Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #680832 > unrolled thread

The problem with not owning the software

Started byCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
First post2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Last post2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 255 — 29 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy


Contents

  The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
      Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
        Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
              Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:46 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
                                                                  The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
                                                            [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
                                                              [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-05 11:05 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 13:29 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 13:53 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 15:08 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 10:17 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 10:28 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 11:26 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 12:34 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 12:40 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 14:23 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 16:27 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:05 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:50 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 16:16 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:46 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 11:36 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 18:58 -0500
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:59 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 02:18 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:41 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:08 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 13:54 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:26 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:43 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
    Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500

Page 8 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 … 13  Next page →


#683208

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
Message-ID<vlhrh2$1s86o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683199
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:23:47 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>>>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>>>> 
>>>> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages
>>>> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows.
>>> 
>>> That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How
>>> many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at
>>> once?
>> 
>> My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as
>> ready-to-use downloads.
> 
> But you did say you were “including building packages from source”. 

More to illustrate that building from source was possible. It wasn't the
default. 

> How 
> complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include all its 
> dependencies?

Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external
dependencies, but that was a while back. I don't do much of that kind of
stuff anymore. 


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683240

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
Message-ID<vli2ed$1t3lt$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683208
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 00:12:18 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> More to illustrate that building from source was possible.

I never said it wasn’t, just that it doesn’t scale well without a proper 
package manager to help with the dependencies -- something that macOS 
lacks.

>> How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include
>> all its dependencies?
> 
> Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external
> dependencies, but that was a while back.

How did you handle getting hold of the dependencies for each build?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683243

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
Message-ID<lu3i0uFodf6U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#683240
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 02:10:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 00:12:18 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> More to illustrate that building from source was possible.
> 
> I never said it wasn’t, just that it doesn’t scale well without a proper
> package manager to help with the dependencies -- something that macOS
> lacks.
> 
>>> How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include
>>> all its dependencies?
>> 
>> Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external
>> dependencies, but that was a while back.
> 
> How did you handle getting hold of the dependencies for each build?

Tarball Hell.  I haven't played that game in a long time thankfully. 
Usually 'apt install xxxxx' pulls what you need from the repositories 
rather than having to build every dependency back to when the dinosaurs 
roamed the earth. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683268

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
Message-ID<vljcor$281vn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683240
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 00:12:18 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> More to illustrate that building from source was possible.
> 
> I never said it wasn’t, just that it doesn’t scale well without a proper 
> package manager to help with the dependencies -- something that macOS 
> lacks.

It doesn't lack it, it's simply not part of the core OS as it is a niche
requirement. 

That's the beauty of an OSS community. Additional capabilities are
available to those who want/need them. 

>>> How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include
>>> all its dependencies?
>> 
>> Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external
>> dependencies, but that was a while back.
> 
> How did you handle getting hold of the dependencies for each build?

With a package manager, obviously. Firstly, macports and then homebrew. 

You're focusing on the exception rather than the rule, however. Installing
OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager *because* most
software is already packaged for easy installation. Either via the
developer themselves or the App Store. 

If you are expert enough to want to install stuff from source then you can
on macos with the help of Homebrew. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683307

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
Message-ID<vlknnv$2fte8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683268
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 14:12:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager
> *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation.

Including its dependencies? So if multiple packages share the same 
dependency, you end up with multiple copies of that dependency?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683350

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
Message-ID<vlluie$2q228$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683307
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 14:12:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager
>> *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation.
> 
> Including its dependencies? So if multiple packages share the same 
> dependency, you end up with multiple copies of that dependency?

Depends on the dependency, but often yes. Just like on Windows and,
sometimes, Linux with pre-packaged/compiled software. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683417

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
Message-ID<vlmqlr$2vb42$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683350
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 13:28:46 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 14:12:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager
>>> *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation.
>> 
>> Including its dependencies? So if multiple packages share the same
>> dependency, you end up with multiple copies of that dependency?
> 
> Depends on the dependency, but often yes. Just like on Windows and,
> sometimes, Linux with pre-packaged/compiled software.

That’s one of the things package managers are designed to handle properly.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682877 — [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
Subject[OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<1r5nz09.lm4w1u8x2u7zN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#682862
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

[silent megasnip, tsk]

> > [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint
> > it all "just works".
> >
>
> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>

I don't feel that need.  Why would I want to do that when I have a
penguin flavoured VM?  In any case, 99% of Mac users have absolutely 
no need for open-source s/w but any user with such an esoteric
requirement knows how to deal with it.

There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than the
ability to run open-source.  Get real!

--
^Ï^.    Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS         My pet rock Gordon just is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682901 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vlcslg$nnc8$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682877
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than the
> ability to run open-source.  Get real!

The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is 
crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer any 
getting away from it. It underlies everything.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682906 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<1r5o3l0.eg07bf14jfqflN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#682901
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
> 
> > There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
> > the ability to run open-source.  Get real!
> >
>
> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer 
> any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
>

Maybe so, but you've missed the point that the users (those 99% 
of people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need 
to know that nor do they care about it.  Their requirements are
transparently (for them) catered for by existing software.
 
-- 
^Ï^.    Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS         My pet rock Gordon just is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682925 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vld9u6$tkj5$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682906
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>> 
>>> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
>>> the ability to run open-source.  Get real!
>>>
>> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
>> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
>> any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
>>
> Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of
> people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know
> that nor do they care about it.

Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never 
look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed 
bonnets?

Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any 
competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the 
manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would 
be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more 
likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be 
replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free-
market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of 
market products.

Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682935 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<rGveP.448746$0O61.357629@fx15.iad>
In reply to#682925
On 2025-01-05 01:47, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
>>>> the ability to run open-source.  Get real!
>>>>
>>> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
>>> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
>>> any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
>>>
>> Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of
>> people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know
>> that nor do they care about it.
> 
> Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never
> look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed
> bonnets?
> 
> Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any
> competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the
> manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would
> be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more
> likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be
> replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free-
> market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of
> market products.
> 
> Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.

There is absolutely nothing I can disagree with there. Your example is 
especially significant since my brother and sister in law decided to 
make Audi their favourite car brand a few years ago in response to my 
wife's decision to buy a luxury car for her work (she needed to be 
presentable). They are jealous people who always feel the need to one-up 
us even though we're not competing with them in any way. Anyway, they 
could barely afford the car so when it came time to fix it, the wife 
decided to have her husband fix it himself rather than go to the 
dealership or a competent mechanic. He quickly realized that unlike the 
Chevrolet and Hyundai they owned before, the Audi required special tools 
to open it up. Similarly, it needed non-standard parts for the repair 
itself. Clearly, such practical people should have bought from a company 
which allows people to fix the vehicles themselves, but that wouldn't 
have provided them the second or two of satisfaction at the thought they 
might have made us jealous.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683386 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vlmc6g$2s93h$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682935
On 1/5/2025 8:20 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:


> the Audi required special tools to open it up. Similarly, it 
> needed non-standard parts for the repair itself.


My wife had an A4, and now has a Q5.  Great cars, but for those reasons 
you mentioned I probably wouldn't ever buy one.

She absolutely insists on paying the stealership outrageous amounts for 
simple servicing - it makes her feel good, even though I could do most 
of it for the cost of a few special tools and parts.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#683401 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<D4AfP.63891$oCrf.5107@fx33.iad>
In reply to#683386
On 2025-01-08 12:21, DFS wrote:
> On 1/5/2025 8:20 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
> 
>> the Audi required special tools to open it up. Similarly, it needed 
>> non-standard parts for the repair itself.
> 
> 
> My wife had an A4, and now has a Q5.  Great cars, but for those reasons 
> you mentioned I probably wouldn't ever buy one.
> 
> She absolutely insists on paying the stealership outrageous amounts for 
> simple servicing - it makes her feel good, even though I could do most 
> of it for the cost of a few special tools and parts.

If you lease the cars, you can avoid all those servicing costs. It's 
part of why my wife and I leased for such a long time with Infiniti. 
However, I actually like this new QX60 and will probably just buy it 
after three years. I was reluctant to buy the previous one because the 
model was known for its unreliable CVT, but this one's got a nine-speed 
automatic.

-- 
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682888

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
Message-ID<IZleP.16280$YXj.12982@fx34.iad>
In reply to#682862
On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
> 
>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
>> all "just works".
> 
> Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
> software turns into a complete nightmare.

I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's 
storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682890 — [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
Subject[OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<1r5o1m0.17kz7ud4927t7N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#682888
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
 
[big snip]

> >> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
> >> all "just works".
> >>
> >  
> > Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
> > like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
> > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
> > software turns into a complete nightmare.
> >
>
> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>

Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.

-- 
^Ï^.    Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS         My pet rock Gordon just is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682904 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<MImeP.224552$DPl.6768@fx13.iad>
In reply to#682890
On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>   
> [big snip]
> 
>>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
>>>> all "just works".
>>>>
>>>   
>>> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
>>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
>>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>>>
>>
>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>>
> 
> Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.

Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works; 
they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking 
wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who 
would wish to do such things are peons.

Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that 
I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I 
purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how 
easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find 
MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise 
for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682908 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

From-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Date2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vlcuki$ndi8$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682904
On 1/4/25 10:08 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>> [big snip]
>>
>>>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
>>>>> all "just works".
>>>>>
>>>> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for 
>>>> something
>>>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality 
>>>> that is
>>>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
>>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>>>
>>
>> Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.
> 
> Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works; 
> they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking 
> wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who 
> would wish to do such things are peons.


Reminds me of a friend who sends me an email 2x/year that's a copy of 
the report of the latest chemical analysis from his car's most recent 
oil change:  dude, its fine that you want your car to last, but its not 
going to be preserved in a museum!


> Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that 
> I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I 
> purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how 
> easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find 
> MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise 
> for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go 
through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore, 
because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.


-hh

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682933 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vldtc9$10lk8$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682908
-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> <snip>
>
> I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go 
> through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore, 
> because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.

Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me).

The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later
usage.

(I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever
power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

-- 
In Columbia, Pennsylvania, it is against the law for a pilot to tickle
a female flying student under her chin with a feather duster in order
to get her attention.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682959 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

From-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Date2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vle93v$13ci0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682933
On 1/5/25 7:19 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> -hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> 
>> <snip>
>>
>> I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
>> through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
>> because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.
> 
> Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
> box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me). 
> 
> The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

For hardware that's only ~10 years old, sure.

But in this case I was thinking further back in time, such as in the 
1990s where things like CPU speeds increased by +30% every ~9 months. 
That high rate of change (vs today's) is what motivated a lot of us to 
DIY incremental hardware upgrades.

> The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later
> usage.
> 
> (I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever
> power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

Similarly, I've got a Vista box sitting around right now from an 
"Estate" clean-out of a familymember's home; not sure that anyone knows 
its Admin password...but it does have an SSD that I recall that I had 
installed sometime before 2013.  Keeping it around to potentially make a 
Linux based NAS appliance out of it, but part of that question will be 
to see how many internal SATA drives it can support to see if its really 
worth bothering much with, to repurpose a stack of old small 4TB drives 
that are on the "don't throw away yet" old hardware pile.

-hh

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 8 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 … 13  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.advocacy


csiph-web