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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #355182 > unrolled thread

GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior

Started byFabian Russell <fb@zen.info>
First post2016-05-13 22:37 +0000
Last post2016-05-14 06:52 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 215 — 29 participants

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Contents

  GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-05-13 22:37 +0000
    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-13 18:44 -0400
      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-13 20:55 -0400
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior CrimsonIdol <CrimsonIdol@invalid.com> - 2016-05-14 09:19 -0400
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 13:05 -0400
    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-13 16:27 -0700
      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-05-14 01:52 +0200
    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-13 17:29 -0700
      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-13 18:09 -0700
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-05-14 03:13 +0200
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-13 18:25 -0700
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-13 18:36 -0700
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-05-14 13:55 +0000
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-05-14 16:02 +0200
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-13 18:19 -0700
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-13 18:30 -0700
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-13 18:55 -0700
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-13 19:18 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-13 21:28 -0700
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-13 23:53 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 06:41 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 11:34 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior sbd <sbd.pambu@safe-mail.net> - 2016-05-15 08:33 -0300
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 08:01 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-16 13:45 +0000
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-16 09:39 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-16 10:42 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-16 11:02 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 05:07 +0000
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-13 23:53 -0700
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-14 13:18 +0100
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 11:43 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-14 22:44 +0200
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-14 22:25 +0100
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 00:57 +0000
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 18:08 -0700
                      Ronb needs to get what is left of his mind out of the gutter. John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 18:55 -0700
                        Another inebriated evening in Richmond Tattoo Vampire <sitting@this.computer> - 2016-05-14 22:06 -0400
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-05-14 04:25 +0200
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 05:01 +0000
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-14 13:20 +0100
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 06:44 -0700
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-14 15:10 +0100
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 07:26 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 09:12 -0700
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 09:34 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 09:43 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 09:50 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 10:31 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 12:05 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 11:42 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 12:34 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 12:02 -0700
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 13:08 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-14 21:35 -0400
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 18:48 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 18:55 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 02:03 +0000
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 19:17 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 20:05 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 20:06 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 13:05 -0400
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-15 22:32 +0200
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-18 09:14 -0400
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-18 16:49 +0200
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-18 16:59 -0400
                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-18 23:23 +0200
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-18 14:49 -0700
                                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-05-18 22:52 +0000
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-18 16:27 -0700
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2016-06-07 13:43 -0500
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-18 23:08 +0100
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-14 22:39 -0400
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 20:17 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 21:08 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:27 -0400
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 11:32 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:37 -0400
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 11:40 -0700
                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:42 -0400
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-15 22:32 +0200
                                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-05-16 07:14 -0500
                                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-25 17:23 -0400
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-25 23:36 +0200
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-25 17:49 -0400
                                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-26 00:00 +0200
                                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-26 19:26 -0400
                                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-26 18:33 -0700
                                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:49 -0700
                                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 21:19 -0700
                                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-25 21:21 -0700
                                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 21:23 -0700
                                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:24 -0700
                                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 21:22 -0700
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-26 10:17 +0200
                                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-26 09:54 -0700
                                            Lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser misquoting again Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-26 19:37 +0200
                                              Re: Lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser misquoting again Jack Sperm Whale Whalen <jackspermwhalepacific@noemail9.org> - 2016-05-26 17:38 +0000
                                                Re: Lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser misquoting again Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-26 10:43 -0700
                                              Re: Lying imbecile Snit Michael Glasser misquoting again Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-26 10:42 -0700
                                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Jack Sperm Whale Whalen <jackspermwhalepacific@noemail9.org> - 2016-05-26 17:41 +0000
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 11:37 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Meat Puppet <up@yourfat.ass> - 2016-05-14 17:20 -0400
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-14 14:32 +0000
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-05-14 16:36 +0200
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-14 15:17 +0000
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-16 14:44 +0000
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 07:57 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-14 15:36 +0000
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-05-14 15:52 +0000
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 09:07 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-14 17:05 +0000
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 10:09 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 08:20 +0000
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 05:26 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 13:32 +0000
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 07:24 -0700
                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 15:14 +0000
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 08:24 -0700
                                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 16:26 +0000
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 10:23 -0700
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-16 05:28 +0000
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 12:00 -0700
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 21:20 +0000
                                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 14:21 -0700
                                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-16 05:31 +0000
                                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-16 09:51 -0700
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-05-16 19:49 -0600
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 11:30 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-05-16 19:45 -0600
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-17 05:52 +0000
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-05-17 19:26 -0600
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 09:28 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 12:41 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 08:18 +0000
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 05:23 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-15 06:23 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 06:52 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-15 07:24 -0700
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 07:30 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-15 06:58 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 07:33 -0700
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-15 07:59 -0700
                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 08:06 -0700
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 08:12 -0700
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-15 08:44 -0700
                                    Re: I paid $293 for my TeraByte SSD, a Samsung 850 EVO. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 20:04 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 09:27 -0700
                          Re: If you know nothing about computers, or you're really poor... benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-16 00:33 -0400
                            Re: If you know nothing about computers, or you're really poor... "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-05-15 22:49 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 13:23 +0000
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 07:21 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-15 16:07 +0100
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 08:22 -0700
                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-15 16:48 +0100
                                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 10:03 -0700
                                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 13:47 -0400
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 10:55 -0700
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 11:15 -0700
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:19 -0400
                                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 11:22 -0700
                                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:24 -0400
                                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-05-15 18:08 +0000
                                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTLY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:10 -0400
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 16:24 +0000
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 09:36 -0700
                              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 10:16 -0700
                                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-15 21:20 +0000
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 11:28 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 11:33 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-16 15:12 +0000
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2016-05-16 16:27 +0000
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-14 23:00 -0400
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-14 22:56 -0400
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 20:09 -0700
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-14 20:20 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 21:16 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-15 09:49 +0100
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 05:29 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 12:07 -0400
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 13:04 -0400
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 10:28 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 13:55 -0400
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 11:15 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:40 -0400
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-05-15 11:43 -0700
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:44 -0400
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-15 14:47 -0400
                            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-15 22:59 +0100
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-15 12:44 -0700
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2016-05-16 11:27 +0100
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-16 13:27 +0200
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2016-05-16 12:46 +0100
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2016-05-16 13:07 +0100
              Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-16 10:03 -0700
                Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-16 19:12 +0200
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-05-16 12:29 -0500
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-05-16 15:19 -0400
                  Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-16 10:32 -0700
                    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-16 10:51 -0700
                      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-16 11:02 -0700
                        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-16 11:23 -0700
                          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-16 12:17 -0700
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-16 10:04 -0700
      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-05-14 13:58 +0000
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-14 11:35 -0700
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-14 21:16 +0000
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 14:51 -0700
            Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior ronb <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 00:59 +0000
          Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-05-15 00:27 +0000
    GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-13 17:59 -0700
      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior Mick Maelstrom <mickmael@tehsaurus.invalid> - 2016-05-14 01:26 +0000
        Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-16 12:31 +0000
      Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY Superior John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 09:35 -0700
    Re: GNU/Linux Is VASTY [sic] Superior John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 06:52 -0700

Page 6 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 4 5 [6] 7 8 … 11  Next page →


#357339

FromJack Sperm Whale Whalen <jackspermwhalepacific@noemail9.org>
Date2016-05-26 17:41 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2016.05.26.17.45.25@noemail9.org>
In reply to#357320
On Thu, 26 May 2016 09:54:33 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 5/26/16, 1:17 AM, in article ni6b8b$juj$2@dont-email.me, "Peter
> Köhlmann"
> <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
>> And Snit Michael Glasser never uses socks.
> 
> Correct... but you and your herd have a never ending gag. Whatever.
> 
> ...

Other than talking about Apple, Windows, Microsoft and you, what do they 
talk about?
You are driving them crazy because they know they can't challenge your 
videos. All they have his copious amounts of flatulence backing up and 
spewing forth from their mouths.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355316

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2016-05-14 11:37 -0700
Message-ID<D35CBE89.72EF5%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#355283
On 5/14/16, 7:10 AM, in article
f7oj0d-2nm.ln1@user-1842.linux.individual.net, "William Poaster"
<wp@dev.null> wrote:

>> Yeah, fun fact, Pixar uses Linux to render their movies. Edits the movie
>> with Avid, not Final Cut. LOL. Like I always say, we eat our own
>> dogfood. Apple, and Pixar by extension of the former owner Steve Jobs,
>> does not. 
>> 
>> I would be parading my OS around the most advanced if I wasn't even
>> willing to use it in the data center or as a rendering farm. I wouldn't
>> be advertising my Non-Linear Editor as the best if I myself was using
>> Avid. It's pretty darn hypocritical if you ask me.
> 
> From Anderson Moorer (Senior Visual Effects Artist) - May 2014:-
> 
> "Linux is used in many studios, it is a popular choice because it is
> stable and powerful, embraces open source and is highly customizable,
> and can be adjusted to maximize computing resources instead of a
> machine being saddled with a lot of unnecessary bells and whistles
> which is important when dealing with high performance computing.
>  The argument could be made that by removing operating system demands on
> CPU and memory Linux makes any given machine more powerful and therefore
> able to render images at higher quality, and that this could be summarized as
> "machines running Linux are better at rendering." But this is
> a secondary effect due to a more streamlined OS, and is also a result
> only obtained with effort and work."

I think for this type of work, where computer crunching capabilities are of
great importance and the computer is not likely used for many other tasks,
Linux is a great choice. The reasons you give above all make perfect sense
to me.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355346

FromMeat Puppet <up@yourfat.ass>
Date2016-05-14 17:20 -0400
Message-ID<ndk8wjv4i1zc.dlg@cola.sucks>
In reply to#355316
Snit wrote:

> work

What do you know about work, you little sissy?

"Oh, yeah, that's what my wife does every day to earn money."

What a loser the Prescott Computer Pussy is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355285

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-14 14:32 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-7c943cb5affbf9b20c8be2bae7706ffb@individual.net>
In reply to#355277
In article <SrWdnXZ3zbhPtqrKnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
wrote:

> > William Poaster:
> > Also Disney-Pixar who uses GNU/Linux server farms *&* GNU/LInux
> > desktops to create their animations.
> 
> Yeah, fun fact, Pixar uses Linux to render their movies. Edits the
> movie with Avid, not Final Cut. LOL. Like I always say, we eat our
> own dogfood. Apple, and Pixar by extension of the former owner Steve
> Jobs, does not.

Final Cut was once the goto application for medium to large video editing 
outfits, but it has fallen out of grace with the entire Final Cut X thing. It 
has tried to redeem itself, but people had already switched to other 
applications, they couldn't wait for Apple to get things right.

This is a direct result of a more consumer-focused Apple, and for the 
professionals it sure is a shame.

And as for render farms and Linux, with Linux being more streamlined and 
getting the most of out the hardware. One *could* use Darwin in the exact same 
way. It is free, open source and runs on Macs and PCs. But there's a lot of 
Linux developers out there and for these kind of specialized server/node 
installations, it has become standard.

I used to run my platform on Apple Xserves. I liked the stability and the ease 
of management (the built in LOM was really nice) as well as the small form 
factor packing a serious punch. Also, setting up Link Aggregation (LACP) is as 
easy as clicking a few buttons, as well as fibre channel support for RAID. And 
as the old Apple motto is; it "just works".

When the Xserve was EOL:ed I had to move to Linux, which was fine, I've used 
Linux extensively since 1994, but getting it up and running with all that neat 
functionality wasn't as seamless as with the Apple solution, and if you're 
rolling your own server, there's few good 1U solutions out there. I moved from 
a 8U rack space to a 36U rack space by moving to Linux, which was a shame.

Since then I've moved from colo to a hardware host, so I have no idea what 
their actual hardware looks like now.

LOM for Linux isn't really available, you have to use some form of remote KVM 
solution, which is fine when it works, but it's stuck behind a private VPN as 
of now and it's really cumbersome. Not Linux's fault however, but I really 
enjoyed it being built in and accessible by common GUI tools.

Obviously I could run Darwin on all my PC servers, but I have no reason not to 
run Linux.

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355286

FromMelzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com>
Date2016-05-14 16:36 +0200
Message-ID<20160514163648.489f028e@maxa-pc>
In reply to#355285
On 14 May 2016 14:32:44 GMT
Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:

> 
> Obviously I could run Darwin on all my PC servers, but I have no
> reason not to run Linux.
> 

How do you install Darwin at all? I can;t find any recent ISO?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355288

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-14 15:17 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-f2cf3bd1c249a179ecf255643cd5b875@individual.net>
In reply to#355286
In article <20160514163648.489f028e@maxa-pc>, Melzzzzz wrote:

> On 14 May 2016 14:32:44 GMT

> > Sandman:
> > Obviously I could run Darwin on all my PC servers, but I have no
> > reason not to run Linux.
> 
> How do you install Darwin at all? I can;t find any recent ISO?

No, there aren't any, you have roll it on your own. Apple shut down OpenDarwin 
due to lack of interest. puredarwin.org tried to keep it up until version 9 
(Mac OS X Leopard) and MacOSForge.org has trunk for Darwin 10 and 11 (Snow 
Leopard and Lion). But all the source code is available directly from Apple at 
http://opensource.apple.com.

My point wasn't that Darwin is as easy to install as Linux (or other Unix and 
UNIX operating systems) but that Linux isn't special in itself other than being 
widespread in this space. There is nothing that Linux brings to the table that 
can't be implemented using other similar kernels and operating systems (like 
Darwin, BSD, etc).

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355610

Fromvallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Date2016-05-16 14:44 +0000
Message-ID<dpu4m2F6tu7U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#355286
On Sat, 14 May 2016 16:36:48 +0200, Melzzzzz wrote:

> On 14 May 2016 14:32:44 GMT Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Obviously I could run Darwin on all my PC servers, but I have no reason
>> not to run Linux.
>> 
>> 
> How do you install Darwin at all? I can;t find any recent ISO?

   http://opensource.apple.com//static/iso/

I just got it installed in a Linux virtual host using virt-manager -- 
fairly straightforward, though I had to a) use the Darwin fdisk manually, 
and b) reboot and restart the install process before it would ask me what 
kind of filesystem I wanted to use.

Also, when you fdisk, make sure to run the "update" command to ensure 
your disk image will have the mbr code for booting.

It's a cute parlor trick, but Linux has much more to offer. :)

-- 
 -v
"Desktops, workstations and servers are and Microsoft
is doing very well. AS well as Linux." -"Slimer"
"I do not see desktop Linux as a failure." -"Snit"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355287

FromMarek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>
Date2016-05-14 07:57 -0700
Message-ID<Gpidnftmqox6oarKnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#355285
On 2016-05-14, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <SrWdnXZ3zbhPtqrKnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
> wrote:
>
>> > William Poaster:
>> > Also Disney-Pixar who uses GNU/Linux server farms *&* GNU/LInux
>> > desktops to create their animations.
>> 
>> Yeah, fun fact, Pixar uses Linux to render their movies. Edits the
>> movie with Avid, not Final Cut. LOL. Like I always say, we eat our
>> own dogfood. Apple, and Pixar by extension of the former owner Steve
>> Jobs, does not.
>
> Final Cut was once the goto application for medium to large video editing 
> outfits, but it has fallen out of grace with the entire Final Cut X thing. It 
> has tried to redeem itself, but people had already switched to other 
> applications, they couldn't wait for Apple to get things right.
>
> This is a direct result of a more consumer-focused Apple, and for the 
> professionals it sure is a shame.
>
> And as for render farms and Linux, with Linux being more streamlined and 
> getting the most of out the hardware. One *could* use Darwin in the exact same 
> way. It is free, open source and runs on Macs and PCs. But there's a lot of 
> Linux developers out there and for these kind of specialized server/node 
> installations, it has become standard.
>
> I used to run my platform on Apple Xserves. I liked the stability and the ease 
> of management (the built in LOM was really nice) as well as the small form 
> factor packing a serious punch. Also, setting up Link Aggregation (LACP) is as 
> easy as clicking a few buttons, as well as fibre channel support for RAID. And 
> as the old Apple motto is; it "just works".
>
> When the Xserve was EOL:ed I had to move to Linux, which was fine, I've used 
> Linux extensively since 1994, but getting it up and running with all that neat 
> functionality wasn't as seamless as with the Apple solution, and if you're 
> rolling your own server, there's few good 1U solutions out there. I moved from 
> a 8U rack space to a 36U rack space by moving to Linux, which was a shame.
>
> Since then I've moved from colo to a hardware host, so I have no idea what 
> their actual hardware looks like now.
>
> LOM for Linux isn't really available, you have to use some form of remote KVM 
> solution, which is fine when it works, but it's stuck behind a private VPN as 
> of now and it's really cumbersome. Not Linux's fault however, but I really 
> enjoyed it being built in and accessible by common GUI tools.
>
> Obviously I could run Darwin on all my PC servers, but I have no reason not to 
> run Linux.

I think Apple's problem is they just don't care about their customers.
Dropping the Xserve and XRAID as I KNEW they would is just another
example. When they introduced those two products the first thing I said
was, don't buy it, they'll drop it and you'll be left with unsupported
hardware. And Apple did exactly as I said. Just like the old days when
they cut the number of slots down to 3 even though Avid editors were
begging them not to because more slots were needed to have a full
editing system. Apple was and still is more concerned about how it looks
than anything else. 

And if we look at their current hardware lineup, again, what do we see
with the iMac... How the hell do you fix anything? It's basically a big
BIC lighter. The trash can, how do you upgrade the video?

I'm sure it was easy to use, but I have to say I am just against
virtually everything they do. It blows my mind that their customers
express such love for a company that is quite obviously MILKING them
like crazy. 40% gross margin. Holy cow that's a lot. And products you
can't even service easily. And they call this good design??  On what
planet is Ive a good designer? He's a dipshit loser that can't design
both form and function in the same widget. 

Look at any G4 tower. All you had to do was open the side door and the
whole motherboard was right in front of you and easily accessible. Then
the Dual G5 hit with the cooling zones. Getting a hard drive in and out
of there with the screws pretty much required a twisty screw driver.
That extremely small space for the expansion cards wasn't exactly ideal
either. And if the screw fell in there, good luck getting it back out. 

I will acknowledge that they at least fixed the hard drive situation in
later models, but I always found the design to be poor. Cluttered like
crazy while at the same time I could by a $100 case and build a fast
computer with lots of room to maneuver inside. I could buy one of
thousands of motherboards and basically build whatever I want. In my
mind, that is good design. It is serviceable, expandable, open and
functional. I have yet to see Apple match what a simple case that costs
$50 can do. 

I have nothing but contempt for the company. It's one giant lock-in
factory. At least with Windows you have lots of choice with regard to
hardware. Apple in my opinion is one of the rare companies that just got
lucky. And I for one can't wait to watch them crumble. And I say this,
they will be all into open when they do. All of the sudden they will be
champions of openness when the shit hits the fan. Same old shit... We
love you guys. We just love making great shit. Please... Who drinks this
koolaid? 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355290

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-14 15:36 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-48c7966cb699517d5423c3f28193d909@individual.net>
In reply to#355287
In article <Gpidnftmqox6oarKnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
wrote:

> > Sandman:
> > Final Cut was once the goto application for medium to large video
> > editing outfits, but it has fallen out of grace with the entire
> > Final Cut X thing. It has tried to redeem itself, but people had
> > already switched to other applications, they couldn't wait for
> > Apple to get things right.
> 
> > This is a direct result of a more consumer-focused Apple, and for
> > the professionals it sure is a shame.
> 
> > And as for render farms and Linux, with Linux being more
> > streamlined and getting the most of out the hardware. One *could*
> > use Darwin in the exact same way. It is free, open source and runs
> > on Macs and PCs. But there's a lot of Linux developers out there
> > and for these kind of specialized server/node installations, it
> > has become standard.
> 
> > I used to run my platform on Apple Xserves. I liked the stability
> > and the ease of management (the built in LOM was really nice) as
> > well as the small form factor packing a serious punch. Also,
> > setting up Link Aggregation (LACP) is as easy as clicking a few
> > buttons, as well as fibre channel support for RAID. And as the old
> > Apple motto is; it "just works".
> 
> > When the Xserve was EOL:ed I had to move to Linux, which was fine,
> > I've used Linux extensively since 1994, but getting it up and
> > running with all that neat functionality wasn't as seamless as
> > with the Apple solution, and if you're rolling your own server,
> > there's few good 1U solutions out there. I moved from a 8U rack
> > space to a 36U rack space by moving to Linux, which was a shame.
> 
> > Since then I've moved from colo to a hardware host, so I have no
> > idea what their actual hardware looks like now.
> 
> > LOM for Linux isn't really available, you have to use some form of
> > remote KVM solution, which is fine when it works, but it's stuck
> > behind a private VPN as of now and it's really cumbersome. Not
> > Linux's fault however, but I really enjoyed it being built in and
> > accessible by common GUI tools.
> 
> > Obviously I could run Darwin on all my PC servers, but I have no
> > reason not to run Linux.
> 
> I think Apple's problem is they just don't care about their
> customers.

Sure they do, just not their small user base of *professional* customers, 
which is outnumbered by the consumer space by a large margin. They're 
focusing on where they are making most money, as any healthy corporation 
should do. 

> Dropping the Xserve and XRAID as I KNEW they would is just another
> example.

They dropped it in 2010, three years after the release of the iPhone and the 
more consumer-related direction of the company. It's a shame, but not 
unexpected. 

> When they introduced those two products the first thing I said was,
> don't buy it, they'll drop it and you'll be left with unsupported
> hardware.

Well, they introduced the Xserve back in 2002, so it was on the market for 
quite a while, actually. And they did release server-specific software (and 
still do) for it. Anyone in the server business that bought hardware in 2002 
would have upgraded since then anyhow. Anyone that bought Xserve's in 2009 is 
going to feel a bit pissed though. :)

> And Apple did exactly as I said. Just like the old days when they
> cut the number of slots down to 3 even though Avid editors were
> begging them not to because more slots were needed to have a full
> editing system. Apple was and still is more concerned about how it
> looks than anything else.

That's true to a degree, looks are important - in the consumer space. And 
since the consumer space is where the money is at, Apple had no problem 
letting some of their professional users go due to limiting hardware.

> And if we look at their current hardware lineup, again, what do we
> see with the iMac... How the hell do you fix anything? It's
> basically a big BIC lighter. The trash can, how do you upgrade the
> video?

That's just how computers works these days, you're just not keeping up :) You 
and I may be keen to open up the case and switch RAM and HDD if it so pleases 
us, but the general user (the one that make out some 99.9% of the market) 
just doesn't care any longer. Regardless of whether it's an iMac or a PC, 
they just don't open it up and much about with the insides.

Indeed, I am currently having severe problems with my gaming PC, which 
crashes now and then for unknown reasons, likely hardware, and even though 
I've bult and modified hundreds of PCs in my days, I'm less inclined to do so 
now, I just want the damn thing to work.

> I'm sure it was easy to use, but I have to say I am just against
> virtually everything they do. It blows my mind that their customers
> express such love for a company that is quite obviously MILKING them
> like crazy. 40% gross margin. Holy cow that's a lot. And products
> you can't even service easily. And they call this good design?? On
> what planet is Ive a good designer? He's a dipshit loser that can't
> design both form and function in the same widget.

Well, obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but as you are aware, it's 
not reflect by the people that does buy these products, and Apple laptops and 
the iMac is selling like crazy as you're probably also aware of. Not to 
mention their iOS products. And if there is a slump in the sales (which I'm 
sure you'd cite next) it's not because the customers can't change the HDD in 
the iMac easily.

For the record, I *have* changed the HDD in three iMacs. It's a bit of a 
process, but it's quite possible, and there's lots of videos to show you how. 
Just because Apple doesn't make it super easy like with the PowerMac G3 and 
G4 doesn't mean it can't be done. I've done the same with numerous Mac mini's 
that has been given new life with SDD and plenty more RAM.

> Look at any G4 tower. All you had to do was open the side door and
> the whole motherboard was right in front of you and easily
> accessible.

Which I aree was really neat. But, even so - and even regarding the most 
tinker friendly of users, you'd only actually do it once or twice over the 
course of ownership. You'd open it up and add some more RAM, or add a second 
video card. But it's not like you'd open it up weekly and add/remove stuff 
from the innards of it. It was a neat function at the time, but its 
usefulness was a bit overstated.

> Then the Dual G5 hit with the cooling zones. Getting a
> hard drive in and out of there with the screws pretty much required
> a twisty screw driver. That extremely small space for the expansion
> cards wasn't exactly ideal either. And if the screw fell in there,
> good luck getting it back out.

I added many secondary GFX cards to G5's and never had any problems. It was a 
bit more stuff to get out of the way at times, but not a problem. 

> I will acknowledge that they at least fixed the hard drive situation
> in later models, but I always found the design to be poor. Cluttered
> like crazy while at the same time I could by a $100 case and build a
> fast computer with lots of room to maneuver inside. I could buy one
> of thousands of motherboards and basically build whatever I want. In
> my mind, that is good design. It is serviceable, expandable, open
> and functional. I have yet to see Apple match what a simple case
> that costs $50 can do.

You're comparing a BMW to a kit car, though. If you buy all the parts, you 
know beforehand what size case you need, and the "lots of room" factor is 
something you decide. You *can* buy a $89 case which will be super cramped as 
well. Macs are built with specific hardware and there is no reason for Apple 
to leave "lots of room" inside the case, and I'd rather see them add lots of 
intelligent fans in what otherwise would be empty space where I could 
possibly fit a screw driver.

> I have nothing but contempt for the company. It's one giant lock-in
> factory. At least with Windows you have lots of choice with regard
> to hardware.

But for the general customer, that "lots of choice" means whatever choice 
Dell or whoever gives you. If your prime parameter is hardware modification 
availability then you're not only far outside the target market for Apple, 
you're also far outside the common need of the generic computer customer, who 
just doesn't give a rats ass about how supposedly easy it is to open up the 
case.

> Apple in my opinion is one of the rare companies that just got
> lucky. And I for one can't wait to watch them crumble.

Why do you even care? You're obviously not a customer or a share holder, and 
them being successful means absolutely nothing to you. Why would you desire 
for them to fail when so many are using their products?

> And I say this, they will be all into open when they do. All of the
> sudden they will be champions of openness when the shit hits the
> fan. Same old shit... We love you guys. We just love making great
> shit. Please... Who drinks this koolaid?

Not sure what the above is meant to say.

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355291

Fromowl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Date2016-05-14 15:52 +0000
Message-ID<gdjiv03.fdji3@rooftop.invalid>
In reply to#355290
Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <Gpidnftmqox6oarKnZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
> wrote:
> 
...

>> And if we look at their current hardware lineup, again, what do we
>> see with the iMac... How the hell do you fix anything? It's
>> basically a big BIC lighter. The trash can, how do you upgrade the
>> video?
> 
> That's just how computers works these days, you're just not keeping up :) You 
> and I may be keen to open up the case and switch RAM and HDD if it so pleases 
> us, but the general user (the one that make out some 99.9% of the market) 
> just doesn't care any longer. Regardless of whether it's an iMac or a PC, 
> they just don't open it up and much about with the insides.
> 

I would say that there are at least as many computer users today
who are interested in opening the case and tinkering as there
have ever been.

...
 
>> Look at any G4 tower. All you had to do was open the side door and
>> the whole motherboard was right in front of you and easily
>> accessible.
> 
> Which I aree was really neat. But, even so - and even regarding the most 
> tinker friendly of users, you'd only actually do it once or twice over the 
> course of ownership. You'd open it up and add some more RAM, or add a second 
> video card. But it's not like you'd open it up weekly and add/remove stuff 
> from the innards of it. It was a neat function at the time, but its 
> usefulness was a bit overstated.
> 

Most importantly, a door that is rarely opened is so unstylish.

Believe me, I am damned happy that I was able to add RAM to my
laptop that one and only time I had to do it.  It saved me a
shitload of money over what it would have cost to order the
machine with RAM maxed out at the factory.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355297

FromJohn Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-14 09:07 -0700
Message-ID<6e0d7541-b717-492e-8c0c-a7ad16ccb059@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#355291
On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 11:52:30 AM UTC-4, owl wrote:
> 
> I would say that there are at least as many computer users today
> who are interested in opening the case and tinkering as there
> have ever been.


Ooooh! NOT

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355310

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-14 17:05 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-cca91fe5b7ea93c80e9c867ee9c3e056@individual.net>
In reply to#355291
In article <gdjiv03.fdji3@rooftop.invalid>, owl wrote:

> > Sandman:
> > That's just how computers works these days, you're just not
> > keeping up :) You and I may be keen to open up the case and switch
> > RAM and HDD if it so pleases us, but the general user (the one
> > that make out some 99.9% of the market) just doesn't care any
> > longer. Regardless of whether it's an iMac or a PC, they just
> > don't open it up and much about with the insides.
> 
> I would say that there are at least as many computer users today
> who are interested in opening the case and tinkering as there
> have ever been.

Well, I think you're wrong which is based on the fact that all those small 
computer shops that sold computer parts are pretty much gone these days.

But let's assume you're right though - you have to realize that even if the 
number of actual "tinkerers" have remained the same, the computer *market* har 
grown a *lot* the last decade or so, so the part of the user base that are 
tinkerers are shrinking at the same rate.

> > > Marek Novotny:
> > > Look at any G4 tower. All you had to do was open the side door
> > > and the whole motherboard was right in front of you and easily
> > > accessible.
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Which I aree was really neat. But, even so - and even regarding
> > the most tinker friendly of users, you'd only actually do it once
> > or twice over the course of ownership. You'd open it up and add
> > some more RAM, or add a second video card. But it's not like you'd
> > open it up weekly and add/remove stuff from the innards of it. It
> > was a neat function at the time, but its usefulness was a bit
> > overstated.
> 
> Most importantly, a door that is rarely opened is so unstylish.

Indeed.

> Believe me, I am damned happy that I was able to add RAM to my
> laptop that one and only time I had to do it.  It saved me a
> shitload of money over what it would have cost to order the
> machine with RAM maxed out at the factory.

Neat, I've done that to countless Macs that aren't "user upgradable" in the 
common sense. 

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355311

FromMarek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>
Date2016-05-14 10:09 -0700
Message-ID<79ednQSoV9RfxqrKnZ2dnUU7-UGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#355310
On 2016-05-14, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <gdjiv03.fdji3@rooftop.invalid>, owl wrote:
>
>> > Sandman:
>> > That's just how computers works these days, you're just not
>> > keeping up :) You and I may be keen to open up the case and switch
>> > RAM and HDD if it so pleases us, but the general user (the one
>> > that make out some 99.9% of the market) just doesn't care any
>> > longer. Regardless of whether it's an iMac or a PC, they just
>> > don't open it up and much about with the insides.
>> 
>> I would say that there are at least as many computer users today
>> who are interested in opening the case and tinkering as there
>> have ever been.
>
> Well, I think you're wrong which is based on the fact that all those small 
> computer shops that sold computer parts are pretty much gone these days.
>
> But let's assume you're right though - you have to realize that even if the 
> number of actual "tinkerers" have remained the same, the computer *market* har 
> grown a *lot* the last decade or so, so the part of the user base that are 
> tinkerers are shrinking at the same rate.

The gaming market is said to be worth $100 billion annually. Aren't they
more likely to be open to opening their PCs and adding in state of the
art video boards with each release? 

Aren't they likely to want open systems that they can easily get inside
even if they are buying something pre-made? 

// snip

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355438

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-15 08:20 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-6f161053753515d83374ed9cf1e2be53@individual.net>
In reply to#355311
In article <79ednQSoV9RfxqrKnZ2dnUU7-UGdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
wrote:

> > > > Sandman:
> > > > That's just how computers works these days, you're
> > > > just not keeping up :) You and I may be keen to open up the
> > > > case and switch RAM and HDD if it so pleases us, but the
> > > > general user (the one that make out some 99.9% of the market)
> > > > just doesn't care any longer. Regardless of whether it's an
> > > > iMac or a PC, they just don't open it up and much about with
> > > > the insides.
> > > 
> > > owl:
> > > I would say that there are at least as many computer users today
> > > who are interested in opening the case and tinkering as there
> > > have ever been.
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Well, I think you're wrong which is based on the fact that all
> > those small computer shops that sold computer parts are pretty
> > much gone these days.
> 
> > But let's assume you're right though - you have to realize that
> > even if the number of actual "tinkerers" have remained the same,
> > the computer *market* har grown a *lot* the last decade or so, so
> > the part of the user base that are tinkerers are shrinking at the
> > same rate.
> 
> The gaming market is said to be worth $100 billion annually. Aren't
> they more likely to be open to opening their PCs and adding in state
> of the art video boards with each release?

Apple has never had any real interest in the gaming market. It's hard to 
compete with the PC there. Both in hardware and software. OS X supports OpenGL 
but poorly, and there obviously is no DirectX for the Mac, and DX has become a 
bit of a standard.

> Aren't they likely to want open systems that they can easily get
> inside even if they are buying something pre-made?

Nope. Gamers may, but gamers don't buy Macs. Ordinary people couldn't care less 
if the case was welded shut. :)

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355452

FromMarek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>
Date2016-05-15 05:26 -0700
Message-ID<a66dne5EsIt-96XKnZ2dnUU7-RednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#355438
On 2016-05-15, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> Apple has never had any real interest in the gaming market. It's hard to
> compete with the PC there. Both in hardware and software. OS X supports
> OpenGL but poorly, and there obviously is no DirectX for the Mac, and
> DX has become a bit of a standard.

Really?? Perhaps you'd be interested in learning more about Metal,
Apple's core graphics technology...

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355459

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-15 13:32 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-fee2993ae203fc56eb94834e7a2ee9de@individual.net>
In reply to#355452
In article <a66dne5EsIt-96XKnZ2dnUU7-RednZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
wrote:

> > Sandman:
> > Apple has never had any real interest in the gaming market. It's
> > hard to compete with the PC there. Both in hardware and software.
> > OS X supports OpenGL but poorly, and there obviously is no DirectX
> > for the Mac, and DX has become a bit of a standard.
> 
> Really?? Perhaps you'd be interested in learning more about Metal,
> Apple's core graphics technology...

Which pioneered on iOS, where gaming is something they're FAR more interested 
in since it drives the platform. Gaming has never driven the Mac platform.

Had they made some focus on gaming ten or twenty years ago, then perhaps the 
Mac would be different, and then perhaps the upgradeability of the Mac would be 
much more different as well.

As it is, they didn't, and here we are. It's a bit late in the game to imagine 
that Metal is ever going to change this.

That being said - the *Consoles* are the real winners for gaming. While there 
are some neat games for PC still being released, an alarming rate of those are 
poor console ports. And the game developers are more likely to make a native 
iOS version of the game than a PC version sometimes. 

There's still tons of PC-exclusive games out there though, so it's not like 
it's in any real danger (yet).

As for the Mac, it's a bit of chicken or the egg here. Apple ignored gaming 
early on and it thrived on the PC. This led over time that few Mac owners had 
the need for in-box upgradeability, at least in the same rate as PC owners. So 
that's why Apple easily could limit that over time and here we are today.

Had Apple been more consumer-focused back in 2000 (iMac notwithstanding), then 
gaming would probably have been more of a focus. As it is, the iMac was Apple's 
response of people using Macs at work wanting a "cheap" Mac to use at home 
which was named "Performa" :)

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355471

FromMarek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>
Date2016-05-15 07:24 -0700
Message-ID<PK-dna_9ucQWG6XKnZ2dnUU7-KednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#355459
On 2016-05-15, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <a66dne5EsIt-96XKnZ2dnUU7-RednZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
> wrote:
>
>> > Sandman:
>> > Apple has never had any real interest in the gaming market. It's
>> > hard to compete with the PC there. Both in hardware and software.
>> > OS X supports OpenGL but poorly, and there obviously is no DirectX
>> > for the Mac, and DX has become a bit of a standard.
>> 
>> Really?? Perhaps you'd be interested in learning more about Metal,
>> Apple's core graphics technology...
>
> Which pioneered on iOS, where gaming is something they're FAR more interested 
> in since it drives the platform. Gaming has never driven the Mac platform.
>
> Had they made some focus on gaming ten or twenty years ago, then perhaps the 
> Mac would be different, and then perhaps the upgradeability of the Mac would be 
> much more different as well.
>
> As it is, they didn't, and here we are. It's a bit late in the game to imagine 
> that Metal is ever going to change this.
>
> That being said - the *Consoles* are the real winners for gaming. While there 
> are some neat games for PC still being released, an alarming rate of those are 
> poor console ports. And the game developers are more likely to make a native 
> iOS version of the game than a PC version sometimes. 
>
> There's still tons of PC-exclusive games out there though, so it's not like 
> it's in any real danger (yet).
>
> As for the Mac, it's a bit of chicken or the egg here. Apple ignored gaming 
> early on and it thrived on the PC. This led over time that few Mac owners had 
> the need for in-box upgradeability, at least in the same rate as PC owners. So 
> that's why Apple easily could limit that over time and here we are today.
>
> Had Apple been more consumer-focused back in 2000 (iMac notwithstanding), then 
> gaming would probably have been more of a focus. As it is, the iMac was Apple's 
> response of people using Macs at work wanting a "cheap" Mac to use at home 
> which was named "Performa" :)

Do you even hear yourself?? So maybe Apple should have focused a little
on gaming huh? Is that what you are going to say ten years from now
about the enterprise? 

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355484

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-15 15:14 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-fe6e19390462f26ad97677883ef05533@individual.net>
In reply to#355471
In article <PK-dna_9ucQWG6XKnZ2dnUU7-KednZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
wrote:

> > > > Apple has never had any real interest in the gaming
> > > > market. It's hard to compete with the PC there. Both in
> > > > hardware and software. OS X supports OpenGL but poorly, and
> > > > there obviously is no DirectX for the Mac, and DX has become a
> > > > bit of a standard.
> > > 
> > > Marek Novotny:
> > > Really?? Perhaps you'd be interested in learning more about
> > > Metal, Apple's core graphics technology...
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Which pioneered on iOS, where gaming is something they're FAR more
> > interested in since it drives the platform. Gaming has never
> > driven the Mac platform.
> 
> > Had they made some focus on gaming ten or twenty years ago, then
> > perhaps the Mac would be different, and then perhaps the
> > upgradeability of the Mac would be much more different as well.
> 
> > As it is, they didn't, and here we are. It's a bit late in the
> > game to imagine that Metal is ever going to change this.
> 
> > That being said - the *Consoles* are the real winners for gaming.
> > While there are some neat games for PC still being released, an
> > alarming rate of those are poor console ports. And the game
> > developers are more likely to make a native iOS version of the
> > game than a PC version sometimes.
> 
> > There's still tons of PC-exclusive games out there though, so it's
> > not like it's in any real danger (yet).
> 
> > As for the Mac, it's a bit of chicken or the egg here. Apple
> > ignored gaming early on and it thrived on the PC. This led over
> > time that few Mac owners had the need for in-box upgradeability,
> > at least in the same rate as PC owners. So that's why Apple easily
> > could limit that over time and here we are today.
> 
> > Had Apple been more consumer-focused back in 2000 (iMac
> > notwithstanding), then gaming would probably have been more of a
> > focus. As it is, the iMac was Apple's response of people using
> > Macs at work wanting a "cheap" Mac to use at home which was named
> > "Performa" :)
> 
> Do you even hear yourself?? So maybe Apple should have focused a
> little on gaming huh?

No, I just said that *if* they had focused more on gaming then perhaps people 
would actually be gaming on the Mac since two decades back and *then* the 
current Mac lineup might look different, with better internal expandability.

*I* couldn't care less, I have no problem having a gaming PC, or all the 
consoles for that matter.

> Is that what you are going to say ten years from now about the
> enterprise?

Huh? Apple's focus on Enterprise is identical to their focus on gaming - i.e. 
none at all. Never has been.

They've made *some* accommodation along the way, like enabling enterprise 
mail support in the iPhone, or supporting OpenGL and using the then-top-of-
the-line Rage128 in their iMacs and PowerMacs, but none of those things 
amount to any interest overall in the gaming and enterprise market.

And, for those few Macs that *were* and *are* sold to the enterprise it's 
almost exclusively iMacs or laptops. 

-- 
Sandman

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355487

FromMarek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com>
Date2016-05-15 08:24 -0700
Message-ID<IridnYfXCLEOCaXKnZ2dnUU7-SednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#355484
On 2016-05-15, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <PK-dna_9ucQWG6XKnZ2dnUU7-KednZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
> wrote:
>
>> > > > Apple has never had any real interest in the gaming
>> > > > market. It's hard to compete with the PC there. Both in
>> > > > hardware and software. OS X supports OpenGL but poorly, and
>> > > > there obviously is no DirectX for the Mac, and DX has become a
>> > > > bit of a standard.
>> > > 
>> > > Marek Novotny:
>> > > Really?? Perhaps you'd be interested in learning more about
>> > > Metal, Apple's core graphics technology...
>> > 
>> > Sandman:
>> > Which pioneered on iOS, where gaming is something they're FAR more
>> > interested in since it drives the platform. Gaming has never
>> > driven the Mac platform.
>> 
>> > Had they made some focus on gaming ten or twenty years ago, then
>> > perhaps the Mac would be different, and then perhaps the
>> > upgradeability of the Mac would be much more different as well.
>> 
>> > As it is, they didn't, and here we are. It's a bit late in the
>> > game to imagine that Metal is ever going to change this.
>> 
>> > That being said - the *Consoles* are the real winners for gaming.
>> > While there are some neat games for PC still being released, an
>> > alarming rate of those are poor console ports. And the game
>> > developers are more likely to make a native iOS version of the
>> > game than a PC version sometimes.
>> 
>> > There's still tons of PC-exclusive games out there though, so it's
>> > not like it's in any real danger (yet).
>> 
>> > As for the Mac, it's a bit of chicken or the egg here. Apple
>> > ignored gaming early on and it thrived on the PC. This led over
>> > time that few Mac owners had the need for in-box upgradeability,
>> > at least in the same rate as PC owners. So that's why Apple easily
>> > could limit that over time and here we are today.
>> 
>> > Had Apple been more consumer-focused back in 2000 (iMac
>> > notwithstanding), then gaming would probably have been more of a
>> > focus. As it is, the iMac was Apple's response of people using
>> > Macs at work wanting a "cheap" Mac to use at home which was named
>> > "Performa" :)
>> 
>> Do you even hear yourself?? So maybe Apple should have focused a
>> little on gaming huh?
>
> No, I just said that *if* they had focused more on gaming then perhaps people 
> would actually be gaming on the Mac since two decades back and *then* the 
> current Mac lineup might look different, with better internal expandability.
>
> *I* couldn't care less, I have no problem having a gaming PC, or all the 
> consoles for that matter.
>
>> Is that what you are going to say ten years from now about the
>> enterprise?
>
> Huh? Apple's focus on Enterprise is identical to their focus on gaming - i.e. 
> none at all. Never has been.
>
> They've made *some* accommodation along the way, like enabling enterprise 
> mail support in the iPhone, or supporting OpenGL and using the then-top-of-
> the-line Rage128 in their iMacs and PowerMacs, but none of those things 
> amount to any interest overall in the gaming and enterprise market.
>
> And, for those few Macs that *were* and *are* sold to the enterprise it's 
> almost exclusively iMacs or laptops. 

Because no one sees value in the garbage can?

-- 
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#355499

FromSandman <mr@sandman.net>
Date2016-05-15 16:26 +0000
Message-ID<sandman-92372c2e6f15e02cf14c991ba52e6cf9@individual.net>
In reply to#355487
In article <IridnYfXCLEOCaXKnZ2dnUU7-SednZ2d@giganews.com>, Marek Novotny 
wrote:

> > > Marek Novotny:
> > > Is that what you are going to say ten years from now about the
> > > enterprise?
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Huh? Apple's focus on Enterprise is identical to their focus on
> > gaming - i.e. none at all. Never has been.
> 
> > They've made *some* accommodation along the way, like enabling
> > enterprise mail support in the iPhone, or supporting OpenGL and
> > using the then-top-of- the-line Rage128 in their iMacs and
> > PowerMacs, but none of those things amount to any interest overall
> > in the gaming and enterprise market.
> 
> > And, for those few Macs that *were* and *are* sold to the
> > enterprise it's almost exclusively iMacs or laptops.
> 
> Because no one sees value in the garbage can?

If you mean the Mac Pro then yes, I suspect that it will be dropped as a 
product sooner rather than later. Mostly because the next gen iMacs will be 
just as powerful and just as expandable and the USP of the Mac Pro will just 
vanish.

-- 
Sandman

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