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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #680832 > unrolled thread

The problem with not owning the software

Started byCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
First post2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Last post2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 255 — 29 participants

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Contents

  The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
      Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
        Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
              Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:46 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
                                                                  The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
                                                            [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
                                                              [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-05 11:05 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 13:29 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 13:53 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 15:08 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 10:17 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 10:28 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 11:26 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 12:34 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 12:40 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 14:23 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 16:27 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:05 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:50 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 16:16 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:46 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 11:36 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 18:58 -0500
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:59 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 02:18 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:41 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:08 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 13:54 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:26 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:43 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
    Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500

Page 6 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 4 5 [6] 7 8 … 13  Next page →


#681811

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
Message-ID<vkvfi0$1sirn$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681706
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a colleague who's done some amazing stuff in Excel using Visual
>> Basic Script (VBS); the PC I had at the time would fail just trying to
>> load the files; his beefy machine he had would take literally hours to
>> crunch through a set.  A quick search shows that I still have an older
>> copy: it takes up 14.34GB on disk. Youch.
> 
> Sounds horribly inefficient and virtually impossible to debug. I'd bet a
> decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny footprint and
> be reliable.

Even Microsoft realizes that now.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682063

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
Message-ID<vl3reg$2runj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681811
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have a colleague who's done some amazing stuff in Excel using Visual
>>> Basic Script (VBS); the PC I had at the time would fail just trying to
>>> load the files; his beefy machine he had would take literally hours to
>>> crunch through a set.  A quick search shows that I still have an older
>>> copy: it takes up 14.34GB on disk. Youch.
>> 
>> Sounds horribly inefficient and virtually impossible to debug. I'd bet a
>> decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny footprint and
>> be reliable.
> 
> Even Microsoft realizes that now.

I presume you're referring to excel now including a python interpreter. I
don't think it's much of an improvement. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682088

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
Message-ID<vl4578$2tjip$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682063
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> I'd bet a decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny
>>> footprint and be reliable.
>> 
>> Even Microsoft realizes that now.
> 
> I presume you're referring to excel now including a python interpreter.
> I don't think it's much of an improvement.

Obviously Microsoft is expecting its users to think otherwise. And it 
wants to charge them for the privilege, so it must be expecting them to 
believe it’s an improvement worth paying extra money for.

So either Python is that much better than VBA, or VBA is that much worse 
than Python. Take your pick. ;)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682093

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
Message-ID<vl469t$2t9aq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682088
On 1/1/2025 2:31 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd bet a decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny
>>>> footprint and be reliable.
>>>
>>> Even Microsoft realizes that now.
>>
>> I presume you're referring to excel now including a python interpreter.
>> I don't think it's much of an improvement.
> 
> Obviously Microsoft is expecting its users to think otherwise. And it
> wants to charge them for the privilege, so it must be expecting them to
> believe it’s an improvement worth paying extra money for.
> 
> So either Python is that much better than VBA, or VBA is that much worse
> than Python. Take your pick. ;)


I figured you were lying about MS (your mouth was moving).  Python in 
Excel costs NOTHING.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/python-in-excel#pricing-plans

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#682119

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
Message-ID<vl4e3a$2v362$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682093
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:50:25 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 1/1/2025 2:31 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd bet a decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny
>>>>> footprint and be reliable.
>>>>
>>>> Even Microsoft realizes that now.
>>>
>>> I presume you're referring to excel now including a python
>>> interpreter. I don't think it's much of an improvement.
>> 
>> Obviously Microsoft is expecting its users to think otherwise. And it
>> wants to charge them for the privilege, so it must be expecting them to
>> believe it’s an improvement worth paying extra money for.
>> 
>> So either Python is that much better than VBA, or VBA is that much
>> worse than Python. Take your pick. ;)
> 
> Python in Excel costs NOTHING.
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/python-in-excel#pricing-plans

Read the fine print.

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#682178

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
Message-ID<ltm5ldFihk6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#682093
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:50:25 -0500, DFS wrote:

> I figured you were lying about MS (your mouth was moving).  Python in
> Excel costs NOTHING.
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/python-in-excel#pricing-
plans

with a few caveats.... Even with an enterprise subscription if you want 
the full meal deal pony up.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/python-in-excel-
availability-781383e6-86b9-4156-84fb-93e786f7cab0

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682176

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
Message-ID<ltm579FifenU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#682088
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 19:31:52 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> Obviously Microsoft is expecting its users to think otherwise. And it
> wants to charge them for the privilege, so it must be expecting them to
> believe it’s an improvement worth paying extra money for.

That's only fair. It helps pay von Rossum's salary.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682230

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
Message-ID<vl57cv$36qpj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682088
On Wed, 1/1/2025 2:31 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd bet a decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny
>>>> footprint and be reliable.
>>>
>>> Even Microsoft realizes that now.
>>
>> I presume you're referring to excel now including a python interpreter.
>> I don't think it's much of an improvement.
> 
> Obviously Microsoft is expecting its users to think otherwise. And it 
> wants to charge them for the privilege, so it must be expecting them to 
> believe it’s an improvement worth paying extra money for.
> 
> So either Python is that much better than VBA, or VBA is that much worse 
> than Python. Take your pick. ;)
> 

   "Python in Excel is available in preview for Education users running the
    Current Channel (Preview) through the Microsoft 365 Insider Program. It's
    not currently available for the Semi-Annual Enterprise Channel.

    It's rolling out to Excel for Windows first, and then to other platforms
    at a later date.
   "

And like the current Thunderbird rewrite activity, it's based on the notion
that "users want New and Shiny" and "abhor boomers and all they stand for".
Thus, the desired market demographic, is to shift to the younger crowd,
to keep the business running.

Python then, is just grabbing at the first shiny thing they can see.
There is an expectation that all the users have taken a Python course
at least once in their lives. Or, at least the people that count, have.

One of the benefits of using Python, is then LibreOffice can add that,
and files with scripting can be interchanged. It would solve a certain class
of problem we have with Excel, which is the exclusivity of VBA.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682235

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
Message-ID<vl58fm$36ulr$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682230
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 00:15:11 -0500, Paul wrote:

> One of the benefits of using Python, is then LibreOffice can add that,
> and files with scripting can be interchanged. It would solve a certain
> class of problem we have with Excel, which is the exclusivity of VBA.

I wouldn’t hold your breath about that. I don’t think Microsoft is 
offering an API for accessing Office from Python comparable with 
LibreOffice’s PyUNO. Certainly nothing like that was mentioned on the 
referenced page.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682247

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Message-ID<vl5vlk$3b63u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682230
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 1/1/2025 2:31 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:45:04 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:25:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'd bet a decent python script would do it in minutes, with a tiny
>>>>> footprint and be reliable.
>>>> 
>>>> Even Microsoft realizes that now.
>>> 
>>> I presume you're referring to excel now including a python interpreter.
>>> I don't think it's much of an improvement.
>> 
>> Obviously Microsoft is expecting its users to think otherwise. And it 
>> wants to charge them for the privilege, so it must be expecting them to 
>> believe it’s an improvement worth paying extra money for.
>> 
>> So either Python is that much better than VBA, or VBA is that much worse 
>> than Python. Take your pick. ;)
>> 
> 
>    "Python in Excel is available in preview for Education users running the
>     Current Channel (Preview) through the Microsoft 365 Insider Program. It's
>     not currently available for the Semi-Annual Enterprise Channel.
> 
>     It's rolling out to Excel for Windows first, and then to other platforms
>     at a later date.
>    "
> 
> And like the current Thunderbird rewrite activity, it's based on the notion
> that "users want New and Shiny" and "abhor boomers and all they stand for".
> Thus, the desired market demographic, is to shift to the younger crowd,
> to keep the business running.

This has been MS's model for at least 30 years. Introducing features that
99% of people won't use and not fix bugs. 

> Python then, is just grabbing at the first shiny thing they can see.
> There is an expectation that all the users have taken a Python course
> at least once in their lives. Or, at least the people that count, have.

Doubtful it'll be useful as python for excel won't be standard, but
definition. 

> One of the benefits of using Python, is then LibreOffice can add that,
> and files with scripting can be interchanged. It would solve a certain class
> of problem we have with Excel, which is the exclusivity of VBA.

Sorry, but that's hopelessly naive. 

LO should have stopped copying excel long ago and taken its users to a
better spreadsheet experience. 

LO should work with Posit and build a proper analytical/statistical data
platform based around R. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682392

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
Message-ID<vl72g8$3h9eh$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682247
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:24 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> LO should have stopped copying excel long ago and taken its users to a
> better spreadsheet experience.

Actually, it already did. Note recommendation in this research paper
<https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008984>,
that if you really must use a spreadsheet to work with important data,
at least make it LibreOffice Calc and not Microsoft Excel.

> LO should work with Posit and build a proper analytical/statistical data
> platform based around R.

We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682680

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
Message-ID<vla6jr$61h7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682392
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:24 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> LO should have stopped copying excel long ago and taken its users to a
>> better spreadsheet experience.
> 
> Actually, it already did. Note recommendation in this research paper
> <https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008984>,
> that if you really must use a spreadsheet to work with important data,
> at least make it LibreOffice Calc and not Microsoft Excel.

LO must have changed their behaviour as when I tested this many years ago
when working with genomic data it behaved the same as excel. I noticed
recently that excel finally has a toggle for date recognition and
conversion. Which is way, way too late as it is a moot issue as the
problematic gene names have officially been changed to circumvent excel:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-020-0669-3

>> LO should work with Posit and build a proper analytical/statistical data
>> platform based around R.
> 
> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.

Not user-friendly enough. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682695

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
Message-ID<vlaen8$au6q$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682680
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:32:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.
> 
> Not user-friendly enough.

If by “user-friendly” you mean “aimed at those accustomed to Microsoft 
mediocrity”, then you’d be right.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682732

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
Message-ID<vlassr$cv6i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682695
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:32:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.
>> 
>> Not user-friendly enough.
> 
> If by “user-friendly” you mean “aimed at those accustomed to Microsoft 
> mediocrity”, then you’d be right.

I mean if presented to someone for the first time do they have a fighting
chance of creating *anything*. With jupyter that's a big fat nope. 

People aren't coders and typically don't want to be. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682863

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
Message-ID<vlckhr$mcpa$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682732
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 08:52:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:32:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.
>>> 
>>> Not user-friendly enough.
>> 
>> If by “user-friendly” you mean “aimed at those accustomed to Microsoft
>> mediocrity”, then you’d be right.
> 
> I mean if presented to someone for the first time do they have a
> fighting chance of creating *anything*. With jupyter that's a big fat
> nope.

Which is why it’s so good you can use existing notebooks as a starting 
point. A notebook is not just something to look at, it’s something you can 
interact with.

Here <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i40d8-Hu4vM> is an example of what 
can be done with Jupyter, for use by totally non-techy, quality-demanding, 
paying-customer types.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682870

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
Message-ID<vlclt6$mu8b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682863
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 08:52:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:32:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.
>>>> 
>>>> Not user-friendly enough.
>>> 
>>> If by “user-friendly” you mean “aimed at those accustomed to Microsoft
>>> mediocrity”, then you’d be right.
>> 
>> I mean if presented to someone for the first time do they have a
>> fighting chance of creating *anything*. With jupyter that's a big fat
>> nope.
> 
> Which is why it’s so good you can use existing notebooks as a starting 
> point. A notebook is not just something to look at, it’s something you can 
> interact with.

Which is where the problems start. A novice will edit something, fuck up
the notebook, and have no idea how to fix it. 

> Here <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i40d8-Hu4vM> is an example of what 
> can be done with Jupyter, for use by totally non-techy, quality-demanding, 
> paying-customer types.

I have no doubt that jupyter is awesome. In the right hands. Not for excel
jockeys. 


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682899

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
Message-ID<vlcsj9$nnc8$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682870
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:05:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> I have no doubt that jupyter is awesome. In the right hands. Not for
> excel jockeys.

That’s their fault for sticking to a mediocre tool that is only capable of 
mediocre results.

Either the quality of such work is crucial to the success of the company 
employing them, or it is not. If it is, then they drag the whole company 
down relative to its smarter competitors. If it isn’t, then they are just 
deadweight.

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#682770

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
Message-ID<O2ceP.256279$ZAue.230404@fx12.iad>
In reply to#682695
On 2025-01-03 23:50, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:32:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.
>>
>> Not user-friendly enough.
> 
> If by “user-friendly” you mean “aimed at those accustomed to Microsoft
> mediocrity”, then you’d be right.

At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more 
user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint 
and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is 
friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you 
don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in the 
applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. For 
drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't work 
right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is 
impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control 
Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others 
through the web which means that some are repairable and easily 
uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, 
Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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#682778

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
Message-ID<vlbk3v$h0k1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682770
On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:


> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more 
> user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint 
> and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is 
> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you 
> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in the 
> applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. For 
> drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't work 
> right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is 
> impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control 
> Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others 
> through the web which means that some are repairable and easily 
> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, 
> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.


Right-click on the Win11 Start button.



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#682783

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
Message-ID<WBceP.21821$a6K9.17616@fx06.iad>
In reply to#682778
On 2025-01-04 10:29, DFS wrote:
> On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
> 
>> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more user- 
>> friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint 
>> and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is 
>> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you 
>> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in 
>> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. 
>> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they 
>> don't work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which 
>> is impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the 
>> Control Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, 
>> others through the web which means that some are repairable and easily 
>> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, 
>> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.
> 
> 
> Right-click on the Win11 Start button.

You missed the point: there is inconsistency. Why would you update 
through Windows Update but manage through Device Manager? Why would 
Device Manager be listed by right-clicking the Start button (by the way, 
how would anyone know it's there?) but not in the Settings? People are 
likely to be more lost in Windows than in Linux Mint.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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