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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #689406 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 258 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 12:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-25 05:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-25 19:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-25 15:38 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 00:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-24 13:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-25 12:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-25 23:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 00:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 01:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 07:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 10:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-26 05:53 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:18 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:45 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:05 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:11 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:08 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-02 20:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 09:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 09:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 18:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-05 11:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:40 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-04 14:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-04 11:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-05 18:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 14:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 20:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:29 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 10:39 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 10:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:36 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 14:04 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 15:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 19:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 00:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 03:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-08 10:02 -0400
Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-07 04:18 +0000
Re: Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 00:56 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 07:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-07 17:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-08 07:06 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:23 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 02:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 07:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 22:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-04-27 09:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-28 08:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:49 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:42 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 18:51 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:26 +0000
Re: Evolution (was Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-26 08:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:46 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 07:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:30 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:49 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 18:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 20:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 21:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 17:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 22:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 19:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 00:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 00:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 18:22 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 01:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 08:53 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 13:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 21:03 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 06:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:14 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 15:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 08:56 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 16:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 09:48 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:05 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 17:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 11:01 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 19:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 23:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 16:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 07:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 08:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:32 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 19:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:46 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 17:20 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 01:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-24 18:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 20:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:04 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 17:26 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:57 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-24 21:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:58 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400 |
| Subject | Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome |
| Message-ID | <oG5OP.1820195$BrX.647879@fx12.iad> |
<https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> Fedora 43 Change Proposal Filed For Removing GNOME X11 Packages: Wayland-Only GNOME Written by Michael Larabel in Fedora on 23 April 2025 at 06:15 AM EDT. 19 Comments FEDORAFollowing a lot of work in this direction toward the end goal of removing GNOME X11 support, this milestone may finally be acheived for the Fedora 43 cycle due out by the end of the year. A change proposal has been filed for removing the GNOME X11 packages in the repository and in turn making the GNOME desktop Wayland-only on Fedora Linux. Fedora developer Neal Gompa has filed the change proposal for Wayland-only GNOME with Fedora 43. All users of the GNOME X11 session would need to migrate to the GNOME Wayland session with the GNOME X11 packages to be removed, assuming all comes to pass. The change proposal still needs to be voted on by the Fedora Engineering and Steering Committee (FESCo) but this has been a long-sought goal for the developers involved. Considering the maturity of the GNOME Wayland session at this point, features like HDR only being supported under Wayland, and the lack of X11/X.Org Server maintenance, seeing this come to fruition for Fedora 43 wouldn't be the least bit surprising. Fedora with GNOME The change proposal notes: "As part of the upstream effort to remove X11 support from GNOME, Fedora will no longer include the GNOME X11 packages. The GNOME X11 session receives virtually no testing and little to no development. There has been active effort upstream for several years now to close out the remaining user experience blockers to dropping the X11 session code, and that work completed with GNOME 48. The upstream target is to drop it for GNOME 50, with it being disabled by default at compile time for GNOME 49. This Change effectively implements the GNOME 50 target in GNOME 49 because there is no one to support any issues with GNOME X11 upstream. The X11 session is already quite buggy, with serious unfixed issues in Mutter (like rhbz#2179566 and glgo#GNOME/mutter#3868) and recently Phoronix could not benchmark GNOME X11 vs Wayland because "GNOME on X11 wasn't even working due to bugs". Dropping the GNOME X11 session now allows us to reconcile with reality that the GNOME X11 session is simply not supported anymore (either by us or upstream GNOME)." By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session support. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 12:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100kcgb.ds7.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689406 |
On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> > > By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session > support. Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. Non-problem solved. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 09:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <YHqOP.851748$d51.752771@fx46.iad> |
| In reply to | #689422 |
On 2025-04-24 08:43, RonB wrote: > On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >> >> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >> support. > > Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, > adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. > > Non-problem solved. Yep. The only problem I have with Fedora is that it constantly breaks the NVIDIA driver. Otherwise, I'm in favour of them continuously improving the experience by phasing out older software. In the end, if people don't like the change away from X11, they can choose a variety of distributions that insist on keeping it. That's what great about Linux and its almost unlimited amount of choices. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 01:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100lp3o.15it.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689426 |
On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-04-24 08:43, RonB wrote: >> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>> >>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>> support. >> >> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >> >> Non-problem solved. > > Yep. The only problem I have with Fedora is that it constantly breaks > the NVIDIA driver. Otherwise, I'm in favour of them continuously > improving the experience by phasing out older software. In the end, if > people don't like the change away from X11, they can choose a variety of > distributions that insist on keeping it. That's what great about Linux > and its almost unlimited amount of choices. Yep. I'm not that crazy about IBM/Red Hat anyhow. CentOS was my first "I'm finally moving away from Windows" distribution. But Red Hat swallowed them up (well after I quit using CentOS, I should add). -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 05:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m70ju8Fhq2lU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689440 |
On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 01:25:12 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > Yep. I'm not that crazy about IBM/Red Hat anyhow. CentOS was my first > "I'm finally moving away from Windows" distribution. But Red Hat > swallowed them up (well after I quit using CentOS, I should add). https://fedoramagazine.org/the-fedora-project/ https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/linux/what-is-centos I wouldn't say Red Hat swallowed them up but they did manage to add confusion worthy of Redmond. CentOS was downstream of RHEL. CentOS Stream is now downstream of Fedora and upstream of RHEL with a three year major release cycle. Rocky Linux replaced CentOS as the downstream version of RHEL. At one time I used Red Hat Linux (prior to CentOS or RHEL). After the notorious gcc 2.96 release I switched to SuSE. https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.96.html They also had a Python version that broke some of our existing scripts. The original Red Hat was more like today's Fedora -- close to the cutting edge and probably not something you would want to use on a production machine.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 02:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100oilf.81kf.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689446 |
On 2025-04-25, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 01:25:12 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > >> Yep. I'm not that crazy about IBM/Red Hat anyhow. CentOS was my first >> "I'm finally moving away from Windows" distribution. But Red Hat >> swallowed them up (well after I quit using CentOS, I should add). > > https://fedoramagazine.org/the-fedora-project/ > https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/linux/what-is-centos > > I wouldn't say Red Hat swallowed them up but they did manage to add > confusion worthy of Redmond. CentOS was downstream of RHEL. CentOS Stream > is now downstream of Fedora and upstream of RHEL with a three year major > release cycle. Rocky Linux replaced CentOS as the downstream version of > RHEL. By "swallowed up" I mean Red Hat became the owner of CentOS. The trademarks were transferred to Red Hat and Red Hat employs CentOS' main developers. What was CentOS ended in 2021. Now they call it CentOS Stream and, as you say, it's now a distribution that fits between Fedora and Red Hat. Kind of a "beta" of Red Hat. When I used CentOS it was basically a Red Hat clone with branding removed. I know about Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux (and Oracle Linux) but Red Hat has made it harder to clone Red Hat now. (Although I think Rocky and AlmaLinux have figured out how to get around this.) > At one time I used Red Hat Linux (prior to CentOS or RHEL). After the > notorious gcc 2.96 release I switched to SuSE. > > https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.96.html > > They also had a Python version that broke some of our existing scripts. > The original Red Hat was more like today's Fedora -- close to the cutting > edge and probably not something you would want to use on a production > machine. It looks to me like Red Hat wants to try to control the future direction of Linux. Thankfully there are lots of other alternatives. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 19:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vugnn2$lr7u$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689440 |
On 2025-04-25, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 2025-04-24 08:43, RonB wrote: >>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>> >>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>> support. >>> >>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>> >>> Non-problem solved. >> >> Yep. The only problem I have with Fedora is that it constantly breaks >> the NVIDIA driver. Otherwise, I'm in favour of them continuously >> improving the experience by phasing out older software. In the end, if >> people don't like the change away from X11, they can choose a variety of >> distributions that insist on keeping it. That's what great about Linux >> and its almost unlimited amount of choices. > > Yep. I'm not that crazy about IBM/Red Hat anyhow. CentOS was my first "I'm > finally moving away from Windows" distribution. But Red Hat swallowed them > up (well after I quit using CentOS, I should add). > I haven't used Fedora in years but I agree with the other person (vallor?) that after install it seemed like there was a lot of work to install what I would consider basics and if I remember correctly, I needed to go outside the standard repos to install these. Also I never liked the default Fedora layout. To me it look rough and cheap looking. Yes I know it of course can be changed but it was one more less than polished item. I went LinuxMint, switched to MXLinux for a while and am now back with LinuMint and am very happy with it. With Linux there truly is something for everyone willing to poke around. -- pothead Liberalism Is A Mental Disease Treat it accordingly <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 15:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <QwROP.1378519$f81.724824@fx48.iad> |
| In reply to | #689464 |
On 4/25/25 15:27, pothead wrote: > On 2025-04-25, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-24 08:43, RonB wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>>> >>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>>> support. >>>> >>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>> >>>> Non-problem solved. >>> >>> Yep. The only problem I have with Fedora is that it constantly breaks >>> the NVIDIA driver. Otherwise, I'm in favour of them continuously >>> improving the experience by phasing out older software. In the end, if >>> people don't like the change away from X11, they can choose a variety of >>> distributions that insist on keeping it. That's what great about Linux >>> and its almost unlimited amount of choices. >> >> Yep. I'm not that crazy about IBM/Red Hat anyhow. CentOS was my first "I'm >> finally moving away from Windows" distribution. But Red Hat swallowed them >> up (well after I quit using CentOS, I should add). >> > I haven't used Fedora in years but I agree with the other person (vallor?) that > after install it seemed like there was a lot of work to install what I would > consider basics and if I remember correctly, I needed to go outside the standard > repos to install these. > Also I never liked the default Fedora layout. To me it look rough and cheap looking. > Yes I know it of course can be changed but it was one more less than polished item. > > I went LinuxMint, switched to MXLinux for a while and am now back with LinuMint and > am very happy with it. > With Linux there truly is something for everyone willing to poke around. Linux Mint does a wonderful job on my work computer. I can't complain other than I would have liked to have the touchpad gestures that are enabled by default in Wayland. Heck, through Linux Mint, the battery the cheapo laptop I got, which had 89% health, is suddenly up to 94 or 95%. It's a Linux miracle. Seriously though, I doubt that number is correct considering how it has over 600 cycles. Still, I used it for three hours today and it only lost 25% battery life during that time. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 00:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m72offFsbp1U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689464 |
On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 19:27:30 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote: > I haven't used Fedora in years but I agree with the other person > (vallor?) that after install it seemed like there was a lot of work to > install what I would consider basics and if I remember correctly, I > needed to go outside the standard repos to install these. > Also I never liked the default Fedora layout. To me it look rough and > cheap looking. I think the install came with most of what I would consider basics. There are things I install on every machine, Linux or Windows, like VS Code, a Arduino IDE, Gvim, Brave. or Postgres but I wouldn't call them basics. I run the KDE spin.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 13:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100kfa7.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689422 |
On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: ><https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >> >> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >> support. > > Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, > adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. > > Non-problem solved. > This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some X applications, and my Window Manager. The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-24 09:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1irOP.851750$d51.585824@fx46.iad> |
| In reply to | #689428 |
On 2025-04-24 09:31, Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>> >>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>> support. >> >> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >> >> Non-problem solved. >> > This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had > been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but > the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 > pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some > X applications, and my Window Manager. > > The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all > the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples > workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. I went to Ubuntu specifically because I wanted Wayland (for touchpad gestures) and a proper support for the NVIDIA proprietary driver. The only issues I have are that the audio becomes distorted when using speakers and an external _if_ I play a game in Heroic Games Launcher (but there's no reason to believe it's Wayland anyway since the problem does not occur if I don't use an external monitor or speakers) and I can't add a bookmark directly into the sidebar in Brave (it could be a Brave issue but it doesn't occur in the same version of Brave used on Cinnamon and X11). Other than that, it's better in every way. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 01:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100lp9l.15it.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689429 |
On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-04-24 09:31, Borax Man wrote: >> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>> >>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>> support. >>> >>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>> >>> Non-problem solved. >>> >> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but >> the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 >> pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some >> X applications, and my Window Manager. >> >> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. > > I went to Ubuntu specifically because I wanted Wayland (for touchpad > gestures) and a proper support for the NVIDIA proprietary driver. The > only issues I have are that the audio becomes distorted when using > speakers and an external _if_ I play a game in Heroic Games Launcher > (but there's no reason to believe it's Wayland anyway since the problem > does not occur if I don't use an external monitor or speakers) and I > can't add a bookmark directly into the sidebar in Brave (it could be a > Brave issue but it doesn't occur in the same version of Brave used on > Cinnamon and X11). Other than that, it's better in every way. Not for me it isn't. But that's the good thing about Linux. Lots of choices. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 12:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100mumt.dkd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689429 |
On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-04-24 09:31, Borax Man wrote: >> On 2025-04-24, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> <https://www.phoronix.com/news/F43-Change-Wayland-Only-GNOME> >>>> >>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>> support. >>> >>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>> >>> Non-problem solved. >>> >> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but >> the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 >> pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some >> X applications, and my Window Manager. >> >> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. > > I went to Ubuntu specifically because I wanted Wayland (for touchpad > gestures) and a proper support for the NVIDIA proprietary driver. The > only issues I have are that the audio becomes distorted when using > speakers and an external _if_ I play a game in Heroic Games Launcher > (but there's no reason to believe it's Wayland anyway since the problem > does not occur if I don't use an external monitor or speakers) and I > can't add a bookmark directly into the sidebar in Brave (it could be a > Brave issue but it doesn't occur in the same version of Brave used on > Cinnamon and X11). Other than that, it's better in every way. > I don't have a problem with change, but don't break users workflows. Don't break userspace. I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. There is a reason that C and C++ are still around, despite their issues. There is a lot of work behind them, a lot of infrastructure, knowledge, methods, code. There is a cost, a big cost in rebuilding everything (re-write it in rust!), to just go back to where you were. q Windows suffered because of its backwards compatibility, but it was also its strength. The ONE thing I think Windows did better than Linux when I shifted, was being able to run older and newer binaries. It meant cruft, it meant extra work, but programs didn't break, and that was the point of the OS. Users, not developers, end up deciding how the ecosystem work.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-25 23:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuh558$11toh$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689450 |
On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't > just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, then yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s not worth it, let’s just drop it”.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 00:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100obf3.pd6.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689469 |
On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't >> just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. > > Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, then > yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s not > worth it, let’s just drop it”. But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on what the want to work on, not what people need. In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make sense, but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and again. We also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 01:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuhcep$181un$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689478 |
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 00:50:43 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >> >>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you >>> can't just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. >> >> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, >> then yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s >> not worth it, let’s just drop it”. > > But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some > degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on > what the want to work on, not what people need. They’re doing it on their own time and with their own resources, after all. What right do you have to tell them what to do?
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 03:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100oj7u.81kf.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689479 |
On 2025-04-26, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 00:50:43 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >>> >>>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you >>>> can't just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. >>> >>> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, >>> then yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s >>> not worth it, let’s just drop it”. >> >> But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some >> degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on >> what the want to work on, not what people need. > > They’re doing it on their own time and with their own resources, after > all. What right do you have to tell them what to do? It's not a matter of what they *should* do, it's a matter of choosing something different that better fits your needs. If Fedora jettisons X11, I'll jettison Fedora. It's a matter of choice. With Linux you *can* choose what you prefer (unlike Windows or Macs). -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 07:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m73gk8F1dqbU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689486 |
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 03:03:25 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > It's not a matter of what they *should* do, it's a matter of choosing > something different that better fits your needs. If Fedora jettisons > X11, I'll jettison Fedora. It's a matter of choice. With Linux you *can* > choose what you prefer (unlike Windows or Macs). The KDE spin has been Wayland for some time. xclock works so maybe they still have XWayland. Ubuntu is also Wayland. For that matter 'loginctl show-session 1' on the RPi running Raspberry Pi OS also shows wayland for the type. The only possible problem I've seen was QGIS popped a warning that some dialogs might not render correctly but that's been fixed for a long time.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 08:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100p4s4.8if1.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689488 |
On 2025-04-26, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 03:03:25 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > >> It's not a matter of what they *should* do, it's a matter of choosing >> something different that better fits your needs. If Fedora jettisons >> X11, I'll jettison Fedora. It's a matter of choice. With Linux you *can* >> choose what you prefer (unlike Windows or Macs). > > The KDE spin has been Wayland for some time. xclock works so maybe they > still have XWayland. Ubuntu is also Wayland. For that matter 'loginctl > show-session 1' on the RPi running Raspberry Pi OS also shows wayland for > the type. > > The only possible problem I've seen was QGIS popped a warning that some > dialogs might not render correctly but that's been fixed for a long time. It's not that Fedora has chosen to default to Wayland that bothers me, it's that, if the vote goes "their" way (whoever "they" are), they'll take away the choice to use X11 when using Fedora. That's fine. I don't have to use with Fedora (and I won't if they do this). As for Wayland, I've run into a few issues with it. I could probably work around them but I don't see why that should be necessary. I'm definitely not going to move to KDE for a better Wayland experience. It's not that big of a deal, I just like choice and making my own decisions. So far Linux Mint, Debian and even Ubuntu still either default to or let me choose X11. (So far, even Fedora let's me choose X11, which I do.) -- Jesus sat with sinners: He didn't sin with them. Know the difference.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 03:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100oj38.81kf.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home> |
| In reply to | #689478 |
On 2025-04-26, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 12:06:53 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: >> >>> I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't >>> just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. >> >> Somebody has to come along and offer to do the work. If nobody does, then >> yes, the existing developers are quite justified in saying “that’s not >> worth it, let’s just drop it”. > > > But they ARE doing work. They're creating new stuff that lack some > degree of compatibility with the old. This is the problem, devs work on > what the want to work on, not what people need. > > In no one was willing to work on free software, that would make sense, > but people are working on reinventing the wheel again and again. We > also had Mir. TWO projects. Duplication. Kind of like Ubuntu trying to force Unity on everyone because "they knew better." Or Gnome making huge changes in Gnome 3 because they knew better than the user what the *should* want. That's basically why Linux Mint took off. Mate and Cinnamon were what a LOT of users wanted, not Gnome 3 or Unity. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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