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I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system

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  I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-07 22:20 -0500
    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:31 -0500
      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-07 22:53 -0500
      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 09:17 -0500
        Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
          Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:11 -0500
            Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 14:21 -0500
            Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-09 07:06 -0600
              Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-01-09 13:43 +0000
              Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-09 10:36 -0500
    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 06:34 +0000
      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 09:20 -0500
        Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:26 +0000
          Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 08:47 +0000
      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:18 -0500
        Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:22 +0000
        Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-09 01:02 +0000
          Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 08:48 +0000
            Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-09 10:01 -0500
              Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-09 11:11 -0500
                Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-09 11:47 -0500
                Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-09 18:37 +0000
                  Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 13:52 -0500
                    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-10 00:19 +0000
                      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-10 06:51 -0500
                        Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-10 20:54 +0000
                  Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-10 09:06 +0000
                  Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-10 10:28 -0500
                    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-10 11:25 -0500
                    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 11:37 -0500
                    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-10 20:59 +0000
                      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 16:06 -0500
                        Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-11 02:53 +0000
                          Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 02:12 -0500
                      Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-10 16:24 -0500
                    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-12 06:43 +0000
              Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 09:14 +0000
          Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-09 07:42 -0500
    Re: I asked System76 if they would sell a Windows system CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 09:15 -0500

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#683506

On 2025-01-09 11:11, DFS wrote:
> On 1/9/2025 10:01 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2025-01-09 03:48, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's got to be in the millions.
>>>>
>>>> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
>>>> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
>>>> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
>>>> restaurant?
>>>
>>> DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.
>>
>> Admittedly, I don't see why a person intending to use Windows would 
>> complain that System76 or ThinkPenguin isn't catering to them.
> 
> 
> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows 
> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they 
> would sell Linux preinstalls.

Each manufacturer specializes in a type of system. System76 proudly 
specializes in Linux and even uses its own brand of the open-source 
system. It would make no sense to ask them to bundle Linux the same way 
that it would be weird to ask ASUS to make a Linux system when they sell 
Windows-only machines. If there were no Linux alternative, I can imagine 
asking ASUS to make an exception but otherwise it makes no sense.

-- 
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

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#683530

On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:

> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
> would sell Linux preinstalls.

And their answers?  Dell has a number.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
linux-os

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#683535

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>
>And their answers?  Dell has a number.
>
>https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>linux-os


Not bad.  Although Ubuntu has never been my preferred distro.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683557

On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 13:52:21 -0500, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>
>>And their answers?  Dell has a number.
>>
>>https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>>linux-os
> 
> 
> Not bad.  Although Ubuntu has never been my preferred distro.

I'll agree with that. After my update to 24.04 yesterday I found I have a 
block of BSD games on the menu.

https://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/BSD_games

WTF?  Even more confusing while there is an icon they have to be started 
from the command line in a terminal. I didn't like 'adventure' back in the 
day and certainly didn't expect it to be part of an 'upgrade'

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#683590

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 13:52:21 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>>
>>>And their answers?  Dell has a number.
>>>
>>>https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>>>linux-os
>> 
>> Not bad.  Although Ubuntu has never been my preferred distro.
>
> I'll agree with that. After my update to 24.04 yesterday I found I have a 
> block of BSD games on the menu.
>
> https://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/BSD_games
>
> WTF?  Even more confusing while there is an icon they have to be started 
> from the command line in a terminal. I didn't like 'adventure' back in the 
> day and certainly didn't expect it to be part of an 'upgrade'

Adventure is already installed on my Debian and Arch systems. They seem to be
compiled with different options, though. And stored in completely different
places.

On Arch, not a lot of room taken up:

% ls -l /usr/bin/adventure
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 97464 May  1  2024 /usr/bin/adventure
me@mlsleno ~
% ldd /usr/bin/adventure
        linux-vdso.so.1 (0x000074b9a9f3a000)
        libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0x000074b9a9d01000)
        /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 => /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x000074b9a9f3c000)

-- 
I know you're in search of yourself, I just haven't seen you anywhere.

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#683649

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 06:51:19 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Adventure is already installed on my Debian and Arch systems. They seem
> to be compiled with different options, though. And stored in completely
> different places.

I think figured out where the bsdgames came from. Last spring I probably 
installed them to get the wtf acronym finder, used it a couple of times, 
and forgot about it. The games didn't show up on the desktop until the 
upgrade.  Deleting the badgames directory from /usr/share/applications and 
refreshing the database got rid of the icons. It's bad enough the desktop 
has stuff in no particular order without a dozen icons that don't do 
anything. 

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#683576

On 9 Jan 2025 18:37:50 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<luajbuFsh02U2@mid.individual.net>:

> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
> 
>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
> 
> And their answers?  Dell has a number.
> 
> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
> linux-os

I think he was looking for workstations.  The following has
those, as well as desktops:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/scr/desktops/appref=ubuntu-linux-os

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.12.9 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
   "Don't ask me, I only work here."

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#683607

On 1/9/2025 1:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
> 
>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
> 
> And their answers?  Dell has a number.
> 
> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
> linux-os


Dell has offered a limited number of Linux systems for about 15 years.

Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would 
install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

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#683613

On 2025-01-10 10:28, DFS wrote:
> On 1/9/2025 1:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>>
>> And their answers?  Dell has a number.
>>
>> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>> linux-os
> 
> 
> Dell has offered a limited number of Linux systems for about 15 years.
> 
> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would 
> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

And I'm sure you loaded FreeDOS onto every last one of them!

-- 
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683616

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 1/9/2025 1:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 11:11:47 -0500, DFS wrote:
>> 
>>> I wasn't complaining.  I was curious if they would sell a Windows
>>> system.  Thru the years I've asked 6 or 8 Windows PC vendors if they
>>> would sell Linux preinstalls.
>> 
>> And their answers?  Dell has a number.
>> 
>> https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-
>> linux-os
>
>Dell has offered a limited number of Linux systems for about 15 years.
>
>Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would 
>install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.


I would expect Win11 Home to come with my ARM laptop, I'd need it to
download Linux to replace it, if I didn't already have the media from
my desktop that is.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683650

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would
> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
> discount.

I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE. 
The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what 
the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost to 
the system.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683653

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would
>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>> discount.
>
>I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE. 
>The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what 
>the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost to 
>the system.


OEMs' parts are junk.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683682

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:06:26 -0500, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would
>>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>>> discount.
>>
>>I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
>>The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
>>the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost
>>to the system.
> 
> 
> OEMs' parts are junk.

???  Leaving apart the worth of Windows how is a OEM Windows Pro license 
junk? 

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#683688

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:06:26 -0500, Joel wrote:
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would
>>>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>>>> discount.
>>>
>>>I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE.
>>>The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what
>>>the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost
>>>to the system.
>> 
>> OEMs' parts are junk.
>
>???  Leaving apart the worth of Windows how is a OEM Windows Pro license 
>junk? 


I meant hardware, not the OS.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683657

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Most PC OEMs only sell Windows.  I don't recall any saying they would
>> install Linux for me, but a few would sell a no-OS system for a
>> discount.
>
> I never bothered. The old Dell had 7 and I dual booted it with OpenSUSE. 
> The Beelink had 11 Pro and I replaced it with Ubuntu. I don't know what 
> the manufacturers pay for the OEM licenses but it doesn't add much cost to 
> the system.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25249808

    Reminds me of that Bill Gates quote from 1998:

    Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people
    don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an
    audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to
    steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and
    then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.

-- 
Truthful, adj.: Dumb and illiterate.
		-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

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#683804

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:28:16 -0500, DFS wrote:

> ... a few would sell a no-OS system for a discount.

I’m surprised they didn’t charge you extra.

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#683580

On 2025-01-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-01-09 03:48, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>>>>
>>>> It's got to be in the millions.
>>>
>>> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would
>>> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing
>>> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood
>>> restaurant?
>> 
>> DuFuS always clutches at straws in his lame attempts to denigrate Linux.
>
> Admittedly, I don't see why a person intending to use Windows would 
> complain that System76 or ThinkPenguin isn't catering to them.

He "thinks" he's making a point.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#683462

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 12:18:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 1/8/2025 1:34 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:20:56 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>> 
>>>> ... customers are welcome to install other operating systems on our
>>>> hardware without voiding your warranty.
>>> 
>>> Well, that’s one polite way to tell you to piss off.
>> 
>> I wonder how many requests they get for Windows.
>> 
>> It's got to be in the millions.
>
> System 76? Given the wealth of choices for Windows machines why would 
> anyone, except DFS, approach a vendor whose raison d'être is providing 
> Linux machines asking for Windows? Do you order a steak in a seafood 
> restaurant?

Surf 'n' Turf

-- 
You can never do just one thing.
		-- Hardin

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#683359

On 2025-01-07 22:20, DFS wrote:
> 
> "Hi DFS,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in our products! While System76 only 
> installs, tests, and supports Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, customers are welcome 
> to install other operating systems on our hardware without voiding your 
> warranty. We test against the Linux kernel, and distros with a current 
> kernel will most likely work well.
> 
> We can't guarantee that other distros will function at 100% but we do 
> offer a 30 day limited money back guarantee on all purchases, so if 
> there's an issue you can return for a full refund minus the cost of 
> shipping and any damages. You can find more details about our warranty 
> here: https://system76.com/warranty.
> 
> I am also including a link to a support article that goes into detail 
> about using Windows on our systems:
> 
> https://support.system76.com/articles/windows
> 
> Thanks again and please let us know if you need anything else.
> Sincerely,
> 
> Bill"
> 
> 
> That support article is actually very very good.  Seems like a 
> trustworthy company.

Yeah, it does. I was considering a Mac after this machine bites the dust 
but System76 manufactures machines that are a lot closer to what I would 
be looking for. I'm not interested in Pop_OS! itself though. It's fine, 
but I'd rather not use GNOME.

-- 
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

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