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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #689406 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000 |
| Articles | 18 on this page of 258 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 12:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-25 05:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-25 19:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-25 15:38 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 00:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-24 13:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-25 12:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-25 23:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 00:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 01:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 07:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 10:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-26 05:53 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:18 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:45 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:05 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:11 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:08 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-02 20:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 09:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 09:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 18:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-05 11:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:40 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-04 14:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-04 11:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-05 18:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 14:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 20:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:29 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 10:39 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 10:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:36 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 14:04 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 15:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 19:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 00:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 03:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-08 10:02 -0400
Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-07 04:18 +0000
Re: Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 00:56 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 07:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-07 17:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-08 07:06 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:23 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 02:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 07:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 22:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-04-27 09:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-28 08:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:49 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:42 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 18:51 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:26 +0000
Re: Evolution (was Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-26 08:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:46 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 07:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:30 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:49 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 18:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 20:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 21:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 17:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 22:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 19:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 00:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 00:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 18:22 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 01:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 08:53 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 13:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 21:03 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 06:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:14 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 15:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 08:56 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 16:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 09:48 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:05 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 17:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 11:01 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 19:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 23:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 16:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 07:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 08:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:32 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 19:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:46 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 17:20 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 01:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-24 18:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 20:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:04 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 17:26 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:57 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-24 21:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:58 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 00:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7ajpvFq366U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689581 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 07:42:25 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in <slrn100ucb4.cuiu.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home>: > On 2025-04-27, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 4/27/25 02:45, RonB wrote: >>> On 2025-04-26, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> On 4/25/25 23:00, RonB wrote: >>>>> On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but >>>>>>>> you can't just throw out decades of work and break it because its >>>>>>>> hard. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody >>>>>>> does, then yes, the existing developers are quite justified in >>>>>>> saying “that’s not worth it, let’s just drop it”. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >>>>>> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs >>>>>> work on what the want to work on, not what people need. >>>>>> >>>>>> In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make >>>>>> sense, but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and >>>>>> again. We also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. >>>>> >>>>> Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they >>>>> knew better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they >>>>> knew better than the user what the *should* want. That's basically >>>>> why Linux Mint took off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users >>>>> wanted, not Gnome 3 or Unity. >>>> >>>> In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Gnome 3's way of doing >>>> things, and it is at the core of a few desktop environments. As for >>>> Unity and Mir, I liked the interface of Unity enough to seek it out >>>> in Ubuntu's iteration of Gnome, and Mir was a step in the right >>>> direction. >>>> Had Wayland not already have been in development, I doubt people >>>> would have had such a negative opinion of Canonical's decision to >>>> move away from X11. >>> >>> Not me. Never liked either Unity or Gnome 3. I also don't like that >>> customization of Gnome 3 was always an afterthought, with add-ons that >>> broke with each release. Gnome developers seemed to have had a "take >>> it or leave it," mindset. It's gotten a bit better over time but, >>> still, when you ask about moving the top bar to the bottom, and ask >>> why Gnome 3 doesn't a provide a method to do that, you get snarky >>> responses claiming this the top position is "somehow" superior. I >>> don't like it there, it feels "claustrophobic" to me. I always moved >>> the Gnome 2 bar to the bottom. Add-ins are supposed to fix this, but >>> usually they only work for such and such version and are often >>> abandoned. >> >> You're right about the extensions. I abandoned the idea of using them >> when I noticed that they ceased to function the moment the version of >> Gnome increased. >> >>> As for X11 vs Wayland, not quite sure how that fits in the Gnome 3 and >>> Unity vs Gnome 2 debate. >> >> It's not the same debate but a similar one. People hated on Mir simply >> because Canonical introduced it. The company is apparently not allowed >> to introduce its own technology if the community already developed >> something similar. For example, Snap is hated even though it came out >> before Flatpak did and is an improvement on AppImage. I'm not a fan of >> Snap myself (I prefer Flatpak because of the software library and how >> it updates), but I can't say that it's bad. > > I think the reason that people don't like Snaps is because Canonical > made the Snap servers proprietary, under their control. It goes against > the whole point of Linux, that it be open source. And I don't agree that > Snaps are better than AppImages. I prefer AppImages over both Snaps and > Flatpaks. This is indeed the case. You can't bring up your own snap server. Snaps are anti-free-software. I much prefer flatpaks, but rarely use even those. -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.4 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "Philosophy: unintelligible answers to insoluble problems"
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| From | % <pursent100@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-28 17:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <XMqcnbF8Kqmyho31nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #689637 |
vallor wrote: > On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 07:42:25 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> > wrote in <slrn100ucb4.cuiu.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home>: > >> On 2025-04-27, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> On 4/27/25 02:45, RonB wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-26, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>> On 4/25/25 23:00, RonB wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but >>>>>>>>> you can't just throw out decades of work and break it because its >>>>>>>>> hard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody >>>>>>>> does, then yes, the existing developers are quite justified in >>>>>>>> saying “that’s not worth it, let’s just drop it”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >>>>>>> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs >>>>>>> work on what the want to work on, not what people need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make >>>>>>> sense, but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and >>>>>>> again. We also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they >>>>>> knew better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they >>>>>> knew better than the user what the *should* want. That's basically >>>>>> why Linux Mint took off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users >>>>>> wanted, not Gnome 3 or Unity. >>>>> >>>>> In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Gnome 3's way of doing >>>>> things, and it is at the core of a few desktop environments. As for >>>>> Unity and Mir, I liked the interface of Unity enough to seek it out >>>>> in Ubuntu's iteration of Gnome, and Mir was a step in the right >>>>> direction. >>>>> Had Wayland not already have been in development, I doubt people >>>>> would have had such a negative opinion of Canonical's decision to >>>>> move away from X11. >>>> >>>> Not me. Never liked either Unity or Gnome 3. I also don't like that >>>> customization of Gnome 3 was always an afterthought, with add-ons that >>>> broke with each release. Gnome developers seemed to have had a "take >>>> it or leave it," mindset. It's gotten a bit better over time but, >>>> still, when you ask about moving the top bar to the bottom, and ask >>>> why Gnome 3 doesn't a provide a method to do that, you get snarky >>>> responses claiming this the top position is "somehow" superior. I >>>> don't like it there, it feels "claustrophobic" to me. I always moved >>>> the Gnome 2 bar to the bottom. Add-ins are supposed to fix this, but >>>> usually they only work for such and such version and are often >>>> abandoned. >>> >>> You're right about the extensions. I abandoned the idea of using them >>> when I noticed that they ceased to function the moment the version of >>> Gnome increased. >>> >>>> As for X11 vs Wayland, not quite sure how that fits in the Gnome 3 and >>>> Unity vs Gnome 2 debate. >>> >>> It's not the same debate but a similar one. People hated on Mir simply >>> because Canonical introduced it. The company is apparently not allowed >>> to introduce its own technology if the community already developed >>> something similar. For example, Snap is hated even though it came out >>> before Flatpak did and is an improvement on AppImage. I'm not a fan of >>> Snap myself (I prefer Flatpak because of the software library and how >>> it updates), but I can't say that it's bad. >> >> I think the reason that people don't like Snaps is because Canonical >> made the Snap servers proprietary, under their control. It goes against >> the whole point of Linux, that it be open source. And I don't agree that >> Snaps are better than AppImages. I prefer AppImages over both Snaps and >> Flatpaks. > > This is indeed the case. You can't bring up your own snap server. > > Snaps are anti-free-software. I much prefer flatpaks, but rarely > use even those. > and your posts still look the same here
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 01:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7ao7vF6juoU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689638 |
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 17:20:03 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in <XMqcnbF8Kqmyho31nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>: > and your posts still look the same here You've sent the same post 4 or 5 times now. They all look the same. -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.4 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "For reply, send a self-abused stomped antelope to:"
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 02:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7at89F7bi1U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689637 |
On 29 Apr 2025 00:11:43 GMT, vallor wrote: > This is indeed the case. You can't bring up your own snap server. > > Snaps are anti-free-software. I much prefer flatpaks, but rarely use > even those. Between Fedora and Ubuntu I have some of each. For example Brave exists both as a snap and a flatpak. They both work and are both a 1.77.100. VS Code is a deb on Raspberry Pi OS, a rpm on Fedora, and a snap on Ubuntu. They're all 1.93.3 and work (although I did have to drop back from the Pi 5 kernel optimizations). I have some things that are Appimages on Ubuntu and flatpaks on Fedora like the Arduino IDE v2. Same version, both work. Seeing a thread here? I really don't care how it happens as long as it does on all my Linus and Windows boxes. I only get upset when it doesn't work. For example Raspberry Pi OS uses a GNOME 2 fork and I can't find a gVim that works. My work Debian box is 32 bit, and there is no 32 bit VS Code.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-29 13:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn1011l20.46v.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689637 |
On 2025-04-29, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: > On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 07:42:25 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> > wrote in <slrn100ucb4.cuiu.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home>: > >> On 2025-04-27, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> On 4/27/25 02:45, RonB wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-26, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>> On 4/25/25 23:00, RonB wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but >>>>>>>>> you can't just throw out decades of work and break it because its >>>>>>>>> hard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody >>>>>>>> does, then yes, the existing developers are quite justified in >>>>>>>> saying “that’s not worth it, let’s just drop it”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >>>>>>> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs >>>>>>> work on what the want to work on, not what people need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make >>>>>>> sense, but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and >>>>>>> again. We also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they >>>>>> knew better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they >>>>>> knew better than the user what the *should* want. That's basically >>>>>> why Linux Mint took off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users >>>>>> wanted, not Gnome 3 or Unity. >>>>> >>>>> In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Gnome 3's way of doing >>>>> things, and it is at the core of a few desktop environments. As for >>>>> Unity and Mir, I liked the interface of Unity enough to seek it out >>>>> in Ubuntu's iteration of Gnome, and Mir was a step in the right >>>>> direction. >>>>> Had Wayland not already have been in development, I doubt people >>>>> would have had such a negative opinion of Canonical's decision to >>>>> move away from X11. >>>> >>>> Not me. Never liked either Unity or Gnome 3. I also don't like that >>>> customization of Gnome 3 was always an afterthought, with add-ons that >>>> broke with each release. Gnome developers seemed to have had a "take >>>> it or leave it," mindset. It's gotten a bit better over time but, >>>> still, when you ask about moving the top bar to the bottom, and ask >>>> why Gnome 3 doesn't a provide a method to do that, you get snarky >>>> responses claiming this the top position is "somehow" superior. I >>>> don't like it there, it feels "claustrophobic" to me. I always moved >>>> the Gnome 2 bar to the bottom. Add-ins are supposed to fix this, but >>>> usually they only work for such and such version and are often >>>> abandoned. >>> >>> You're right about the extensions. I abandoned the idea of using them >>> when I noticed that they ceased to function the moment the version of >>> Gnome increased. >>> >>>> As for X11 vs Wayland, not quite sure how that fits in the Gnome 3 and >>>> Unity vs Gnome 2 debate. >>> >>> It's not the same debate but a similar one. People hated on Mir simply >>> because Canonical introduced it. The company is apparently not allowed >>> to introduce its own technology if the community already developed >>> something similar. For example, Snap is hated even though it came out >>> before Flatpak did and is an improvement on AppImage. I'm not a fan of >>> Snap myself (I prefer Flatpak because of the software library and how >>> it updates), but I can't say that it's bad. >> >> I think the reason that people don't like Snaps is because Canonical >> made the Snap servers proprietary, under their control. It goes against >> the whole point of Linux, that it be open source. And I don't agree that >> Snaps are better than AppImages. I prefer AppImages over both Snaps and >> Flatpaks. > > This is indeed the case. You can't bring up your own snap server. > > Snaps are anti-free-software. I much prefer flatpaks, but rarely > use even those. > I only ever used two Flatpak programs. One was an authenticator program that gave you the 6 MFA digit codes. It needed to install 10s or 100s of megabytes of Flatpak dependencies for a basic GUI. I found a <100k CLI program and a script frontend that did the same thing, so I switched. The only other was Signal for Fedora, but that didn't even work.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 08:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100rppd.3vb.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689496 |
On 2025-04-26, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 4/25/25 23:00, RonB wrote: >> On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>>> >>>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't >>>>> just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. >>>> >>>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, then >>>> yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s not >>>> worth it, let’s just drop it”. >>> >>> >>> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >>> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on >>> what the want to work on, not what people need. >>> >>> In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make sense, >>> but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and again. We >>> also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. >> >> Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they knew >> better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they knew better >> than the user what the *should* want. That's basically why Linux Mint took >> off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users wanted, not Gnome 3 or >> Unity. > > In the end, a lot of people ended up liking Gnome 3's way of doing > things, and it is at the core of a few desktop environments. As for > Unity and Mir, I liked the interface of Unity enough to seek it out in > Ubuntu's iteration of Gnome, and Mir was a step in the right direction. > Had Wayland not already have been in development, I doubt people would > have had such a negative opinion of Canonical's decision to move away > from X11. > A lot of people also use their phones to type everything, despite it being a poor input device. But to each their own I suppose. I hated GNOME 3, moreso because it supplanted GNOME 2, which supplanted GNOME 1. GNOME 1, or 1.2 or 1.4 or whatever it was I was using with RedHat 7.3 was pretty cool. But they felt they should change my Desktop according to their vision, so I left.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 02:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100oit5.81kf.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689450 |
On 2025-04-25, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 2025-04-24 09:31, Borax Man wrote: >>> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>>> >>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>>> support. >>>> >>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>> >>>> Non-problem solved. >>>> >>> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >>> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but >>> the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 >>> pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some >>> X applications, and my Window Manager. >>> >>> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >>> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >>> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. >> >> I went to Ubuntu specifically because I wanted Wayland (for touchpad >> gestures) and a proper support for the NVIDIA proprietary driver. The >> only issues I have are that the audio becomes distorted when using >> speakers and an external _if_ I play a game in Heroic Games Launcher >> (but there's no reason to believe it's Wayland anyway since the problem >> does not occur if I don't use an external monitor or speakers) and I >> can't add a bookmark directly into the sidebar in Brave (it could be a >> Brave issue but it doesn't occur in the same version of Brave used on >> Cinnamon and X11). Other than that, it's better in every way. >> > > I don't have a problem with change, but don't break users workflows. > Don't break userspace. > > I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't > just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. > > There is a reason that C and C++ are still around, despite their issues. > There is a lot of work behind them, a lot of infrastructure, knowledge, > methods, code. There is a cost, a big cost in rebuilding everything > (re-write it in rust!), to just go back to where you were. q Windows > suffered because of its backwards compatibility, but it was also its > strength. The ONE thing I think Windows did better than Linux when I > shifted, was being able to run older and newer binaries. It meant > cruft, it meant extra work, but programs didn't break, and that was the > point of the OS. > > Users, not developers, end up deciding how the ecosystem work. That's why I think it's a plus, not a minus, to have many multiple Linux distributions. No one company can control Linux's future. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 18:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pan$286a4$4607728f$910ab23a$7ef7c986@linux.rocks> |
| In reply to | #689428 |
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some > X applications, and my Window Manager. > So true. The appalling lack of choice among the distros is one reason (but certainly not the only reason) that I decided to roll my own distro. > > The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all > the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples > workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. > They are lazy, undedicated fucks that just want to bask in the limelight of being a "progressive" GNU/Linux developer. GNU/Linux/FOSS is all about choice, but when systemd came along these lazy fucks did not desire to take upon their lame selves the job of offering choice. Rather, they took the path of least resistance and the path of most glamour. The same now applies to Wayland. Only Gentoo and Linux From Scratch (LFS) offer choice. Those developers should be lauded to the highest extent. -- Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 20:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m6vll8Fd6pcU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689428 |
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote in <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>: > On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >><https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>> >>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>> support. >> >> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >> >> Non-problem solved. >> > This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had > been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but > the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 > pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some > X applications, and my Window Manager. > > The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all > the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples > workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. I stopped using Fedora when they were removing code from openssl for which they claimed they weren't sure about a patent incumberance. It wasn't just flags in the SRPM that disabled elliptical-curve crypto, they actually took the code for ECC out of openssl. I jumped ship to Linux Mint, and I'm much happier for it. -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.3 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "Don't judge a book by its mini-series."
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| From | % <pursent100@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 14:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <DR-dndcAYLDsOpf1nZ2dnZfqnPYAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #689431 |
vallor wrote: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> > wrote in <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>: > >> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>> >>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>> support. >>> >>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>> >>> Non-problem solved. >>> >> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but >> the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 >> pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some >> X applications, and my Window Manager. >> >> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. > > I stopped using Fedora when they were removing code from openssl for which > they claimed they weren't sure about a patent incumberance. > > It wasn't just flags in the SRPM that disabled elliptical-curve crypto, > they actually took the code for ECC out of openssl. > > I jumped ship to Linux Mint, and I'm much happier for it. > why
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 17:26 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <N%xOP.2521401$2zn8.1576003@fx15.iad> |
| In reply to | #689432 |
On 4/24/25 17:04, % wrote: > vallor wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man >> <rotflol2@hotmail.com> >> wrote in <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>: >> >>> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>>> >>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>>> support. >>>> >>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through >>>> with this, >>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>> >>>> Non-problem solved. >>>> >>> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >>> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but >>> the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 >>> pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some >>> X applications, and my Window Manager. >>> >>> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >>> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >>> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. >> >> I stopped using Fedora when they were removing code from openssl for >> which >> they claimed they weren't sure about a patent incumberance. >> >> It wasn't just flags in the SRPM that disabled elliptical-curve crypto, >> they actually took the code for ECC out of openssl. >> >> I jumped ship to Linux Mint, and I'm much happier for it. >> > why From what he wrote above, I would imagine that it is because Clément Lefebvre of Linux Mint doesn't remove code from openssl for made-up reasons. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 21:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m6vpo3Fd6pcU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689432 |
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 14:04:44 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in <DR-dndcAYLDsOpf1nZ2dnZfqnPYAAAAA@giganews.com>: > vallor wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man >> <rotflol2@hotmail.com> >> wrote in <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>: >> >>> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>>> >>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 >>>>> session support. >>>> >>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through >>>> with this, >>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>> >>>> Non-problem solved. >>>> >>> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >>> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, >>> but the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating >>> X11 pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it >>> breaks some X applications, and my Window Manager. >>> >>> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything >>> all the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break >>> peoples workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. >> >> I stopped using Fedora when they were removing code from openssl for >> which they claimed they weren't sure about a patent incumberance. >> >> It wasn't just flags in the SRPM that disabled elliptical-curve crypto, >> they actually took the code for ECC out of openssl. >> >> I jumped ship to Linux Mint, and I'm much happier for it. >> > why Because when I realized Red Hat was telling the Fedora maintainers to remove code from openssl, that Fedora wasn't the kind of distro I wanted to run. I was also tired of using rpmfusion to supplement what was missing from Fedora -- little things, like being able to play mp3's. The closest I've gotten to Fedora since then was to boot a live version of Nobara, which was disastrous. Linux Mint "just works". -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.3 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "Gargle twice daily - see if your neck leaks."
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 21:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m6vpt7Fd6pcU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689434 |
On 24 Apr 2025 21:45:39 GMT, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote in <m6vpo3Fd6pcU2@mid.individual.net>: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 14:04:44 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in > <DR-dndcAYLDsOpf1nZ2dnZfqnPYAAAAA@giganews.com>: > >> vallor wrote: >>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man >>> <rotflol2@hotmail.com> >>> wrote in <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>: >>> >>>> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>>>> >>>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 >>>>>> session support. >>>>> >>>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through >>>>> with this, >>>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>>> >>>>> Non-problem solved. >>>>> >>>> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >>>> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, >>>> but the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating >>>> X11 pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it >>>> breaks some X applications, and my Window Manager. >>>> >>>> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything >>>> all the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break >>>> peoples workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. >>> >>> I stopped using Fedora when they were removing code from openssl for >>> which they claimed they weren't sure about a patent incumberance. >>> >>> It wasn't just flags in the SRPM that disabled elliptical-curve >>> crypto, >>> they actually took the code for ECC out of openssl. >>> >>> I jumped ship to Linux Mint, and I'm much happier for it. >>> >> why > > Because when I realized Red Hat was telling the Fedora maintainers to > remove code from openssl, that Fedora wasn't the kind of distro I wanted > to run. > > I was also tired of using rpmfusion to supplement what was missing from > Fedora -- little things, like being able to play mp3's. > > The closest I've gotten to Fedora since then was to boot a live version > of Nobara, which was disastrous. Linux Mint "just works". Correction: I still have an old server running Fedora. But I'm planning to decommission it, and I already have the new hardware for it, a newer SuperMicro SuperServer. -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.3 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "Computer Lie #1: You'll never use all that disk space."
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| From | % <pursent100@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 14:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <tNCcnRIE-ppBLpf1nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #689435 |
vallor wrote: > On 24 Apr 2025 21:45:39 GMT, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote in > <m6vpo3Fd6pcU2@mid.individual.net>: > >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 14:04:44 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in >> <DR-dndcAYLDsOpf1nZ2dnZfqnPYAAAAA@giganews.com>: >> >>> vallor wrote: >>>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man >>>> <rotflol2@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote in <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>: >>>> >>>>> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 >>>>>>> session support. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through >>>>>> with this, >>>>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>>>> >>>>>> Non-problem solved. >>>>>> >>>>> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >>>>> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, >>>>> but the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating >>>>> X11 pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it >>>>> breaks some X applications, and my Window Manager. >>>>> >>>>> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything >>>>> all the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break >>>>> peoples workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. >>>> >>>> I stopped using Fedora when they were removing code from openssl for >>>> which they claimed they weren't sure about a patent incumberance. >>>> >>>> It wasn't just flags in the SRPM that disabled elliptical-curve >>>> crypto, >>>> they actually took the code for ECC out of openssl. >>>> >>>> I jumped ship to Linux Mint, and I'm much happier for it. >>>> >>> why >> >> Because when I realized Red Hat was telling the Fedora maintainers to >> remove code from openssl, that Fedora wasn't the kind of distro I wanted >> to run. >> >> I was also tired of using rpmfusion to supplement what was missing from >> Fedora -- little things, like being able to play mp3's. >> >> The closest I've gotten to Fedora since then was to boot a live version >> of Nobara, which was disastrous. Linux Mint "just works". > > Correction: I still have an old server running Fedora. But I'm planning > to decommission it, and I already have the new hardware for it, a > newer SuperMicro SuperServer. > well it jhasn't changed your usenet posts and how they look here
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 21:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuebsq$2fgbi$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689428 |
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all > the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples > workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. Every open-source project lives or dies, not by its popularity among some number of passive users, but by the activity of the community that contributes back to it.
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| From | % <pursent100@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 14:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <tNCcnQ0E-pqZKZf1nZ2dnZfqnPsAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #689436 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. > > Every open-source project lives or dies, not by its popularity among some > number of passive users, but by the activity of the community that > contributes back to it. > his posts look just the same to me
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 01:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100lpc2.15it.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689436 |
On 2025-04-24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 13:31:51 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. > > Every open-source project lives or dies, not by its popularity among some > number of passive users, but by the activity of the community that > contributes back to it. Linux Mint is doing well because of that activity. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100lp7d.15it.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689428 |
On 2025-04-24, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >><https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>> >>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>> support. >> >> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >> >> Non-problem solved. >> > This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had > been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but > the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 > pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some > X applications, and my Window Manager. > > The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all > the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples > workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. I haven't used Fedora enough to see much breakage, but the laptop I (was) running it on is pretty generic. I don't like the constant updates either. Never really needed "cutting edge." -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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