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Steam Machine Review

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  Steam Machine Review cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-10 04:41 -0800
    Re: Steam Machine Review Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-11-10 08:28 -0500
      Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 14:00 +0000
        Re: Steam Machine Review Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-11-10 10:40 -0500
    Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-10 14:06 +0000
      Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 14:16 +0000
        Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-10 15:36 +0000
          Re: Steam Machine Review chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-10 09:49 -0600
            Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:58 +0000
              Re: Steam Machine Review Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 08:04 -0800
                Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 16:54 +0000
            Re: Steam Machine Review Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-11-10 11:20 -0500
            Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-10 21:36 +0000
              Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 22:18 +0000
              Re: Steam Machine Review GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-11-10 16:34 -0700
                Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-11 07:44 +0000
                  Re: Steam Machine Review GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-11-11 14:12 -0700
                    Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2015-11-11 15:18 -0600
                    Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-12 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Steam Machine Review GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-11-12 11:49 -0700
                        Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-13 11:44 +0000
          Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:56 +0000
            Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-10 21:38 +0000
              Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 22:16 +0000
                Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-10 23:11 +0000
                  Re: Steam Machine Review Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 23:29 +0000
                    Re: Steam Machine Review Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-11-11 07:43 +0000
                      Re: Steam Machine Review chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-11 07:29 -0600
                        Re: Steam Machine Review chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-11 07:33 -0600
                        Re: Steam Machine Review chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-11 07:37 -0600
                          Re: Steam Machine Review Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-11-11 09:17 -0500
                            Re: Steam Machine Review "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2015-11-11 10:01 -0500
                              Re: Steam Machine Review Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-11-11 10:43 -0500
                              Re: I'm not a fan of 3D games, but I love my high_DPI, IPS 4K monitor. GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-11-12 11:49 -0700
                                Re: I don't want a hologram in my room. GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-11-12 16:13 -0700
                          Re: Steam Machine Review JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-11-13 12:41 -0600
                            Re: Steam Machine Review chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-16 08:24 -0600

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#332854

In article <6uSdncp4RfW2QtnLnZ2dnUU7-VudnZ2d@bresnan.com>, GreyCloud wrote:

> > > > > > > > Sandman:
> > > > > > > > I love to game, and gaming is the only reason
> > > > > > > > to get a PC. Sure, the Steam  Machines are more
> > > > > > > > limited than a PC, but you get that sofa experience so
> > > > > > > > I think  I'll like it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > chrisv:
> > > > > > > Yeah, I lost my love for PC gaming when it
> > > > > > > went-away from joysticks. I don't like being stuck to
> > > > > > > the desk via the keyboard and mouse.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sandman:
> > > > > > I think it's ok. I have a kickass PC rig that
> > > > > > handles anything, and it's really nice. I don't mind
> > > > > > gaming at the desk. I also have a PS4, Xbox One, Xbox 360,
> > > > > > PS3 and WiiU as well :)
> > > > > 
> > > > > GreyCloud:
> > > > > I see on CNN tech page that Tim Cook says the PC
> > > > > is going away. How is Apple going to build iPhone apps
> > > > > without an iMac or Mac Pro?
> > > > 
> > > > Sandman:
> > > > There were a time when people couldn't browse their
> > > > Facebook stream on their phone either.
> > > 
> > > > Whether the PC is going away or not is debatable, but it is
> > > > certainly in decline when people are using mobile units more
> > > > and more.
> > > 
> > > GreyCloud:
> > > Then will apple provide Xcode for the iPhone?
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Probably not for the iPhone, but for the iPad, sure.
> 
> I got an email ad from Apple about the iPad Pro.  It looks nice, but
> if  Tim Cook is going to kill off the iMac line, they'll need a new
> Xcode  for the iPad Pro to develop for the iPhone and other iOS
> devices.

Or for the iPad, period. This is what we've been saying. Why are you repeating 
yourself.

And Apple will "kill off the iMac" when it isn't selling any longer. When or if 
this will happen is anyone's guess.

Xcode (or similar) for the iPad will happen when the iPad as a device is more 
commonplace replacement for a laptop/desktop computer for developers.

Theses events aren't linked. 

-- 
Sandman

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#332290

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 15:36:23 +0000, Sandman wrote:

> In article <daechvFd88pU1@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> > > "I also want to emphasize again how much I liked the controller.
>> > > It succeeds on a couple different levels. First, it really helps in
>> > > making games developed for PC feel like they were actually
>> > > developed for consoles. Second, it takes cues from existing console
>> > > controllers, and improves upon them, like swapping out those dual
>> > > joysticks for dual trackpads, and allowing for unprecedented
>> > > customization, from button commands to the degree of rumbling
>> > > haptic action."
>> > 
>> > > ...
>> > 
>> > > "I'm not crazy about the SteamOS UI--sometimes it feels a little
>> > > too much like a PC, and not in a good way. There's a lot of clutter
>> > > and a lot of text. You're not sitting a foot way from your laptop
>> > > anymore, but the Steam Machine kind of treats you like you are.
>> > > It's the same reason I don't love using an Internet browser on a
>> > > PlayStation 3 or 4, for example. I'd almost just open my laptop on
>> > > the couch next to me."
>> > 
>> > > ...
>> > 
>> > > "If you love PC gaming, and are specifically a long-time Steam user
>> > > who loves PC gaming, then you owe it to yourself to give this puppy
>> > > a go. If you're a gamer who's lukewarm on PC gaming--especially if
>> > > you don't use Steam--don't do it.
>> > 
>> > > Especially given the price. With the cheapest version set at $450,
>> > > that's a hundred bucks more than a PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, and
>> > > a hefty price of admission for a ride you might not enjoy."
>> > 
>> > Sandman:
>> > I'll probably get one soon enough.
>> 
>> Why?
> 
> I love to game, and gaming is the only reason to get a PC. Sure, the
> Steam Machines are more limited than a PC, but you get that sofa
> experience so I think I'll like it.

I'm not a pc gamer, I use the consoles.  Can you not do 'sofa experience' 
with a big screen and controller with a PC running Windows games?




-- 
Lloyd

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#332405

In article <daeieaFelkuU1@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> > Sandman:
> > I love to game, and gaming is the only reason to get a PC. Sure,
> > the Steam Machines are more limited than a PC, but you get that
> > sofa experience so I think I'll like it.
> 
> I'm not a pc gamer, I use the consoles.  Can you not do 'sofa
> experience'  with a big screen and controller with a PC running
> Windows games?

Yeah, but it's not pleasant. Not only is my gaming PC huge (but silken thanks to 
water cooling) but Windows and the normal UI is a bit too small to see clearly on 
the TV across the room. Steam has the "Big Picture" mode which is what the Steam 
machines uses, but I still think the Steam machines makes it a more seamless  
experience. 

-- 
Sandman

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#332416

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 21:38:02 +0000, Sandman wrote:

> In article <daeieaFelkuU1@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> > Sandman:
>> > I love to game, and gaming is the only reason to get a PC. Sure,
>> > the Steam Machines are more limited than a PC, but you get that sofa
>> > experience so I think I'll like it.
>> 
>> I'm not a pc gamer, I use the consoles.  Can you not do 'sofa
>> experience'  with a big screen and controller with a PC running Windows
>> games?
> 
> Yeah, but it's not pleasant. Not only is my gaming PC huge (but silken
> thanks to water cooling) but Windows and the normal UI is a bit too
> small to see clearly on the TV across the room. Steam has the "Big
> Picture" mode which is what the Steam machines uses, but I still think
> the Steam machines makes it a more seamless experience.

OK, thanks.

BTW my 'big screen' is 73" -- I can very well see that from the 
recliner! :)




-- 
Lloyd

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#332432

In article <daf8lnFkh0pU2@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> > > > Sandman:
> > > > I love to game, and gaming is the only reason to get
> > > > a PC. Sure, the Steam Machines are more limited than a PC, but
> > > > you get that sofa experience so I think I'll like it.
> > > 
> > > Lloyd Parsons:
> > > I'm not a pc gamer, I use the consoles.  Can you not do 'sofa
> > > experience'  with a big screen and controller with a PC running
> > > Windows games?
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > Yeah, but it's not pleasant. Not only is my gaming PC huge (but
> > silken thanks to water cooling) but Windows and the normal UI is a
> > bit too small to see clearly on the TV across the room. Steam has
> > the "Big Picture" mode which is what the Steam machines uses, but
> > I still think the Steam machines makes it a more seamless
> > experience.
> 
> OK, thanks.

> BTW my 'big screen' is 73" -- I can very well see that from the 
> recliner! :)

How far from the recliner is it?

-- 
Sandman

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#332440

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 23:11:25 +0000, Sandman wrote:

> In article <daf8lnFkh0pU2@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> 
>> > > > Sandman:
>> > > > I love to game, and gaming is the only reason to get a PC. Sure,
>> > > > the Steam Machines are more limited than a PC, but you get that
>> > > > sofa experience so I think I'll like it.
>> > > 
>> > > Lloyd Parsons:
>> > > I'm not a pc gamer, I use the consoles.  Can you not do 'sofa
>> > > experience'  with a big screen and controller with a PC running
>> > > Windows games?
>> > 
>> > Sandman:
>> > Yeah, but it's not pleasant. Not only is my gaming PC huge (but
>> > silken thanks to water cooling) but Windows and the normal UI is a
>> > bit too small to see clearly on the TV across the room. Steam has the
>> > "Big Picture" mode which is what the Steam machines uses, but I still
>> > think the Steam machines makes it a more seamless experience.
>> 
>> OK, thanks.
> 
>> BTW my 'big screen' is 73" -- I can very well see that from the
>> recliner! :)
> 
> How far from the recliner is it?

about 9 feet.




-- 
Lloyd

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#332504

In article <dafcurFljvbU2@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd Parsons wrote:

> > > > > > Sandman:
> > > > > > I love to game, and gaming is the only reason to
> > > > > > get a PC. Sure, the Steam Machines are more limited than a
> > > > > > PC, but you get that sofa experience so I think I'll like
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Lloyd Parsons:
> > > > > I'm not a pc gamer, I use the consoles.  Can
> > > > > you not do 'sofa experience'  with a big screen and
> > > > > controller with a PC running Windows games?
> > > > 
> > > > Sandman:
> > > > Yeah, but it's not pleasant. Not only is my gaming PC
> > > > huge (but silken thanks to water cooling) but Windows and the
> > > > normal UI is a bit too small to see clearly on the TV across
> > > > the room. Steam has the "Big Picture" mode which is what the
> > > > Steam machines uses, but I still think the Steam machines
> > > > makes it a more seamless experience.
> > > 
> > > Lloyd Parsons:
> > > OK, thanks.
> > 
> > > BTW my 'big screen' is 73" -- I can very well see that from the
> > > recliner! :)
> > 
> > Sandman:
> > How far from the recliner is it?
> 
> about 9 feet.

Then your angle of view is 33 degrees.

When at my gaming PC with a 27 inch screen, I sit at about 2 feet away, so my 
angle of view is 52 degrees, which is a substantial difference.

-- 
Sandman

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#332532

Sandman wrote:

> "Lloyd" wrote:
>>
>> > 
>> > > BTW my 'big screen' is 73" -- I can very well see that from the
>> > > recliner! :)
>> > 
>> > How far from the recliner is it?
>> 
>> about 9 feet.
>
> Then your angle of view is 33 degrees.
>
>When at my gaming PC with a 27 inch screen, I sit at about 2 feet away, so my 
>angle of view is 52 degrees, which is a substantial difference.

THX recommends the angle be no greater than 40 degrees, but I assume
that's for 1080P, and greater angles are acceptable for resolutions.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/hdtv-set-up/

Most people's setups fail, of course.

Certainly, 33 degrees is pretty good for video.  I sit about 9 feet
from a 65".

Computer/text usage presents a greater challenge.  I use a 55" TV as a
computer monitor, which is 5 feet from my eyes.  This is about as big
an angle as one would want.  I'm just out of range of being able to
see the pixels.

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#332534

chrisv wrote:

>THX recommends the angle be no greater than 40 degrees, but I assume
>that's for 1080P, and greater angles are acceptable for resolutions.

"for higher resolutions"

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#332535

chrisv wrote:

>Most people's setups fail, of course.

(Because the TV is undersized for the viewing distance.)

Now, don't get me started on 4K TV's, and what a waste they are, or
will be, for most people...   8)

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#332542

On 2015-11-11 8:37 AM, chrisv wrote:
> chrisv wrote:
> 
>> Most people's setups fail, of course.
> 
> (Because the TV is undersized for the viewing distance.)
> 
> Now, don't get me started on 4K TV's, and what a waste they are, or
> will be, for most people...   8)

Agreed. TV programming hasn't even reached 1080p yet, I can't imagine
how useless a 4k TV purchase would be in this day and age.


-- 
Slimer

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#332551

"Slimer" <.m@nsn.s> wrote in message news:n1vihj$q8o$7@dont-email.me...
> On 2015-11-11 8:37 AM, chrisv wrote:
>> chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> Most people's setups fail, of course.
>>
>> (Because the TV is undersized for the viewing distance.)
>>
>> Now, don't get me started on 4K TV's, and what a waste they are, or
>> will be, for most people...   8)
>
> Agreed. TV programming hasn't even reached 1080p yet, I can't imagine
> how useless a 4k TV purchase would be in this day and age.
>

Upscaling.

It's not true 4k but the electronics in the TV will synthesize a 4k video 
image from the input video. Most (all?) 4k television sets lets you turn 
this off and you can see a very noticeable difference. The better (read - 
more expensive) sets usually have better upscaling capabilities than the 
cheaper ones.

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#332562

On 2015-11-11 10:01 AM, Ezekiel wrote:
> "Slimer" <.m@nsn.s> wrote in message news:n1vihj$q8o$7@dont-email.me...
>> On 2015-11-11 8:37 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most people's setups fail, of course.
>>>
>>> (Because the TV is undersized for the viewing distance.)
>>>
>>> Now, don't get me started on 4K TV's, and what a waste they are, or
>>> will be, for most people...   8)
>>
>> Agreed. TV programming hasn't even reached 1080p yet, I can't imagine
>> how useless a 4k TV purchase would be in this day and age.
>>
> 
> Upscaling.
> 
> It's not true 4k but the electronics in the TV will synthesize a 4k video 
> image from the input video. Most (all?) 4k television sets lets you turn 
> this off and you can see a very noticeable difference. The better (read - 
> more expensive) sets usually have better upscaling capabilities than the 
> cheaper ones.

I'm not a big fan of upscaling. I've seen what upscaling to 1080p from a
480i DOES and I didn't find it all too appealing. I'll buy 4k once I
have 4k content. Ultimately, I'll buy a 4k monitor or TV when gaming
gets to the stage where such a thing is feasible at high framerates and
at a low cost. I'm thinking about 5 years from now.


-- 
Slimer

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#332695 — Re: I'm not a fan of 3D games, but I love my high_DPI, IPS 4K monitor.

On 11/11/15 17:32, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>
> I'm not a fan of 3D games, but I love my high_DPI, IPS 4K monitor.
>
> It's mounted on a monitor arm;
> when swung in place, it's about 12 inches from my face.
>
> The detail is incredible.
> 4K videos look good, fine details.

Did you see MS new HoloLens on their website?
Looks rather interesting.

-- 
My problem is that I don't have enough middle fingers.

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#332735 — Re: I don't want a hologram in my room.

On 11/12/15 12:10, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>
>> > 4K videos look good, fine details.
>>
>> Did you see MS new HoloLens on their website?
>> Looks rather interesting.
>
> Yes, but I don't want a hologram in my room.
>
> Two-Dimensional screens are more immersive
> than "augmented reality" holograms.

It seems to be better suited for testing out 3D design models.
Hard to tell if it will gain any traction or not.
Tho the gamers might like it.  Hard to tell.

-- 
My problem is that I don't have enough middle fingers.

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#332935

On 2015-11-11, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> chrisv wrote:
>
>>Most people's setups fail, of course.
>
> (Because the TV is undersized for the viewing distance.)
>
> Now, don't get me started on 4K TV's, and what a waste they are, or
> will be, for most people...   8)
>

   People are generally cheap bastards that won't put enough time or effort
into anything. So it should be little surprise that they aren't getting the
full potential out of their home viewing setup.

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#333199

JEDIDIAH wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> Now, don't get me started on 4K TV's, and what a waste they are, or
>> will be, for most people...   8)
>
>   People are generally cheap bastards that won't put enough time or effort
>into anything. So it should be little surprise that they aren't getting the
>full potential out of their home viewing setup.

At least modern TV's are better out of the box, and require less
adjustment.  In the old days, I remember being amazed at how badly
set-up people's TV's were.  Their "blacks" would be a light gray, and
I would think "How could you not notice that and take some action?"

-- 
"Having lots of options is actively _detrimental_ if the effect is to
force consumers to have to make lots of complex trade-offs.  Anything
a customer ends up with will feel like a compromise."  -  Comrad ZnU

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