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Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix

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  Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-08 23:23 +0000
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-08 23:43 +0000
      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:35 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:09 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 15:58 -0700
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 19:23 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 19:37 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 16:47 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 19:58 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 18:33 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 07:48 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 14:24 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 20:35 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 14:21 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 11:25 -0700
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-08 16:46 -0700
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple's OS IS in fact Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-09 00:56 +0000
      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-09 01:06 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-08 19:28 -0700
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 08:25 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-09 14:40 +0200
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 09:09 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <nunya@none.none> - 2026-10-09 14:41 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 11:00 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:21 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 17:11 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:17 +0000
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 17:13 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:38 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:12 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:29 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 22:09 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 15:45 -0700
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 09:10 -0700
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <nunya@none.none> - 2026-10-09 14:41 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 11:02 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 09:11 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 14:32 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 17:13 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 18:36 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-09 19:14 +0000
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 12:48 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 17:14 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 01:36 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 21:40 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:34 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:24 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:16 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 21:23 -0400
                            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:32 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 04:10 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 19:06 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:38 -0400
                      A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 12:42 -0700
                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:37 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:34 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 21:42 -0400
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:37 -0400
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:40 -0700
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 16:55 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:06 -0700
                                    Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 15:33 -0400
                                      Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:54 -0700
                                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:19 -0400
                                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 13:49 -0700
                                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-13 00:47 +0000
                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-11 07:41 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:44 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 16:57 -0400
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 04:23 +0000
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:29 -0400
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 07:07 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 07:11 -0400
                                    Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 07:51 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 18:54 +0000
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:07 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:25 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:12 -0400
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:09 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-10 12:17 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 12:43 -0700
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-11 07:49 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:45 -0700
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:29 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 20:24 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:40 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:35 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-10-09 18:36 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-10 12:13 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 20:21 +0000
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:36 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-11 03:57 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-10 01:08 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 22:27 -0400
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:14 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 17:44 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:16 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-10 21:32 +0000
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 23:03 +0000
                Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-11 00:18 +0000
                  Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 00:41 +0000
                    Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:38 -0700
                    Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:13 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:34 +0000
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 22:12 +0000
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:27 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:10 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:37 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:06 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:40 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 23:12 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 19:26 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:12 +0000
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 20:23 -0400
                            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 04:58 +0000
                              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 03:02 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:59 -0700
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:21 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 13:50 -0700
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:56 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-13 00:35 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:35 -0700

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#723622

On 2026-10-10 09:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
> 
>> On 2026-10-09 18:36, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 17:14:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> The first led to the second. That's all I will say. Without that
>>>> experience with UNIX, you probably wouldn't be as forgiving of Linux's
>>>> mediocrity.
>>>
>>> I think the only mediocrity involved is your inability to maintain a Linux
>>> OS.
>>
>> I know you won't understand this...
>>
>> ...like it won't even penetrate your brain...
>>
>> ...but almost NO ONE wants to have to "maintain" anything.
> 
> You let Apple and Windows "maintain" your machines?
> 
> I generally let Debian or Arch "maintain" my machines, though not
> automatically -- I decide when to kick off the updates.
As do I.

So your "ability" is down to you tapping "update" is it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#723664

Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On 2026-10-10 09:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
>> 
>>> On 2026-10-09 18:36, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 17:14:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The first led to the second. That's all I will say. Without that
>>>>> experience with UNIX, you probably wouldn't be as forgiving of Linux's
>>>>> mediocrity.
>>>>
>>>> I think the only mediocrity involved is your inability to maintain a Linux
>>>> OS.
>>>
>>> I know you won't understand this...
>>>
>>> ...like it won't even penetrate your brain...
>>>
>>> ...but almost NO ONE wants to have to "maintain" anything.
>> 
>> You let Apple and Windows "maintain" your machines?
>> 
>> I generally let Debian or Arch "maintain" my machines, though not
>> automatically -- I decide when to kick off the updates.
> As do I.
>
> So your "ability" is down to you tapping "update" is it?

Uh, no. Sometimes there are dependency issues as reported by the
front end "aptitude"; one looks at the various solutions and picks
one.

I also build apps from source code, decide to remove unnecessary
packages, clean out /var/cache/apt/archives/ (either by deletion
or "sudo apt clean".

I don't know about now, but in the old days the C: drive would
become full and thus some "maintenance" was required.

On the Company's machine, one had essentially no control over
"maintenance".

-- 
"Your stupidity, Allen, is simply not up to par."
    -- Dave Mack (mack@inco.UUCP)
"Yours is."
	-- Allen Gwinn (allen@sulaco.sigma.com), in alt.flame

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#723702

On 2026-10-11 04:49, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
> 
>> On 2026-10-10 09:17, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
>>>
>>>> On 2026-10-09 18:36, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 17:14:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The first led to the second. That's all I will say. Without that
>>>>>> experience with UNIX, you probably wouldn't be as forgiving of Linux's
>>>>>> mediocrity.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the only mediocrity involved is your inability to maintain a Linux
>>>>> OS.
>>>>
>>>> I know you won't understand this...
>>>>
>>>> ...like it won't even penetrate your brain...
>>>>
>>>> ...but almost NO ONE wants to have to "maintain" anything.
>>>
>>> You let Apple and Windows "maintain" your machines?
>>>
>>> I generally let Debian or Arch "maintain" my machines, though not
>>> automatically -- I decide when to kick off the updates.
>> As do I.
>>
>> So your "ability" is down to you tapping "update" is it?
> 
> Uh, no. Sometimes there are dependency issues as reported by the
> front end "aptitude"; one looks at the various solutions and picks
> one.
> 
> I also build apps from source code, decide to remove unnecessary
> packages, clean out /var/cache/apt/archives/ (either by deletion
> or "sudo apt clean".
> 
> I don't know about now, but in the old days the C: drive would
> become full and thus some "maintenance" was required.
> 
> On the Company's machine, one had essentially no control over
> "maintenance".
> 

Oh, so you DO need to be a mechanic.

Most people don't want that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#723593

On 2026-10-09 9:36 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 17:14:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> The first led to the second. That's all I will say. Without that
>> experience with UNIX, you probably wouldn't be as forgiving of Linux's
>> mediocrity.
> 
> I think the only mediocrity involved is your inability to maintain a Linux
> OS.

Using a computer should not involve dedicating a portion of your day to 
maintaining it. Nobody spends a few thousand dollars on the computer 
thinking that they should do regular oil changes and tire rotations. 
Buying a Mac is like buying a Lexus: you never have to worry about it 
turning on and getting to your destination. Linux, it seems, is aiming 
to be like a 1960s Fiat.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#723629

On Sat, 10 Oct 2026 07:29:41 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Using a computer should not involve dedicating a portion of your day to
> maintaining it. Nobody spends a few thousand dollars on the computer
> thinking that they should do regular oil changes and tire rotations.
> Buying a Mac is like buying a Lexus: you never have to worry about it
> turning on and getting to your destination. Linux, it seems, is aiming
> to be like a 1960s Fiat.

That sums up your mindset nicely. I change the oil in my Toyota every 5000 
miles and rotate the tires semi-annually. Some people prefer a carefree 
existence where they don't have to take responsibility for anything.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#723639

On 2026-10-10 4:24 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2026 07:29:41 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> Using a computer should not involve dedicating a portion of your day to
>> maintaining it. Nobody spends a few thousand dollars on the computer
>> thinking that they should do regular oil changes and tire rotations.
>> Buying a Mac is like buying a Lexus: you never have to worry about it
>> turning on and getting to your destination. Linux, it seems, is aiming
>> to be like a 1960s Fiat.
> 
> That sums up your mindset nicely. I change the oil in my Toyota every 5000
> miles and rotate the tires semi-annually. Some people prefer a carefree
> existence where they don't have to take responsibility for anything.

People tend to follow their vehicle's maintenance schedule. That is a 
reasonable thing to do. The problem is that the other vehicles require 
you to do that and fix the many problems that appear between those 
intervals... just like Linux does.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#723642

On 2026-10-10 13:24, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2026 07:29:41 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> Using a computer should not involve dedicating a portion of your day to
>> maintaining it. Nobody spends a few thousand dollars on the computer
>> thinking that they should do regular oil changes and tire rotations.
>> Buying a Mac is like buying a Lexus: you never have to worry about it
>> turning on and getting to your destination. Linux, it seems, is aiming
>> to be like a 1960s Fiat.
> 
> That sums up your mindset nicely. I change the oil in my Toyota every 5000
> miles and rotate the tires semi-annually. Some people prefer a carefree
> existence where they don't have to take responsibility for anything.

No.

EVERYONE who prefer not to have to do mundane tasks.

If you have the facility to change the oil...

...bully for you.

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#723563

On Oct 9, 2026, rbowman wrote
(in article <nisso8F6daqU5@mid.individual.net>):

> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 11:02:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
> > I like Lawrence, but he needs to move on from the idea that Linux and
> > open-source provides a superior experience to Apple and MacOS. People
> > have eyes and ears, and none of those people with vision and hearing
> > have looked at Linux and said "this is what I want."
>
> I have never used macOS but I have used AIX which is a certified UNIX V&
> and UNIX 03 OS. I prefer Linux.

Way Back At Ye Dawne Of Tyme the company I was then working for got a few 
AT&T UNIX PCs. They were magnificent: 10MHz Motorola 68010s, 4 incredible 
megabyte of RAM, 40 gigantic megabyte of disk, giant 12-inch greenscreen 
display, AT&T UNIX 3.5.x... Oh. Wait. They cost well past US$8,000 in 1985 
dollars. (The base machine, 512 kilobytes of RAM and a 10 MB disk, was over 
$5k...) It was big, bad, and ate IBM PC-ATs for lunch... We put Serious 
Software on them. They were evuentially replaced by Mac IIfxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_UNIX_PC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_IIfx

My next encounter with UNIX was A/UX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/UX 
running on a Mac server. That was full-out UNIX System V with a Finder for 
the shell, and the servers it ran on had an uptime of forever. Seriously, I 
shut them down a total of three times over four years.

After the AT&T devices and A/UX, my first look at Linux did not impress. I 
didn’t think much of the then available distros. Ubuntu is now usable.

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#723601

rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 11:02:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> I like Lawrence, but he needs to move on from the idea that Linux and
>> open-source provides a superior experience to Apple and MacOS. People
>> have eyes and ears, and none of those people with vision and hearing
>> have looked at Linux and said "this is what I want."
>
> I have never used macOS but I have used AIX which is a certified UNIX V& 
> and UNIX 03 OS. I prefer Linux. 

I used UNIX on a PDP-11 in the 1980's, later DOS, Windows, SunOS.
I prefer Linux.

I'm sure Macs are okay, though.

-- 
fortune: cpu time/usefulness ratio too high -- core dumped.

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#723627

On Sat, 10 Oct 2026 12:13:32 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
> 
>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 11:02:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> I like Lawrence, but he needs to move on from the idea that Linux and
>>> open-source provides a superior experience to Apple and MacOS. People
>>> have eyes and ears, and none of those people with vision and hearing
>>> have looked at Linux and said "this is what I want."
>>
>> I have never used macOS but I have used AIX which is a certified UNIX
>> V&
>> and UNIX 03 OS. I prefer Linux.
> 
> I used UNIX on a PDP-11 in the 1980's, later DOS, Windows, SunOS.
> I prefer Linux.
> 
> I'm sure Macs are okay, though.

I'm not familiar with Macs. As I've said, nobody ever wanted to pay me to 
write software for Apple products and I was never curious enough to buy 
one. I'm sure they're perfectly fine. Some Mac users however...

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#723636

On 2026-10-10 12:13 p.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):
> 
>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 11:02:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> I like Lawrence, but he needs to move on from the idea that Linux and
>>> open-source provides a superior experience to Apple and MacOS. People
>>> have eyes and ears, and none of those people with vision and hearing
>>> have looked at Linux and said "this is what I want."
>>
>> I have never used macOS but I have used AIX which is a certified UNIX V&
>> and UNIX 03 OS. I prefer Linux.
> 
> I used UNIX on a PDP-11 in the 1980's, later DOS, Windows, SunOS.
> I prefer Linux.
> 
> I'm sure Macs are okay, though.

That's entirely my point: Linux appeals to people who are already used 
to using UNIX-like operating systems. New users don't see its appeal the 
same way they would a machine from either Apple or one running Windows.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

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#723649

On Sat, 10 Oct 2026 20:36:15 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> That's entirely my point: Linux appeals to people who are already used
> to using UNIX-like operating systems. New users don't see its appeal the
> same way they would a machine from either Apple or one running Windows.

New users who don't want to learn anything new should stick with what they 
know. That covers a lot more than computer operating systems.

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#723571

On Oct 9, 2026 at 10:41:25 AM EDT, "Nick Charles" <nunya@none.none> wrote:

> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>> 
>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
>>>> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
>>>> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>
>>> 
>>> An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason?
>> 
>> The app is still in the App Store, so the reason remains current, yes.
>> 
>> And the fact that it mentions that it makes your precious Apple
>> platform “Linux-like“, rather than “Unix-like”, is like a delicious
>> icing on top of the cake.
>> 
>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>> 
>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran away
>> from that, didn’t you?
> 
> You claiming that MacOS is not Unix is not “pointing it out”.
> 
> The fact that MacOS IS Unix has been proven to you multiple times.   Right
> here in this thread.   Will you admit you are wrong?   Or will you run away
> again?

Oh look.   He ran away.   Again. 

SHOCKING!!!

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#723577

On 2026-10-09 9:08 p.m., Nick Charles wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2026 at 10:41:25 AM EDT, "Nick Charles" <nunya@none.none> wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
>>>>> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
>>>>> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>
>>>>
>>>> An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason?
>>>
>>> The app is still in the App Store, so the reason remains current, yes.
>>>
>>> And the fact that it mentions that it makes your precious Apple
>>> platform “Linux-like“, rather than “Unix-like”, is like a delicious
>>> icing on top of the cake.
>>>
>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>>
>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran away
>>> from that, didn’t you?
>>
>> You claiming that MacOS is not Unix is not “pointing it out”.
>>
>> The fact that MacOS IS Unix has been proven to you multiple times.   Right
>> here in this thread.   Will you admit you are wrong?   Or will you run away
>> again?
> 
> Oh look.   He ran away.   Again.
> 
> SHOCKING!!!

No, no, give him the benefit of the doubt. His UNIX-like operating 
system probably irreparably crashed as a result of an update.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

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#723624

On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 14:41:25 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>
>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>> away from that, didn’t you?
>
> You claiming that ... is not “pointing it out”.

The fact that only macOS got the official “Unix” certification, the
others did not.

Go on, run away from that ...

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#723531

On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:

> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
>>> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
>>> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>
>> 
>> An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason?
> 
> The app is still in the App Store, so the reason remains current, yes.

There or not you have yet to say why it matters.
> 
> And the fact that it mentions that it makes your precious Apple
> platform “Linux-like“, rather than “Unix-like”, is like a delicious
> icing on top of the cake.

How? Again, you make these proclamations and do a dance but never really get
to a point.

People tend to hear of Linux more than UNIX. Cool. Aaaaaaaand? What is the
point you are trying to make?
> 
>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
> 
> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran away
> from that, didn’t you?

They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do. And?

You say a lot but say nothing.

-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

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#723625

On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:

> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>
>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>> away from that, didn’t you?
>
> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
> And?

And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.

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#723630

On Oct 10, 2026 at 1:16:46 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<11ae6fe$222p3$2@dont-email.me>:

> On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>> 
>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>>> away from that, didn’t you?
>> 
>> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
>> And?
> 
> And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
> they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
> entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.

WindowServer for macOS runs in userland.

Springboard for iOS runs in userland.

They all use XNU Kernel.



-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

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#723631

On 10 Oct 2026 21:32:37 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:

> On Oct 10, 2026 at 1:16:46 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
> <11ae6fe$222p3$2@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>>>
>>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>>>> away from that, didn’t you?
>>>
>>> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
>>> And?
>>
>> And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
>> they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
>> entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.
>
> WindowServer for macOS runs in userland.

From <https://cleanmymac.com/blog/windowserver-mac-cpu-usage>:

    Think of [WindowServer] as macOS’s visual manager. It is not
    malware, and you cannot remove it.

I wonder why you “cannot remove it”, if it is truly entirely separate
from the OS kernel ...

> Springboard for iOS runs in userland.

From <https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/SpringBoard>:

    Springboard, or Home Screen is the standard application that
    manages the home screen of iOS and iPadOS devices. Other tasks
    include starting WindowServer, launching and bootstrapping
    applications and setting some of the device's settings on startup.

    A derivative of SpringBoard called Launchpad was introduced in
    Macs starting with Mac OS X Lion.

So it sounds more like a service manager, not a display server.

> They all use XNU Kernel.

What does “XNU” stand for, again?

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#723635 — Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix)

On Oct 10, 2026 at 7:03:18 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

> On 10 Oct 2026 21:32:37 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2026 at 1:16:46 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>> <11ae6fe$222p3$2@dont-email.me>:
>> 
>>> On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>>> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>>>>> away from that, didn’t you?
>>>> 
>>>> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
>>>> And?
>>> 
>>> And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
>>> they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
>>> entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.
>> 
>> WindowServer for macOS runs in userland.
> 
> From <https://cleanmymac.com/blog/windowserver-mac-cpu-usage>:
> 
>     Think of [WindowServer] as macOS’s visual manager. It is not
>     malware, and you cannot remove it.
> 
> I wonder why you “cannot remove it”, if it is truly entirely separate
> from the OS kernel ...
> 
>> Springboard for iOS runs in userland.
> 
> From <https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/SpringBoard>:
> 
>     Springboard, or Home Screen is the standard application that
>     manages the home screen of iOS and iPadOS devices. Other tasks
>     include starting WindowServer, launching and bootstrapping
>     applications and setting some of the device's settings on startup.
> 
>     A derivative of SpringBoard called Launchpad was introduced in
>     Macs starting with Mac OS X Lion.
> 
> So it sounds more like a service manager, not a display server.
> 
>> They all use XNU Kernel.
> 
> What does “XNU” stand for, again?

I am talking facts here.  You keep babbling your opinions. 

"macOS achieved UNIX certification in 2007 with the release of Mac OS X 10.5
Leopard under the Single UNIX Specification (SUS) by The Open Group. Despite
this, Apple retained the original 'XNU' name, which stands for 'X is Not
Unix,' a relic from its NeXTSTEP origins before macOS was UNIX-certified. This
has led to confusion, as the name suggests that XNU is separate from UNIX,
even though macOS, as a whole, is officially recognized as a UNIX operating
system."

YOU are simply confused.  Go whine to The Open Group. 

End of discussion.

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