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GNU/Linux System Clock Drift

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  GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-08 19:18 +0000
    Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-09 19:50 +0000
      Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 15:56 -0400
    Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-05-09 21:19 +0000
      Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 17:25 -0400
        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:23 +0000
          Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-05-10 10:25 +0000
            Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 19:51 +0000
              Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-10 21:55 +0000
              Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-11 19:00 +0000
      Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-10 10:59 +0000
        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 07:03 -0400
        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-05-10 12:58 +0000
          Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-10 13:29 +0000
            Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:26 -0400
              Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-05-10 16:09 +0000
                Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-10 21:40 +0000
                  Re: Farley Fucktard brags about setting his clock (was: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift) Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-05-11 14:51 +0000
                    Re: Farley Fucktard brags about setting his clock (was: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift) Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-05-11 15:40 +0000
                      Re: Farley Fucktard brags about setting his clock (was: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 15:02 -0400
                Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:26 +0000
                  Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-05-16 20:32 +0000
                    Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 13:41 -0700
              Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-11 07:02 -0400
                Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 08:01 -0400
                  Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-11 09:24 -0400
                    Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 15:01 -0400
                      Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-11 16:14 -0400
                        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 16:21 -0400
                          Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 03:39 -0400
                            Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 03:45 -0400
                              Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 04:14 -0400
                                Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 04:26 -0400
                                  Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 09:27 -0400
                                Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-12 10:26 +0000
                                  Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 09:28 -0400
                                    Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-12 14:05 +0000
                                      Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 10:27 -0400
                                        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-12 14:51 +0000
                                          Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Scott Doty <doty@dooty.net> - 2025-05-12 11:00 -0400
                                            Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 12:01 -0400
                                          Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 11:03 -0400
                                        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-12 20:30 -0400
                        Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-11 20:28 -0400
                          Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 20:32 -0400
                            Re: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift Rudy Canoza <rudy.c@kone.net> - 2025-05-12 03:40 -0400

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#690105 — GNU/Linux System Clock Drift

How much does your system clock (not hardware clock) drift?

I boot my GNU/Linux machines regularly and at each boot I set
the system clock (and also the hardware clock) from the time
servers at NIST using openrdate:

https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate

Openrdate will report a drift of about 0.7 seconds per day for all
of my machines.

How much does your system clock drift?

Of course, using a standalone desktop workstation, such drift
is of no consequence.  I could set the system clock far more
frequently but what the fuck for?

How much does your system clock drift?

Can the distro lackeys even know?

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!



-- 
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#690116

Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 19:18 this Thursday (GMT):
> How much does your system clock (not hardware clock) drift?
>
> I boot my GNU/Linux machines regularly and at each boot I set
> the system clock (and also the hardware clock) from the time
> servers at NIST using openrdate:
>
> https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate
>
> Openrdate will report a drift of about 0.7 seconds per day for all
> of my machines.
>
> How much does your system clock drift?
>
> Of course, using a standalone desktop workstation, such drift
> is of no consequence.  I could set the system clock far more
> frequently but what the fuck for?
>
> How much does your system clock drift?
>
> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>
> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!


I believe most distros set the hardware clock automatically based on the
UTC time fetched from ntp, so hw clock drift would be fixed
automatically anyways.. unless you're offline for an extended time.
-- 
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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#690117

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
>Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 19:18 this Thursday (GMT):

>> How much does your system clock (not hardware clock) drift?
>>
>> I boot my GNU/Linux machines regularly and at each boot I set
>> the system clock (and also the hardware clock) from the time
>> servers at NIST using openrdate:
>>
>> https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate
>>
>> Openrdate will report a drift of about 0.7 seconds per day for all
>> of my machines.
>>
>> How much does your system clock drift?
>>
>> Of course, using a standalone desktop workstation, such drift
>> is of no consequence.  I could set the system clock far more
>> frequently but what the fuck for?
>>
>> How much does your system clock drift?
>>
>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>>
>> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
>I believe most distros set the hardware clock automatically based on the
>UTC time fetched from ntp, so hw clock drift would be fixed
>automatically anyways.. unless you're offline for an extended time.


I like how Larry thinks this is such a big pwn, in fact your response
is right on the money, if his dumb ass would get a real distro he
wouldn't have to concern himself with this idiocy, because the distro
would periodically handle the errors in the clock.  He makes
everything 1000 times as hard as it needs to be, because he's a
fucking jerk-off fuckface.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

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#690119

Le 08-05-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
> How much does your system clock (not hardware clock) drift?

For my hardware,  don't know and I don't care. For my system: it doesn't
drift. The ntp is there to prevent it. And it works fine out of the box.

> I boot my GNU/Linux machines regularly and at each boot I set
> the system clock (and also the hardware clock) from the time
> servers at NIST using openrdate:
>
> https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate
>
> Openrdate will report a drift of about 0.7 seconds per day for all
> of my machines.

All of your machines drift at the same level? It's hard to believe. It
mostly look like you made up the value.

> How much does your system clock drift?

I told you: it doesn't. Even my watch, not connected to Internet,
doesn't drift as much as your machines. You should learn how to manage
your system properly.

> Of course, using a standalone desktop workstation, such drift
> is of no consequence.  I could set the system clock far more
> frequently but what the fuck for?

If you don't care, why do you bring the subject?

> How much does your system clock drift?

For the third time, my system doesn't drift. Why do you ask the same
question three time if it's of no consequence?

> Can the distro lackeys even know?

Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
works more properly than your computers. You should remember the simple
sentence: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#690120

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>Le 08-05-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
>
>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>
>Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
>works more properly than your computers. You should remember the simple
>sentence: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Burn!  You used an American English saying that way, despite being
French, and Larry is just left to feel like a fucking lame loser,
which he apparently will always be.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#690123

On Fri, 09 May 2025 17:25:03 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>>Le 08-05-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
>>
>>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>>
>>Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
>>works more properly than your computers. You should remember the simple
>>sentence: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
> 
> 
> Burn!  You used an American English saying that way, despite being
> French, and Larry is just left to feel like a fucking lame loser, which
> he apparently will always be.

There is the equally important 'if you don't understand it, don't fuck 
with it.'

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#690130

Le 10-05-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
> On Fri, 09 May 2025 17:25:03 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>>>Le 08-05-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>>>
>>>Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
>>>works more properly than your computers. You should remember the simple
>>>sentence: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
>> 
>> 
>> Burn!  You used an American English saying that way, despite being
>> French, and Larry is just left to feel like a fucking lame loser, which
>> he apparently will always be.
>
> There is the equally important 'if you don't understand it, don't fuck 
> with it.'

This one wouldn't work with LP/DP/FR/whatever because, even if every
message proves the opposite, he is sure he understands everything on his
computers.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#690146

On 10 May 2025 10:25:56 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> This one wouldn't work with LP/DP/FR/whatever because, even if every
> message proves the opposite, he is sure he understands everything on his
> computers.

Dunning-Kruger.  Half the time I'm in fake it till you make it mode. There 
are things like dbus that I give a wide berth to. For that matter I'm not 
too sure what freedesktop does for a living other than Fedora updates it 
frequently. As long as it works I don't care if it's init.d, systemd, 
Xorg, Wayland, or any of the other stuff some people get exercised about.

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#690149

On 10 May 2025 19:51:44 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> As long as it works I don't care if it's init.d, systemd, 
> Xorg, Wayland, or any of the other stuff some people get exercised about.
>

That's because you are just a fatuous freeloader.

A true computing craftsman and connoisseur, however, takes an
extremely active role in the inner workings of his machine.



-- 
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#690167

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote at 19:51 this Saturday (GMT):
> On 10 May 2025 10:25:56 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> This one wouldn't work with LP/DP/FR/whatever because, even if every
>> message proves the opposite, he is sure he understands everything on his
>> computers.
>
> Dunning-Kruger.  Half the time I'm in fake it till you make it mode. There 
> are things like dbus that I give a wide berth to. For that matter I'm not 
> too sure what freedesktop does for a living other than Fedora updates it 
> frequently. As long as it works I don't care if it's init.d, systemd, 
> Xorg, Wayland, or any of the other stuff some people get exercised about.


I prefer Xorg, mostly because of some old x apps I use and the X
compatibility being a bit shaky.
-- 
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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#690131

On 09 May 2025 21:19:57 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> For my system: it doesn't drift. 
>

Yes it does.  All PCs will drift.


>
>The ntp is there to prevent it. And it works fine out of the box.
> 

That's the lackey answer.

The lackey doesn't know, doesn't care, and allows the distro
to do it all for him. 

Because of the large numbers of lackeys that use GNU/Linux
many fine programs such as openrdate are going unmaintained:

https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate


> 
>> How much does your system clock drift?
> 
> I told you: it doesn't. 
>

And I told you that it does.

 
>> How much does your system clock drift?
> 
> For the third time, my system doesn't drift.
> 

For the third time, yes it does.



>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
> 
> Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
> works 
>

Then you admit that you are a lackey.

Now listen.  This group is intended for GNU/Linux _advocates_ and an
advocate is someone who knows and cares.

A lackey cannot be an advocate, so get out of here and don't come
back.




-- 
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#690132

Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>On 09 May 2025 21:19:57 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> For my system: it doesn't drift. 
>
>Yes it does.  All PCs will drift.
>
>>The ntp is there to prevent it. And it works fine out of the box.
>
>That's the lackey answer.
>
>The lackey doesn't know, doesn't care, and allows the distro
>to do it all for him. 
>
>Because of the large numbers of lackeys that use GNU/Linux
>many fine programs such as openrdate are going unmaintained:
>
>https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate
>
>>> How much does your system clock drift?
>> 
>> I told you: it doesn't. 
>
>And I told you that it does.
>
>>> How much does your system clock drift?
>> 
>> For the third time, my system doesn't drift.
>
>For the third time, yes it does.
>
>>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>> 
>> Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
>> works 
>
>Then you admit that you are a lackey.
>
>Now listen.  This group is intended for GNU/Linux _advocates_ and an
>advocate is someone who knows and cares.
>
>A lackey cannot be an advocate, so get out of here and don't come
>back.


Shut the fuck up.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#690138

Le 10-05-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
> On 09 May 2025 21:19:57 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> For my system: it doesn't drift. 
>
> Yes it does.  All PCs will drift.

Nonononono. You precisely said you were speaking about systems and not
about hardware. All hardware drift, yes. But that wasn't your question:
you were precise about that. So, if you don't know the difference
between your system and your hardware, don't be precise.

>>The ntp is there to prevent it. And it works fine out of the box.
>
> That's the lackey answer.

No, that's the technical correct answer. I already explained it to you
a long time ago but you are unable to learn anything.

> The lackey doesn't know, doesn't care, and allows the distro
> to do it all for him. 

For a fact, you are the one who don't care. You wrote it. I care about
my system drift and I let it handle correctly my hardware drift. Can you
spot the difference?

> Because of the large numbers of lackeys that use GNU/Linux
> many fine programs such as openrdate are going unmaintained:
>
> https://github.com/resurrecting-open-source-projects/openrdate

It's unmaintained because it's useless: ntp does a fine job by default.
No need for a tool which let the system drift and correct it from time
to time (maybe it does better than that: I don't have time to check all
of your obsolete tools).

>>> How much does your system clock drift?
>> 
>> I told you: it doesn't. 
>
> And I told you that it does.

Because you don't understand how ntp works. But it doesn't prove you are
right: it proves you are clueless about how modern computers work.

>>> How much does your system clock drift?
>> 
>> For the third time, my system doesn't drift.
>
> For the third time, yes it does.

For the third time, you are wrong. My hardware drift, yes, but you
precisely said it wasn't about it. It's about my system, which doesn't
drift because ntp cares about my hardware drift. I know it's a little
bit difficult for you to understand. Read it again and again, it should
become clear sometime. You could also check about ntp, but I guess it's
too difficult for you.

>>> Can the distro lackeys even know?
>> 
>> Of course I know. And a default ntp configuration of any distro lackey
>> works 
>
> Then you admit that you are a lackey.

I admit nothing. You consider anyone except you to be a lackey, so there
is no point arguing about that. I manage my computer, but a lot of
people don't care about how their system work: they just need to surf on
Internet, read their emails and see their grandchild from time to time.
There is nothing wrong about that except in your vision of the world.
But your vision is shit, so there is nothing to argue about it. I'm only
using simple words you are able to understand. And in these simple
words, their default system work better than your clumsy joke of a
computer.

> Now listen.  This group is intended for GNU/Linux _advocates_ and an
> advocate is someone who knows and cares.

I know and care. But I'm telling you: a lot of people outside of this
group don't care and their computers are better managed than yours.

> A lackey cannot be an advocate, 

For a fact, I met a lot of people switching from Windows to Linux being
better advocates of Linux than you (which is not very difficult, I can
concede). So, no, a lackey can be a very good advocate.

> so get out of here and don't come back.

You already said that, I'll answer the same: I do what I want and you
are powerless about it: your imaginary killer friends can't stop me,
your lack of brain can't stop me. You can repeat yourself as much as you
want: I'll stop coming here when I decide, not when you tell me to.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#690140

On 10 May 2025 12:58:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>>
>> Yes it does.  All PCs will drift.
> 
> Nonononono. You precisely said you were speaking about systems and not
> about hardware.
>

Yesyesyesyesyes.

The implication, as any INTELLIGENT person would discern, is that
any PC that is running GNU/Linux will drift in both the hardware
clock and the system clock.

The original question was: "How much drift?"

But you cannot answer because you don't control your own system.
Your distro does all the work.  You are just a helpless observer.

I should also ask: "Does the clock correction include leap seconds?"

Again, you cannot answer.  You could not ever know if your system time
includes leap seconds or not.

You are BLIND and HELPLESS.  Your distro is your guide dog:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_dog





-- 
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#690142

Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>On 10 May 2025 12:58:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>>> Yes it does.  All PCs will drift.
>> 
>> Nonononono. You precisely said you were speaking about systems and not
>> about hardware.
>
>Yesyesyesyesyes.
>
>The implication, as any INTELLIGENT person would discern, is that
>any PC that is running GNU/Linux will drift in both the hardware
>clock and the system clock.
>
>The original question was: "How much drift?"
>
>But you cannot answer because you don't control your own system.
>Your distro does all the work.  You are just a helpless observer.
>
>I should also ask: "Does the clock correction include leap seconds?"
>
>Again, you cannot answer.  You could not ever know if your system time
>includes leap seconds or not.
>
>You are BLIND and HELPLESS.  Your distro is your guide dog:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_dog


Get a fucking life, sheesh.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#690145

> Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>On 10 May 2025 12:58:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes it does.  All PCs will drift.
>>> 
>>> Nonononono. You precisely said you were speaking about systems and not
>>> about hardware.
>>
>>Yesyesyesyesyes.
>>
>>The implication, as any INTELLIGENT person would discern, is that
>>any PC that is running GNU/Linux will drift in both the hardware
>>clock and the system clock.

No, you really don't understand. The hardware drift, there is no way
around that. We both agree.

Now, the solution is to check for an atomic clock who doesn't drift
because at the same time it's more precise and there are more than one
clock, so they can average the drift and stay stable. We both agree with
that.

That being said:
- your solution is the stupid one: you put the atomic time instead of
  the old wrong time. On a workstation it's not very important. But it's
  not good because when you check the logs, your system can go backward
  in time or shift as if nothing happened during some time. As long as
  you don't care about your system, you can live with it. But there
  exist better alternatives one of which is, guess what: ntp.
- the ntp solution is the smart one. Instead of changing brutally the
  clock with a nasty shift in the logs, it estimates the shift. And it
  compensate to, at the same time, get the clock on time, avoid
  shifts in the logs and avoid further shift on the system. So, on the
  long run, a system managed by ntp doesn't drift.

How difficult can that be to understand? Even for you, it should be
easy. It works out of the box: just let the system do the default job
and it doesn't drift. Your system drifts because you mess with it: not
because you know better, but because you can't understand the basics.

The hardware drifts, yes, there is no way around. But the system can
estimate its drift and compensate for it. So, once again, unlike your
beliefs, my hardware drift but my system doesn't.

>>The original question was: "How much drift?"

Yes, and I answered that many times: it doesn't.

>>But you cannot answer because you don't control your own system.

Unlike you, I answered. My system doesn't drift. It's the right answer.
You don't accept it because it's far above your limited capacities, but
I answered it nevertheless.

And, when you say that all of your computers drift by 0.7s each day, I
don't believe it. At the same time it's huge for a modern clock and
there is no reason for all of your computers to drift that much at the
same level. So you have no clue about how your computers drift.

>>Your distro does all the work.

And it does it well. Unlike yours because you broke it.

>> You are just a helpless observer.

You'd love to be a helpless observer because, unlike me, you know your
system drift and you have no clue about it. You don't know how to
estimate it because you wouldn't need to put the same unbelievable
number for all of your computers. And you don't know how to handle it
because you would be using ntp like every sane person.

So, you can't observe anything because you don't know how to do it. And
you don't know how to fix the issue you have because you are too proud
to learn. Good job.

>>I should also ask: "Does the clock correction include leap seconds?"

Of course, ntp hadn't be created by you: it has been created by people
who know what they do.

>>Again, you cannot answer.  You could not ever know if your system time
>>includes leap seconds or not.

Of course my system does include leap seconds. There is nothing
difficult about it. The leap seconds are managed by atomic clocks, so
each time ntp checks the time, if a leap second have been included, it is
taken into account. There is nothing special to do about it. Globally,
there is less than a leap second by year, so there is nothing to say
about it.

Why do you try to make simple things look like they are complicated when
you don't even manage the basics?

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#690148

On 10 May 2025 16:09:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> 
> The hardware drifts, yes, there is no way around. But the system can
> estimate its drift and compensate for it. So, once again, unlike your
> beliefs, my hardware drift but my system doesn't.
> 

Both the hardware and system clocks will drift.

The hardware clock is maintained by the BIOS.

The system clock is maintained by counting the timer interrupts
and there are adjustments that can make this more accurate but
it will still drift.

That's why there is synchronization, usually, but not only,
with NTP time servers.

The issue becomes how often does the system clock need to be
synchronized.  I do this at each boot using openrdate.  The
distros probably do it much more often.  I could also do it
more often but I choose not to do so.

There is no need for me to sync frequently.  File time stamps
will never be more than a second or two off and that is of no
consequence.

But the important fact is that _I_ choose to do it.  I do not
follow any distro but make my own decisions.


> 
> Of course my system does include leap seconds. 
>

What does this command output:

TZ='/usr/share/zoneinfo/GMT' date +%s --date="May 10 2025"

It should output "1746835227."  If not then your system does
not include leap seconds.





-- 
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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#690165 — Re: Farley Fucktard brags about setting his clock (was: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift)

On May 10, 2025 at 5:40:00 PM EDT, "Farley Flud" <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

> On 10 May 2025 16:09:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> 
>> 
>> The hardware drifts, yes, there is no way around. But the system can
>> estimate its drift and compensate for it. So, once again, unlike your
>> beliefs, my hardware drift but my system doesn't.
>> 
> 
> Both the hardware and system clocks will drift.

All consumer grade clocks drift. This is like asking "how much does your clock
on the stove drift?"

> The hardware clock is maintained by the BIOS.

No, the hardware clock is maintained by a motherboard clock chip and a
battery.  

> The system clock is maintained by counting the timer interrupts
> and there are adjustments that can make this more accurate but
> it will still drift.

Upon bootup, the system clock is first set to the hardware clock. Later on,
both get set by the call to NTP.  

> That's why there is synchronization, usually, but not only,
> with NTP time servers.
> 
> The issue becomes how often does the system clock need to be
> synchronized.  I do this at each boot using openrdate.  The
> distros probably do it much more often.  I could also do it
> more often but I choose not to do so.

All real OSes do this. It is automatic.  There is no need to be concerned
about it. I am looking at this Mac (Unix), a few iPads (Unix), an iPhone (Unix
again), 3 Windows 10 PCs, a Windows Server 2012 R2 and a Windows 11 PC. All
clocks are perfectly in sync with each other. 

How do you suppose that happens?  Do you think I am manually fiddling with the
25 or so computers in this house to get them all in sync?

> There is no need for me to sync frequently.  File time stamps
> will never be more than a second or two off and that is of no
> consequence.

There is no need for you to do anything manually.  Let the OS do its job. The
fact that your cobbled together, boxless pile of shit hardware on the shelf
running your cobbled together shit software does not do this automatically
tells us all we need to know about your alleged computer skills.

> But the important fact is that _I_ choose to do it.  I do not
> follow any distro but make my own decisions.

The important fact is that you are a dumbass who thinks having a computer
means more things to do manually.  You should look up the word "automation".

Doing trivial things manually - like setting the clock - does not make you a
"man".  It just proves - yet again - that you are a clueless dweeb.

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#690166 — Re: Farley Fucktard brags about setting his clock (was: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift)

On Sun, 11 May 2025 14:51:52 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

Tyrone emerges from his closet yet again.

He must smell the gas that comes out of my ass, but that can't
be right.  I am a vegetarian.  My shit does not stink.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!


> 
>> The hardware clock is maintained by the BIOS.
> 
> No, the hardware clock is maintained by a motherboard clock chip and a
> battery.  
> 

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Tyrone enters the doughnut shop and asks for a dozen doughnuts.

The clerk gives him a box of twelve and Tyrone says: I asked for 
a fucking dozen!

The clerk knows he has yet another idiot on his hands

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!


> 
> All real OSes do this. It is automatic.
>

Nope.  The OS (in this case GNU/Linux) doesn't do a goddamned fucking
thing.

The OS (i.e. kernel) passes control to the distro which then does all
of the configuration.

Without his distro, Tyrone would be stuck in the year 2025 BCE.

Oh wait.

Never mind.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!


> 
> The important fact is that you are a dumbass who thinks having a computer
> means more things to do manually.  You should look up the word "automation".
> 

Tyrone should look up the word "idiot."

The digital computer cannot do a goddamned fucking thing unless it is
given a set of instructions, i.e. a program.

The provider of the program can be a distro or it can be the individual
user.

But a provider must exist or else one can only dream upon a brick.

Of course Tyrone cannot distinguish his dreams from reality.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!



>
> Doing trivial things manually - like setting the clock - does not make you a
> "man".
>

But relying upon "automation" makes Tyrone an automaton.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

He'll have to look that one up.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!



-- 

Systemd: Solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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#690169 — Re: Farley Fucktard brags about setting his clock (was: GNU/Linux System Clock Drift)

Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> wrote:

>I am a vegetarian.


Oh man ...

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

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