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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #704019 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-01-02 21:11 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-01-03 21:03 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 267 — 27 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-02 21:11 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-02 16:42 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn�t feel chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-02 20:49 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-02 22:13 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 14:14 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2026-01-03 20:35 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 16:26 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-04 05:50 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 07:47 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-05 01:40 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-03 21:50 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-03 13:57 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 17:07 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-03 14:33 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 17:54 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-03 15:01 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 18:40 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-03 15:48 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 19:06 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 21:15 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:28 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:28 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:39 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 22:14 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 19:44 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 09:21 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-05 13:42 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 18:31 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-05 16:59 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 20:02 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-06 10:41 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 15:27 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-06 12:49 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 16:03 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-06 15:16 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Rudy Canoza <rudycanozaball@jollykone.edu> - 2026-01-07 07:52 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-07 09:53 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ (was: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 22:44 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 05:25 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ (was: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 13:47 +0000
Remember setting up Linux on an Apple iMac? "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-01-08 21:55 +0000
Re: Remember setting up Linux on an Apple iMac? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 22:27 +0000
Re: Remember setting up Linux on an Apple iMac? Nobody <djkaaa@eduv.com> - 2026-01-08 17:28 -0500
Re: Remember setting up Linux on an Apple iMac? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 22:35 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-06 18:17 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-07 09:14 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-12 15:50 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-13 06:28 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-13 09:32 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-13 19:46 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-13 15:54 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-13 22:29 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-13 14:50 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-01-13 18:14 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-13 23:45 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-01-14 09:25 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-14 17:39 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-14 20:47 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn�t feel like harassment? chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-14 15:12 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-14 14:27 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-01-16 21:37 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-14 17:11 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-14 22:46 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-15 08:44 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-15 01:12 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-15 08:40 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-15 21:18 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-15 14:55 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-16 06:54 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-23 06:01 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-23 13:45 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-13 13:45 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-13 15:05 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-13 14:06 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:29 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:33 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:41 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 22:33 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 19:48 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 09:27 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-06 11:42 -0800
Re: Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-17 08:31 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-17 14:15 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 17:42 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-17 14:56 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 18:30 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-17 18:04 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 13:44 -0500
Re: Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-17 22:47 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-17 14:56 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ (was: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 23:57 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-18 05:32 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 05:50 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-18 14:14 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 16:52 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2026-01-19 00:35 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-20 03:24 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2026-01-20 04:26 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 05:40 +0000
Re: Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-18 05:27 +0000
Re: Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ (was: Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 23:47 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC) Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-18 05:32 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 05:51 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ (was: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 23:44 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-20 03:24 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-01-20 09:07 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-20 07:21 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 14:35 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-20 21:23 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-20 20:20 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-21 03:14 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-21 09:00 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 15:43 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-21 14:27 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 19:41 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Sedona Pete <peterbuiltsedona@trux.net> - 2026-01-21 19:49 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Yeppo@nope.org - 2026-01-22 01:02 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 01:19 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 20:35 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 01:45 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-23 05:56 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’tfeel like harassment? (was: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’tfeel like harassment?) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 06:03 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-22 23:07 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-25 00:49 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 06:13 -0700
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 16:52 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Nobody <yourusernamehere@talk.net> - 2026-01-24 01:20 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 04:46 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 11:04 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 14:30 -0700
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 21:42 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 07:55 -0700
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 16:51 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 14:28 -0700
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 21:42 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-01-22 04:33 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 10:25 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-22 06:19 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 15:41 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-22 06:44 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-22 11:15 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-04 07:08 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 08:05 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-04 13:34 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 13:53 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:21 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-01-04 18:44 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 19:01 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:25 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-01-04 19:45 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:17 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:36 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 22:09 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 23:10 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-05 07:38 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-05 00:24 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-05 11:20 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 11:33 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 10:42 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 10:39 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-12 17:28 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-12 09:40 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-12 17:58 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-12 10:06 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-12 18:20 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-12 10:40 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 14:08 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-12 13:51 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-12 14:07 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-13 13:51 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-13 12:07 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-01-04 19:43 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:34 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:42 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 22:17 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 22:41 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-01-05 18:20 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-06 06:27 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-06 09:50 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-11 22:48 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-11 22:46 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-12 07:05 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-12 08:12 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-12 16:33 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-12 08:36 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-12 14:31 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-13 14:04 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-01-05 18:19 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:19 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-01-12 16:00 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:13 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 17:29 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-03 14:39 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 17:58 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 21:20 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:23 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-04 07:02 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’ Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:24 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn� chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 13:39 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn� chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 12:20 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:25 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 13:36 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:56 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 14:01 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-04 20:33 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 15:38 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 13:05 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 17:16 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 18:34 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:25 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 19:29 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:46 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 20:05 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 17:35 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 21:14 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:32 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 21:53 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-01-05 02:38 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-05 03:01 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn't feel like harassment? onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-01-05 03:24 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 22:28 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn't feel like harassment? onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2026-01-05 03:45 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn't feel like harassment? "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 23:10 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 20:25 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:32 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-05 06:38 -0600
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:53 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 14:43 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-04 01:20 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 20:26 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-04 02:25 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-03 22:50 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-04 13:25 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 13:46 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Rudy Canoza <rudycanozaball@jollykone.edu> - 2026-01-04 08:19 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 13:45 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Rudy Canoza <rudycanozaball@jollykone.edu> - 2026-01-04 13:48 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 21:26 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-04 02:49 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 11:55 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 18:21 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 16:27 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:22 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-04 18:36 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 21:59 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-05 03:26 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 22:42 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-05 03:51 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-04 23:15 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-05 10:28 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-01-05 17:47 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 12:54 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-06 15:26 -0800
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn' Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-01-06 15:24 -0800
Intel Raptor Lake CPU's chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-01-04 13:26 -0600
Re: Intel Raptor Lake CPU's Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2026-01-05 11:50 +0000
Re: Intel Raptor Lake CPU's "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 11:35 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-03 21:07 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-03 23:07 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-04 05:53 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-01-04 07:54 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-05 01:49 +0000
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-04 07:49 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-03 07:19 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-01-03 08:45 -0500
Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-03 21:03 +0000
Page 1 of 14 [1] 2 3 … 14 Next page →
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-02 21:11 +0000 |
| Subject | Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel like harassment? |
| Message-ID | <10j9c9q$mp8i$13@dont-email.me> |
Setting up a Windows machine is becoming more and more of an obstacle course filled with irritations and pain <https://www.theverge.com/tech/852448/remember-when-setting-up-a-windows-pc-didnt-feel-like-harassment>. But as long as the loyal Microsoft users keep giving their favourite company so much money, why should the leopard ever want to change its spots?
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-02 16:42 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn’t feel |
| Message-ID | <69583bc7$1$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #704019 |
On 2026-01-02 16:11, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > Setting up a Windows machine is becoming more and more of an obstacle > course filled with irritations and pain > <https://www.theverge.com/tech/852448/remember-when-setting-up-a-windows-pc-didnt-feel-like-harassment>. > > But as long as the loyal Microsoft users keep giving their favourite > company so much money, why should the leopard ever want to change its > spots? I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the questions and allow you to have a local account. If you create an ISO using MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and just enables all of the tracking and cloud features. It's truly unbearable. Still, I can tolerate all of it except the idiotic fTPM stuttering. -- CrudeSausage John 14:6 Pop_OS!
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-02 20:49 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didn�t feel |
| Message-ID | <2h0hlk5b5qh0ug88nis1iqefqho2gdeti0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #704023 |
CrudeSausage wrote: >I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is >tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the questions >and allow you to have a local account. If you create an ISO using >MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and just enables all >of the tracking and cloud features. When installing Win11 Pro, it's not that bad. Making a local account is no problem, and you can easily turn-off a lot of the telemetry. There's still a lot to do, after installation... Another piece of advice is to not use a CPU with a built-in spy processor, aka AI processor aka NPU. You don't want a "Copilot+ PC". With Intel CPU, this mean Raptor Lake or older.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-02 22:13 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <6958895c$1$23$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #704034 |
On 2026-01-02 21:49, chrisv wrote: > CrudeSausage wrote: > >> I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is >> tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the questions >> and allow you to have a local account. If you create an ISO using >> MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and just enables all >> of the tracking and cloud features. > > When installing Win11 Pro, it's not that bad. Making a local account > is no problem, and you can easily turn-off a lot of the telemetry. > There's still a lot to do, after installation... > > Another piece of advice is to not use a CPU with a built-in spy > processor, aka AI processor aka NPU. You don't want a "Copilot+ PC". > With Intel CPU, this mean Raptor Lake or older. I'll probably do a good chunk of research before buying my next computer, but I probably won't be going back to AMD at the very least. The fact that the fTPM stutering issue _still_ plagues AMD gaming machines to this day speaks volumes about their dedication to the customer. Of course, not using Windows removes the problem altogether, so I guess we'll see. Unless someone tells me with absolute certainty that System76's laptops are not reliable, I'll probably take that route. -- CrudeSausage John 14:6 Pop_OS!
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| From | vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 17:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <10jbj1a$1d4s4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #704039 |
At Fri, 2 Jan 2026 22:13:31 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2026-01-02 21:49, chrisv wrote: > > CrudeSausage wrote: > > > >> I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is > >> tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the > >> questions and allow you to have a local account. If you create an > >> ISO using MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and > >> just enables all of the tracking and cloud features. > > > > When installing Win11 Pro, it's not that bad. Making a local > > account is no problem, and you can easily turn-off a lot of the > > telemetry. There's still a lot to do, after installation... > > > > Another piece of advice is to not use a CPU with a built-in spy > > processor, aka AI processor aka NPU. You don't want a "Copilot+ > > PC". With Intel CPU, this mean Raptor Lake or older. > > I'll probably do a good chunk of research before buying my next > computer, but I probably won't be going back to AMD at the very > least. The fact that the fTPM stutering issue _still_ plagues AMD > gaming machines to this day speaks volumes about their dedication to > the customer. Of course, not using Windows removes the problem > altogether, so I guess we'll see. Unless someone tells me with > absolute certainty that System76's laptops are not reliable, I'll > probably take that route. Word to the wise: I haven't found their low-end laptops to be all that reliable, as they were rebranded Clevos. My laptop is an ASUS Tufbook. I needed something rugged for travel. -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G OS: Linux 6.18.3 D: Mint 22.2 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (580.105.08) "A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something."
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 14:14 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <69596a89$9$19$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #704081 |
On 2026-01-03 12:18, vallor wrote: > At Fri, 2 Jan 2026 22:13:31 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > >> On 2026-01-02 21:49, chrisv wrote: >>> CrudeSausage wrote: >>> >>>> I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is >>>> tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the >>>> questions and allow you to have a local account. If you create an >>>> ISO using MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and >>>> just enables all of the tracking and cloud features. >>> >>> When installing Win11 Pro, it's not that bad. Making a local >>> account is no problem, and you can easily turn-off a lot of the >>> telemetry. There's still a lot to do, after installation... >>> >>> Another piece of advice is to not use a CPU with a built-in spy >>> processor, aka AI processor aka NPU. You don't want a "Copilot+ >>> PC". With Intel CPU, this mean Raptor Lake or older. >> >> I'll probably do a good chunk of research before buying my next >> computer, but I probably won't be going back to AMD at the very >> least. The fact that the fTPM stutering issue _still_ plagues AMD >> gaming machines to this day speaks volumes about their dedication to >> the customer. Of course, not using Windows removes the problem >> altogether, so I guess we'll see. Unless someone tells me with >> absolute certainty that System76's laptops are not reliable, I'll >> probably take that route. > > Word to the wise: I haven't found their low-end laptops to be > all that reliable, as they were rebranded Clevos. > > My laptop is an ASUS Tufbook. I needed something rugged for > travel. I'll stick to ASUS then, but I'll be opting for the Intel processors going forward. Not only are the AMD ones apparently prohibited from using anything but the awful MediaTek chips for wifi, but Intel's processors don't suffer from the dreaded fTPM stuttering. However, I heard that the 13th generation of Intel processors crash unless underclocked, so I guess there just isn't anything good on the PC side anymore. -- CrudeSausage John 14:6 Pop_OS!
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| From | Tyrone <none@none.none> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 20:35 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <qQadnR4pY6oY4MT0nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #704091 |
On Jan 3, 2026 at 2:14:17 PM EST, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2026-01-03 12:18, vallor wrote: >> At Fri, 2 Jan 2026 22:13:31 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> >>> On 2026-01-02 21:49, chrisv wrote: >>>> CrudeSausage wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is >>>>> tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the >>>>> questions and allow you to have a local account. If you create an >>>>> ISO using MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and >>>>> just enables all of the tracking and cloud features. >>>> >>>> When installing Win11 Pro, it's not that bad. Making a local >>>> account is no problem, and you can easily turn-off a lot of the >>>> telemetry. There's still a lot to do, after installation... >>>> >>>> Another piece of advice is to not use a CPU with a built-in spy >>>> processor, aka AI processor aka NPU. You don't want a "Copilot+ >>>> PC". With Intel CPU, this mean Raptor Lake or older. >>> >>> I'll probably do a good chunk of research before buying my next >>> computer, but I probably won't be going back to AMD at the very >>> least. The fact that the fTPM stutering issue _still_ plagues AMD >>> gaming machines to this day speaks volumes about their dedication to >>> the customer. Of course, not using Windows removes the problem >>> altogether, so I guess we'll see. Unless someone tells me with >>> absolute certainty that System76's laptops are not reliable, I'll >>> probably take that route. >> >> Word to the wise: I haven't found their low-end laptops to be >> all that reliable, as they were rebranded Clevos. >> >> My laptop is an ASUS Tufbook. I needed something rugged for >> travel. > > I'll stick to ASUS then, but I'll be opting for the Intel processors > going forward. Not only are the AMD ones apparently prohibited from > using anything but the awful MediaTek chips for wifi, but Intel's > processors don't suffer from the dreaded fTPM stuttering. However, I > heard that the 13th generation of Intel processors crash unless > underclocked, so I guess there just isn't anything good on the PC side > anymore. Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 16:26 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <69598972$0$25$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #704099 |
On 2026-01-03 15:35, Tyrone wrote: > On Jan 3, 2026 at 2:14:17 PM EST, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > >> On 2026-01-03 12:18, vallor wrote: >>> At Fri, 2 Jan 2026 22:13:31 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2026-01-02 21:49, chrisv wrote: >>>>> CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've said it here before: the only way installing Windows 11 is >>>>>> tolerable is if you use Rufus to modify the ISO to skip the >>>>>> questions and allow you to have a local account. If you create an >>>>>> ISO using MediaCreationTool, the installer has no pity on you and >>>>>> just enables all of the tracking and cloud features. >>>>> >>>>> When installing Win11 Pro, it's not that bad. Making a local >>>>> account is no problem, and you can easily turn-off a lot of the >>>>> telemetry. There's still a lot to do, after installation... >>>>> >>>>> Another piece of advice is to not use a CPU with a built-in spy >>>>> processor, aka AI processor aka NPU. You don't want a "Copilot+ >>>>> PC". With Intel CPU, this mean Raptor Lake or older. >>>> >>>> I'll probably do a good chunk of research before buying my next >>>> computer, but I probably won't be going back to AMD at the very >>>> least. The fact that the fTPM stutering issue _still_ plagues AMD >>>> gaming machines to this day speaks volumes about their dedication to >>>> the customer. Of course, not using Windows removes the problem >>>> altogether, so I guess we'll see. Unless someone tells me with >>>> absolute certainty that System76's laptops are not reliable, I'll >>>> probably take that route. >>> >>> Word to the wise: I haven't found their low-end laptops to be >>> all that reliable, as they were rebranded Clevos. >>> >>> My laptop is an ASUS Tufbook. I needed something rugged for >>> travel. >> >> I'll stick to ASUS then, but I'll be opting for the Intel processors >> going forward. Not only are the AMD ones apparently prohibited from >> using anything but the awful MediaTek chips for wifi, but Intel's >> processors don't suffer from the dreaded fTPM stuttering. However, I >> heard that the 13th generation of Intel processors crash unless >> underclocked, so I guess there just isn't anything good on the PC side >> anymore. > > Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. We're not yet seeing the benefits on the PC side, but once Linux fully supports them (I'm not sure if they do yet), it will definitely be the architecture to go for. Absolutely no one wants to get no more than six hours of battery life from their laptop anymore. -- CrudeSausage John 14:6 Pop_OS!
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-04 05:50 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <mrudddFm7clU7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #704106 |
On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 16:26:09 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote: > We're not yet seeing the benefits on the PC side, but once Linux fully > supports them (I'm not sure if they do yet), it will definitely be the > architecture to go for. Absolutely no one wants to get no more than six > hours of battery life from their laptop anymore. The Raspberry Pi OS is derived from Debian. Considering the limitations of the Pi 5 it usable. Other distros can run on the Pi too but I took the easy way out. The Raspberry Pi Imager has been expanded to include Ubunto, Alpine, and the Fedora based Ultramarine.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-04 07:47 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <695a6158$4$21961$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #704150 |
On 2026-01-04 00:50, rbowman wrote: > On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 16:26:09 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote: > >> We're not yet seeing the benefits on the PC side, but once Linux fully >> supports them (I'm not sure if they do yet), it will definitely be the >> architecture to go for. Absolutely no one wants to get no more than six >> hours of battery life from their laptop anymore. > > The Raspberry Pi OS is derived from Debian. Considering the limitations of > the Pi 5 it usable. Other distros can run on the Pi too but I took the > easy way out. The Raspberry Pi Imager has been expanded to include Ubunto, > Alpine, and the Fedora based Ultramarine. I'm not too familiar with the Raspberry Pi devices but I imagine that they use an ARM processor. Is that correct? -- CrudeSausage John 14:6 Pop_OS!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-05 01:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Remember when setting up a Windows PC didnt feel |
| Message-ID | <ms0j3pF2l85U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #704161 |
On Sun, 4 Jan 2026 07:47:20 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote: > On 2026-01-04 00:50, rbowman wrote: >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 16:26:09 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote: >> >>> We're not yet seeing the benefits on the PC side, but once Linux fully >>> supports them (I'm not sure if they do yet), it will definitely be the >>> architecture to go for. Absolutely no one wants to get no more than >>> six hours of battery life from their laptop anymore. >> >> The Raspberry Pi OS is derived from Debian. Considering the limitations >> of the Pi 5 it usable. Other distros can run on the Pi too but I took >> the easy way out. The Raspberry Pi Imager has been expanded to include >> Ubunto, >> Alpine, and the Fedora based Ultramarine. > > I'm not too familiar with the Raspberry Pi devices but I imagine that > they use an ARM processor. Is that correct? Yes. The RPi 5 uses the Broadcom BCM2712 quad-core Arm Cortex A76 processor at 2.4 GHz. The previous RPi 4 used a Broadcom Cortex A72 at 1.8 GHz. Same form factor but the 5 needs a heftier power supply and a cooler if you expert to drive it hard without throttling. https://raspberrytips.com/raspberry-pi-5-review/ It's a fair review from a Windows-centric user. Right noe the CanaKit I have is $170 on Amazon. That includes the Pi, a case, heatsink/fan, power supply, and cables. For $150 you can get a low end AWOW mini PC with a N150 processor, a PCIe SSD. I'm not familiar with the brand but there are a lot of entries in the mini field. If you want a small, cheap computer, don't care about ARM, and don't even know what GPIO means, there is no competition at all. The Pi does answer the question of Linux running on ARM. Something like the HP EliteBook G1q would be a much better test but I don't need another laptop, let alone a $1000 one.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 21:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10jc2vn$1i4ia$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #704099 |
On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: > Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. And as usual, Linux is leading the way.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 13:57 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <10jc3c8$1ijsg$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #704107 |
On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: > >> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. > > Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". > > And as usual, Linux is leading the way. LOL!
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| From | "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 17:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <gqg6R.1593823$Bg93.803763@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #704110 |
On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: > On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >> >>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >> >> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. > > Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". > >> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. > > LOL! Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords aren't so special and genius in adopting it, though it has in many ways improved their own business, but to imagine that macOS's transition makes it unique here is typical Alan masturbatory logic and probable financial support by Apple in secret, because they need a Usenet shill they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate their better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac isn't overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its competition, a proposition easily refuted by actually using the three platforms enough to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really is. -- Joel W. Crump
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 14:33 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <10jc5gi$1j23d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #704111 |
On 2026-01-03 14:07, Joel W. Crump wrote: > On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: >> On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >>> >>>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >>> >>> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. >> >> Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". >> >>> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. >> >> LOL! > > > Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords aren't So? How does that show Linux "leading the way"? There's more to leading the way that simply being able to run an OS. People don't use the OS: they use applications that can run on that OS. And Apple has lead the way in making it possible to run a program written for a different architecture on new one. Motorola to PowerPC PowerPC to Intel And now, Intel to Apple Silicon. > so special and genius in adopting it, though it has in many ways > improved their own business, but to imagine that macOS's transition > makes it unique here is typical Alan masturbatory logic and probable > financial support by Apple in secret, because they need a Usenet shill Oh, this your new bullshit, is it? > they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate their > better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac isn't > overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its competition, a > proposition easily refuted by actually using the three platforms enough > to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really is. And yet you can never actually articulate something that either Linux or Windows does better.
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| From | "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 17:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <X6h6R.1137372$79B9.48670@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #704114 |
On 1/3/26 5:33 PM, Alan wrote: > On 2026-01-03 14:07, Joel W. Crump wrote: >> On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: >>> On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >>>> >>>>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >>>> >>>> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. >>> >>> Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". >>> >>>> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. >>> >>> LOL! >> >> Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords aren't > > So? How does that show Linux "leading the way"? > > There's more to leading the way that simply being able to run an OS. > > People don't use the OS: they use applications that can run on that OS. > > And Apple has lead the way in making it possible to run a program > written for a different architecture on new one. > > Motorola to PowerPC > > PowerPC to Intel > > And now, Intel to Apple Silicon. As if that isn't par for the course? It's certainly not unique to Apple's platform, though they have done a good job in that aspect admittedly. >> so special and genius in adopting it, though it has in many ways >> improved their own business, but to imagine that macOS's transition >> makes it unique here is typical Alan masturbatory logic and probable >> financial support by Apple in secret, because they need a Usenet shill > > Oh, this your new bullshit, is it? I don't really believe it, if that's the question, but to the casual observer it wouldn't be that hard to imagine, your debate tactics indicate a devotion to Apple that is so extreme that you have to avoid acknowledging other platforms' strong points *and* avoid addressing points about it by other posters, even accusing them of making things up and demanding unwarranted evidence. >> they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate their >> better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac isn't >> overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its competition, a >> proposition easily refuted by actually using the three platforms >> enough to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really is. > And yet you can never actually articulate something that either Linux or > Windows does better. That's not really the issue, though, all three platforms do the same things from some perspective, my concern with macOS is that it's supposed to really stand out and yet that seems more true on having higher prices than actual use advantages. -- Joel W. Crump
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 15:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <10jc74m$1ipf7$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #704117 |
On 2026-01-03 14:54, Joel W. Crump wrote: > On 1/3/26 5:33 PM, Alan wrote: >> On 2026-01-03 14:07, Joel W. Crump wrote: >>> On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: >>>> On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >>>>> >>>>> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. >>>> >>>> Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". >>>> >>>>> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. >>>> >>>> LOL! >>> >>> Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords aren't >> >> So? How does that show Linux "leading the way"? >> >> There's more to leading the way that simply being able to run an OS. >> >> People don't use the OS: they use applications that can run on that OS. >> >> And Apple has lead the way in making it possible to run a program >> written for a different architecture on new one. >> >> Motorola to PowerPC >> >> PowerPC to Intel >> >> And now, Intel to Apple Silicon. > > > As if that isn't par for the course? It's certainly not unique to > Apple's platform, though they have done a good job in that aspect > admittedly. Is it... ..."par for the course"? Show some other similar transitions. > > >>> so special and genius in adopting it, though it has in many ways >>> improved their own business, but to imagine that macOS's transition >>> makes it unique here is typical Alan masturbatory logic and probable >>> financial support by Apple in secret, because they need a Usenet shill >> >> Oh, this your new bullshit, is it? > > > I don't really believe it, if that's the question, but to the casual > observer it wouldn't be that hard to imagine, your debate tactics > indicate a devotion to Apple that is so extreme that you have to avoid > acknowledging other platforms' strong points *and* avoid addressing > points about it by other posters, even accusing them of making things up > and demanding unwarranted evidence. LOL! > > >>> they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate their >>> better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac isn't >>> overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its competition, a >>> proposition easily refuted by actually using the three platforms >>> enough to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really is. > >> And yet you can never actually articulate something that either Linux >> or Windows does better. > > > That's not really the issue, though, all three platforms do the same > things from some perspective, my concern with macOS is that it's > supposed to really stand out and yet that seems more true on having > higher prices than actual use advantages. So having declared it "crapware", you immediately admit you were speaking bullshit. That's par for your course.
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| From | "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 18:40 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <TNh6R.433484$3Sk8.313010@fx46.iad> |
| In reply to | #704119 |
On 1/3/26 6:01 PM, Alan wrote: > On 2026-01-03 14:54, Joel W. Crump wrote: >> On 1/3/26 5:33 PM, Alan wrote: >>> On 2026-01-03 14:07, Joel W. Crump wrote: >>>> On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: >>>>> On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >>>>>> >>>>>> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. >>>>> >>>>> Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". >>>>> >>>>>> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. >>>>> >>>>> LOL! >>>> >>>> Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords >>>> aren't >>> >>> So? How does that show Linux "leading the way"? >>> >>> There's more to leading the way that simply being able to run an OS. >>> >>> People don't use the OS: they use applications that can run on that OS. >>> >>> And Apple has lead the way in making it possible to run a program >>> written for a different architecture on new one. >>> >>> Motorola to PowerPC >>> >>> PowerPC to Intel >>> >>> And now, Intel to Apple Silicon. >> >> As if that isn't par for the course? It's certainly not unique to >> Apple's platform, though they have done a good job in that aspect >> admittedly. > > Is it... ..."par for the course"? > > Show some other similar transitions. Does WinARM not run x86 software? >>>> so special and genius in adopting it, though it has in many ways >>>> improved their own business, but to imagine that macOS's transition >>>> makes it unique here is typical Alan masturbatory logic and probable >>>> financial support by Apple in secret, because they need a Usenet shill >>> >>> Oh, this your new bullshit, is it? >> >> I don't really believe it, if that's the question, but to the casual >> observer it wouldn't be that hard to imagine, your debate tactics >> indicate a devotion to Apple that is so extreme that you have to avoid >> acknowledging other platforms' strong points *and* avoid addressing >> points about it by other posters, even accusing them of making things >> up and demanding unwarranted evidence. > > LOL! Laugh if you must but it's right there for anyone who's been reading this shit to see. >>>> they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate their >>>> better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac isn't >>>> overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its competition, a >>>> proposition easily refuted by actually using the three platforms >>>> enough to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really is. >> >>> And yet you can never actually articulate something that either Linux >>> or Windows does better. >> >> That's not really the issue, though, all three platforms do the same >> things from some perspective, my concern with macOS is that it's >> supposed to really stand out and yet that seems more true on having >> higher prices than actual use advantages. > So having declared it "crapware", you immediately admit you were > speaking bullshit. > > That's par for your course. It's not in every way crapware. But relative to the choices we have, it qualifies as such. -- Joel W. Crump
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 15:48 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <10jc9st$1kjhn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #704123 |
On 2026-01-03 15:40, Joel W. Crump wrote: > On 1/3/26 6:01 PM, Alan wrote: >> On 2026-01-03 14:54, Joel W. Crump wrote: >>> On 1/3/26 5:33 PM, Alan wrote: >>>> On 2026-01-03 14:07, Joel W. Crump wrote: >>>>> On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: >>>>>> On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". >>>>>> >>>>>>> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> LOL! >>>>> >>>>> Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords >>>>> aren't >>>> >>>> So? How does that show Linux "leading the way"? >>>> >>>> There's more to leading the way that simply being able to run an OS. >>>> >>>> People don't use the OS: they use applications that can run on that OS. >>>> >>>> And Apple has lead the way in making it possible to run a program >>>> written for a different architecture on new one. >>>> >>>> Motorola to PowerPC >>>> >>>> PowerPC to Intel >>>> >>>> And now, Intel to Apple Silicon. >>> >>> As if that isn't par for the course? It's certainly not unique to >>> Apple's platform, though they have done a good job in that aspect >>> admittedly. >> >> Is it... ..."par for the course"? >> >> Show some other similar transitions. > > > Does WinARM not run x86 software? Did that happen before or AFTER Apple had worked out how to do it... ...twice before? > > >>>>> so special and genius in adopting it, though it has in many ways >>>>> improved their own business, but to imagine that macOS's transition >>>>> makes it unique here is typical Alan masturbatory logic and >>>>> probable financial support by Apple in secret, because they need a >>>>> Usenet shill >>>> >>>> Oh, this your new bullshit, is it? >>> >>> I don't really believe it, if that's the question, but to the casual >>> observer it wouldn't be that hard to imagine, your debate tactics >>> indicate a devotion to Apple that is so extreme that you have to >>> avoid acknowledging other platforms' strong points *and* avoid >>> addressing points about it by other posters, even accusing them of >>> making things up and demanding unwarranted evidence. >> >> LOL! > > > Laugh if you must but it's right there for anyone who's been reading > this shit to see. > > >>>>> they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate >>>>> their better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac >>>>> isn't overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its competition, >>>>> a proposition easily refuted by actually using the three platforms >>>>> enough to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really is. >>> >>>> And yet you can never actually articulate something that either >>>> Linux or Windows does better. >>> >>> That's not really the issue, though, all three platforms do the same >>> things from some perspective, my concern with macOS is that it's >>> supposed to really stand out and yet that seems more true on having >>> higher prices than actual use advantages. > >> So having declared it "crapware", you immediately admit you were >> speaking bullshit. >> >> That's par for your course. > > > It's not in every way crapware. But relative to the choices we have, it > qualifies as such. In ways you will never actually articulate. We know.
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| From | "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-01-03 19:06 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <jai6R.78104$kpS9.34646@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #704124 |
On 1/3/26 6:48 PM, Alan wrote: > On 2026-01-03 15:40, Joel W. Crump wrote: >> On 1/3/26 6:01 PM, Alan wrote: >>> On 2026-01-03 14:54, Joel W. Crump wrote: >>>> On 1/3/26 5:33 PM, Alan wrote: >>>>> On 2026-01-03 14:07, Joel W. Crump wrote: >>>>>> On 1/3/26 4:57 PM, Alan wrote: >>>>>>> On 2026-01-03 13:50, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 20:35:17 +0000, Tyrone wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arm CPUs are the best thing to happen to PCs since the SSD. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Second-best. RISC-V may yet surpass them. Maybe even LoongArch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ummmm... "may yet surpass" literally means "aren't YET as good". >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And as usual, Linux is leading the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LOL! >>>>>> >>>>>> Linux and Windows both support ARM, your precious Apple overlords >>>>>> aren't >>>>> >>>>> So? How does that show Linux "leading the way"? >>>>> >>>>> There's more to leading the way that simply being able to run an OS. >>>>> >>>>> People don't use the OS: they use applications that can run on that >>>>> OS. >>>>> >>>>> And Apple has lead the way in making it possible to run a program >>>>> written for a different architecture on new one. >>>>> >>>>> Motorola to PowerPC >>>>> >>>>> PowerPC to Intel >>>>> >>>>> And now, Intel to Apple Silicon. >>>> >>>> As if that isn't par for the course? It's certainly not unique to >>>> Apple's platform, though they have done a good job in that aspect >>>> admittedly. >>> >>> Is it... ..."par for the course"? >>> >>> Show some other similar transitions. >> >> Does WinARM not run x86 software? > > Did that happen before or AFTER Apple had worked out how to do it... > > ...twice before? You say that like it makes a difference, Apple adopted ARM and has done well in supporting that, I acknowledge that, but to think developing machine language emulation is so original and special is laughable. >>>>>> they can depend on to obfuscate their drawbacks and exaggerate >>>>>> their better features, making it seem like the investment in a Mac >>>>>> isn't overpaying Apple but in fact an upgrade over its >>>>>> competition, a proposition easily refuted by actually using the >>>>>> three platforms enough to see how mediocre Apple's crapware really >>>>>> is. >>>> >>>>> And yet you can never actually articulate something that either >>>>> Linux or Windows does better. >>>> >>>> That's not really the issue, though, all three platforms do the same >>>> things from some perspective, my concern with macOS is that it's >>>> supposed to really stand out and yet that seems more true on having >>>> higher prices than actual use advantages. >> >>> So having declared it "crapware", you immediately admit you were >>> speaking bullshit. >>> >>> That's par for your course. >> >> It's not in every way crapware. But relative to the choices we have, >> it qualifies as such. > > In ways you will never actually articulate. > > We know. Why is that needed? You either have the experience that supports my view or you don't. I guess you personally don't, and I can deal with that, I wouldn't wish to tell you that your enjoyment of your Mac device is somehow wrong, but this is a public forum and we're bound to see things differently, I don't claim to have vast knowledge of macOS but I've used it enough to know how Apple operates, and objectively it's less accepted by the market than Windows and then Linux supersedes all other platforms when it comes to bringing real freedom to computing. Then again, there are some trends in Apple's favor, relatively new for the most part but that could grow their footprint in the market in a big way, sooner than people might think. The question would be whether they respond by being more competitive, or kid themselves that their business model is working on this scale already. -- Joel W. Crump
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