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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #689406 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 258 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 09:11 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 12:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-25 05:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-25 19:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-25 15:38 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 00:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-24 13:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 09:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-25 12:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-25 23:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 00:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 01:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-26 07:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 03:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 10:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-26 05:53 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:00 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:18 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:45 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:05 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:11 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:08 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 09:13 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 20:16 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-05-02 20:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 09:31 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 09:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 18:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-05 11:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:40 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-04 14:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-04 11:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-05 18:50 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 14:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 20:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 22:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-03 08:29 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 10:39 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-04 10:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 20:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 08:36 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 14:04 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-05 15:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:00 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 19:43 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 00:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 03:28 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-08 10:02 -0400
Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-07 04:18 +0000
Re: Linux again (was: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 00:56 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 07:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 08:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 20:43 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-05-07 17:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-05-08 07:06 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 06:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-06 11:02 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:16 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:23 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 02:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 07:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:17 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 22:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:47 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-04-27 09:12 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-28 08:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:49 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 07:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-27 08:51 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-28 17:42 -0500
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 18:51 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:26 +0000
Re: Evolution (was Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:33 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:59 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 01:05 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-26 08:15 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-26 23:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:46 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 07:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:30 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 06:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-27 14:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 07:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-28 11:40 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 12:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:49 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 18:03 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 20:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 09:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 14:21 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 11:24 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 21:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 17:33 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 22:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 19:37 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 00:25 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 00:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 18:22 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-30 01:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 08:53 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 13:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 13:28 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 21:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 15:31 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 11:41 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:07 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-29 21:03 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:51 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 22:49 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:45 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 06:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-04 08:14 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:41 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 15:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 08:56 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 16:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 09:48 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-30 10:10 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-30 09:05 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 17:04 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 11:01 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 19:18 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 23:30 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-02 16:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-01 18:47 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:09 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 03:56 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:42 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 10:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 07:02 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 08:39 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 04:44 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:24 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:20 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:01 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 23:15 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-02 19:55 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:32 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-05-03 08:23 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-03 01:06 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-05-03 05:36 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:14 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:26 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 08:48 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 19:58 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-28 16:46 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 06:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:38 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 00:11 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 17:20 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-29 01:27 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 02:52 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-27 08:13 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-26 02:57 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-24 18:54 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 20:35 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:04 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-24 17:26 -0400
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:45 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-24 21:48 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:57 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-24 21:53 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 14:58 -0700
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:29 +0000
Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-25 01:27 +0000
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-30 09:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <hmpQP.125857$0qs5.26756@fx07.iad> |
| In reply to | #689739 |
On 2025-04-30 06:24, Borax Man wrote: < snipped for brevity > >> As long as manufacturers don't give people the option to buy their >> hardware without Windows bundled on, it will retain much of its >> dominance. If ever manufacturers are being treated poorly by Microsoft, >> it might be beneficial for them to offer a choice upon initial bootup >> the way the Endeavour OS installer does. Before you go through with >> installation, it gives you a list of desktop environments you can use as >> screenshots of how they look. This would work, but I believe Microsoft >> makes it impossible for manufacturers to offer that kind of choice. If >> I'm not mistaken, they tell manufacturers that if they want to carry >> Windows, they cannot offer anything else. This applies for the hardware >> found in stores, at the very least. >> > > To be honest, it was many years of using a PC before I too understood > that there could be a viable alternative on the PC, and I was more "tech > literate" than average. This was in the 90s. I knew of OS2 and some > toy OS's. I started to get annoyed with Windows, and desire features > and abilities that it was lacking. When I found that Linux was a thing, > it kind of mostly met what I was looking for (more power!). I was always curious, so it didn't take long for me to learn that there were things other than DOS back in the day. I got acquainted with Windows 3.0 fairly quickly, learned abut MacOS quickly thereafter and soon developed an interest in OS/2 since my nerdy cousin assured me that it was better than everything under the sun. Admittedly, I remained in the Windows camp during that time but kept trying Linux out from about 1994 or 1995 on. I recall installing Slackware on my PC through floppies, but I had no idea how to get much done. I tried again in 1998, but I couldn't get sound to work and the resolution couldn't get past 800x600 (I had no idea what I was doing). By 1999, I was ready to move but Linux itself wasn't entirely ready for what I wanted to do. I only really started using it as the main OS on my Dell laptop around 2008 (it worked great on that), but even then I kept Windows as my overall main operating system. Once the PRISM revelations emerged, my interest in Linux grew and I kept trying to make it my default operating system with various degrees of success. Now, I can confidently say that there are way more benefits than there are drawbacks, no matter what hardware I run it on. >>> I moved away decades ago. I've gotten others to move away, but the >>> numbers dont lie. Most people just take the pain and live with Windows. >> >> Windows does offer a good operating system, but the pain becomes worse >> when you are aware that you can avoid a good chunk of it. If you are >> like my students and don't even know what your operating system is, >> you're likely to just put up with it. If you grew up with technology and >> saw it progress, you're likely to be knowledgeable and aware that Linux >> offers some respite. I'm an example of that. I can tolerate all sorts of >> bullshit but even I have my breaking point. >> > > One of the barriers, is people cannot really imagine anything better. > People just accepted in the 90s that computers were unstable and > crashed. It was just a given, but when my friends asked me about Linux, > and I showed that I could burn a CD, listen to music and download a file > and browse *at the same time*, they were impressed. Computers didn't > need to crash. You can do reptetive tasks far, far more efficiently > than clicking through a series of GUI elements 24 times over. These are > moments where people can realise they can do things, things they didn't > think they could do. Emacs was an experience like that too. For year > just using basic editing, then finding you can select words, sentences, > transpose, etc. I use emacs at work, (mostly for org mode) and people > think I'm using DOS, but when they see how I manage my todo lists, it > seems like magic. I found Linux to be just as crashy as Windows in the late 90s. I had hope that BeOS might penetrate the market since it was a lot more robust than the two, but it went nowhere. I would say that Linux's core was always quite stable but everything atop it not so much. In my opinion, it only became rock solid in the last decade or so. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 14:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn10170g7.2qk.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689747 |
On 2025-04-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-04-30 06:24, Borax Man wrote: > >< snipped for brevity > > >> >> To be honest, it was many years of using a PC before I too understood >> that there could be a viable alternative on the PC, and I was more "tech >> literate" than average. This was in the 90s. I knew of OS2 and some >> toy OS's. I started to get annoyed with Windows, and desire features >> and abilities that it was lacking. When I found that Linux was a thing, >> it kind of mostly met what I was looking for (more power!). > > I was always curious, so it didn't take long for me to learn that there > were things other than DOS back in the day. I got acquainted with > Windows 3.0 fairly quickly, learned abut MacOS quickly thereafter and > soon developed an interest in OS/2 since my nerdy cousin assured me that > it was better than everything under the sun. Admittedly, I remained in > the Windows camp during that time but kept trying Linux out from about > 1994 or 1995 on. I recall installing Slackware on my PC through > floppies, but I had no idea how to get much done. I tried again in 1998, > but I couldn't get sound to work and the resolution couldn't get past > 800x600 (I had no idea what I was doing). By 1999, I was ready to move > but Linux itself wasn't entirely ready for what I wanted to do. I only > really started using it as the main OS on my Dell laptop around 2008 (it > worked great on that), but even then I kept Windows as my overall main > operating system. Once the PRISM revelations emerged, my interest in > Linux grew and I kept trying to make it my default operating system with > various degrees of success. Now, I can confidently say that there are > way more benefits than there are drawbacks, no matter what hardware I > run it on. > I had seen references to Linux here and there on the Internet in the late 90s, but I just supposed that as a system I would not either be able to run it, or make good use of it. I was invested in DOS, DOS games and programs, programming in DOS so while I didn't like Windows much, I wasn't that interested in leaving the ecosystem I did understand. However by 1999-2000, after having to reinstall windows again and again, and knowing that staying in the past wasn't the way forward, thats when I took Linux seriously, after hearing a bit more about it. I still knew very little, except it was good for the Internet and that it might be good for "power users". I was browsing a newsagency late 2000, saw a copy of Linux Format with a Definite Linux 7.0 cover disk and decided to give it a try. Then I learned about it being a Unix close, about the Free Software movement, and saw a bit more of a world of computing, with a long history that I had seen references to, but was now a part of. >>> >>> Windows does offer a good operating system, but the pain becomes worse >>> when you are aware that you can avoid a good chunk of it. If you are >>> like my students and don't even know what your operating system is, >>> you're likely to just put up with it. If you grew up with technology and >>> saw it progress, you're likely to be knowledgeable and aware that Linux >>> offers some respite. I'm an example of that. I can tolerate all sorts of >>> bullshit but even I have my breaking point. >>> >> >> One of the barriers, is people cannot really imagine anything better. >> People just accepted in the 90s that computers were unstable and >> crashed. It was just a given, but when my friends asked me about Linux, >> and I showed that I could burn a CD, listen to music and download a file >> and browse *at the same time*, they were impressed. Computers didn't >> need to crash. You can do reptetive tasks far, far more efficiently >> than clicking through a series of GUI elements 24 times over. These are >> moments where people can realise they can do things, things they didn't >> think they could do. Emacs was an experience like that too. For year >> just using basic editing, then finding you can select words, sentences, >> transpose, etc. I use emacs at work, (mostly for org mode) and people >> think I'm using DOS, but when they see how I manage my todo lists, it >> seems like magic. > > I found Linux to be just as crashy as Windows in the late 90s. I had > hope that BeOS might penetrate the market since it was a lot more robust > than the two, but it went nowhere. I would say that Linux's core was > always quite stable but everything atop it not so much. In my opinion, > it only became rock solid in the last decade or so. > That was my experience too. When I first used it, programs would just dissapear, and leave a "core" file. Individual programs DID crash more than in Windows, but they rarely took the system down with it. There were fewer crashes on Windows, but they were often more catastrophic, taking everything down with it. A Linux program crash, well, it just vanished. At least everything else was usually untouchged. When I found I could telnet into the system, on the occasions the screen did freeze, I could either kill the process, kill X, or shut the system down, at least avoiding an unclean unmount. But I would say by Red Hat 7.3 (the 2003 one), it was much better, and improved since then. As has, admittedly, Windows, though it has other janky behaviour.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 14:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7hfhuF8mvgU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689798 |
On Thu, 1 May 2025 14:15:35 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > That was my experience too. When I first used it, programs would just > dissapear, and leave a "core" file. Individual programs DID crash more > than in Windows, but they rarely took the system down with it. There > were fewer crashes on Windows, but they were often more catastrophic, > taking everything down with it. A Linux program crash, well, it just > vanished. At least everything else was usually untouchged. When I > found I could telnet into the system, on the occasions the screen did > freeze, I could either kill the process, kill X, or shut the system > down, at least avoiding an unclean unmount. Depending on how the program was built you could load the core into gdb and get useful information on why it crashed. windbg sometimes worked but more often was a disappointment. For a developer tools on Linux like valgrind or ElectricFence were superior to anything on Windows like Purify or BoundsChecker. The Windows tools not only were inferior but were expensive.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 15:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn1019nl5.2rt.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689802 |
On 2025-05-01, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Thu, 1 May 2025 14:15:35 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > >> That was my experience too. When I first used it, programs would just >> dissapear, and leave a "core" file. Individual programs DID crash more >> than in Windows, but they rarely took the system down with it. There >> were fewer crashes on Windows, but they were often more catastrophic, >> taking everything down with it. A Linux program crash, well, it just >> vanished. At least everything else was usually untouchged. When I >> found I could telnet into the system, on the occasions the screen did >> freeze, I could either kill the process, kill X, or shut the system >> down, at least avoiding an unclean unmount. > > Depending on how the program was built you could load the core into gdb > and get useful information on why it crashed. windbg sometimes worked but > more often was a disappointment. > > For a developer tools on Linux like valgrind or ElectricFence were > superior to anything on Windows like Purify or BoundsChecker. The Windows > tools not only were inferior but were expensive. For someone who was new, I didn't even know what these mysterious files were! They just were yellow circles with faces, like a emojie with croses for eyes and I think a tongue hanging out, as if dead. Or a bomb. They just appeared on the filesystem and could be large. I just deleted them.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 20:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7koh8FouscU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689860 |
On Fri, 2 May 2025 15:03:01 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote: > For someone who was new, I didn't even know what these mysterious files > were! They just were yellow circles with faces, like a emojie with > croses for eyes and I think a tongue hanging out, as if dead. Or a > bomb. They just appeared on the filesystem and could be large. I think it might have been SUSE but if you ran as root the background changed to a red field with big black smoking bombs like the ones seen in cartoons. I think Ubuntu was the first distro I ran into where root sort of disappeared.
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 08:18 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vv51iq$3g7ee$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #689872 |
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> On Fri, 2 May 2025 15:03:01 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>
>> For someone who was new, I didn't even know what these mysterious files
>> were! They just were yellow circles with faces, like a emojie with
>> croses for eyes and I think a tongue hanging out, as if dead. Or a
>> bomb. They just appeared on the filesystem and could be large.
>
> I think it might have been SUSE but if you ran as root the background
> changed to a red field with big black smoking bombs like the ones seen in
> cartoons.
Reminds me of the "cherry bomb" exceptions on the Atari ST.
> I think Ubuntu was the first distro I ran into where root sort of
> disappeared.
$ sudo su
:-)
--
If there was any justice in the world, "trust" would be a four-letter word.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 21:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7ngesF7t21U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689921 |
On Sat, 3 May 2025 08:18:34 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >> I think Ubuntu was the first distro I ran into where root sort of >> disappeared. > > $ sudo su Yeah, but sudo asks for your credentials and you have to be in the sudoers list. Back around 2000 we were very security conscious. All the AIX and Linux boxes all had the same password for root. It was handy. I don't know if AIX had sudo but we had a app called gosu which everybody compiled, set to 4755, and chown'd to root while logged in as root.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 18:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <0OSQP.28898$AoB5.17918@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #689798 |
On 2025-05-01 10:15, Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-04-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 2025-04-30 06:24, Borax Man wrote: >> >> < snipped for brevity > >> >>> >>> To be honest, it was many years of using a PC before I too understood >>> that there could be a viable alternative on the PC, and I was more "tech >>> literate" than average. This was in the 90s. I knew of OS2 and some >>> toy OS's. I started to get annoyed with Windows, and desire features >>> and abilities that it was lacking. When I found that Linux was a thing, >>> it kind of mostly met what I was looking for (more power!). >> >> I was always curious, so it didn't take long for me to learn that there >> were things other than DOS back in the day. I got acquainted with >> Windows 3.0 fairly quickly, learned abut MacOS quickly thereafter and >> soon developed an interest in OS/2 since my nerdy cousin assured me that >> it was better than everything under the sun. Admittedly, I remained in >> the Windows camp during that time but kept trying Linux out from about >> 1994 or 1995 on. I recall installing Slackware on my PC through >> floppies, but I had no idea how to get much done. I tried again in 1998, >> but I couldn't get sound to work and the resolution couldn't get past >> 800x600 (I had no idea what I was doing). By 1999, I was ready to move >> but Linux itself wasn't entirely ready for what I wanted to do. I only >> really started using it as the main OS on my Dell laptop around 2008 (it >> worked great on that), but even then I kept Windows as my overall main >> operating system. Once the PRISM revelations emerged, my interest in >> Linux grew and I kept trying to make it my default operating system with >> various degrees of success. Now, I can confidently say that there are >> way more benefits than there are drawbacks, no matter what hardware I >> run it on. >> > > I had seen references to Linux here and there on the Internet in the > late 90s, but I just supposed that as a system I would not either be > able to run it, or make good use of it. I was invested in DOS, DOS > games and programs, programming in DOS so while I didn't like Windows > much, I wasn't that interested in leaving the ecosystem I did > understand. > > However by 1999-2000, after having to reinstall windows again and again, > and knowing that staying in the past wasn't the way forward, thats when > I took Linux seriously, after hearing a bit more about it. I still knew > very little, except it was good for the Internet and that it might be > good for "power users". > > I was browsing a newsagency late 2000, saw a copy of Linux Format with a > Definite Linux 7.0 cover disk and decided to give it a try. Then I > learned about it being a Unix close, about the Free Software movement, > and saw a bit more of a world of computing, with a long history that I > had seen references to, but was now a part of. I think that Linux would have been adopted faster in the late 90s has the Linux zealots at the time not been lying through their teeth and claiming that Linux was stable and worked perfectly across the board. Most people didn't know a thing about repositories and installing software through, didn't understand what open-source was and what its benefits could be and definitely weren't open to persevering with the operating system when their hardware didn't work the way that it should. >> I found Linux to be just as crashy as Windows in the late 90s. I had >> hope that BeOS might penetrate the market since it was a lot more robust >> than the two, but it went nowhere. I would say that Linux's core was >> always quite stable but everything atop it not so much. In my opinion, >> it only became rock solid in the last decade or so. >> > > That was my experience too. When I first used it, programs would just > dissapear, and leave a "core" file. Individual programs DID crash more > than in Windows, but they rarely took the system down with it. There > were fewer crashes on Windows, but they were often more catastrophic, > taking everything down with it. A Linux program crash, well, it just > vanished. At least everything else was usually untouchged. When I > found I could telnet into the system, on the occasions the screen did > freeze, I could either kill the process, kill X, or shut the system > down, at least avoiding an unclean unmount. > > But I would say by Red Hat 7.3 (the 2003 one), it was much better, and > improved since then. As has, admittedly, Windows, though it has other > janky behaviour. I had a lot of luck with the SUSE Linux versions back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Tumbleweed was also the first Linux to work perfectly on my old MSI for suspend (admittedly, Linux worked perfectly on my old AMD-centric Dell laptop in the late 2000s). Windows has always been fine for me, but I would also reinstall that thing once every three months or so. Even in that short time though, it managed to screw up from an update or corrupted system files. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 00:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7ih82Fdhc7U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689820 |
On Thu, 1 May 2025 18:43:07 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > I had a lot of luck with the SUSE Linux versions back in the late 90s > and early 2000s. I liked SUSE and still have a version where it came in a shrink wrapped box with hardcopy documentation and the whole enchilada on CDs. (DVDs?) I initially had problems with 13.2. By default it formatted the boot partition with btrfs. Grub didn't care for that and I'm not sure that it does now. I selected ext4 and all was good. I liked it but missed the leap to Leap so ran it to well past its expiration date. The box got a upgraded processor, SSD, and Fedora.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 21:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <avVQP.28969$quzb.24237@fx11.iad> |
| In reply to | #689830 |
On 2025-05-01 20:17, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 1 May 2025 18:43:07 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > >> I had a lot of luck with the SUSE Linux versions back in the late 90s >> and early 2000s. > > I liked SUSE and still have a version where it came in a shrink wrapped > box with hardcopy documentation and the whole enchilada on CDs. (DVDs?) > > I initially had problems with 13.2. By default it formatted the boot > partition with btrfs. Grub didn't care for that and I'm not sure that it > does now. I selected ext4 and all was good. I liked it but missed the > leap to Leap so ran it to well past its expiration date. The box got a > upgraded processor, SSD, and Fedora. I don't know whether SUSE handles or doesn't handle btrfs but Endeavour runs it great. It's what I use on both my laptops, and I even formatted my portable SSD in it. So far, so good. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 07:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7jbd4Fi49mU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689836 |
On Thu, 1 May 2025 21:47:50 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > I don't know whether SUSE handles or doesn't handle btrfs but Endeavour > runs it great. It's what I use on both my laptops, and I even formatted > my portable SSD in it. So far, so good. run 'df -T'. Fedora uses btrfs -- except for /boot, which is ext4. That was the default. Ubuntu uses ext4, but /boot/efi is vfat. Raspberry Pi OS, also in the Debian family, uses ext4 but /boot/firmware is also vfat. I believe the vfat is a UEFI thing. The Fedora box does not have a UEFI bios. There seems to be something with @. https://askubuntu.com/questions/967172/grub2-does-not-detect-btrfs- partition The OpenSUSE I was installing for a dual boot was 13.2 from 2014. SUSE was one of the first distros to use btrfs. It was still a little experimental. Whatever the case it didn't work with btrfs at the time. The filesystem is another one of those things I don't care about as long as it works. I only get involved when it doesn't. My preference was ReiserFS but somehow it became unpopular when Reiser solved his nagging wife problem. I believe it was finally removed from the kernel in 6.13.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 09:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <my3RP.5$LiG1.1@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #689849 |
On 2025-05-02 03:43, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 1 May 2025 21:47:50 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > > >> I don't know whether SUSE handles or doesn't handle btrfs but Endeavour >> runs it great. It's what I use on both my laptops, and I even formatted >> my portable SSD in it. So far, so good. > > run 'df -T'. Fedora uses btrfs -- except for /boot, which is ext4. That > was the default. Ubuntu uses ext4, but /boot/efi is vfat. Raspberry Pi > OS, also in the Debian family, uses ext4 but /boot/firmware is also vfat. > I believe the vfat is a UEFI thing. The Fedora box does not have a UEFI > bios. > > There seems to be something with @. > > https://askubuntu.com/questions/967172/grub2-does-not-detect-btrfs- > partition > > The OpenSUSE I was installing for a dual boot was 13.2 from 2014. SUSE was > one of the first distros to use btrfs. It was still a little experimental. > Whatever the case it didn't work with btrfs at the time. > > The filesystem is another one of those things I don't care about as long > as it works. I only get involved when it doesn't. My preference was > ReiserFS but somehow it became unpopular when Reiser solved his nagging > wife problem. I believe it was finally removed from the kernel in 6.13. I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot about it. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 20:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7kngpFouscU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #689856 |
On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every > publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything > else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its > worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot > about it. It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress his murderous impulses.
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| From | Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 20:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pan$415b4$180b3987$cb7e6350$7b6e4dfa@linux.rocks> |
| In reply to | #689871 |
On 2 May 2025 20:16:26 GMT, rbowman wrote: > > It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some > operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as > was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a > while to catch on. > Reiserfs is a filesystem that supports tail packing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_suballocation The ext* filesystems do not support tail packing. Btrfs supports tail packing but I would never trust my data to that piece of shit. If one has huge numbers of very small files then tail packing is a great advantage. That's why I always used reiserfs until those fucking bastards deprecated it. -- Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 19:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <cBcRP.21790$J0J2.5159@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #689871 |
On 2025-05-02 16:16, rbowman wrote: > On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > >> I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every >> publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything >> else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its >> worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot >> about it. > > It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some > operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as > was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a > while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 > rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. > > btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety > ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to > name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress > his murderous impulses. I can't recall what made me want to try ReiserFS but I believe it was the journaling function. As a user, you don't really see any of the benefits, but at the time I had no idea that it wasn't a new feature at all. I was completely unaware that NTFS already had it. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 00:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn101antt.3om.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689885 |
On 2025-05-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-05-02 16:16, rbowman wrote: >> On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: >> >>> I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every >>> publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything >>> else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its >>> worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot >>> about it. >> >> It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some >> operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as >> was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a >> while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 >> rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. >> >> btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety >> ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to >> name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress >> his murderous impulses. > > I can't recall what made me want to try ReiserFS but I believe it was > the journaling function. As a user, you don't really see any of the > benefits, but at the time I had no idea that it wasn't a new feature at > all. I was completely unaware that NTFS already had it. > It was apparently much better when there were lots of small files, but also a bit more prone to corruption. ext3 has been rock solid for me, NEVER failed me, and the point of a filesystem is to store my files reliably. Most of the time, you won't notice a performance difference if you're just a regular desktop/laptop user.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-02 22:16 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <M%eRP.2$RXsc.0@fx36.iad> |
| In reply to | #689894 |
On 2025-05-02 20:13, Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-05-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 2025-05-02 16:16, rbowman wrote: >>> On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: >>> >>>> I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every >>>> publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything >>>> else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its >>>> worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot >>>> about it. >>> >>> It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some >>> operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as >>> was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a >>> while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 >>> rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. >>> >>> btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety >>> ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to >>> name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress >>> his murderous impulses. >> >> I can't recall what made me want to try ReiserFS but I believe it was >> the journaling function. As a user, you don't really see any of the >> benefits, but at the time I had no idea that it wasn't a new feature at >> all. I was completely unaware that NTFS already had it. >> > > It was apparently much better when there were lots of small files, but > also a bit more prone to corruption. ext3 has been rock solid for me, > NEVER failed me, and the point of a filesystem is to store my files > reliably. Most of the time, you won't notice a performance difference > if you're just a regular desktop/laptop user. Well, I can only hope that btrfs is an excellent filesystem for the long term because that's what I chose. Just to be safe, I set it up for snapshots, but I can't imagine it corrupting my data the way that Windows managed to. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 10:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn101bt81.6df.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689899 |
On 2025-05-03, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-05-02 20:13, Borax Man wrote: >> On 2025-05-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> On 2025-05-02 16:16, rbowman wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>> >>>>> I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every >>>>> publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything >>>>> else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its >>>>> worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot >>>>> about it. >>>> >>>> It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some >>>> operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as >>>> was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a >>>> while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 >>>> rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. >>>> >>>> btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety >>>> ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to >>>> name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress >>>> his murderous impulses. >>> >>> I can't recall what made me want to try ReiserFS but I believe it was >>> the journaling function. As a user, you don't really see any of the >>> benefits, but at the time I had no idea that it wasn't a new feature at >>> all. I was completely unaware that NTFS already had it. >>> >> >> It was apparently much better when there were lots of small files, but >> also a bit more prone to corruption. ext3 has been rock solid for me, >> NEVER failed me, and the point of a filesystem is to store my files >> reliably. Most of the time, you won't notice a performance difference >> if you're just a regular desktop/laptop user. > > Well, I can only hope that btrfs is an excellent filesystem for the long > term because that's what I chose. Just to be safe, I set it up for > snapshots, but I can't imagine it corrupting my data the way that > Windows managed to. > I've used it for storage partitions, and on my wifes laptops. So far its been pretty good, and I've been using it for years now. It has a bad repuation, but my personal experience is good. I didn't use it on this laptop, mostly because I wasn't going to use the features, needed something basic. Maybe I'll convert this laptop to BTRFS.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 09:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iVoRP.39616$eDv2.38030@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #689916 |
On 2025-05-03 06:50, Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-05-03, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 2025-05-02 20:13, Borax Man wrote: >>> On 2025-05-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> On 2025-05-02 16:16, rbowman wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every >>>>>> publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything >>>>>> else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its >>>>>> worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot >>>>>> about it. >>>>> >>>>> It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some >>>>> operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as >>>>> was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a >>>>> while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 >>>>> rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. >>>>> >>>>> btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety >>>>> ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to >>>>> name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress >>>>> his murderous impulses. >>>> >>>> I can't recall what made me want to try ReiserFS but I believe it was >>>> the journaling function. As a user, you don't really see any of the >>>> benefits, but at the time I had no idea that it wasn't a new feature at >>>> all. I was completely unaware that NTFS already had it. >>>> >>> >>> It was apparently much better when there were lots of small files, but >>> also a bit more prone to corruption. ext3 has been rock solid for me, >>> NEVER failed me, and the point of a filesystem is to store my files >>> reliably. Most of the time, you won't notice a performance difference >>> if you're just a regular desktop/laptop user. >> >> Well, I can only hope that btrfs is an excellent filesystem for the long >> term because that's what I chose. Just to be safe, I set it up for >> snapshots, but I can't imagine it corrupting my data the way that >> Windows managed to. >> > > I've used it for storage partitions, and on my wifes laptops. So far > its been pretty good, and I've been using it for years now. > > It has a bad repuation, but my personal experience is good. I didn't > use it on this laptop, mostly because I wasn't going to use the > features, needed something basic. Maybe I'll convert this laptop to > BTRFS. I'm always wary of converting one filesystem to another. It just gives me the impression that things are very likely to break. I'm just hoping that I'm not wrong about btrfs and that despite its reputation with some, it's as rock-solid as I've been led to believe. If it isn't, I'll just reinstall and use ext4. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-04 09:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn101ee4o.be1.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #689927 |
On 2025-05-03, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-05-03 06:50, Borax Man wrote: >> On 2025-05-03, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> On 2025-05-02 20:13, Borax Man wrote: >>>> On 2025-05-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>> On 2025-05-02 16:16, rbowman wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 2 May 2025 09:13:55 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't know much about ReiserFS back around 2004, but every >>>>>>> publication was saying that it was a huge improvement over everything >>>>>>> else so I used it in the limited time I ran Gentoo. I can't speak to its >>>>>>> worth. In fact, I'm happy you mentioned it because I largely forgot >>>>>>> about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was a journaling file system, which ext2 was not and faster for some >>>>>> operations. Linux was trailing the pack. AIX was journaled in the '90s, as >>>>>> was NTFS. ext3 came out in 2001, the same year as ReiserFS but it took a >>>>>> while to catch on. Distros cited technical reasons for going to ext3 >>>>>> rather than Reiser being on trial for murder. >>>>>> >>>>>> btrfs owes more to ReiserFS 4 than ext3/ext4. Without the notoriety >>>>>> ReiserFS would probably have been developed instead. Not a good idea to >>>>>> name a project after yourself although Torvalds has been able to suppress >>>>>> his murderous impulses. >>>>> >>>>> I can't recall what made me want to try ReiserFS but I believe it was >>>>> the journaling function. As a user, you don't really see any of the >>>>> benefits, but at the time I had no idea that it wasn't a new feature at >>>>> all. I was completely unaware that NTFS already had it. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It was apparently much better when there were lots of small files, but >>>> also a bit more prone to corruption. ext3 has been rock solid for me, >>>> NEVER failed me, and the point of a filesystem is to store my files >>>> reliably. Most of the time, you won't notice a performance difference >>>> if you're just a regular desktop/laptop user. >>> >>> Well, I can only hope that btrfs is an excellent filesystem for the long >>> term because that's what I chose. Just to be safe, I set it up for >>> snapshots, but I can't imagine it corrupting my data the way that >>> Windows managed to. >>> >> >> I've used it for storage partitions, and on my wifes laptops. So far >> its been pretty good, and I've been using it for years now. >> >> It has a bad repuation, but my personal experience is good. I didn't >> use it on this laptop, mostly because I wasn't going to use the >> features, needed something basic. Maybe I'll convert this laptop to >> BTRFS. > > I'm always wary of converting one filesystem to another. It just gives > me the impression that things are very likely to break. I'm just hoping > that I'm not wrong about btrfs and that despite its reputation with > some, it's as rock-solid as I've been led to believe. If it isn't, I'll > just reinstall and use ext4. > Don't bother unless you've got a good reason to use it. It's good, yes. The snapshots are useful, but so are backups. It does introduce some new administrative things you have to take care of. I use it on volumes where I specifically required snapshots, and needed checksumming. It's good, but I would still recommend EXT4 for situations where BTRFS's additional features are not specifically required.
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