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  🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-20 00:16 +0000
    Re: 🐧:\> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:04 -0500
      Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-20 01:13 +0000
        Re: 🐧:\> Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-19 20:24 -0600
          Re: 🐧:\> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-12-20 03:19 +0000
            Re: 🐧:\> % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 20:36 -0700
            Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-20 08:04 -0500
              Re: 🐧:\> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-20 10:52 -0500
          Re: 🐧:\> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-20 07:24 -0500
          Re: 🐧:\> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-20 08:41 -0500
            Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-20 20:42 +0000
              Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-20 16:25 -0500
                Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-21 00:35 +0000
                  Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-20 20:42 -0500
                    Re: 🐧:\> % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 18:58 -0700
                      Re: 🐧:\> % 🔕 🎼 🎵 🎶 🎙️ 🎚️ 🎛️ 🎤 <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 18:59 -0700
                    Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-21 03:35 +0000
                      Re: 🐧:\> OLIVER <ldo@nz.invalid.FFFFFFFFFFFFF> - 2024-12-21 05:45 +0000
                        Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-21 07:08 +0000
                          Re: I'm confused by today's Forbes article on Windows update Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-21 04:00 -0500
          Re: 🐧:\> T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 18:04 -0800
        Re: 🐧:\> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-20 08:33 -0500
          Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-20 20:42 +0000
            Re: 🐧:\> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-20 16:12 -0500
              Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-21 00:34 +0000
            Re: 🐧:\> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-20 16:45 -0500
              Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-20 20:57 -0500
                Re: 🐧:\> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:21 -0500
                  Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-21 08:05 -0500
                    Re: 🐧:\> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 08:46 -0500
                    Re: 🐧:\> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-21 09:04 -0500
                      Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-21 09:52 -0500
                Re: 🐧:\> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-21 07:36 -0500
                  Re: 🐧:\> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-21 09:30 -0500
            Re: 🐧:\> T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 18:11 -0800
    Re: 🐧:\> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-20 07:21 -0500
    Re: 🐧:\> DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-20 09:38 -0500
      Re: 🐧:\> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-20 20:41 +0000

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#680829 — 🐧:\>

On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 12:19:21 -0500, Newyana2 wrote:

> Linux lacks the software.

Linux is the only platform that offers a full native suite for both ARM 
and x86 (both 32-bit and 64-bit). No other platform can match that. 
Microsoft has been spending millions trying to get Windows to work 
properly on ARM, but it still can’t manage it. Microsoft has also been 
spending millions trying to make Windows more like Linux -- and it can’t 
manage that either.

You don’t hear of Linus Torvalds lying awake at nights, trying to figure 
out how to add drive letters to Linux, do you?

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#680833

Le 2024-12-19 à 19:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 12:19:21 -0500, Newyana2 wrote:
> 
>> Linux lacks the software.
> 
> Linux is the only platform that offers a full native suite for both ARM
> and x86 (both 32-bit and 64-bit). No other platform can match that.
> Microsoft has been spending millions trying to get Windows to work
> properly on ARM, but it still can’t manage it. Microsoft has also been
> spending millions trying to make Windows more like Linux -- and it can’t
> manage that either.
> 
> You don’t hear of Linus Torvalds lying awake at nights, trying to figure
> out how to add drive letters to Linux, do you?

This is indeed a fair point. Microsoft has indeed made a few things in 
Windows more like Linux. winget comes to mind.

-- 
CrudeSausage

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#680836

On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> winget comes to mind.

Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?

Did I miss any?

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#680844

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> winget comes to mind.
> 
> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
> 
> Did I miss any?
> 

Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to 
install it? I must have missed that.

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#680848

On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:24:35 -0600, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid>
wrote in <vk2kh2$34hvq$5@dont-email.me>:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> 
>>> winget comes to mind.
>> 
>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>> 
>> Did I miss any?
>> 
>> 
> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to
> install it? I must have missed that.

Most common distributions have some sort of software manager.

Here's is Linux Mint's:

   https://imgur.com/EgkWlC7

Another graphical package manager is Synaptic.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.12.6 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
   "(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer?"

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#680850

vallor wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:24:35 -0600, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid>
> wrote in <vk2kh2$34hvq$5@dont-email.me>:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> winget comes to mind.
>>>
>>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>>>
>>> Did I miss any?
>>>
>>>
>> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to
>> install it? I must have missed that.
> 
> Most common distributions have some sort of software manager.
> 
> Here's is Linux Mint's:
> 
>     https://imgur.com/EgkWlC7
> 
> Another graphical package manager is Synaptic.
> 
why would i take an image and ,
turn it into something else ,
why not just make the image i want

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#680866

On Thu, 12/19/2024 10:19 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:24:35 -0600, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid>
> wrote in <vk2kh2$34hvq$5@dont-email.me>:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> winget comes to mind.
>>>
>>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>>>
>>> Did I miss any?
>>>
>>>
>> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to
>> install it? I must have missed that.
> 
> Most common distributions have some sort of software manager.
> 
> Here's is Linux Mint's:
> 
>    https://imgur.com/EgkWlC7
> 
> Another graphical package manager is Synaptic.
> 

Linux has several generations of presentation of software.

* Software-Store-like presentation (the latest method)

* GUI presentation of package manager text (the practical way)

* Textual command line search (what came before the GUI, still useful)
  (The Snap Search was truncated, to not embarrass the people who made it).

    [Picture]

     https://i.postimg.cc/q7J4NWMW/Ubuntu-Selecting-Software.gif

No special care was used in selecting the test subject for that picture.
It was whatever was available in the VM list.

For the Software Store, I provide two frames. The timestamp of starting
to install a software. And the timestamp when the effort is "finished".

A total of 12 minutes, when the .deb version would install in a minute, tops.

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/pTsVcCNT/Ubuntu-2404-App-Store-GIMP-Test.gif

What I did in preparation for that shot, is

   snap refresh

This downloads recent copies of the Gnome Desktop snap, which is huge.
If you don't do that, the App Store does an implicit "refresh" while
you are sitting there with egg on your face. You could easily sit
there for half an hour, until the "refresh" is finished. The App Store
does not say "sorry, doing a refresh". There is no status in the GUI
indicating the level of contempt involved.

I separated that part out, so the App Store would not look so bad.
I did the "refresh", before doing the timing run.

Result:

1) App Store takes 12 minutes to download a package that is 10x
   the size of the .deb version.

2) Once the SNAP is loaded (a self-contained execution environment),
   the environment has failed to form a symbolic link from some weirdly
   named shared library, into the appropriate spot. Attempts to launch
   the erstwhile GIMP program, fail.

This is why anyone who really uses the OS, uses Synaptic and .deb files,
something that Linux Mint has too and LM has a better look about it
as it does not feature SNAPS. You can still install the snap subsystem
if you want, but you don't have to. Firefox is a .deb in Linux Mint.
For now at least.

   Paul

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#680890

Paul wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Thu, 12/19/2024 10:19 PM, vallor wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:24:35 -0600, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid>
>> wrote in <vk2kh2$34hvq$5@dont-email.me>:
>> 
>> Most common distributions have some sort of software manager.
>> Here's is Linux Mint's:
>> 
>>    https://imgur.com/EgkWlC7
>> 
>> Another graphical package manager is Synaptic.
>
> Linux has several generations of presentation of software.
>
> * Software-Store-like presentation (the latest method)
> * GUI presentation of package manager text (the practical way)
> * Textual command line search (what came before the GUI, still useful)
>   (The Snap Search was truncated, to not embarrass the people who made it).
>
>     [Picture]
>
>      https://i.postimg.cc/q7J4NWMW/Ubuntu-Selecting-Software.gif
>
> No special care was used in selecting the test subject for that picture.
> It was whatever was available in the VM list.
>
> For the Software Store, I provide two frames. The timestamp of starting
> to install a software. And the timestamp when the effort is "finished".
>
> A total of 12 minutes, when the .deb version would install in a minute, tops.
>
>    [Picture]
>
>     https://i.postimg.cc/pTsVcCNT/Ubuntu-2404-App-Store-GIMP-Test.gif
>
> What I did in preparation for that shot, is
>
>    snap refresh
>
> This downloads recent copies of the Gnome Desktop snap, which is huge.
> If you don't do that, the App Store does an implicit "refresh" while
> you are sitting there with egg on your face. You could easily sit
> there for half an hour, until the "refresh" is finished. The App Store
> does not say "sorry, doing a refresh". There is no status in the GUI
> indicating the level of contempt involved.
>
> I separated that part out, so the App Store would not look so bad.
> I did the "refresh", before doing the timing run.
>
> Result:
>
> 1) App Store takes 12 minutes to download a package that is 10x
>    the size of the .deb version.
>
> 2) Once the SNAP is loaded (a self-contained execution environment),
>    the environment has failed to form a symbolic link from some weirdly
>    named shared library, into the appropriate spot. Attempts to launch
>    the erstwhile GIMP program, fail.
>
> This is why anyone who really uses the OS, uses Synaptic and .deb files,
> something that Linux Mint has too and LM has a better look about it
> as it does not feature SNAPS. You can still install the snap subsystem
> if you want, but you don't have to. Firefox is a .deb in Linux Mint.
> For now at least.

Arch Linux (the other distro I use) has a couple of command-line apps.
Maybe there's a cutesy GUI, but I just goo-goo for the package name if
the obvious name doesn't work with pacman.

(Pacman and Arch-like packages are also used on Windows in the MSYS2 system).

On Debian (Sid) I have used the ncurses (I think) app called "aptitude", for
years and years.

-- 
Armadillo:
	To provide weapons to a Spanish pickle.

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#680863

Hank Rogers wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> 
>>> winget comes to mind.
>> 
>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>> 
>> Did I miss any?
>
> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to 
> install it? I must have missed that.

Then you blind. They're called "repositories", not stores, and there's no cost
to install.  Most Linux distroes (Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Arch, CentOS)
have then. See vallor's response.

-- 
You can do this in a number of ways.  IBM chose to do all of them.
Why do you find that funny?
		-- D. Taylor, Computer Science 350

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#680871

Le 2024-12-19 à 21:24, Hank Rogers a écrit :
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> winget comes to mind.
>>
>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>>
>> Did I miss any?
>>
> 
> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to 
> install it? I must have missed that.

The "stores" most Linux distributions offer have that now. In fact, you 
can even go to snapcraft.io or flathub.org and install applications from 
the web page by clicking on them.

-- 
CrudeSausage

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#680908

On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 08:41:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Le 2024-12-19 à 21:24, Hank Rogers a écrit :
>>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> winget comes to mind.
>>>
>>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>>>
>>> Did I miss any?
>>>
>> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to
>> install it? I must have missed that.
> 
> The "stores" most Linux distributions offer have that now.

Or just use a GUI front end to the package management system.

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#680915

On Fri, 12/20/2024 3:42 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 08:41:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> Le 2024-12-19 à 21:24, Hank Rogers a écrit :
>>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 20:04:50 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> winget comes to mind.
>>>>
>>>> Winget, Nuget, Chocolatey, Scoop, Ninite ... Windows Store?
>>>>
>>>> Did I miss any?
>>>>
>>> Damn, is there a linux store where you just click on a program to
>>> install it? I must have missed that.
>>
>> The "stores" most Linux distributions offer have that now.
> 
> Or just use a GUI front end to the package management system.
> 

The software store, is a graphical front for *two* repositories.

The software store will tell you which repository or both of them
have a copy of what you want, and you can select which type
you want. One is bloated, so most people would use the other.

The Synaptic GUI for example, is the GUI for a single repository
filled with .deb files.

The Store concept could handle multiple packaging schemes at
the same time. Whatever the distro happens to support.

   Paul

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#680929

On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:25:06 -0500, Paul wrote:

> The Synaptic GUI for example, is the GUI for a single repository filled
> with .deb files.

Isn’t it a front end for whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/
apt/sources.list.d/*? Which can be any number of repositories?

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#680937

On Fri, 12/20/2024 7:35 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:25:06 -0500, Paul wrote:
> 
>> The Synaptic GUI for example, is the GUI for a single repository filled
>> with .deb files.
> 
> Isn’t it a front end for whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/
> apt/sources.list.d/*? Which can be any number of repositories?
> 

It probably can. But all it was originally designed
for was .deb  as that's all there was at the time.

The Software Stores are of more recent manufacture,
and are an invention of a richer era, so they have
to support more options out of the box. But generally
speaking, in terms of operating speed, and communication
style, they can be slower, and they don't exactly
give you much in the way of hints, on a failure.
Clicking the "Open" and nothing happens, that's
not very nice. At least with a command line launch
after installation, there are error messages.

While I occasionally test the Software Store, I have
zero interest in using it on a daily basis. That would
be an awful way to live. Synaptic by comparison, is a
trustworthy item. I can get thing done with that.
And the lineup is hardly ever wrong. Very good curation
by the staff. You will notice in my random selection
of the GIMP image editor (SNAP version) from the
Software Store thing, not only was it slow, but the
program was broken. I can promise you the .deb version
(like on Linux Mint), won't be broken. That's because
the first level of checking is by Debian staff.

   Paul

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#680945

Paul wrote:
> On Fri, 12/20/2024 7:35 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:25:06 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> The Synaptic GUI for example, is the GUI for a single repository filled
>>> with .deb files.
>>
>> Isn’t it a front end for whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/
>> apt/sources.list.d/*? Which can be any number of repositories?
>>
> 
> It probably can. But all it was originally designed
> for was .deb  as that's all there was at the time.
> 
> The Software Stores are of more recent manufacture,
> and are an invention of a richer era, so they have
> to support more options out of the box. But generally
> speaking, in terms of operating speed, and communication
> style, they can be slower, and they don't exactly
> give you much in the way of hints, on a failure.
> Clicking the "Open" and nothing happens, that's
> not very nice. At least with a command line launch
> after installation, there are error messages.
> 
> While I occasionally test the Software Store, I have
> zero interest in using it on a daily basis. That would
> be an awful way to live. Synaptic by comparison, is a
> trustworthy item. I can get thing done with that.
> And the lineup is hardly ever wrong. Very good curation
> by the staff. You will notice in my random selection
> of the GIMP image editor (SNAP version) from the
> Software Store thing, not only was it slow, but the
> program was broken. I can promise you the .deb version
> (like on Linux Mint), won't be broken. That's because
> the first level of checking is by Debian staff.
> 
>     Paul
> 
what's wrong with your address

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#680946

% wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> On Fri, 12/20/2024 7:35 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:25:06 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Synaptic GUI for example, is the GUI for a single repository filled
>>>> with .deb files.
>>>
>>> Isn’t it a front end for whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/
>>> apt/sources.list.d/*? Which can be any number of repositories?
>>>
>>
>> It probably can. But all it was originally designed
>> for was .deb  as that's all there was at the time.
>>
>> The Software Stores are of more recent manufacture,
>> and are an invention of a richer era, so they have
>> to support more options out of the box. But generally
>> speaking, in terms of operating speed, and communication
>> style, they can be slower, and they don't exactly
>> give you much in the way of hints, on a failure.
>> Clicking the "Open" and nothing happens, that's
>> not very nice. At least with a command line launch
>> after installation, there are error messages.
>>
>> While I occasionally test the Software Store, I have
>> zero interest in using it on a daily basis. That would
>> be an awful way to live. Synaptic by comparison, is a
>> trustworthy item. I can get thing done with that.
>> And the lineup is hardly ever wrong. Very good curation
>> by the staff. You will notice in my random selection
>> of the GIMP image editor (SNAP version) from the
>> Software Store thing, not only was it slow, but the
>> program was broken. I can promise you the .deb version
>> (like on Linux Mint), won't be broken. That's because
>> the first level of checking is by Debian staff.
>>
>>     Paul
>>
> what's wrong with your address

it's weird

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#680958

On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:41 -0500, Paul wrote:

> On Fri, 12/20/2024 7:35 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:25:06 -0500, Paul wrote:
>> 
>>> The Synaptic GUI for example, is the GUI for a single repository
>>> filled with .deb files.
>> 
>> Isn’t it a front end for whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/
>> apt/sources.list.d/*? Which can be any number of repositories?
>> 
> It probably can. But all it was originally designed for was .deb  as
> that's all there was at the time.

Repositories full of .deb files are what I am talking about.

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#680965

On 21/12/2024 03:35, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> 
> Repositories full of .deb files are what I am talking about.
> 

WHAT THE FUCK HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH WINDOWS? WHY ARE LINUX JUNKIES SO 
STUPID?

STOP THE FUCK FROM POSTING THIS ON WINDOWS NEWSGROUP.

NOW GO AND FUCK YOUR SISTER OR EVEN YOUR MOTHER.

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#680969

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 05:45:10 +0000, OLIVER wrote:

> WHAT THE FUCK HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH WINDOWS?

Take a deep breath, and read the thread from the beginning.

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#680977 — Re: I'm confused by today's Forbes article on Windows update

On Sat, 12/21/2024 2:08 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 05:45:10 +0000, OLIVER wrote:
> 
>> WHAT THE FUCK HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH WINDOWS?
> 
> Take a deep breath, and read the thread from the beginning.
> 

A little thread drift perhaps. The original post
was about a click-bait/confused Forbes article.

Using Rufus, you can continue to run "something"
on your PC from the Windows domain, that still works.
As much as the stuff has worked to date (Windows Update
rough edges).

But what the average user will do, who can guess at that.
The average user is not prepared for any complicated
procedures, and if you query the state of the average
user machine, you will find the Windows Update broke
three years ago, and the individual did not notice.

If I go to my local computer store, the cashier
when asked questions, is a very practical person, and
does not engage people in a "buy,buy,buy" conversation.
The staff don't really like their employer, so it's not
surprising what conversations result. If anyone asks
that cashier what to do, they'll just be told to
"keep using what you've got and don't worry about it".
Which is a pretty reasonable answer, for customers
who cannot handle much else in the way of alternatives.

   Paul

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