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 04:18 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-15 23:48 -0500
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 05:32 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 00:39 -0500
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 08:14 +0000
                                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 04:10 -0500
                                              Agent isn't open source. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 12:39 +0000
                                                Re: Agent isn't open source. % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 05:47 -0700
                                                  Re: Agent isn't open source. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 13:11 +0000
                                                    Re: Agent isn't open source. % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 06:18 -0700
                                                      Re: Agent isn't open source. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-17 06:17 +0000
                                                    Re: Agent isn't open source. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 13:20 +0000
                                                  Linux and Pan are open source (was: Re: Agent isn't open source.) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 14:56 +0000
                                                Re: Agent isn't open source. Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 07:48 -0500
                                                Re: Agent isn't open source. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-02-16 07:56 -0500
                                                Re: Agent isn't open source. snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-16 13:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Agent isn't open source. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 13:22 +0000
                                                    Re: Agent isn't open source. % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 06:33 -0700
                                                    [OT] Ice cream (was: Re: Agent isn't open source.) snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-16 13:37 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Ice cream % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 06:38 -0700
                                                      Re: [OT] Ice cream (was: Re: Agent isn't open source.) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 14:14 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Ice cream snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-16 14:37 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Ice cream (was: Re: Agent isn't open source.) chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:32 -0600
                                                          Re: [OT] Ice cream (was: Re: Agent isn't open source.) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-17 05:20 +0000
                                                            Re: [OT] Ice cream Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 11:47 -0600
                                                Re: Agent isn't open source. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-02-16 07:53 -0600
                                                  Re: Agent isn't open source. Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 15:14 -0600
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-02-16 07:50 -0500
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 13:17 +0000
                                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 06:20 -0700
                                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-02-16 13:27 +0000
                                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 06:32 -0700
                                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-02-16 13:42 +0000
                                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-02-16 13:28 +0000
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 19:52 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-16 08:44 -0500
                                Pan (was: Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 03:56 +0000
                                  Re: Pan (was: Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-02-16 04:39 +0000
                                  Re: Pan (was: Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 04:59 +0000
                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-12 06:24 +0000
                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-12 09:04 -0500
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-12 19:16 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-12 19:07 -0500
                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-13 06:41 +0000
                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-13 08:42 -0500
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-13 21:23 +0000
                              Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-14 07:43 +0000
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-14 09:03 -0500
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-14 21:09 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-14 18:51 -0500
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-15 00:38 +0000
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-15 14:18 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-15 12:39 -0500
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-15 21:18 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-15 19:36 -0500
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-16 04:12 +0000
                                            Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 08:51 +0000
                                        Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 08:50 +0000
                                          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-16 08:46 -0500
                                Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-14 20:45 +0000
                                  Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-14 21:43 +0000
                                    Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-15 00:28 +0000
                                      Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-16 04:19 +0000
          Re: Hobbyware WinCrap 11 strikes again candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-10 18:30 +0000

Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7  Next page →

#685943

On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:


> Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
> time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
> software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
> was nothing about the updates.

On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update 
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch. On 
Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself. You have 
to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance. 


> Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
> it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
> by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
> able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
> the system.

I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use 
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something 
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.

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#685951

Le 15-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
>> time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
>> software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
>> was nothing about the updates.
>
> On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update 
> is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch.

So, in that case, it's not managed by the package installer, but by the
application itself. Which is different. And the purpose of the package
manager is for the software to avoid doing this.

> On Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself.
> You have to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance. 

So here, the information comes from the software but the package manager
takes care of the update. Which is the proper way, because if the
software didn't checked itself, the package manager would have done it.

>> Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
>> it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
>> by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
>> able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
>> the system.
>
> I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use 
> venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something 
> like ruff but I still do that in the venv.

I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#685980

On 15 Feb 2025 22:03:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <67b10f38$0$28493$426a34cc@news.free.fr>:

> Le 15-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
>> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
>>> time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
>>> software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
>>> was nothing about the updates.
>>
>> On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update 
>> is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch.
> 
> So, in that case, it's not managed by the package installer, but by the
> application itself. Which is different. And the purpose of the package
> manager is for the software to avoid doing this.
> 
>> On Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself.
>> You have to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance. 
> 
> So here, the information comes from the software but the package manager
> takes care of the update. Which is the proper way, because if the
> software didn't checked itself, the package manager would have done it.
> 
>>> Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
>>> it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
>>> by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
>>> able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
>>> the system.
>>
>> I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use 
>> venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something 
>> like ruff but I still do that in the venv.
> 
> I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
> message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
> It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
> and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
> sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
> anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
> idea about the side effects.

It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I figured out
what that means), seems to work well.

For example, I have a Fooocus directory that contains another Fooocus
directory, which contains the git repo pulled from the master.

In there, I've set up a venv -- so to run Fooocus, I cd into the git
repo directory, then run 

$ ../bin/python3 entry_with_update.py

To get all the requirements installed first, I ran

$ ../bin/pip3 install -r requirements_versions.txt

It was all fairly easy, and it's compartmentalized.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue..."
[ note about that tag: that's actually not too difficult
with Linux primes(1)...]

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#686008

On 16 Feb 2025 00:46:30 GMT, vallor wrote:

> It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I
> figured out what that means), seems to work well.

I don't have a reason to but python3 on my machine is Python 3.12.7. 
However there is also Python 3.10.12.  

Python3.10 -m venv foo  

should create a 3.10.12 environment. That might be handy for some things. 
Python 3.13 dropped the cgi module. I don't know if CherryPi has caught up 
but on my work Windows machine it broke when I went to 3.13. There is a 
fix with 

pip install legacy-cgi 

but there may have been a way around it with a venv referencing an older 
Python.

It's in the best Python tradition -- we don't need that old stuff any 
more. Can it.

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#686026

Le 16-02-2025, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> a écrit :
> On 15 Feb 2025 22:03:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
> in <67b10f38$0$28493$426a34cc@news.free.fr>:
>
>> Le 15-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
>>> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
>>>> it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
>>>> by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
>>>> able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
>>>> the system.
>>>
>>> I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use 
>>> venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something 
>>> like ruff but I still do that in the venv.
>> 
>> I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
>> message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
>> It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
>> and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
>> sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
>> anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
>> idea about the side effects.
>
> It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I figured out
> what that means), seems to work well.

Yes, that's what I said: I had to run it in a virtual environment. So
it's what I said, the official way of using python for a developer is to
use it in a virtual environment. Which means the programmer is expecting
to install the library required by is software and not using the
libraries of the system. It's not my decision, it's, like I said, the
new way: the libraries installed by the system are used by the system
and the libraries installed by the developer are used by the software.
They are not shared anymore and it avoids compatibilities issues.

And it's exactly what snap, appimage and flatpack are doing on a broader
way than python. Like it or not, it's what people are doing now, and
there are reasons behind that.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#686005

On 15 Feb 2025 22:03:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
> message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
> It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
> and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
> sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
> anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
> idea about the side effects.

× This environment is externally managed
╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
    python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
    install.

sudo apt install python3-ruff

did work and it is in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/ruff.  It might have 
been OpenSUSE 13.2 where you could force feed it. 

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#686027

Le 16-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
> On 15 Feb 2025 22:03:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
>> message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
>> It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
>> and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
>> sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
>> anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
>> idea about the side effects.
>
> × This environment is externally managed
> ╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
>     python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
>     install.
>
> sudo apt install python3-ruff
>
> did work and it is in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/ruff.  It might have 
> been OpenSUSE 13.2 where you could force feed it. 

There was a precision in what I said: for the libraries not managed by
the distribution. Of course it works for the libraries managed by the
distribution.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#685976

On 2025-02-15 4:08 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> 
> 
>> Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
>> time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
>> software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
>> was nothing about the updates.
> 
> On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
> is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch. On
> Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself. You have
> to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.

Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be 
somewhat easier now.

< snip >

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage/
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage

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#686009

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:32:48 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be
> somewhat easier now.

On Windows it's click on the reddish 'Update Available' and relaunch after 
it's downloaded. Can't get easier. It's only on Ubuntu where you click and 
it says no can do and you have to mess around with snap. iirc you also 
have to 'killall brave' since snap isn't very good at updating running 
processes.

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#686029

Le 16-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:32:48 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be
>> somewhat easier now.
>
> On Windows it's click on the reddish 'Update Available' and relaunch after 
> it's downloaded. Can't get easier. It's only on Ubuntu where you click and 
> it says no can do and you have to mess around with snap. iirc you also 
> have to 'killall brave' since snap isn't very good at updating running 
> processes.

Note that I never said snap was good. For me, it's a wrong answer to a real
issue. But the reasons behind it are real.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#685946

On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Nobody want to install something from source anymore.

That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

> If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
> to install a working binary with it.

Nope. Just leave the building and packaging to the distro maintainers. 
That’s something they know how to do.

>> The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry
>> around all its dependencies with it,
> 
> On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore.

The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do
a better job of keeping these dependencies up to date than the distro
maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.

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#685954

Le 15-02-2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
>
> That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer.

>> If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
>> to install a working binary with it.
>
> Nope. Just leave the building and packaging to the distro maintainers. 
> That’s something they know how to do.

No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer. (bis)

>>> The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry
>>> around all its dependencies with it,
>> 
>> On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore.
>
> The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do
> a better job of keeping these dependencies up to date than the distro
> maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.

No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer. (ter)

The developers don't care about the dependencies of the distros, they
care about the dependencies needed by their code. And believing the
maintainers of the distro know every dependency of all the packages they
manage is unrealistic. 

And, by the way, believing that FOSS developers are better than
proprietary developers is just stupid. There is no rule that says: if
you are good you develop FOSS for free and if you are bad you are paid
to develop.

I know, it's easier to refuse the reality and to despise everything that
doesn't conform to your vision. As long as you don't work near a
developer it's safe. But your view of it is just garbage and you
shouldn't share it like if it's the only obvious truth.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#685970

On 15 Feb 2025 22:36:39 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
> developer.

Not sure what that’s supposed to mean. There are a couple of packages in 
the standard Debian repo with my name on them; do I count as an “unknown 
developer” to you?

Debian is huge: I think there’s something like 50,000 packages in the 
standard repo. You think there are that number of famous-name developers 
out there?

Remember also that each distro includes all the tools for maintenance of 
the distro itself, as open source, in its standard repo. It is usually 
quite easy for users to create their own add-on repos, with additional 
packages not available in the standard distribution -- Ubuntu PPAs are one 
well-known example of this.

And from there, it’s not a big step, if there is sufficient demand, for a 
package to migrate from an “unofficial” repo to an “official” one.

This is how the Open Source community works. Everything comes from those 
who choose to contribute, not from those who just sit on their bums and 
complain.

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#686022

Le 16-02-2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
> On 15 Feb 2025 22:36:39 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
>> developer.
>
> Not sure what that’s supposed to mean.

It means that if a well known developer was creating a new software, the
package managers can take care of it. But if nobody hear about a
developer the package managers won't take care of his software if they
aren't already well spread. Either the software is well spread or the
developer is already known, if none of them are 

> There are a couple of packages in the standard Debian repo with my
> name on them; do I count as an “unknown developer” to you?

OK, so your packages are released in Debian. How about Ubuntu? How about
Mint? How about Archlinux? How about Guix? How about Fedora? If I want
to use your packages, I need to install Debian and if I want to use
packages managed only by Fedora, I need to have both distros installed at
the same time and switch between them? That's why there are so many
people switching between distros?

> Debian is huge: I think there’s something like 50,000 packages in the 
> standard repo.

It's nothing compared with the number of softwares available on github,
gitlab and others like gnu. For example, where is the package for
icecat? 
<https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/>
So what are the Debian package managers doing? Like I said, a lot of
requirements are needed before a software is packaged by a distro. And
before that, the software developer needs a way to distribute it.

> You think there are that number of famous-name developers out there?

The famous is not the only requirement. Contributing to a well spread
software is enough when you aren't famous. But for the new software to
become well spread, it needs to have a way to be distributed. So, we're
back at the beginning : either the developer spend all of his time for
it to be managed by all package managers or he is using an easy way to
deploy it everywhere. Which is the purpose of all the things you refuse
to see the point.

> Remember also that each distro includes all the tools for maintenance of 
> the distro itself, as open source, in its standard repo. It is usually 
> quite easy for users to create their own add-on repos, with additional 
> packages not available in the standard distribution -- Ubuntu PPAs are one 
> well-known example of this.

Yes, using ppa for ubuntu, using aur for archlinux, and using everything
for every distro and we're back at the beginning: the programmer spend
more time to distribute it than to develop it. Or he's using a method
which you refuse to see the purpose.

> And from there, it’s not a big step, if there is sufficient demand, for a 
> package to migrate from an “unofficial” repo to an “official” one.

Yes, for one distro. But there are dozens of popular distros.

> This is how the Open Source community works.

s/is/was/

> Everything comes from those who choose to contribute, 

Yes, they contribute: they develop softwares and are using new ways to
provide them to the community.

> not from those who just sit on their bums and complain.

I'm not complaining. You are the one complaining about snap/flatpack and
others. You say it's useless, I'm telling you why it's not. I'm not
saying snap and flatpack are good: I'm saying the reasons behind them are
real.

And the reasons behind NixOS, Guix and immutable distro like Silverblue
are the same but seen by the package maintainers. They all disagree with
you. Maybe their solutions are bad, but anyway, they do them because
there is a real pain with the way you are promoting.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#685978

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> 
>> Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
> 
> That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.

Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Eagles may soar but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!"

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#685989

On 16 Feb 2025 00:36:12 GMT, vallor wrote:

> ... time for a git pull ...

I never do git-pull.

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#686003

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 01:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vorff9$9j1b$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 16 Feb 2025 00:36:12 GMT, vallor wrote:
> 
>> ... time for a git pull ...
> 
> I never do git-pull.

Well, whatever you do to get the latest pan.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "One way to better your lot is to do a lot better..."

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#685994

On 2025-02-16, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> 
>>> Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
>> 
>> That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
>
> Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)
>
I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.

I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.


-- 
pothead

Why did Joe Biden pardon his family?
Read below to learn the reason.
The Biden Crime Family Timeline here:
https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/

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#685997

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>On 2025-02-16, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:
>>> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
>>> 
>>> That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
>>
>> Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)
>>
>I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
>It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
>but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
>like message not found.
>
>I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
>it does not work.


This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
hobbyware BS like Pan?  Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in
terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

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#686007

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:13:48 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
<0bi2rjtfpg16d2fmbfbjkn4hn2nmqoobji@4ax.com>:

> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>On 2025-02-16, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>> On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
>>>
>>> Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)
>>>
>>I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
>>It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
>>but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
>>like message not found.
>>
>>I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
>>it does not work.
> 
> 
> This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
> hobbyware BS like Pan?  Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in
> terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.

Pan is not "hobbyware", any more than the Linux kernel is.

It's also under continuous development.  The last Forte Agent
was released over 10 years ago.  Get a clue, noob.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Individualists of the world, UNITE!"

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